Keeney`s Corner

A current and reflective discussion of cattle breeding from outside the registered mainstream
 
HomeUsergroupsRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 Semen Auction

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
AuthorMessage
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4624
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:45 am

df wrote:
Kent Powell wrote:
Do you think there is an economically viable commercial chain of production to utilize the levels of production available now?

I believe there are systems that are better than others. It is possible for all of the systems to be profitable and at other times none of them are profitable.

Probably the biggest challenge is identifying the ideal cow and propagating her. Terminal bulls are plentiful.

df,
why not just settle for a "good cow with fewer problems"? I bet a lot of good cows have been ruined by trying to change them into "ideal cows" that rarely can be re-created phenotypically with any breeding method including close breeding ?
Must this good cow be different on a regional basis? when a group of "maternally bred" cows from irrigated alfalfa in MT fail miserably when moved to KY, was it genetic, or was it learned behavior/adaptation? I believe the latter; I believe I could use the sires of those failed cows in KY, raise the offspring here, and repeat a typical cow performance here...I think you can move genes via bulls or semen, but you can`t move cows Exclamation

as to systems, seems we have a new one available in Ky...

http://www.bgstockyards.com/images/E0315801/Leachman.pdf

Leachman Cattle measures and selects for feed efficiency.
We have feed intake records on over 11,000 animals.
We use this data to select the bulls that eat less and produce more.
In turn, these bulls produce daughters that do the same

How does anyone know that?
Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
PatB



Posts : 455
Join date : 2010-09-25
Age : 53
Location : Turner, Maine

PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:02 am

which Leachman is this? Why are they having a sale in kentucky not their home area?
Back to top Go down
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4624
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:07 am

PatB wrote:
which Leachman is this? Why are they having a sale in kentucky not their home area?
Leachman of Colorado; formerly of MT; always of the whole wide world Smile
I hope they get them sold really high; then they are no competition for me Smile
Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
PatB



Posts : 455
Join date : 2010-09-25
Age : 53
Location : Turner, Maine

PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:41 am

Are these cattle produce by Jim Leachman?
Back to top Go down
Bob H



Posts : 372
Join date : 2011-02-17
Location : SW Idaho

PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:05 am

The best thing about buying semen from a salesman is you know that a bull might be able to mount a steer once a week. In my business it is way more important to get a coupon implanted in a cow that is predictable and reasonably placed. Labor and low cost feed sources that cattle harvest on their own with predictable genetics, will make an easier life on a ranch than all the blue sky in the world. My large neighbor's people tell me they have 1200 dollars in a heifer when they breed her with all the BS. We have around 900 in them or 1050 in the fall. The other thing is there is no way I would change cows with them on a bet.

So my big question is why not breed (with bulls so the commercial man knows they are breeders) cattle that are sustainable for you and your commercial producers?

If you are worried about keeping them in business (the commercial man) call one of the big feeders or packers and ask them what they would like. My guess is that it is a char/angus cross that is a yield grade 2 and choice or better with at least a 700 lb carcass (they may want them bigger but you could ruin your maternal end and they will be fine). These are easy to make with good maternal line bred cattle as fruit and good terminal bulls as seedless fruit and you can put the boys with the girls and get the little ones. The other thing about asking these folks is they are going to get 100% of your production under 30 months of age, with all of your live inventory eventually ending up there with no BS from (purebred) breeders or salesmen. From the real world Bob H


Last edited by Bob H on Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:11 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
df



Posts : 613
Join date : 2010-09-28

PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:06 am

MKeeney wrote:
df wrote:
Kent Powell wrote:
Do you think there is an economically viable commercial chain of production to utilize the levels of production available now?

I believe there are systems that are better than others. It is possible for all of the systems to be profitable and at other times none of them are profitable.

Probably the biggest challenge is identifying the ideal cow and propagating her. Terminal bulls are plentiful.

df,
why not just settle for a "good cow with fewer problems"? I bet a lot of good cows have been ruined by trying to change them into "ideal cows" that rarely can be re-created phenotypically with any breeding method including close breeding ?
Must this good cow be different on a regional basis? when a group of "maternally bred" cows from irrigated alfalfa in MT fail miserably when moved to KY, was it genetic, or was it learned behavior/adaptation? I believe the latter; I believe I could use the sires of those failed cows in KY, raise the offspring here, and repeat a typical cow performance here...I think you can move genes via bulls or semen, but you can`t move cows Exclamation

as to systems, seems we have a new one available in Ky...

http://www.bgstockyards.com/images/E0315801/Leachman.pdf

Leachman Cattle measures and selects for feed efficiency.
We have feed intake records on over 11,000 animals.
We use this data to select the bulls that eat less and produce more.
In turn, these bulls produce daughters that do the same

How does anyone know that?

So the cows that are "good enough" in MT are "good enough" in KY?
Back to top Go down
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4624
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:37 am

df wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
df wrote:
Kent Powell wrote:
Do you think there is an economically viable commercial chain of production to utilize the levels of production available now?

I believe there are systems that are better than others. It is possible for all of the systems to be profitable and at other times none of them are profitable.

Probably the biggest challenge is identifying the ideal cow and propagating her. Terminal bulls are plentiful.

df,
why not just settle for a "good cow with fewer problems"? I bet a lot of good cows have been ruined by trying to change them into "ideal cows" that rarely can be re-created phenotypically with any breeding method including close breeding ?
Must this good cow be different on a regional basis? when a group of "maternally bred" cows from irrigated alfalfa in MT fail miserably when moved to KY, was it genetic, or was it learned behavior/adaptation? I believe the latter; I believe I could use the sires of those failed cows in KY, raise the offspring here, and repeat a typical cow performance here...I think you can move genes via bulls or semen, but you can`t move cows Exclamation

as to systems, seems we have a new one available in Ky...

http://www.bgstockyards.com/images/E0315801/Leachman.pdf

Leachman Cattle measures and selects for feed efficiency.
We have feed intake records on over 11,000 animals.
We use this data to select the bulls that eat less and produce more.
In turn, these bulls produce daughters that do the same

How does anyone know that?

So the cows that are "good enough" in MT are "good enough" in KY?

The same maternal genetics are pleasing Bob in Hell`s Canyon, DV on the Butte, and me as well in KY on fast growing, wet, green grass...but if we traded 6 yr old cows, I think we each might be disappointed with the results...
now at Kent`s or below, you might want some less milk...??




Leachman is saying the bulls that are more efficient in the feedlot sire cows that are more efficient in the pasture...do you believe that, df?

Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
df



Posts : 613
Join date : 2010-09-28

PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:49 pm

I don't know if that is true. However, few have as much data as Leachman. I don't know if any universities have gotten this far in the US.
Back to top Go down
Bob H



Posts : 372
Join date : 2011-02-17
Location : SW Idaho

PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:55 pm

I would take a stab at this. They are just testing on high energy that I cannot afford to buy. I should invest allot of time and money into this so that I can go broke faster. Maybe I will just take the fork in the road that says if she is pregnant and has good coupon in our enviroment that we will be sustainable. Won't it be interesting if this is the first year of a drouth and corn is 15 dollars next year and all of the energy we can afford comes out of Kentucy in a bottle Bob H.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:01 pm

Bob H wrote:
I would take a stab at this. They are just testing on high energy that I cannot afford to buy. I should invest allot of time and money into this so that I can go broke faster. Maybe I will just take the fork in the road that says if she is pregnant and has good coupon in our enviroment that we will be sustainable. Won't it be interesting if this is the first year of a drouth and corn is 15 dollars next year and all of the energy we can afford comes out of Kentucy in a bottle Bob H.

W.T relizing there is no place like home. And filling the root celler with bottles filled with energy while i can afford them.
Back to top Go down
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4624
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:08 am

df wrote:
I don't know if that is true. However, few have as much data as Leachman. I don't know if any universities have gotten this far in the US.
gotten this far doing what? We know how far Leachman has come making one kind do everything best...just far enough to BS about the newest piece of science that can be distorted quickly into a sales pitch...
now we have Suther promoting straightbred Angus as "his system", the Bob Howard Shoshone Angus sired cow bred to Charolais bulls, and the Leachman crossbred stabalizer {is crossbred stabalizer an oxymoron?}...and in my opinion and even 50 years of experience, nothing wrong or no reason to not be commercially profitable with any of the three genetic options if you keep your financial house in order, but we do have Leachman history as a data source to prove that that genetics can`t overcome over-priced BULLSHIT...
Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
Bob H



Posts : 372
Join date : 2011-02-17
Location : SW Idaho

PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:54 am

.After more thought on this I would think that the middle of your own population would be the most effiecent on the feed that you have available in your enviroment. The test goes on 365 days a year and the old girls in your herd are the results. Take a good hard look at them as they are packing the rest of the socalist non working sobs and are glad to do it, it is their job.

It sounds a little bit like America, another population that is moving on taxing the old hard working population because the others are entitled to a better life, I don't think so. There will be a time when both the cows and the people have to stand on there own and make a living why not start today and let the chips fall where they may. Bob H
Back to top Go down
Grassfarmer



Posts : 850
Join date : 2010-09-27
Location : Belmont, Manitoba, Canada

PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:27 am

I have always thought this idea of "feed efficiency testing" bulls on a grain ration in a feedlot bears no relevance to a grazing situation and particularly not to producing a functional maternal population in a grazing environment. First point is the feed has the polar opposite qualities to most grazed feed - ie higher quality and ad-lib. Second point is it doesn't select for grazing ability - a very important trait in a grazing population. Most people don't seem to consider this a trait at all but I'm convinced it is one as all cows do not graze with equal skill and enthusiasm. Feed efficiency testing in the feedlot is probably good selection for .... feed efficiency in the feedlot.
Back to top Go down
http://www.luingcattle.com
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:05 am

Bob H wrote:
.After more thought on this I would think that the middle of your own population would be the most effiecent on the feed that you have available in your enviroment. The test goes on 365 days a year and the old girls in your herd are the results. Take a good hard look at them as they are packing the rest of the socalist non working sobs and are glad to do it, it is their job.

It sounds a little bit like America, another population that is moving on taxing the old hard working population because the others are entitled to a better life, I don't think so. There will be a time when both the cows and the people have to stand on there own and make a living why not start today and let the chips fall where they may. Bob H

I have found that the middle indeed is what can best survive in the environment. As the little red hen lesson revealed the pig was more than willing to stand at the feed bunk and eat the bread and the wheat but was to fat to put forth the effort required to walk to the next feed bunk. The duck had flat feet and couldn't walk. And this is so true in the feedlot versus the cattle that can cover the ground required to survive in the desert, some are just unwilling or unable to put forth the effort required to preform. WT in the vicinity of finding wisdom in BOB"S post's.
Back to top Go down
Kent Powell



Posts : 606
Join date : 2010-09-24
Location : SW Kansas

PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:09 am

The wrong trail was taken when bulls started being tested for what they want steers to do, when in reality they just selected bulls who act like steers.

We just locked up a yearling bull and graduated him from bull college early. He was so enthusiastic and focused on breeding, he didn't take the time to eat. He was the smallest bull there yet would compete for every cow. At least once a big bull threw him over the fence. He never quit. I am not too worried about it because castration is the method to remove his behavioral issues from his calves, not selection for androgynous males pedestaled as superior breeders.

It is not a lot different from what is happening in society. There is no grasp and little appreciation for maleness.
Back to top Go down
http://powellangus.com
df



Posts : 613
Join date : 2010-09-28

PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:54 pm

MKeeney wrote:
df wrote:
I don't know if that is true. However, few have as much data as Leachman. I don't know if any universities have gotten this far in the US.
gotten this far doing what? We know how far Leachman has come making one kind do everything best...just far enough to BS about the newest piece of science that can be distorted quickly into a sales pitch...
now we have Suther promoting straightbred Angus as "his system", the Bob Howard Shoshone Angus sired cow bred to Charolais bulls, and the Leachman crossbred stabalizer {is crossbred stabalizer an oxymoron?}...and in my opinion and even 50 years of experience, nothing wrong or no reason to not be commercially profitable with any of the three genetic options if you keep your financial house in order, but we do have Leachman history as a data source to prove that that genetics can`t overcome over-priced BULLSHIT...

I don't know if any of the universities have any data in the US to support that bulls that sire FE steers in the feedlot are the same bulls that sire FE females in the pasture. I know several universities use the GrowSafe equipment.

I would suspect that Lee Leachman has either gathered information from others or at least has a good feeling about what is going on in some of his cooperator herds. I don't know if his statements are true; I am only saying he may know something as he has lots of cows to work with in his cooperator and customers herds.

I have not kept up with the stuff on FE so really don't have much to add.
Back to top Go down
Kent Powell



Posts : 606
Join date : 2010-09-24
Location : SW Kansas

PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:06 pm

An indicator trait of an indicator trait when direct data is easily measured.
Back to top Go down
http://powellangus.com
df



Posts : 613
Join date : 2010-09-28

PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:10 pm

Kent Powell wrote:
An indicator trait of an indicator trait when direct data is easily measured.

Sorry, not sure what you are discussing.
Back to top Go down
Grassfarmer



Posts : 850
Join date : 2010-09-27
Location : Belmont, Manitoba, Canada

PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:22 pm

How do you define "feed efficient" in a pasture situation df? My favourite cows are the ones that maintain condition better and require less days of supplementary feed in the year while still turning in a good enough calf. They likely do that by harvesting more feed, particularly poorer quality grass and forbs than some others in the herd. So are these cows deemed "not feed efficient" because they harvest more feed - even if that feed would otherwise be wasted or left ungrazed as it is by some of their herd mates who would rather lose condition than forage aggressively?
Back to top Go down
http://www.luingcattle.com
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:22 pm

Kent Powell wrote:
The wrong trail was taken when bulls started being tested for what they want steers to do, when in reality they just selected bulls who act like steers.

We just locked up a yearling bull and graduated him from bull college early. He was so enthusiastic and focused on breeding, he didn't take the time to eat. He was the smallest bull there yet would compete for every cow. At least once a big bull threw him over the fence. He never quit. I am not too worried about it because castration is the method to remove his behavioral issues from his calves, not selection for androgynous males pedestaled as superior breeders.

It is not a lot different from what is happening in society. There is no grasp and little appreciation for maleness.


Once again I sit here contemplating the ways of the world, and Kent speaks it so beautifully that nothing but my congruence to his philosophy can be added.



Thank you Kent for speaking Truths.


Back to top Go down
df



Posts : 613
Join date : 2010-09-28

PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:38 pm

Grassfarmer wrote:
How do you define "feed efficient" in a pasture situation df? My favourite cows are the ones that maintain condition better and require less days of supplementary feed in the year while still turning in a good enough calf. They likely do that by harvesting more feed, particularly poorer quality grass and forbs than some others in the herd. So are these cows deemed "not feed efficient" because they harvest more feed - even if that feed would otherwise be wasted or left ungrazed as it is by some of their herd mates who would rather lose condition than forage aggressively?

How would you test if the progeny are efficient on pasture? Let's first look at the feedlot test. The animals eating out of GrowSafe bunks must consume the same feed as every other calf. Thus, the feed must be pelleted, high concentrate or all forage. Otherwise, one calf might sort the feed and only eat one type, such as all concentrates. The GrowSafe system is a bunk that sits on weigh bars. A weight is taken almost continuously to determine how many grams of feed "disappears" while one and only one calf is at the bunk. There is a reader in the bunk that reads the EID tag of the calf. In some cases, such as at MU, there are also scales at the water tank that determine how much water the calf consumes each day. It weighs the calf while at the water tank. In this way, in a research setting, lots of data can be collected which includes how much feed and water is consumed each day, when the calf eats and how many times it eats. It can even help determine when a calf is sick and may eventually be used to give oral medication to a calf in its water when it comes to the water tank. Research shows the amount of feed consumed each day can vary a lot by each calf. Because of the costs of this system, it is found mostly in research but there are several cattle producers using it. I would think someone has tested progeny in a concentrate as well as roughage diet but have not seen the data. As a side note, one university has modified it to test sheep!!

The problem on pasture is that it is a little more complicated to determine how much each specific cow is eating. In addition, if the calves are tested during the growing season as opposed to after the first frost (about when stockpiled fescue stops growing), then you will probably want a back fence so they don't consume forage regrowth that was never measured.

So one option would be to divide the pasture into cells where one cell holds calves from one sire group. From a pure experimental standpoint, this would not be good as researchers would prefer to have multiple cells for one sire group so they could say that in general, sire 1's calves are better than sire 2's calves on average across a variety of pastures. Anyway, let's just use one cell for one sire group. In the east that sire group could be small, maybe 6-10 head and the cell would have to have enough forage to last through the test. Depending on the length of the test, the time of year, the number of calves and if you are going to let them eat on pasture where they have already consumed forage, this cell might only need to be 5-10 acres. More animals in a group makes it easier to measure forage disappearance. If the cell is too big, then you have a problem in that the quality and quantity of forage might vary a lot between groups and necessitate the need for multiple cells for each sire group.

The type of animals that are measured might be progeny from weaning to yearling time. I guess it could be done with older animals but you would want to compensate for the growth of the calf and probably changes in body condition score.

That might be a long answer to your question but should illustrate how complicated it might be to collect the data on forage. Some folks might claim their range will handle more cows than in the past and say it is due to improved FE of the cows. However, the range conditions might have gotten better, the cows might be a little smaller and milk less and they might be raising a smaller calf. I don't have any idea.

Others might simply say it doesn't matter; they have the right ranch finance structure (Ranching for Profit), the right marketing (Cornerstone Marketing), the right stockmanship (Bud Williams, Richard and Tina, Dylan Biggs), the right lease structure (Greg Judy), the right MIG (Jim Gerrish, Fred Martz) the right behavior of eating weeds (Kathy Voth) and the list goes on and on. And I am not putting down any of those I just mentioned. I have learned from all of them and more. The point is gathering FE data on pasture is probably a bit complicated and is not a silver bullet to making money.

Back to top Go down
Grassfarmer



Posts : 850
Join date : 2010-09-27
Location : Belmont, Manitoba, Canada

PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:15 pm

df wrote:

How would you test if the progeny are efficient on pasture?
Easy you test the adult population using a stockmans eye and observation - it's population genetics again - you don't need to test each crop of calves if the cows are doing it already.

The problem on pasture is that it is a little more complicated to determine how much each specific cow is eating.
A fistulated cow would work but I guess that's too much effort - easier to have them in a feedlot eating grain

The point is gathering FE data on pasture is probably a bit complicated and is not a silver bullet to making money.
What's not a silver bullet to making money? - collecting data or identifying cows that have better foraging ability and hence better true "feed efficiency" in a pasture situation if we take that to mean they can use the pasture resource more efficiently?

Back to top Go down
http://www.luingcattle.com
df



Posts : 613
Join date : 2010-09-28

PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:38 pm

Grassfarmer wrote:
df wrote:

How would you test if the progeny are efficient on pasture?
Easy you test the adult population using a stockmans eye and observation - it's population genetics again - you don't need to test each crop of calves if the cows are doing it already.

The problem on pasture is that it is a little more complicated to determine how much each specific cow is eating.
A fistulated cow would work but I guess that's too much effort - easier to have them in a feedlot eating grain

The point is gathering FE data on pasture is probably a bit complicated and is not a silver bullet to making money.
What's not a silver bullet to making money? - collecting data or identifying cows that have better foraging ability and hence better true "feed efficiency" in a pasture situation if we take that to mean they can use the pasture resource more efficiently?


How do you "test" the adult population?

How did you define feed efficiency?

Would Texas Longhorns be considered feed efficient?

Back to top Go down
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4624
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:11 am

we can`t even define it...but that`s really not neccessary for a marketer...just say you have it and roll on; aided and abetted by no less than the supposed unbiased universities who market themselves as well...
Are there enough commercial cattlemen that can deal with reality for a simple tru-line system to be sustainably profitable?
Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4624
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:31 am

df wrote:
Grassfarmer wrote:
How do you define "feed efficient" in a pasture situation df? My favourite cows are the ones that maintain condition better and require less days of supplementary feed in the year while still turning in a good enough calf. They likely do that by harvesting more feed, particularly poorer quality grass and forbs than some others in the herd. So are these cows deemed "not feed efficient" because they harvest more feed - even if that feed would otherwise be wasted or left ungrazed as it is by some of their herd mates who would rather lose condition than forage aggressively?

How would you test if the progeny are efficient on pasture? Let's first look at the feedlot test. The animals eating out of GrowSafe bunks must consume the same feed as every other calf. Thus, the feed must be pelleted, high concentrate or all forage. Otherwise, one calf might sort the feed and only eat one type, such as all concentrates. The GrowSafe system is a bunk that sits on weigh bars. A weight is taken almost continuously to determine how many grams of feed "disappears" while one and only one calf is at the bunk. There is a reader in the bunk that reads the EID tag of the calf. In some cases, such as at MU, there are also scales at the water tank that determine how much water the calf consumes each day. It weighs the calf while at the water tank. In this way, in a research setting, lots of data can be collected which includes how much feed and water is consumed each day, when the calf eats and how many times it eats. It can even help determine when a calf is sick and may eventually be used to give oral medication to a calf in its water when it comes to the water tank. Research shows the amount of feed consumed each day can vary a lot by each calf. Because of the costs of this system, it is found mostly in research but there are several cattle producers using it. I would think someone has tested progeny in a concentrate as well as roughage diet but have not seen the data. As a side note, one university has modified it to test sheep!!

The problem on pasture is that it is a little more complicated to determine how much each specific cow is eating. In addition, if the calves are tested during the growing season as opposed to after the first frost (about when stockpiled fescue stops growing), then you will probably want a back fence so they don't consume forage regrowth that was never measured.

So one option would be to divide the pasture into cells where one cell holds calves from one sire group. From a pure experimental standpoint, this would not be good as researchers would prefer to have multiple cells for one sire group so they could say that in general, sire 1's calves are better than sire 2's calves on average across a variety of pastures. Anyway, let's just use one cell for one sire group. In the east that sire group could be small, maybe 6-10 head and the cell would have to have enough forage to last through the test. Depending on the length of the test, the time of year, the number of calves and if you are going to let them eat on pasture where they have already consumed forage, this cell might only need to be 5-10 acres. More animals in a group makes it easier to measure forage disappearance. If the cell is too big, then you have a problem in that the quality and quantity of forage might vary a lot between groups and necessitate the need for multiple cells for each sire group.

The type of animals that are measured might be progeny from weaning to yearling time. I guess it could be done with older animals but you would want to compensate for the growth of the calf and probably changes in body condition score.

That might be a long answer to your question but should illustrate how complicated it might be to collect the data on forage. Some folks might claim their range will handle more cows than in the past and say it is due to improved FE of the cows. However, the range conditions might have gotten better, the cows might be a little smaller and milk less and they might be raising a smaller calf. I don't have any idea.

Others might simply say it doesn't matter; they have the right ranch finance structure (Ranching for Profit), the right marketing (Cornerstone Marketing), the right stockmanship (Bud Williams, Richard and Tina, Dylan Biggs), the right lease structure (Greg Judy), the right MIG (Jim Gerrish, Fred Martz) the right behavior of eating weeds (Kathy Voth) and the list goes on and on. And I am not putting down any of those I just mentioned. I have learned from all of them and more. The point is gathering FE data on pasture is probably a bit complicated and is not a silver bullet to making money.


df,
would you be lecturing something along these lines to your mushy -minded students, or are you just being sarcastic above?
Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Semen Auction   

Back to top Go down
 
Semen Auction
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 2 of 3Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 Similar topics
-
» Semen tests?
» Public Auction
» Public Auction

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Keeney`s Corner :: Advertise :: For Sale-
Jump to: