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 Prospector 7558

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df



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PostSubject: Prospector 7558   Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:57 pm

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df



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PostSubject: Re: Prospector 7558   Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:18 pm

According to the author, "To achieve the best results of this form of line breeding, one should select only the very best son or sons of the bull to be used on only the very best daughters of the bull."
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Prospector 7558   Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:31 pm

df wrote:
According to the author, "To achieve the best results of this form of line breeding, one should select only the very best son or sons of the bull to be used on only the very best daughters of the bull."
seems logical, but I have my doubts...I now regret not keeping all of those full sib mating heifers on the way to making 1707...some of those, less than perfect in phenotype, might have produced an improved version in the next generation...I now think in terms of breeding for the whole of the gene pool, not for individuals...
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Kent Powell



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PostSubject: Re: Prospector 7558   Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:24 pm

Which brings back the question, What is the best? Most can go out into a group and pick out what they like. Many would agree on what good would be as a group. When we get down to picking the best, It seems to me the individual picked is most often the most different, and our choices would be in the direction of current trends. For the purposes discussed, this is the problem. This is the reason the only thing consistent in the selection of breeding stock for over a hundred years is changing them over an dover, back and forth, up and down, coarse to smooth, on and on.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Prospector 7558   Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:58 pm

Keystone wrote:
Which brings back the question, What is the best? Most can go out into a group and pick out what they like. Many would agree on what good would be as a group. When we get down to picking the best, It seems to me the individual picked is most often the most different, and our choices would be in the direction of current trends. For the purposes discussed, this is the problem. This is the reason the only thing consistent in the selection of breeding stock for over a hundred years is changing them over an dover, back and forth, up and down, coarse to smooth, on and on.
i have to laugh at the Genex bull that has caught the interest of the dark side and far side multipliers...his video looks like a limmy bull instead of an Angus...big rush to buy semen; when I can make bulls just like him all day long for $1500 using limmy genetics...and have equal predictability...
how come Angus multipliers don`t like Angus cattle? always choosing the bulls most unlike the Angus breed to use?
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: Prospector 7558   Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:38 am

Quote :
...7558 added frame size and muscle composition while also strengthening maternal traits as his daughters are standout females and exceptional milkers. The fact that he is 42% inbred makes him genetically very predictable which he has proven through his progeny. Prospector 7558 may have more superior performance genes without evidence of defect than any other known bull."

Sounds like paternal trait selection, so they would choose the "better" sons to keep the growth and rate of gain in the breeding.
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PostSubject: Re: Prospector 7558   Tue Dec 07, 2010 4:16 pm

MKeeney wrote:
[how come Angus multipliers don`t like Angus cattle? always choosing the bulls most unlike the Angus breed to use?


There is more to ponder on that little quote, than most anything written about cattle, genetics, anywhere.....period!!!
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: Prospector 7558   Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:13 pm

Bootheel wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
[how come Angus multipliers don`t like Angus cattle? always choosing the bulls most unlike the Angus breed to use?


There is more to ponder on that little quote, than most anything written about cattle, genetics, anywhere.....period!!!

Unfortunately it is also true of the Luing breed in Scotland - exactly the same - unless the bulls have limo conformation they are unsalable. Not content with doing what the breed or strain is supposed to do well the greedy ambition is to claim the cattle can do it all - better Rolling Eyes
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Oldtimer

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PostSubject: Re: Prospector 7558   Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:29 pm

MKeeney wrote:
Keystone wrote:
Which brings back the question, What is the best? Most can go out into a group and pick out what they like. Many would agree on what good would be as a group. When we get down to picking the best, It seems to me the individual picked is most often the most different, and our choices would be in the direction of current trends. For the purposes discussed, this is the problem. This is the reason the only thing consistent in the selection of breeding stock for over a hundred years is changing them over an dover, back and forth, up and down, coarse to smooth, on and on.
i have to laugh at the Genex bull that has caught the interest of the dark side and far side multipliers...his video looks like a limmy bull instead of an Angus...big rush to buy semen; when I can make bulls just like him all day long for $1500 using limmy genetics...and have equal predictability...
how come Angus multipliers don`t like Angus cattle? always choosing the bulls most unlike the Angus breed to use?

Again- I'm out of the circle.. Which of the Genex bulls has the far side now adopted as the saviour? Question
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Mean Spirit



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PostSubject: Re: Prospector 7558   Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:59 pm

Oldtimer wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
Keystone wrote:
Which brings back the question, What is the best? Most can go out into a group and pick out what they like. Many would agree on what good would be as a group. When we get down to picking the best, It seems to me the individual picked is most often the most different, and our choices would be in the direction of current trends. For the purposes discussed, this is the problem. This is the reason the only thing consistent in the selection of breeding stock for over a hundred years is changing them over an dover, back and forth, up and down, coarse to smooth, on and on.
i have to laugh at the Genex bull that has caught the interest of the dark side and far side multipliers...his video looks like a limmy bull instead of an Angus...big rush to buy semen; when I can make bulls just like him all day long for $1500 using limmy genetics...and have equal predictability...
how come Angus multipliers don`t like Angus cattle? always choosing the bulls most unlike the Angus breed to use?

Again- I'm out of the circle.. Which of the Genex bulls has the far side now adopted as the saviour? Question

Maybe Chisum?

He'd make a nice Charolais.
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robert



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PostSubject: Re: Prospector 7558   Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:31 pm

I thought he meant that ugly sob Upward....

I agree Grassfarmer, the UK angus type owes more to a limmy than anything else, other than perhaps a black charolais,
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: Prospector 7558   Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:27 pm

Robert, I'm not so familiar with the UK Angus scene but it seems every breed there competes to have the limo conformation. It's not entirely fashion as the supermarket beef demand there is for these high yielding, lean, no visible fat carcasses. It's ridiculous when maternal breeds like the Luing follow suit but still claim the resulting cows have the same maternal attributes and characteristics as their ancestors.
Here is a Luing bull from the very early 1980's (a rising 2 year old)

And his early 2000's counterpart at the same age despite being 35% heavier.

I know the first bull sired a lot of good cows that lasted to 20 years old because I had some of them. The other character I'm pretty sure wouldn't breed daughters I would use.
He looks like a terminal sire to me yet this is touted as breed improvement under the pretense you can have it all.
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robert



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PostSubject: Re: Prospector 7558   Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:33 am

http://abri.une.edu.au/online/cgi-bin/i4.dll?1=3E37202F&2=2934&3=56&5=2B3C2B3C3A&6=275D5B262125242624&9=5C5E5D27&11=535C5D&12=4241405B2D

Angus type?

looks like the Luing's have reinvented the Limousin breed as a red beef animal Smile Rolling Eyes I like the older bull a whole lot better.
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: Prospector 7558   Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:05 am

Lots of Canadian genetics in that heifer you posted. Lots of " breed improvement " going on with these genetics. Take the Aberdeen Angus to Canada turn it into a larger "Angus", send it back to Scotland and turn it into a Limo and I'll bet despite all this "improvement" the claim will be made that it still retains the traits of it's ancestor - with "added performance" Smile
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