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PatB



Posts : 352
Join date : 2010-09-25
Age : 53
Location : Turner, Maine

PostSubject: So cattle do it all   Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:00 pm

Since there is not a BS section on this site I posted the link here to the above article.

http://www.angus.org/pub/newsroom/releases/060413_SomeCattleDoItAll.aspx

Just for you mike. Razz Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: So cattle do it all   Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:18 pm

PatB wrote:
Since there is not a BS section on this site I posted the link here to the above article.

http://www.angus.org/pub/newsroom/releases/060413_SomeCattleDoItAll.aspx

Just for you mike. Razz Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

all cattle/cattle breeds do it all...just to varying degrees ...
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: So cattle do it all   Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:13 pm

some real data, just for you Pat ... Smile


All right gang, these are our entries to the TCSCF this year;

1) Image Maker/ Wulf's Ext 6106 son (first calf heifer)
2) Rito 6i6/ Image Maker (first calf heifer)
3) Emblazon/ OCC Focus (ET calf)
4) Executive 727/ White Oak Precise son
5) Great Plains son (16720048)/ GDAR SVF Traveler 234-d son
6) MJ Right Time 374 son (16476679)/ White Oak Precise son
7) 16720048/ 234-d son
Cool 16720048/ 1483 son

edited

Well, one calf in the pen made money..$8.42. That is one calf out of 149 head. I need a few days to digest this data. Average loss was $227 per head. Forgive me if I go and vomit for a while....
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EddieM



Posts : 648
Join date : 2010-09-24
Location : South Carolina

PostSubject: Re: So cattle do it all   Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:36 am

MKeeney wrote:
some real data, just for you Pat ... Smile


All right gang, these are our entries to the TCSCF this year;

1) Image Maker/ Wulf's Ext 6106 son (first calf heifer)
2) Rito 6i6/ Image Maker (first calf heifer)
3) Emblazon/ OCC Focus (ET calf)
4) Executive 727/ White Oak Precise son
5) Great Plains son (16720048)/ GDAR SVF Traveler 234-d son
6) MJ Right Time 374 son (16476679)/ White Oak Precise son
7) 16720048/ 234-d son
Cool 16720048/ 1483 son

edited

Well, one calf in the pen made money..$8.42. That is one calf out of 149 head. I need a few days to digest this data. Average loss was $227 per head. Forgive me if I go and vomit for a while....

What would be the cure to make more profit? I do not think that this proves these cattle to be terminal type. I do not think that this proves these cattle to be maternal. Maybe nothing got proven at a pretty good expense.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: So cattle do it all   Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:19 pm

Eddie,
I think it proves genetics can`t overcome market economics...
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PatB



Posts : 352
Join date : 2010-09-25
Age : 53
Location : Turner, Maine

PostSubject: Re: So cattle do it all   Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:17 pm

EddieM wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
some real data, just for you Pat ... Smile


All right gang, these are our entries to the TCSCF this year;

1) Image Maker/ Wulf's Ext 6106 son (first calf heifer)
2) Rito 6i6/ Image Maker (first calf heifer)
3) Emblazon/ OCC Focus (ET calf)
4) Executive 727/ White Oak Precise son
5) Great Plains son (16720048)/ GDAR SVF Traveler 234-d son
6) MJ Right Time 374 son (16476679)/ White Oak Precise son
7) 16720048/ 234-d son
Cool 16720048/ 1483 son

edited

Well, one calf in the pen made money..$8.42. That is one calf out of 149 head. I need a few days to digest this data. Average loss was $227 per head. Forgive me if I go and vomit for a while....

What would be the cure to make more profit? I do not think that this proves these cattle to be terminal type. I do not think that this proves these cattle to be maternal. Maybe nothing got proven at a pretty good expense.

All I see is partial pedigree of entry were is the in weight, days on feed, final weight, carcass weight, yield grade, percent carcass yield, age at in or slaughter and the dam side of pedigree.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: So cattle do it all   Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:22 pm

PatB wrote:
EddieM wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
some real data, just for you Pat ... Smile


All right gang, these are our entries to the TCSCF this year;

1) Image Maker/ Wulf's Ext 6106 son (first calf heifer)
2) Rito 6i6/ Image Maker (first calf heifer)
3) Emblazon/ OCC Focus (ET calf)
4) Executive 727/ White Oak Precise son
5) Great Plains son (16720048)/ GDAR SVF Traveler 234-d son
6) MJ Right Time 374 son (16476679)/ White Oak Precise son
7) 16720048/ 234-d son
Cool 16720048/ 1483 son

edited

Well, one calf in the pen made money..$8.42. That is one calf out of 149 head. I need a few days to digest this data. Average loss was $227 per head. Forgive me if I go and vomit for a while....

What would be the cure to make more profit? I do not think that this proves these cattle to be terminal type. I do not think that this proves these cattle to be maternal. Maybe nothing got proven at a pretty good expense.

All I see is partial pedigree of entry were is the in weight, days on feed, final weight, carcass weight, yield grade, percent carcass yield, age at in or slaughter and the dam side of pedigree.

all I see is the bottom line...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQwQvc-w_RM&list=PLDADFDAFD6C2DCB04

where is the consumer demand for higher quality beef when some 5 year old bulls are bringing with $15/cwt. of choice steers?
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LCP



Posts : 49
Join date : 2012-04-16
Location : north central SD

PostSubject: Re: So cattle do it all   Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:31 pm

MKeeney wrote:
PatB wrote:
EddieM wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
some real data, just for you Pat ... Smile


All right gang, these are our entries to the TCSCF this year;

1) Image Maker/ Wulf's Ext 6106 son (first calf heifer)
2) Rito 6i6/ Image Maker (first calf heifer)
3) Emblazon/ OCC Focus (ET calf)
4) Executive 727/ White Oak Precise son
5) Great Plains son (16720048)/ GDAR SVF Traveler 234-d son
6) MJ Right Time 374 son (16476679)/ White Oak Precise son
7) 16720048/ 234-d son
Cool 16720048/ 1483 son

edited

Well, one calf in the pen made money..$8.42. That is one calf out of 149 head. I need a few days to digest this data. Average loss was $227 per head. Forgive me if I go and vomit for a while....

What would be the cure to make more profit? I do not think that this proves these cattle to be terminal type. I do not think that this proves these cattle to be maternal. Maybe nothing got proven at a pretty good expense.

All I see is partial pedigree of entry were is the in weight, days on feed, final weight, carcass weight, yield grade, percent carcass yield, age at in or slaughter and the dam side of pedigree.

all I see is the bottom line...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQwQvc-w_RM&list=PLDADFDAFD6C2DCB04

where is the consumer demand for higher quality beef when some 5 year old bulls are bringing with $15/cwt. of choice steers?

I don't need DOF, pedigree, YG, QG, etc to tell you those cattle lost money...a $13/cwt drop in June live cattle since January made it pretty hard for any individual to turn a profit. I think you can lose money on good quality cattle just as easy as low quality cattle and vice versa. To me, it seems more important to use marketing tools such as futures and fwd contracting and programs such as ASV or NHTC to secure profits. Genetics don't always come through - at least the ones I've dealt with.

I skipped econ 101 as often as any other class, but it would seem that if more choice beef is available now than was five years ago, and Americans are spending less money due to economic conditions, that the premium for said choice beef would diminish relative to other sources of beef to put in our big mac's. I don't suppose the strengthening dollar (until recently) was helping exports much either.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: So cattle do it all   Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:24 am

LCP wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
PatB wrote:
EddieM wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
some real data, just for you Pat ... Smile


All right gang, these are our entries to the TCSCF this year;

1) Image Maker/ Wulf's Ext 6106 son (first calf heifer)
2) Rito 6i6/ Image Maker (first calf heifer)
3) Emblazon/ OCC Focus (ET calf)
4) Executive 727/ White Oak Precise son
5) Great Plains son (16720048)/ GDAR SVF Traveler 234-d son
6) MJ Right Time 374 son (16476679)/ White Oak Precise son
7) 16720048/ 234-d son
Cool 16720048/ 1483 son

edited

Well, one calf in the pen made money..$8.42. That is one calf out of 149 head. I need a few days to digest this data. Average loss was $227 per head. Forgive me if I go and vomit for a while....

What would be the cure to make more profit? I do not think that this proves these cattle to be terminal type. I do not think that this proves these cattle to be maternal. Maybe nothing got proven at a pretty good expense.

All I see is partial pedigree of entry were is the in weight, days on feed, final weight, carcass weight, yield grade, percent carcass yield, age at in or slaughter and the dam side of pedigree.

all I see is the bottom line...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQwQvc-w_RM&list=PLDADFDAFD6C2DCB04

where is the consumer demand for higher quality beef when some 5 year old bulls are bringing with $15/cwt. of choice steers?

I don't need DOF, pedigree, YG, QG, etc to tell you those cattle lost money...a $13/cwt drop in June live cattle since January made it pretty hard for any individual to turn a profit. I think you can lose money on good quality cattle just as easy as low quality cattle and vice versa. To me, it seems more important to use marketing tools such as futures and fwd contracting and programs such as ASV or NHTC to secure profits. Genetics don't always come through - at least the ones I've dealt with.

I skipped econ 101 as often as any other class, but it would seem that if more choice beef is available now than was five years ago, and Americans are spending less money due to economic conditions, that the premium for said choice beef would diminish relative to other sources of beef to put in our big mac's. I don't suppose the strengthening dollar (until recently) was helping exports much either.

Luke,
I keep wondering how the AAA $B index can be a positive number, when every pound of gain currently loses money?
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EddieM



Posts : 648
Join date : 2010-09-24
Location : South Carolina

PostSubject: Re: So cattle do it all   Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:42 am

LCP wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
PatB wrote:
EddieM wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
some real data, just for you Pat ... Smile


All right gang, these are our entries to the TCSCF this year;

1) Image Maker/ Wulf's Ext 6106 son (first calf heifer)
2) Rito 6i6/ Image Maker (first calf heifer)
3) Emblazon/ OCC Focus (ET calf)
4) Executive 727/ White Oak Precise son
5) Great Plains son (16720048)/ GDAR SVF Traveler 234-d son
6) MJ Right Time 374 son (16476679)/ White Oak Precise son
7) 16720048/ 234-d son
Cool 16720048/ 1483 son

edited

Well, one calf in the pen made money..$8.42. That is one calf out of 149 head. I need a few days to digest this data. Average loss was $227 per head. Forgive me if I go and vomit for a while....

What would be the cure to make more profit? I do not think that this proves these cattle to be terminal type. I do not think that this proves these cattle to be maternal. Maybe nothing got proven at a pretty good expense.

All I see is partial pedigree of entry were is the in weight, days on feed, final weight, carcass weight, yield grade, percent carcass yield, age at in or slaughter and the dam side of pedigree.

all I see is the bottom line...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQwQvc-w_RM&list=PLDADFDAFD6C2DCB04

where is the consumer demand for higher quality beef when some 5 year old bulls are bringing with $15/cwt. of choice steers?

I don't need DOF, pedigree, YG, QG, etc to tell you those cattle lost money...a $13/cwt drop in June live cattle since January made it pretty hard for any individual to turn a profit. I think you can lose money on good quality cattle just as easy as low quality cattle and vice versa. To me, it seems more important to use marketing tools such as futures and fwd contracting and programs such as ASV or NHTC to secure profits. Genetics don't always come through - at least the ones I've dealt with.

I skipped econ 101 as often as any other class, but it would seem that if more choice beef is available now than was five years ago, and Americans are spending less money due to economic conditions, that the premium for said choice beef would diminish relative to other sources of beef to put in our big mac's. I don't suppose the strengthening dollar (until recently) was helping exports much either.

His calves would have had to average a LW of over 1700 pounds to have broken even with another $13/cwt. It still does not provide any excitement or produce any economic interest. Do we need bigger Angus or do we need to think in terms of terminal crosses? Maybe we ought to cull harder, look at their feet more often, or discuss a lot of bulls in the USA or AU. That should solve the problems.
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PatB



Posts : 352
Join date : 2010-09-25
Age : 53
Location : Turner, Maine

PostSubject: Re: So cattle do it all   Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:19 am

It might be more profitable to move to niche marketing and quit feed grain and use frame 5 plus or minus 1 frame score animals. How about animals that are adapted to your feed source and management style. I believe a strong selection pressure needs to be applied to select animals that work under your management and resources. All problem (you define problems) animals need to be remove from the seedstock herd so the problems are not passed on to future generations of animals.
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larkota



Posts : 310
Join date : 2010-09-23
Age : 57
Location : Kimball South Dakota

PostSubject: Re: So cattle do it all   Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:39 am

PatB wrote:
It might be more profitable to move to niche marketing and quit feed grain and use frame 5 plus or minus 1 frame score animals. How about animals that are adapted to your feed source and management style. I believe a strong selection pressure needs to be applied to select animals that work under your management and resources. All problem (you define problems) animals need to be remove from the seedstock herd so the problems are not passed on to future generations of animals.

Pat is that kinda like you can't fix stupid....you just thin the herd?? or do we just find new problems??

Larkota thinking man is never happy....so he must measure.
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Tom D
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PostSubject: Re: So cattle do it all   Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:36 pm

I'm happy.
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LCP



Posts : 49
Join date : 2012-04-16
Location : north central SD

PostSubject: Re: So cattle do it all   Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:25 pm

PatB wrote:
It might be more profitable to move to niche marketing and quit feed grain and use frame 5 plus or minus 1 frame score animals. How about animals that are adapted to your feed source and management style. I believe a strong selection pressure needs to be applied to select animals that work under your management and resources. All problem (you define problems) animals need to be remove from the seedstock herd so the problems are not passed on to future generations of animals.

I don't know what the answer is. Yes it might be more profitable to do niche marketing, but not everyone can do it - due to location, resources, or skill level. Besides, even if everyone direct-marketed or whatever, then that becomes the new commodity.
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RobertMac



Posts : 262
Join date : 2010-09-28
Location : Mississippi, USA

PostSubject: Re: So cattle do it all   Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:17 pm

PatB wrote:
It might be more profitable to move to niche marketing and quit feed grain and use frame 5 plus or minus 1 frame score animals. How about animals that are adapted to your feed source and management style. I believe a strong selection pressure needs to be applied to select animals that work under your management and resources. All problem (you define problems) animals need to be remove from the seedstock herd so the problems are not passed on to future generations of animals.
Niche marketing works, but if everyone did it, it wouldn't be "niche".

The mainstream cattle industry was established to take advantage of cheap grain...grain is no longer cheap.

I don't get the frame score debate. I believe E/M (environment/management) will define your functional efficient cow and that will be your frame score.

How is "strong selection pressure" defined?
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: So cattle do it all   Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:02 pm

RobertMac wrote:
PatB wrote:
It might be more profitable to move to niche marketing and quit feed grain and use frame 5 plus or minus 1 frame score animals. How about animals that are adapted to your feed source and management style. I believe a strong selection pressure needs to be applied to select animals that work under your management and resources. All problem (you define problems) animals need to be remove from the seedstock herd so the problems are not passed on to future generations of animals.
Niche marketing works, but if everyone did it, it wouldn't be "niche".

The mainstream cattle industry was established to take advantage of cheap grain...grain is no longer cheap.

I don't get the frame score debate. I believe E/M (environment/management) will define your functional efficient cow and that will be your frame score.

How is "strong selection pressure" defined?

it isn`t a debate issue; it`s the primary farao selling point...form before function
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Dylan Biggs



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Join date : 2011-03-07

PostSubject: Re: So cattle do it all   Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:50 pm

MKeeney wrote:
Eddie,
I think it proves genetics can`t overcome market economics...

Damn Mike you went and burst my bubble!! Crying or Very sad
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: So cattle do it all   Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:25 pm

Dylan Biggs wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
Eddie,
I think it proves genetics can`t overcome market economics...

Damn Mike you went and burst my bubble!! Crying or Very sad

get in the registered business Dylan Smile ...it`s totally disconnected from commercial markets...
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: So cattle do it all   Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:26 pm


How is "strong selection pressure" defined?


most often as BS Smile
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: So cattle do it all   Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:31 pm

I believe E/M (environment/management) will define your functional efficient cow and that will be your frame score.

I think E/M can only cull ; it can`t breed...Eventually a breeder must choose a type; if that type gets rejected more often than an occasional slap on the wrist; it might be the wrong type Rolling Eyes
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RobertMac



Posts : 262
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PostSubject: Re: So cattle do it all   Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:17 am

So???, select a type and modify the M (+$$$$)until the type works acceptably?



For me, "strong selection pressure" defined...all E and very little to no M.

I think western range cattle are so good because there isn't the opportunity to apply a lot of M.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: So cattle do it all   Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:26 am

RobertMac wrote:
So???, select a type and modify the M (+$$$$)until the type works acceptably?



For me, "strong selection pressure" defined...all E and very little to no M.

I think western range cattle are so good because there isn't the opportunity to apply a lot of M.
select a type and modify the M (+$$$$)until the type works acceptably?

I`M sure this happens regularly to excess in the registered business...but don`t we all commercially spend money to make money?
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Bob H



Posts : 292
Join date : 2011-02-17
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PostSubject: Re: So cattle do it all   Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:54 pm


If we choose from a population not an idividiual that is fertile of the same type as our older cows using multiple sires I believe that form will follow function and the world can go around and around.
A preg test over time will allow you move forward to produce beef. That is all we are doing. If you do not have enough money identify what cross will produce more money and breed the percentage of your population for this goal. Another thought is that economies of scale can overcome some other problems. Just some thoughts from the deserts of the North West were until last week it had forgot to rain since Sept of 12. Bob H
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Bob H



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PostSubject: Re: So cattle do it all   Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:01 pm

Western range cattle are as good as the maternal line they are out of. You can supplement any cattle into breeding as long as you have money. You can only breed repoduction and maternal.

Breeding cattle that is sociallistic is the same as Margret Thatcher stated about Socialism it is a wonderful form of Government until you run out of the other guys money::: Bob H
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Farmerkuk



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PostSubject: Re: So cattle do it all   Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:47 pm

sure would be interested in getting "that" type of cow Bob. Being able to buy the genetics is the question?
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