Keeney`s Corner

A current and reflective discussion of cattle breeding from outside the registered mainstream
 
HomeUsergroupsRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 australian cutting edge genetic webinars

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
PatB



Posts : 455
Join date : 2010-09-25
Age : 53
Location : Turner, Maine

PostSubject: australian cutting edge genetic webinars   Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:10 pm

Link to australian genetic webinars

http://sbts.une.edu.au/Webinars/webinars.html

Back to top Go down
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4624
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: australian cutting edge genetic webinars   Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:36 am

good find Pat...

let`s start here for discussion...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_LxxhRSM4k&feature=plcp

so, is this saying those of us breeding maternal/paternal are on the wrong path?
Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4624
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: australian cutting edge genetic webinars   Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:06 pm

troy marshall writings fits in nicely here...mk

This bull sale season has seen the highest prices ever paid for top-end bulls. It’s amazing to see commercial producers paying $10,000 and more for top-end commercial bulls. The strength of the top end of these bulls though is reflective of a changing marketplace.

Few in the past would have tried to justify a $5,000 premium for an above-average bull over an average bull, but it can happen fairly rapidly in today’s market. After all, a calving-ease bull that is used for four years and produces one more live calf per year can conservatively create $3,000 or more in value. Throw in an additional 20 lbs. of yearling weight on 100 calves and that adds another $3,000. Feed the cattle out and get a slight increase in carcass weight, percent Choice, and feed efficiency, and the numbers can quickly add up to another $5,000.

Factor in all the interactions that are influenced by superior genetics from better daughters, to shorter calving intervals, to more consistency, uniformity, more longevity and longer productive lives, and the value increase seems almost incalculable. Those numbers don’t even calculate price advantages associated with better genetics.

It’s true that the system doesn’t discount poor genetics enough, or reward superior genetics enough, but even in today’s tight supply situation, we’re seeing price differentials grow. As one producer remarked, “My cattle used to add $30/head in value and I got paid $15/head more. Today those cattle are adding $180 in value, and I’m being paid $50/head for that value. Are we gaining ground or losing ground?”

One thing that is for certain is that producers understand the value differences that are associated with superior genetics. Thus, they’re looking to position their operation for what promises to be a very lucrative time for the industry, and they are investing heavily in securing that future. Reading the sale averages is somewhat misleading, as prices for bulls are up on average, but above breed average bulls are up significantly, while average to below breed average bulls are actually down.

I`d give a lot for a bull that sired calves whose extra weight had no feed cost...are people gullible enough to take this stuff seriously...mk







Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
Grassfarmer



Posts : 850
Join date : 2010-09-27
Location : Belmont, Manitoba, Canada

PostSubject: Re: australian cutting edge genetic webinars   Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:00 pm

The way it is written is very subtly selling the illusion that you can "have it all" by spending these big dollars. Notice how the calving ease bull can create $3000 of value which is followed by the additional yearling weight of 20lbs, followed by the higher grades and feed efficiency. Wouldn't it be more truthful to suggest that the $3000 gained by the calving ease bull might be lost in yearling weight for example?
He tells you to "Factor in all the interactions that are influenced by superior genetics" and then goes on to ignore the interactions between the different traits by suggesting you can just stack all the positive ones on top of each other and buy it all in one expensive bull package. Very mainstream thinking.
Back to top Go down
http://www.luingcattle.com
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4624
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: australian cutting edge genetic webinars   Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:08 am

Grassfarmer wrote:
The way it is written is very subtly selling the illusion that you can "have it all" by spending these big dollars. Notice how the calving ease bull can create $3000 of value which is followed by the additional yearling weight of 20lbs, followed by the higher grades and feed efficiency. Wouldn't it be more truthful to suggest that the $3000 gained by the calving ease bull might be lost in yearling weight for example?
He tells you to "Factor in all the interactions that are influenced by superior genetics" and then goes on to ignore the interactions between the different traits by suggesting you can just stack all the positive ones on top of each other and buy it all in one expensive bull package. Very mainstream thinking.

"thinking" is being very kind Smile
Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
PatB



Posts : 455
Join date : 2010-09-25
Age : 53
Location : Turner, Maine

PostSubject: Re: australian cutting edge genetic webinars   Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:16 am

Some of you might be interested in this article

USING DNA TO DETERMINE PERFORMANCE AND ECONOMICS OF COMMERCIAL HERD BULLS IN MULTISIRE NATURAL SERVICE BREEDING GROUPS1

http://www.appliedreprostrategies.com/pdfs/2012ARSBC_12VanEenennaamProceedings4color.pdf

I am not sure if this is the right article but Dr Van Eenennaam has a number of artilces and a few videos on the research that is being conducted at UC Davis.

added link below

http://www.cattlenetwork.com/cattle-resources/dna-profiling/Importance-of-genetic-management-in-multi-sire-pastures-176269371.html
Back to top Go down
EddieM



Posts : 895
Join date : 2010-09-24
Location : South Carolina

PostSubject: Re: australian cutting edge genetic webinars   Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:30 am

Pat, We'll have to burn you at the Advantage Cattle T-Post for providing such heresy. How can you promote the negativity of MM, CW and $B. If you run with this silliness of +$E and +SC and kick against the goads of higher performance you will only be breeding average cattle for all of the world and those in Iowa to see as you enjoy checking your checking account statements. Don't let profit or economics blind your quest for great cattle and greater bulls.
Back to top Go down
PatB



Posts : 455
Join date : 2010-09-25
Age : 53
Location : Turner, Maine

PostSubject: Re: australian cutting edge genetic webinars   Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:10 am

EddieM wrote:
Pat, We'll have to burn you at the Advantage Cattle T-Post for providing such heresy. How can you promote the negativity of MM, CW and $B. If you run with this silliness of +$E and +SC and kick against the goads of higher performance you will only be breeding average cattle for all of the world and those in Iowa to see as you enjoy checking your checking account statements. Don't let profit or economics blind your quest for great cattle and greater bulls.

The only cattle herds that I worry about are mine and those that buy bulls from me. I also need to keep my heavy feeder buyer happy as he is key to my financial success as long as he keeps paying above local market prices. I will spend a little extra money on DNA testing to get the information I want.
Back to top Go down
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4624
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: australian cutting edge genetic webinars   Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:22 am

MKeeney wrote:
troy marshall writings fits in nicely here...mk

This bull sale season has seen the highest prices ever paid for top-end bulls. It’s amazing to see commercial producers paying $10,000 and more for top-end commercial bulls. The strength of the top end of these bulls though is reflective of a changing marketplace.

Few in the past would have tried to justify a $5,000 premium for an above-average bull over an average bull, but it can happen fairly rapidly in today’s market. After all, a calving-ease bull that is used for four years and produces one more live calf per year can conservatively create $3,000 or more in value. Throw in an additional 20 lbs. of yearling weight on 100 calves and that adds another $3,000. Feed the cattle out and get a slight increase in carcass weight, percent Choice, and feed efficiency, and the numbers can quickly add up to another $5,000.

Factor in all the interactions that are influenced by superior genetics from better daughters, to shorter calving intervals, to more consistency, uniformity, more longevity and longer productive lives, and the value increase seems almost incalculable. Those numbers don’t even calculate price advantages associated with better genetics.

It’s true that the system doesn’t discount poor genetics enough, or reward superior genetics enough, but even in today’s tight supply situation, we’re seeing price differentials grow. As one producer remarked, “My cattle used to add $30/head in value and I got paid $15/head more. Today those cattle are adding $180 in value, and I’m being paid $50/head for that value. Are we gaining ground or losing ground?”

One thing that is for certain is that producers understand the value differences that are associated with superior genetics. Thus, they’re looking to position their operation for what promises to be a very lucrative time for the industry, and they are investing heavily in securing that future. Reading the sale averages is somewhat misleading, as prices for bulls are up on average, but above breed average bulls are up significantly, while average to below breed average bulls are actually down.

I`d give a lot for a bull that sired calves whose extra weight had no feed cost...are people gullible enough to take this stuff seriously...mk








a random sale report...
if the bulls are worth 4200, why are the heifers only worth 1025?

74 18 month old Bulls $ 4,230
39 Commercial Replacement Heifers $1,025
Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
OAK LANE FARM



Posts : 95
Join date : 2010-09-25

PostSubject: Re: australian cutting edge genetic webinars   Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:32 am

MKeeney wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
troy marshall writings fits in nicely here...mk

This bull sale season has seen the highest prices ever paid for top-end bulls. It’s amazing to see commercial producers paying $10,000 and more for top-end commercial bulls. The strength of the top end of these bulls though is reflective of a changing marketplace.

Few in the past would have tried to justify a $5,000 premium for an above-average bull over an average bull, but it can happen fairly rapidly in today’s market. After all, a calving-ease bull that is used for four years and produces one more live calf per year can conservatively create $3,000 or more in value. Throw in an additional 20 lbs. of yearling weight on 100 calves and that adds another $3,000. Feed the cattle out and get a slight increase in carcass weight, percent Choice, and feed efficiency, and the numbers can quickly add up to another $5,000.

Factor in all the interactions that are influenced by superior genetics from better daughters, to shorter calving intervals, to more consistency, uniformity, more longevity and longer productive lives, and the value increase seems almost incalculable. Those numbers don’t even calculate price advantages associated with better genetics.

It’s true that the system doesn’t discount poor genetics enough, or reward superior genetics enough, but even in today’s tight supply situation, we’re seeing price differentials grow. As one producer remarked, “My cattle used to add $30/head in value and I got paid $15/head more. Today those cattle are adding $180 in value, and I’m being paid $50/head for that value. Are we gaining ground or losing ground?”

One thing that is for certain is that producers understand the value differences that are associated with superior genetics. Thus, they’re looking to position their operation for what promises to be a very lucrative time for the industry, and they are investing heavily in securing that future. Reading the sale averages is somewhat misleading, as prices for bulls are up on average, but above breed average bulls are up significantly, while average to below breed average bulls are actually down.

I`d give a lot for a bull that sired calves whose extra weight had no feed cost...are people gullible enough to take this stuff seriously...mk








a random sale report...
if the bulls are worth 4200, why are the heifers only worth 1025?

74 18 month old Bulls $ 4,230
39 Commercial Replacement Heifers $1,025
The heifers were from cows that were bought for recips and not from Fairview genetics-they were Diamond D and Red Angus genetics.
Back to top Go down
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4624
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: australian cutting edge genetic webinars   Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:39 am


121 Total Registered Bulls

$8,349.00

25 Commercial Bred Heifers (head)

$1,700.00

the point that either does not exist, or I`m failing to make, is why don`t these $10,000 bulls create females of greater value?
Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
Grassfarmer



Posts : 850
Join date : 2010-09-27
Location : Belmont, Manitoba, Canada

PostSubject: Re: australian cutting edge genetic webinars   Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:45 am

Same the world over Mike. I was dismayed to read the annual journal of our breed from Scotland reporting the Annual sale of their breed:
28 bulls averaged $10,300 - 180 open 2 year old heifers $1788

The "cow breed" as it was known has become the "bull breed" as they have come full circle from their start when it was decreed that this was to be a breed like no other "free from the fads and fashions" of the purebred industry. Now they are in the big time "registered rarity" business.
It made an uncomfortable fit for my "Why change?" article where I expounded some genetic truths we discuss on KC and questioned why bulls should be selected for beef (Limo) phenotype rather than as propagators of their maternal ancestry Smile
Back to top Go down
http://www.luingcattle.com
EddieM



Posts : 895
Join date : 2010-09-24
Location : South Carolina

PostSubject: Re: australian cutting edge genetic webinars   Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:08 am

MKeeney wrote:

121 Total Registered Bulls

$8,349.00

25 Commercial Bred Heifers (head)

$1,700.00

the point that either does not exist, or I`m failing to make, is why don`t these $10,000 bulls create females of greater value?

Why, everybody knows that buying an overfed, unproven bull is much more exciting than buying an overfed, unproven heifer. It's show-biz, excitement, the chance to own a winner. Nothing about cattle, period. After you finally get the bull to produce semen, if he does, and baby him along on his bad leg(s) or some other unspoken fault, then you have a year or two to promote and sell calves of a high dollar bull before the scheme crashes and the truth is that he did not live up to the paid price. Do this for 3 cycles and your 7 years are up as an average registered Angus breeder.
Back to top Go down
Keith Perli



Posts : 0
Join date : 2013-02-08

PostSubject: Re: australian cutting edge genetic webinars   Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:44 am

EddieM wrote:
MKeeney wrote:

121 Total Registered Bulls

$8,349.00

25 Commercial Bred Heifers (head)

$1,700.00

the point that either does not exist, or I`m failing to make, is why don`t these $10,000 bulls create females of greater value?

Why, everybody knows that buying an overfed, unproven bull is much more exciting than buying an overfed, unproven heifer. It's show-biz, excitement, the chance to own a winner. Nothing about cattle, period. After you finally get the bull to produce semen, if he does, and baby him along on his bad leg(s) or some other unspoken fault, then you have a year or two to promote and sell calves of a high dollar bull before the scheme crashes and the truth is that he did not live up to the paid price. Do this for 3 cycles and your 7 years are up as an average registered Angus breeder.
Wouldnt you rather make your own over conditioned too big of heifers out of breed leading over priced bulls. Keith
Back to top Go down
PatB



Posts : 455
Join date : 2010-09-25
Age : 53
Location : Turner, Maine

PostSubject: Re: australian cutting edge genetic webinars   Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:24 am

We are assuming the overfed bulls are capable of breeding cows or producing quality semen that can freeze for AI purposes. UC Davis has made some interesting observations concerning value of a bull to commercial producers.
Back to top Go down
EddieM



Posts : 895
Join date : 2010-09-24
Location : South Carolina

PostSubject: Re: australian cutting edge genetic webinars   Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:35 am

Keith Perli wrote:
EddieM wrote:
MKeeney wrote:

121 Total Registered Bulls

$8,349.00

25 Commercial Bred Heifers (head)

$1,700.00

the point that either does not exist, or I`m failing to make, is why don`t these $10,000 bulls create females of greater value?

Why, everybody knows that buying an overfed, unproven bull is much more exciting than buying an overfed, unproven heifer. It's show-biz, excitement, the chance to own a winner. Nothing about cattle, period. After you finally get the bull to produce semen, if he does, and baby him along on his bad leg(s) or some other unspoken fault, then you have a year or two to promote and sell calves of a high dollar bull before the scheme crashes and the truth is that he did not live up to the paid price. Do this for 3 cycles and your 7 years are up as an average registered Angus breeder.
Wouldnt you rather make your own over conditioned too big of heifers out of breed leading over priced bulls. Keith

Can't do it Keith, we raise them ROUGH! We've exceeded our 7 years, I avoid excitement and multicolor printing. I'm like Pat and tend to my own business:
Quote :
The only cattle herds that I worry about are mine and those that buy bulls from me .....
Back to top Go down
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4624
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: australian cutting edge genetic webinars   Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:23 pm

who pays the luxury tax on these bulls ABS buys? I think it is time for AAA to move to a flat tax for transfers...if I have to pay $10 for a $1000 heifer { 1%} , I think the rich should be taxed at the same rate...$125,000 bull...$1250 to transfer...fair is fair Wink Wink
Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4624
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: australian cutting edge genetic webinars   Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:27 pm

MKeeney wrote:
good find Pat...

let`s start here for discussion...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_LxxhRSM4k&feature=plcp

so, is this saying those of us breeding maternal/paternal are on the wrong path?

I want to know how this research validates the recommendation to not use bulls from 2/3 yrs that did not breed back to improve fertility...??? or maybe i have not read or listened close enough...
Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
OAK LANE FARM



Posts : 95
Join date : 2010-09-25

PostSubject: Re: australian cutting edge genetic webinars   Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:13 pm

MKeeney wrote:
who pays the luxury tax on these bulls ABS buys? I think it is time for AAA to move to a flat tax for transfers...if I have to pay $10 for a $1000 heifer { 1%} , I think the rich should be taxed at the same rate...$125,000 bull...$1250 to transfer...fair is fair Wink Wink
Brilliant
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: australian cutting edge genetic webinars   

Back to top Go down
 
australian cutting edge genetic webinars
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» THE CUTTING EDGE ~ Steve Quayle: Splitting the Darkness From Light [mp3 is up]
» ADERMATOGLYPHIA - Inborn missing fingerprints is caused by a genetic defect!
» EX BRITISH SERVICEMEN JOINING AUSTRALIAN POLICE FORCES
» I sometimes get dreams about cutting myself.
» Giving birth\\cutting the umbilical cord.

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Keeney`s Corner :: Breeding Philosophies :: Breeding Philosophies-
Jump to: