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 Anik Alfalfa?

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PatB



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PostSubject: Anik Alfalfa?   Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:08 pm

Has anyone tried this northern yellow flowered alfalfa? Is there a source besides spirit view ranch?
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: Anik Alfalfa?   Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:02 pm

Thats the only supplier I know and I'm not even sure if he has it. Will check into it.
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Tom D
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PostSubject: Re: Anik Alfalfa?   Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:43 pm

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Tom D
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PostSubject: Re: Anik Alfalfa?   Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:51 pm

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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: Anik Alfalfa?   Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:08 pm

Tom D wrote:
http://pubs.aic.ca/doi/pdf/10.4141/cjps76-031

Interesting for me to see the effect of latitude with regard to the continental climate of N. America. Fort Vermilion is at 57 degrees latitude, I'm at 52.5 degrees here but where I grew up in the south of Scotland at 55 degrees - we could grow grass year round and winterkill of just about any grass species was a non-issue.
Tens of thousands of acres being cleared of bush currently up in that Fort Vermilion/La Crete area - the new northern frontier of agriculture in Alberta to grow grain and canola. High quality, level, stone free soils but 40 miles from permafrost - yikes affraid
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PatB



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PostSubject: Re: Anik Alfalfa?   Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:54 am

Climate change at work. The world weather pattern is constantly changeing and has since the dawn of time.
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: Anik Alfalfa?   Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:05 pm

Nothing to do with climate change - more to do with man thinking he can outsmart nature by using some technology and a lot of fossil fuel.
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PostSubject: Re: Anik Alfalfa?   Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:24 pm

Grassfarmer wrote:
Nothing to do with climate change - more to do with man thinking he can outsmart nature by using some technology and a lot of fossil fuel.

cheers cheers
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Kent Powell



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PostSubject: Re: Anik Alfalfa?   Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:37 am

I planted test plots of quite a few samples of yellow alfalfa from all over the world in a 50 + variety plot. I couldn't keep it going. It was the beginning of this dry cycle and the rabbits destroyed it. While they were hard on the common alfalfa control too, it survived a couple years. Our most promising legumes, other than sweetclover, are Cicer Milkvetch, Crownvetch, Illinois Bundleflower, Roundhead Lespedeza, and Birdsfoot. All of which have now lasted 10-25 years and were spreading before our recent conditions. We spread it to new areas by letting the seed mature, grazing it, then turning the cattle where we want it to grow.
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PatB



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PostSubject: Re: Anik Alfalfa?   Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:22 am

Kent Powell wrote:
I planted test plots of quite a few samples of yellow alfalfa from all over the world in a 50 + variety plot. I couldn't keep it going. It was the beginning of this dry cycle and the rabbits destroyed it. While they were hard on the common alfalfa control too, it survived a couple years. Our most promising legumes, other than sweetclover, are Cicer Milkvetch, Crownvetch, Illinois Bundleflower, Roundhead Lespedeza, and Birdsfoot. All of which have now lasted 10-25 years and were spreading before our recent conditions. We spread it to new areas by letting the seed mature, grazing it, then turning the cattle where we want it to grow.

Kent where did you get the seed for test plots?
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: Anik Alfalfa?   Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:18 am

That's interesting Kent although we don't have rabbits - the coyotes ate them all. Was taking to another guy who winter grazes banked pasture about the problems he has with deer coming in and eating the alfalfa and trampling the snow down in the process so the cows can't access the grass. I was telling him they don't bother mine that has cicer milkvetch and alsike clover for legumes instead of alfalfa. A neighbour has an alfalfa /red clover stand which the wildlife are just crazy on this winter - I've seen 8 moose and 20 deer grazing on the quarter at once and they aren't bothering a pile of hay bales in the corner of the field. I suspect its the seed heads on the clover they are going after. Maybe another factor of winter grazing for me to think about.
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Kent Powell



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PostSubject: Re: Anik Alfalfa?   Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:41 pm

The Givernment, of coarse. I not only play a self credentialed research scientist on the internet, I play one in real life.


PatB wrote:
Kent Powell wrote:
I planted test plots of quite a few samples of yellow alfalfa from all over the world in a 50 + variety plot. I couldn't keep it going. It was the beginning of this dry cycle and the rabbits destroyed it. While they were hard on the common alfalfa control too, it survived a couple years. Our most promising legumes, other than sweetclover, are Cicer Milkvetch, Crownvetch, Illinois Bundleflower, Roundhead Lespedeza, and Birdsfoot. All of which have now lasted 10-25 years and were spreading before our recent conditions. We spread it to new areas by letting the seed mature, grazing it, then turning the cattle where we want it to grow.

Kent where did you get the seed for test plots?
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PatB



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PostSubject: Re: Anik Alfalfa?   Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:15 pm

Kent Powell wrote:
The Givernment, of coarse. I not only play a self credentialed research scientist on the internet, I play one in real life.


PatB wrote:
Kent Powell wrote:
I planted test plots of quite a few samples of yellow alfalfa from all over the world in a 50 + variety plot. I couldn't keep it going. It was the beginning of this dry cycle and the rabbits destroyed it. While they were hard on the common alfalfa control too, it survived a couple years. Our most promising legumes, other than sweetclover, are Cicer Milkvetch, Crownvetch, Illinois Bundleflower, Roundhead Lespedeza, and Birdsfoot. All of which have now lasted 10-25 years and were spreading before our recent conditions. We spread it to new areas by letting the seed mature, grazing it, then turning the cattle where we want it to grow.

Kent where did you get the seed for test plots?

I have found multiple research articles on yellow alfalfa - falcata but very limited seed sources. I am begginning to think the government and seed companies do not want a type of alfalfa that does not have to be reseeded every 3 to 5 years. I am trying to locate a northern US seed source.
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Austin Risty



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PostSubject: Re: Anik Alfalfa?   Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:35 pm

Pat

Your looking for falcata? If so look up Bud Smith, Lodgepole SD. I think they sell seed. Bud Just passed away last week, lots of articles on what he has done.
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Angus 62



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PostSubject: Re: Anik Alfalfa?   Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:13 pm

Pawnee Buttes Seed in Greeley CO has it listed for $12 a pound.
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PatB



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PostSubject: Re: Anik Alfalfa?   Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:17 pm

Kent Powell wrote:
I planted test plots of quite a few samples of yellow alfalfa from all over the world in a 50 + variety plot. I couldn't keep it going. It was the beginning of this dry cycle and the rabbits destroyed it. While they were hard on the common alfalfa control too, it survived a couple years. Our most promising legumes, other than sweetclover, are Cicer Milkvetch, Crownvetch, Illinois Bundleflower, Roundhead Lespedeza, and Birdsfoot. All of which have now lasted 10-25 years and were spreading before our recent conditions. We spread it to new areas by letting the seed mature, grazing it, then turning the cattle where we want it to grow.

I would be interested in where all the different varieties came from. Do you have a contact for who was running the trials?
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Kent Powell



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PostSubject: Re: Anik Alfalfa?   Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:43 pm

Interested to what end?
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PatB



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PostSubject: Re: Anik Alfalfa?   Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:07 pm

Kent Powell wrote:
Interested to what end?

In my research on yellow flowered alfalfa on the web it has come to my attention that germplam seed was imported from Romania to siberia and other parts of asia. I am wondering if there isn't a yellow flowered alfalfa the tolerates cold and higher moisture conditions that some of the varities for the more arid regions. I am hoping to have the local extension forage specialistsetup and run a few trials on yellow flowered alfalfa. The commercial high performance alfalfa does not persist here except in the rare plant or two. I will try to sample several different varities if I can get seed to satisfy my curiousity.
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Kent Powell



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PostSubject: Re: Anik Alfalfa?   Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:17 pm

From pictures and your description, I don't think your environment is much like North and South Dakota, where this stuff is now naturalized.

I thought we had a shot, but we may have too much heat and wind. Crested wheat is holding on, but sure not dominating.
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PatB



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PostSubject: Re: Anik Alfalfa?   Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:12 pm

Kent Powell wrote:
From pictures and your description, I don't think your environment is much like North and South Dakota, where this stuff is now naturalized.

I thought we had a shot, but we may have too much heat and wind. Crested wheat is holding on, but sure not dominating.

I agree that we get more moisture but I am thinking of a 14 acre hay field that sits on top of a very large gravel deposit. I also have several other fields I would like to try it on. You never know if something will work until you try it. I am looking for 4 or 5 pounds of 2 or 3 different varieties, unfortuneately I cannot get a sample of Anik out of canada. I cannot find any published research work on yellow leaf alfalfa that has been published in the last 2 or 3 years or updates on different cutlivars that were being developed.

I would be interested in hearing if any of the test plots have alfalfa that sprouts when moisture returns during the growing season.
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Kent Powell



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PostSubject: Re: Anik Alfalfa?   Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:37 pm

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PatB



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PostSubject: Re: Anik Alfalfa?   Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:46 pm

Thanx Kent

I will be busy on Tuesday tracking down some seed,
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Kent Powell



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PostSubject: Re: Anik Alfalfa?   Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:14 pm

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Kent Powell



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PostSubject: Re: Anik Alfalfa?   Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:56 pm



After several unsuccessful attempts to secure interest or information from existing research entities to pursue improvement of the range on this Ranch including the unincumbered freedom to significant acreage, labor and few restrictions on time, no interest was found. It became appearant that the research community was interested only in the grant writing and recieving system they seem to endlessly complain about. Appearantly we all insist reside within our own self imposed walls, rather than seek solutions. The decision was made to conduct our own research to meet our own needs. This ongoing experiment operates under the title of the Range Sustainability project. The head of this research project advised that the most likely improvement in range plant persistence under your environment and management is to reproduce those plants that persist. There are two choices, provide the environment and management to fit the plant, or accept the plants that produce in the environment you provide. We found that perhaps the most palatable plants are at a severe disadvantage if the plot is not of a significant enough size to overwhelm the natural browsers. I wonder how much "official" data is skewed due to similar events. I know that the improved little bluestem grass was selected for highest production under grazing pressure. A brilliant way to select grass that cattle do not care to eat.

Especially disapointing was the Salina Kansas based nonprofit "The Land Institute" who is working on Perennial cerial grain development. http://www.agcanada.com/grainews/2010/01/25/perennial-wheat-saves-spring-costs/

The range forage market does not have enough potential compared to the crop market to have significant involvement. This is fine. We all need to do our own homework and seek what we need or select it for ourselves. Kodak invented the digital camera in 1976, but the idea was shelved to protect their film business. How did that work out for them?? Don't wait for the experts. If they don't have what you want or need, find and produce it yourself. With CRP subsidizing the quo, why try blaze a trail?








This is the best book I have found to date on grasses:
http://goforthaysstate.com/s/947/index.aspx?sid=947&gid=1&pgid=679

Some of the lesser known forbs that may be of interest linked below. Certainly not all.

http://easywildflowers.com/quality/des.ill.htm

http://easywildflowers.com/quality/dal.purp.htm

http://easywildflowers.com/quality/dal.cand.htm

http://easywildflowers.com/quality/hel.maxi.htm

http://easywildflowers.com/Seeds.htm


http://www.everwilde.com/store/Amorpha-canescens-WildFlower-Seed.html

http://www.everwilde.com/store/Amorpha-fruticosa-WildFlower-Seed.html

http://www.everwilde.com/store/Astragalus-canadensis-WildFlower-Seed.html

http://www.everwilde.com/store/Baptisia-alba-WildFlower-Seed.html

http://www.everwilde.com/store/Baptisia-australis-WildFlower-Seed.html


http://www.everwilde.com/store/Baptisia-tinctoria-WildFlower-Seed.html

Partridge Pea- excellent pioneer. Slightly toxic but goot to get grass started.

http://www.everwilde.com/store/Chamaecrista-fasciculata-WildFlower-Seed.html

http://www.everwilde.com/store/Cichorium-intybus-WildFlower-Seed.html

http://www.everwilde.com/store/Dalea-candida-WildFlower-Seed.html

http://www.everwilde.com/store/Dalea-purpureum-WildFlower-Seed.html

http://www.everwilde.com/store/Desmanthus-illinoensis-WildFlower-Seed.html

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PostSubject: Re: Anik Alfalfa?   Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:41 pm

Thanks Kent.
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