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Bob H



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PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:44 am

I would think that 2.8% of the cows body weight would be real close to consumption which is 2.8lbs per hundred wt. or the difference between a 1000 lb cow or 1500 lb cow of 14 lbs per day. The other thought is you have to have a big enough carcass to have economy of scale at the packing house. Bob H
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df



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PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:45 am

Which part? How to set up an experiement or be sure to read as much as you can?
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df



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PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:48 am

Bob H wrote:
I would think that 2.8% of the cows body weight would be real close to consumption which is 2.8lbs per hundred wt. or the difference between a 1000 lb cow or 1500 lb cow of 14 lbs per day. The other thought is you have to have a big enough carcass to have economy of scale at the packing house. Bob H

But as MK pointed out, that would just be an estimate and not identify lines that can do the same with less.
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df



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PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:52 am

MKeeney wrote:
we can`t even define it...but that`s really not neccessary for a marketer...just say you have it and roll on; aided and abetted by no less than the supposed unbiased universities who market themselves as well...
Are there enough commercial cattlemen that can deal with reality for a simple tru-line system to be sustainably profitable?

Lots of folks get on a marketing kick before they prove the truth. And others repeat something that is false but marketed as a truth to the point that readers are confused as to what is proven and what is a "gut" feeling.
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df



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PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:42 am

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df



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PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:43 am

Grassfarmer wrote:
df wrote:

How would you test if the progeny are efficient on pasture?
Easy you test the adult population using a stockmans eye and observation - it's population genetics again - you don't need to test each crop of calves if the cows are doing it already.

The problem on pasture is that it is a little more complicated to determine how much each specific cow is eating.
A fistulated cow would work but I guess that's too much effort - easier to have them in a feedlot eating grain

The point is gathering FE data on pasture is probably a bit complicated and is not a silver bullet to making money.
What's not a silver bullet to making money? - collecting data or identifying cows that have better foraging ability and hence better true "feed efficiency" in a pasture situation if we take that to mean they can use the pasture resource more efficiently?


If research showed the rumen microbe population was strongly correlated to FE, costs and time would be greatly reduced. Then it becomes as simple as taking a rumen sample and using DNA test (metagenomic).
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:09 am

Why not a feed test with daily chopped forage. It could be measured and if the forage came from the same field then the daily mositure variation would be the same for all participants.
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larkota



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Age : 57
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PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:20 pm

EddieM wrote:
Why not a feed test with daily chopped forage. It could be measured and if the forage came from the same field then the daily mositure variation would be the same for all participants.

looks like work.
would be easier to just pick off the poor doer's. too simple.

never did like testing... I'm always below average.
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:19 pm

larkota wrote:
EddieM wrote:
Why not a feed test with daily chopped forage. It could be measured and if the forage came from the same field then the daily mositure variation would be the same for all participants.

looks like work.
would be easier to just pick off the poor doer's. too simple.

never did like testing... I'm always below average.

Just trying to help df get his career into high gear! No interest to me either.
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df



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PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:18 pm

EddieM wrote:
larkota wrote:
EddieM wrote:
Why not a feed test with daily chopped forage. It could be measured and if the forage came from the same field then the daily mositure variation would be the same for all participants.

looks like work.
would be easier to just pick off the poor doer's. too simple.

never did like testing... I'm always below average.

Just trying to help df get his career into high gear! No interest to me either.

I'll pass on looking at feed efficiency. Smile
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LCP



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PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:32 pm

My thinking is that the Grow Safe feed efficiency test fits into the terminal sire selection process just fine, if I'm wanting to make feeder calves. I'm not as enthusiastic about it for maternal selection because of what it doesn't account for. What are the tradeoffs of selecting for more feed efficiency? Less fat and more muscle? Not necessarily a good thing for the cow herd.

I'm also wondering about the correlation between measuring gain on a bull in a dry lot and a grazing cow's ablilty to put on fat when she's got the opportunity. Besides we already have some research in the way of cow feed efficiency... less milk = less maintenance cost, even when dry. I wonder if that correlation shows up in the feed efficiency tests?
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:42 am

LCP wrote:
My thinking is that the Grow Safe feed efficiency test fits into the terminal sire selection process just fine, if I'm wanting to make feeder calves. I'm not as enthusiastic about it for maternal selection because of what it doesn't account for. What are the tradeoffs of selecting for more feed efficiency? Less fat and more muscle? Not necessarily a good thing for the cow herd.

I'm also wondering about the correlation between measuring gain on a bull in a dry lot and a grazing cow's ablilty to put on fat when she's got the opportunity. Besides we already have some research in the way of cow feed efficiency... less milk = less maintenance cost, even when dry. I wonder if that correlation shows up in the feed efficiency tests?

LL`s "red tags/paternals" certainly were gainers in their day; no efficiency measures from those days, but if I was betting; i`d bet "efficient"
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df



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PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:11 pm

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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:15 am

df wrote:
http://absbeef.wordpress.com/2012/10/26/abs-global-invests-in-beef-feed-efficiency-research-development/
with feed conversion like that, the pork industry is doomed and poultry is in serious trouble Exclamation Finally, a semen company is going to breed some cattle...now if you could only believe their results??? I`m afraid they been in the BS game too long to have much credibility, but maybe it`s a beginning... cheers
in the meanwhile instead of waiting 30 years for more predictable results , those who wish to produce more calf from less cow and thus less overall feed in beef production{not just "test" feed} can use a system of maternal and paternal sires..
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Bob H



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PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:51 am

Mike are they going to breed cattle that work on ranches and take the profit or loss and tell the truth. Or are they going to breed cattle to sell to ranches and use as seedstock and let the ranchers take the loss and move to the city to get work. Most of my experince has been the later they should if they want to sell semen go to a successful long time actual rancher and seedstock breeder to get bullls that work. I think when the ink is dry on this feed deal that it will be the size of the cow and her long term predictabliy than if she consumes 2.7 or 2.8 of her body weight. The other thing that if they use their mind is get away from staight bred angus and use the other lines of bulls to produce an end product, but it does not matter to me. I know that a cow that weighs 1100 lbs if offerd could consume 30 lbs of cheap dry matter and a cow that weighs 1500 could consume 42 lbs of dry matter a day with the offspring being much comparable. I also know that the consumer does not want a bigger than 12 inch ribeye. Why would we worry about that .01. Bob H
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PatB



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PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:00 am

Horse butte 6141 of 3141 is there semen available from one of the AI companies? It comes down to a matter of ease of shipping. Very Happy I am thinking he may be a nice cross onto my cedar ridge heifers next fall.
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Kent Powell



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PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:35 am

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Kent Powell



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PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:36 am

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Kent Powell



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PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:37 am

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Kent Powell



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PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:38 am

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Kent Powell



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PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:42 am












Are efficiency and practicality interchangable?

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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:23 pm

Bob H wrote:
Mike are they going to breed cattle that work on ranches and take the profit or loss and tell the truth. Or are they going to breed cattle to sell to ranches and use as seedstock and let the ranchers take the loss and move to the city to get work. Most of my experince has been the later they should if they want to sell semen go to a successful long time actual rancher and seedstock breeder to get bullls that work. I think when the ink is dry on this feed deal that it will be the size of the cow and her long term predictabliy than if she consumes 2.7 or 2.8 of her body weight. The other thing that if they use their mind is get away from staight bred angus and use the other lines of bulls to produce an end product, but it does not matter to me. I know that a cow that weighs 1100 lbs if offerd could consume 30 lbs of cheap dry matter and a cow that weighs 1500 could consume 42 lbs of dry matter a day with the offspring being much comparable. I also know that the consumer does not want a bigger than 12 inch ribeye. Why would we worry about that .01. Bob H

the scientist is quick to promote his latest scientific possibility; for he must publish or perish...but the registered breeder supercedes even the scientist in the promtion of the lastest possibility; for he can adopt and claim the new, unproven advancement immediately to separate his cattle from the pack...
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PatB



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PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:47 pm

link to advantage discussion on a HBR bull

http://www.advantagecattle.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7679
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:27 pm

PatB wrote:
link to advantage discussion on a HBR bull

http://www.advantagecattle.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7679

I read that thread; seems the users of the 6141 bull have built that relationship that DV talks about instead of "rustling"...but Dennis Voss, a nice guy??? Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Wake up Dennis, your reputaion is slipping Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation Smile
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:11 pm

MKeeney wrote:
Bob H wrote:
Mike are they going to breed cattle that work on ranches and take the profit or loss and tell the truth. Or are they going to breed cattle to sell to ranches and use as seedstock and let the ranchers take the loss and move to the city to get work. Most of my experince has been the later they should if they want to sell semen go to a successful long time actual rancher and seedstock breeder to get bullls that work. I think when the ink is dry on this feed deal that it will be the size of the cow and her long term predictabliy than if she consumes 2.7 or 2.8 of her body weight. The other thing that if they use their mind is get away from staight bred angus and use the other lines of bulls to produce an end product, but it does not matter to me. I know that a cow that weighs 1100 lbs if offerd could consume 30 lbs of cheap dry matter and a cow that weighs 1500 could consume 42 lbs of dry matter a day with the offspring being much comparable. I also know that the consumer does not want a bigger than 12 inch ribeye. Why would we worry about that .01. Bob H

the scientist is quick to promote his latest scientific possibility; for he must publish or perish...but the registered breeder supercedes even the scientist in the promtion of the lastest possibility; for he can adopt and claim the new, unproven advancement immediately to separate his cattle from the pack...

more proof of the above...notice the average commercial bred heifer versus GAR bred heifer comparison...all because of "gmx".???..wow...what con do they try and cram down one`s throat next...

http://www.threetreesranch.com/
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