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tim hair



Posts : 9
Join date : 2012-04-16

PostSubject: waite haven   Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:11 am

a freind of mine found semen in the tank reg.#12269810 what do you know about this bull and the waite haven herd
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Gus



Posts : 1
Join date : 2010-10-10
Location : Southeast Idaho

PostSubject: Re: waite haven   Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:49 pm

I picked up a small amount of his semen last year, will use some on heifers next spring. I know very little about the bull, I do have a cow out of a 585 legend bull.

As a calf

As a cow


Last edited by Gus on Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Gus



Posts : 1
Join date : 2010-10-10
Location : Southeast Idaho

PostSubject: Re: waite haven   Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:14 pm

A Bull out of the 585 bull


A bull calf from the 622 cow above


FYI the 585 is a 1/2 brother to 49

Reg. No. Name 12269816 Skeltons Legend 585
Reg. No. Name 12269810 Skeltons Legend 49

Relationship, 40.35%
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Grassfarmer



Posts : 714
Join date : 2010-09-27
Location : Belmont, Manitoba, Canada

PostSubject: Re: waite haven   Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:35 pm

Gus wrote:
I picked up a small amount of his semen last year, will use some on heifers next spring. I know very little about the bull....

I thought I'd stumbled into 4.9 by mistake scratch Is he a contender for the "long dead great bull club"? Regardless why would you buy semen off a bull you know very little about and use it on your heifers? I hope he's not a hard calver.
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Gus



Posts : 1
Join date : 2010-10-10
Location : Southeast Idaho

PostSubject: Re: waite haven   Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:06 pm

lol!
What.......you think I'm nuts......welcome to the club.

If nothing else Waite Haven Ranch had a breeding program surrounding of the own breeding cheers That was good enough for me. But for the record I don't have to justify what I do, as I've said before do just the opposite of what I do and you'll do just fine. Very Happy
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MKeeney
Admin


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Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: waite haven   Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:16 pm

Is the curiosity that killed the cat what neccessitates cats having nine lives? I`ve used up the bigger part of one life of curiosity...don`t we all ?
enjoyed the pedigree, though like all pedigrees, told me nothing about the cattle, but it did tell me enough about the man to arouse my curiosity; ...
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Kent Powell



Posts : 500
Join date : 2010-09-24
Location : SW Kansas

PostSubject: Re: waite haven   Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:56 pm

The Swedish Pig Farmer of Evergreen Angus may want to chime in. Bruce had a nice interview with the man, but his website appears to be down. If my recollection is correct the herd was started with two full sisters and built on Big Postelmere sires. Later an outcross or two including Q-bar. Heck of I know what that means, but they are as good as most, better than some who are still popular. Personally, I think you could learn what is there and have something sooner than continual picking what you think you know about current mix and match stuff, but who will take the time and pay for their own education? For the individual wishing to go it alone and build on the life's work of Mr. Waite, There is adequate supplies of both 49 and 585.
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evergreen



Posts : 4
Join date : 2010-09-28

PostSubject: Re: waite haven   Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:32 pm

Kent, this is a reminder you had asked about the article awhile ago. I forgot. I'm still intending to rebuild my website and get it back up, including using this article again. You and anyone else are welcome to it as I'm posting it here. On my site I had illustrated the article with a photo of Walter holding his old herd book and I maybe can find that. There are also scans of the Waite Haven 1987 dispersion sale catalog.

I called Waites just now and Mrs. Waite answered. She said Walter was "out and about, doing errands". (I hope that's what someone says of me when I'm old.) She sounded great and I told her there was still interest in the Waite Haven cattle. I'm a little shocked that my visit was in 2005. I was sure I'd get back there sooner. On the day I visited Walter was going to have his friend Jim Turner come by but he was at the grandkids' basketball game.

I had found a cow at Moore's in IA with a straight Waite pedigree and thought I'd try to buy her. I never got around to it and, as with the Waigroup cattle, I thought I was better off working on my own cattle and my own project. In an illustration of the TruLine concept, Moore thought the Waite cow was pretty average but her outcross daughter was really good, with ratios to prove it. Jeff Liston used one or both of the Legend bulls AI and had daughters in production several years ago.

Here it is:


I Just Want Them Practical
By Bruce Johnson

Note: This story is inspired and informed by an interview with Walter Waite at Conrad, MT on Saturday, Feb. 26, 2005. For those new to Angus cattle the pedigrees can be viewed online at HYPERLINK "http://www.angusonline.org" www.angusonline.org or HYPERLINK "http://www.angus.org" www.angus.org by clicking data search/epd pedigree lookup and then entering the name or registration number. This is the original draft, which will be updated with additions. There will be more material about the Waite Haven herd, including pictures, available later.

Walter Waite blended and linebred Eileenmere, Marshall, Bardolier and Bandolier lines of Angus in his Waite Haven herd at Conrad, MT from 1950 until 1987. The Postelmere cattle from Woodlawn Farm in Illinois, a blend of Eileenmere and Bandolier of Page, are significant in Waite cattle. While showing me the handwritten pedigrees from these cattle Mr. Waite said, “That Postelmere makes my mouth water.”

The Waite herd was kick started with the purchase of Foothills Postel Emersonia (#1982556), a daughter of Postelmere 525, from Mrs. Waldo Forbes of Beckton Stock Farm. Foothills Postel Emersonia was born in 1954 and left Elcona of Waite Haven 2 and Elcona of Waite Haven 4, full sisters by Barons Black Lad of MV (#1875900), a linebred Earl Marshall bull Walter purchased from the Mountain View herd of Oliver Galt at Stanford, MT. Galt had bought the bull’s dam, Barbaros Barbara 10, a daughter of Henkes Eliminator 2, for $600. In his notes about the Elcona cows 2 and 4 in his 1987 dispersal catalog, Walter wrote

These are the best two cows we ever raised. We have intensely linebred back to these two cows; they are full sisters. Elcona 2 never weaned a calf under 600 lbs. and the same for Elcona 4. Elcona had a calf every year up through 18 years while Elcona 4 went 17 years. I could never decide which cow was superior. You will see these cows many times in the pedigrees of the cows selling. Elcona 2 shows the Bandolier Revolution ancestry; Elcona 4 shows the Eileenmere Marshall conformation.

Mr. Waite said the Baron bull and the Beckton cow made the foundation. Galt sold Walter the Baron bull at a favorable price because he had a twisted leg and “no one else wanted him. The Hereford breeders said he had too much leg.”

Next came the influence of Lovemere 17, another 1954 model, a bull bred by Anton Lovfald, Bozeman, MT. “LeRoy Anderson (Conrad, MT) went to the Montana Winter Fair and bought this one. Anton Lovfald was winning everything.” Behind the bull on the dam’s side was Barbaro 5 of Airyland, from “huge Revolution cattle” according to Mr. Waite. The original Legend of Waite Haven, with no numerical digit in his name, was by Lovemere 17 out of a Postelmere 400 sired cow. He sired Elcona of Waite Haven 7 out of the Elcona 2 cow. Elcona 7 figures heavily in the linebred pedigrees, especially as the maternal granddam of Legend of Waite Haven 56, discussed later and “the best bull we ever used,” according to Walter.

About naming the Waite Haven bulls Legend and cows Elcona, Mr. Waite told of his visits to the Woodlawn herd of the Pierces in Illinois, home of the Postelmeres. The elder Mr. Pierce had said, “Some people wouldn’t know a good bull if they had a search warrant.” Walter appreciated the Elcona of Shoestands cow imported by Pierce, and “I decided Legend and Elcona would be my names.”

Lovemere 17 was a descendent of Eileenmere 487, from the J. Garrett Tolan herd of Illinois. Tolan told Walter Waite 487 “was the best Eileenmere we ever raised – and we sold him.” The Tolans were famous for their winnings at the Chicago show year after year. Another Lovemere 17 son bred at LeRoy Anderson’s was Pondera Pride 52 (#5881786). Walter described him on page 1 of the 1987 dispersal catalog:

We have intensely linebred back to Pondera Pride 52. His sire, Lovemere 17, was a Winter Fair Champion. If you remember back in the early 50’s, those bulls Anton Lovfald brought to sales were lots bigger for age and Lovemere 17 was the best bull he ever raised. Pondera Pride 52’s mother was sired by Espas Prince Hyalite and raised by that old master breeder Wib Harrer in 1949. A very long tall upstanding bull that could sire very heavy calves. 52’s mother’s dam was by Ernest Endeavor 10, a huge N Bar bull. We used a son of his in 1952, but everyone told us we had to have short legged cattle, so unfortunately we sold his offspring. They would sure compete for weight for age right today.

The Waite cattle were selected for growth and frame, as evidenced by Walter’s comments, but he was a stickler for type and reliability, too. “Longevity and fertility are a Waite Haven standard. I never had a bull returned.” About their performance Mr. Waite said, “I never had to burn them up to compete.” When eyeballing females, he said, “If you want to select for fertility get the big round eye, not the Chinese eye, and glossy. The Bardolier and Bandolier will give you the glossy ones. The Eileenmere and Marshall won’t give the gloss. As a Scotch person I just want them practical, and not fake.”

Breeding Pondera Pride 52 to his daughter Elcona of Waite Haven 22, who was out of the Elcona 7 granddaughter of the foundation Foothills Postel Emersonia described earlier, produced Legend of Waite Haven 56 (#8303218). Walter wrote, “Legend of Waite Haven 56 is a result of mating Pondera Pride 52 to one of his daughters. He is the best bull we ever used. He sired the 1979 Hi Lite Champion. He also sired the 1,904 lb. 1982 Northern Lights Champion. There are quite a few daughters in the (1987) sale and they are big, roomy, fertile cows.”

An extended Waite Haven pedigree shows Legend of Waite Haven 56 on many lines. In commenting on females in the dispersal Walter said, “…another good cow with long hips, width at the pins, thick loins, and deep quarter. There are no dumpy cattle in these pedigrees or sub-fertile light-quartered animals.” About the Foothills Postel Emersonia cow he said, “Our original cow, Foothills Postel Emersonia, was just the opposite of the Angus trend in the early 1950’s. She was long headed, long bodied, smooth shouldered with thinner, longer legs. What convinced me of her value was that she was turning out a 600-700 lb. calf each year. That’s the main reason the whole herd traces back to her many times in these pedigrees.” One might say Walter Waite “went Postel” with his herd.

Mr. Waite is retired from his cattle career, but still active. His fascinating book Silver Dollar Tales (Old Utica) about the characters in the old cow town of Utica, MT from the 1880’s through the Great Depression is available directly from the author, who can be reached at 412 South Illinois, Conrad, MT 59425, where he lives with his wife Marilyn.

Copyright 2005 Bruce Johnson



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