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 Identity crisis.....

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Grassfarmer



Posts : 850
Join date : 2010-09-27
Location : Belmont, Manitoba, Canada

PostSubject: Identity crisis.....   Sat May 11, 2013 2:26 pm

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Kent Powell



Posts : 606
Join date : 2010-09-24
Location : SW Kansas

PostSubject: Re: Identity crisis.....   Sat May 11, 2013 4:59 pm

Some people ask why, some ask why not, most say HUH?
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Grassfarmer



Posts : 850
Join date : 2010-09-27
Location : Belmont, Manitoba, Canada

PostSubject: Re: Identity crisis.....   Sun May 12, 2013 2:19 pm

I just don't understand the thinking. Start with Charolais with Charolais characteristics, mongrelize them with Angus presumably to qualify the offspring in an Angus marketing program. Once they are unrecognizable as Charolais cross them with a presumably equally mongrelized Simmental then try to sell the offspring as a bull. A bull that looks like Angus but the owner thinks birth weight might be an issue. If they had created something that looked like a Charolais but calved like an Angus is supposed to I could see the point.
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Kent Powell



Posts : 606
Join date : 2010-09-24
Location : SW Kansas

PostSubject: Re: Identity crisis.....   Sun May 12, 2013 5:07 pm

You have probably put more thought into it than the seller.

http://www.laueranch.com/herdsires.html

http://char-maineranching.com/Blacks.html

http://burtcattlecompany.com/

I guess I don't see changing color as big a deal as changing a breed into something completely different over and over while still promoting a breed as some kind of refuge of superiority and consistency.

For Charolais Characteristics, I prefer this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akQLl70rVQw
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Grassfarmer



Posts : 850
Join date : 2010-09-27
Location : Belmont, Manitoba, Canada

PostSubject: Re: Identity crisis.....   Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:57 pm

Show report from Scotland:
"An almost completely dry day saw a much increased turnout of exhibitors and spectators at Alyth Show, where a massive
 Aberdeen Angus heifer with calf at foot shown by Willie McLaren, Netherton, Blackford, was crowned overall champion of champions."

I thought it bad enough when guys were calling Pinebank bulls massive at the same time as stressing their moderate frame scores. Who the heck wants a massive first calf heifer? What an embarrassment from the country that developed the Angus, Beef Shorthorn, Galloway, Highland and Luing breeds. 
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robert



Posts : 52
Join date : 2010-11-17
Age : 49
Location : oblivion, ny

PostSubject: Re: Identity crisis.....   Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:43 pm

Grassfarmer wrote:
Show report from Scotland:
"An almost completely dry day saw a much increased turnout of exhibitors and spectators at Alyth Show, where a massive
 Aberdeen Angus heifer with calf at foot shown by Willie McLaren, Netherton, Blackford, was crowned overall champion of champions."

I thought it bad enough when guys were calling Pinebank bulls massive at the same time as stressing their moderate frame scores. Who the heck wants a massive first calf heifer? What an embarrassment from the country that developed the Angus, Beef Shorthorn, Galloway, Highland and Luing breeds. 

as my former local show (my dad was show chair for a couple of years, perhaps drinking club would be a better description, Belhaven Best at the Lands of Loyal with a roaring fire in the middle of July) the most remarkable thing was the dry day Smile
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Grassfarmer



Posts : 850
Join date : 2010-09-27
Location : Belmont, Manitoba, Canada

PostSubject: Re: Identity crisis.....   Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:29 pm

Belhaven Best - a man with good taste Very Happy I have some in the fridge procured from Hilly's neighbourhood ale dispensary. Sadly its a "best before 2011" batch and I've told them I'm not buying any more until they get new stock. At $4 a can its a pricey reminder of home - especially when its stale Crying or Very sad

Was taking a look at Netherton's females - I can believe they would have massive heifers. I found the policy of selling all females at 6 years old in a "matrons" sale humorous. 

http://www.nethertonangus.co.uk/html/females.html

She sure looks like a massive heifer. Is massive a terminal or maternal trait?
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Grassfarmer



Posts : 850
Join date : 2010-09-27
Location : Belmont, Manitoba, Canada

PostSubject: Re: Identity crisis.....   Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:07 am

I thought the Galloway breed had decided to do the honest thing and stick with their breed characteristics.

http://www.thescottishfarmer.co.uk/business-sales/trendsprices/the-future-is-traditional.21463730

But realised when it came to the sale weight of fat cattle that it's just another bullshit marketing promotion. If traditional Galloways grass-fed can hit 500kgs at 2 years old they are doing well. These guys claiming they can be 730kgs (1600lbs) at 2 years off grass is fantasy. I've never seen the Galloway that had enough growth to do that even if you gave it the full feed that they use on the "untraditional" exotic breeds they are trying to claim superiority over.
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robert



Posts : 52
Join date : 2010-11-17
Age : 49
Location : oblivion, ny

PostSubject: Re: Identity crisis.....   Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:39 pm

maybe they aren't as traditional as they used to be Very Happy  Kinda like 'modern' Angus could be painted white and called 'Charolais'!
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OAK LANE FARM



Posts : 95
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PostSubject: Re: Identity crisis.....   Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:43 am

Do you guys from Scotland have any clue how they gravitated toward such extremes or does it just happen because without any rhyme or reason like a lot of things here?
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Grassfarmer



Posts : 850
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PostSubject: Re: Identity crisis.....   Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:21 am

Following fads and fashions? but why? my guess is because in the conventional marketing model you need the most extreme/different/breed changing to get the highest price. Goes round in a circle from biggest to smallest and back again, tallest to shortest etc etc.
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robert



Posts : 52
Join date : 2010-11-17
Age : 49
Location : oblivion, ny

PostSubject: Re: Identity crisis.....   Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:34 pm

OAK LANE FARM wrote:
Do you guys from Scotland have any clue how they gravitated toward such  extremes or does it just happen because without any rhyme or reason like a lot of things here?

The size kick started in the early 70's and never stopped with the native breeds that genetically were small anyway after the destructive breeding practices of the 1950's and 60's left entire breeds with nowhere to go to reclaim size and growth other than North America (namely Canada). Just like the USA the Continental (Exotic in US parlance) breeds came into the market and injected size, growth and muscle. A European grading system that rewards only muscle and minimal fat assisted. Unlike North America though the UK did not abandon the foreign breeds after calving season mayhem ensued, oh no, they embraced it, bought elaborate calving jacks and managed the cattle even more intensively. Many still won't calve heifers at 2yrs old as they are 'too small' nevermind that the sire breeds are just too damn heavy and hard calving, and unfortunately that includes Angus anymore. Add in a subsidy system that affords cows being kept regardless of whether they have a calf or not, or calve every 18 months or so. And the demand for yet more size, and more muscle, and faster growth and so on. Hard to find a herd with good udders and teats now, Limo type dominates. I find it a very sad state of affairs and am glad to be shot of it.........
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Grassfarmer



Posts : 850
Join date : 2010-09-27
Location : Belmont, Manitoba, Canada

PostSubject: Re: Identity crisis.....   Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:56 pm

robert wrote:
I find it a very sad state of affairs and am glad to be shot of it.........
Hear, Hear !!!
....But is it really that much better in N. America?
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robert



Posts : 52
Join date : 2010-11-17
Age : 49
Location : oblivion, ny

PostSubject: Re: Identity crisis.....   Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:01 pm

Grassfarmer wrote:
robert wrote:
I find it a very sad state of affairs and am glad to be shot of it.........
Hear, Hear !!!
....But is it really that much better in N. America?

It is for me, I can breed the type and kind of cattle that work for me and my customers without the game playing that occurs in the small market in the UK, or here for that matter.
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Grassfarmer



Posts : 850
Join date : 2010-09-27
Location : Belmont, Manitoba, Canada

PostSubject: Re: Identity crisis.....   Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:13 pm

Another exhibit from the show ring in England - maybe it was the "Freak Show"?



Belgian Blue (or British Blue as they are now called) bulls. Long way from the functionality of DV's "4 legs and a stick" model.

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