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PatB



Posts : 335
Join date : 2010-09-25
Age : 54
Location : Turner, Maine

PostSubject: NBCEC website    Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:46 am

Those interested in genomics and current research might want to check out this site.

http://www.nbcec.org/

You might want to check out the below site and watch some of the video's before genomic testing. I reccomend videos by Dr. Matt Spangler and Dr. Alison Van Eenennaam for 2011 and 2012.

http://www.beefefficiency.org/marcmtgjune12.html

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Kent Powell



Posts : 443
Join date : 2010-09-24
Location : SW Kansas

PostSubject: Re: NBCEC website    Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:27 am

Pat,

What can I learn from Genomic testing?
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PatB



Posts : 335
Join date : 2010-09-25
Age : 54
Location : Turner, Maine

PostSubject: Re: NBCEC website    Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:38 am

Kent Powell wrote:
Pat,

What can I learn from Genomic testing?

Kent

At this point in time and considering your herd is not mainstream not much more then parentage with any reliability most likely. The potential is there but may not be realized in the angus breed due to the AAA's current policy on genomic raw data. It is hard to conduct meaningful research (big picture) if one does not have large pieces of the puzzle to be assembled and looked at. The research into fertility and other hard to measure traits may benefit the commercial producer in selecting replacement females.
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Tom D
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Posts : 443
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Age : 39
Location : Michigan

PostSubject: Re: NBCEC website    Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:06 pm

Mr. Bates,

I tried to read your aforementioned information but after a few minutes my eyes glazed over, my penis shriveled up, and I developed a facial twitch. I fear that there may be something wrong with me; perhaps a genetic defect??? Could you recommend a lab where I could get tested?

TD, defective and defecting.
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Grassfarmer



Posts : 660
Join date : 2010-09-27
Location : Belmont, Manitoba, Canada

PostSubject: Re: NBCEC website    Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:38 pm

PatB wrote:

Kent

At this point in time and considering your herd is not mainstream not much more then parentage with any reliability most likely.

And if your herd is close bred at all they can't even sort out the parentage with any reliability.
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Kent Powell



Posts : 443
Join date : 2010-09-24
Location : SW Kansas

PostSubject: Re: NBCEC website    Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:19 pm

Pat,

Then shouldn't the stipulation be IF you are breeding for the mainstream Here is the chance to find a diamond in your goats derrier for the economical price of __$?
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PatB



Posts : 335
Join date : 2010-09-25
Age : 54
Location : Turner, Maine

PostSubject: Re: NBCEC website    Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:41 pm

Tom D wrote:
Mr. Bates,

I tried to read your aforementioned information but after a few minutes my eyes glazed over, my penis shriveled up, and I developed a facial twitch. I fear that there may be something wrong with me; perhaps a genetic defect??? Could you recommend a lab where I could get tested?

TD, defective and defecting.

The local VD clinic Very Happy Very Happy
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MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 3816
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: NBCEC website    Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:23 am

PatB wrote:
Kent Powell wrote:
Pat,

What can I learn from Genomic testing?

Kent

At this point in time and considering your herd is not mainstream not much more then parentage with any reliability most likely. The potential is there but may not be realized in the angus breed due to the AAA's current policy on genomic raw data. It is hard to conduct meaningful research (big picture) if one does not have large pieces of the puzzle to be assembled and looked at. The research into fertility and other hard to measure traits may benefit the commercial producer in selecting replacement females.

why do we need new data when breeders won`t apply the simple principles that already exist? oh that`s right, to create a new rarity percentile to sell something for more than it is worth...
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PatB



Posts : 335
Join date : 2010-09-25
Age : 54
Location : Turner, Maine

PostSubject: Re: NBCEC website    Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:18 am

MKeeney wrote:
PatB wrote:
Kent Powell wrote:
Pat,

What can I learn from Genomic testing?

Kent

At this point in time and considering your herd is not mainstream not much more then parentage with any reliability most likely. The potential is there but may not be realized in the angus breed due to the AAA's current policy on genomic raw data. It is hard to conduct meaningful research (big picture) if one does not have large pieces of the puzzle to be assembled and looked at. The research into fertility and other hard to measure traits may benefit the commercial producer in selecting replacement females.

why do we need new data when breeders won`t apply the simple principles that already exist? oh that`s right, to create a new rarity percentile to sell something for more than it is worth...

Will it be the rare outlier or average animal that has more value? It depends on what the animal is used for in my opinion.
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MVCatt



Posts : 112
Join date : 2010-09-24
Age : 43
Location : SW Penn

PostSubject: Re: NBCEC website    Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:41 am

PatB wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
PatB wrote:
Kent Powell wrote:
Pat,

What can I learn from Genomic testing?

Kent

At this point in time and considering your herd is not mainstream not much more then parentage with any reliability most likely. The potential is there but may not be realized in the angus breed due to the AAA's current policy on genomic raw data. It is hard to conduct meaningful research (big picture) if one does not have large pieces of the puzzle to be assembled and looked at. The research into fertility and other hard to measure traits may benefit the commercial producer in selecting replacement females.

why do we need new data when breeders won`t apply the simple principles that already exist? oh that`s right, to create a new rarity percentile to sell something for more than it is worth...

Will it be the rare outlier or average animal that has more value? It depends on what the animal is used for in my opinion.

Yes...Outlier for sales. Average for breeding.
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MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 3816
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: NBCEC website    Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:24 pm

PatB wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
PatB wrote:
Kent Powell wrote:
Pat,

What can I learn from Genomic testing?

Kent

At this point in time and considering your herd is not mainstream not much more then parentage with any reliability most likely. The potential is there but may not be realized in the angus breed due to the AAA's current policy on genomic raw data. It is hard to conduct meaningful research (big picture) if one does not have large pieces of the puzzle to be assembled and looked at. The research into fertility and other hard to measure traits may benefit the commercial producer in selecting replacement females.

why do we need new data when breeders won`t apply the simple principles that already exist? oh that`s right, to create a new rarity percentile to sell something for more than it is worth...

Will it be the rare outlier or average animal that has more value? It depends on what the animal is used for in my opinion.

what`s the prepotency of an outlier Pat? what are breeds for Pat...to change into other breeds?
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larkota



Posts : 294
Join date : 2010-09-23
Age : 58
Location : Kimball South Dakota

PostSubject: Re: NBCEC website    Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:35 pm

Pat tired of your BS.
go sell it on disadvantage. sure to find someone there that thinks your right
If a bull is worth collecting it is worth testing for known testable genetic challenges

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MKeeney
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Posts : 3816
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: NBCEC website    Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:56 pm

larkota wrote:
Pat tired of your BS.
go sell it on disadvantage. sure to find someone there that thinks your right
If a bull is worth collecting it is worth testing for known testable genetic challenges


a bigger question is what makes a bull worth collecting?
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Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: NBCEC website    Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:28 pm

After 84 yrs of linebreeding for a single trait YW. The line one herefords have not used Char, Cih Hol, or any other breed as some have and they can predict YW with DNA 7% more often than you can by buying a black and polled cow at the sale barn. Pat maybe in your kids lifetime or your grand kids lifetime they will reach a acc worthy of 10% Acc. untill then why waste your money.
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Kent Powell



Posts : 443
Join date : 2010-09-24
Location : SW Kansas

PostSubject: Re: NBCEC website    Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:10 pm

Did you leave Ayrshire out on purpose?
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Guest



PostSubject: Re: NBCEC website    Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:53 pm

Kent Powell wrote:
Did you leave Ayrshire out on purpose?

Thats the problem with posting on here, someone will catch everything. Laughing Laughing
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MKeeney
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Posts : 3816
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: NBCEC website    Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:59 pm

I`m going for wall hanger status here...

promoters promise a brighter future; tru-line offers a better now
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Kent Powell



Posts : 443
Join date : 2010-09-24
Location : SW Kansas

PostSubject: Re: NBCEC website    Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:39 pm

I'd rather have a Larson Wallhanger than a Harvey Wallbanger!
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Tom D
Admin


Posts : 443
Join date : 2010-09-25
Age : 39
Location : Michigan

PostSubject: Re: NBCEC website    Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:05 pm

MKeeney wrote:
I`m going for wall hanger status here...

promoters promise a brighter future; tru-line offers a better now

I think the wall must be getting pretty full by now; as wallhangers lose their rarity, they lose their value too. Besides, openly going for wallhanger status is like giving yourself a nickname.

Sincerely, Ace
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jonken



Posts : 112
Join date : 2011-12-17
Location : nemo

PostSubject: Re: NBCEC website    Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:11 pm

[quote="Tom D"]
MKeeney wrote:
I`m going for wall hanger status here...

promoters promise a brighter future; tru-line offers a better now

I think the wall must be getting pretty full by now; as wallhangers lose their rarity, they lose their value too. Besides, openly going for wallhanger status is like giving yourself a nickname.

Sincerely, Ace[/quote


THATS' right MAVERICK . GOOSE or is it GEESE
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jonken



Posts : 112
Join date : 2011-12-17
Location : nemo

PostSubject: Re: NBCEC website    Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:24 am

PatB wrote:
Kent Powell wrote:
Pat,

What can I learn from Genomic testing?

Kent

At this point in time and considering your herd is not mainstream not much more then parentage with any reliability most likely. The potential is there but may not be realized in the angus breed due to the AAA's current policy on genomic raw data. It is hard to conduct meaningful research (big picture) if one does not have large pieces of the puzzle to be assembled and looked at. The research into fertility and other hard to measure traits may benefit the commercial producer in selecting replacement females.

What a crock ..... Kents' herd is mainstream and he knows their parents .What potential and at whos' cost ? The LARGE PIECES have been there for decades .....no one takes the time to see the completed puzzle PRIOR to forcibly connecting the pieces . It is damn hard to look at the assembled puzzle when there is still a piece under the chair cushion . As I wait for the research into fertility and OTHER hard to measure traits may our bulls genome carry our herd to the next generation . Jon
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PatB



Posts : 335
Join date : 2010-09-25
Age : 54
Location : Turner, Maine

PostSubject: Re: NBCEC website    Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:38 am

jonken wrote:
PatB wrote:
Kent Powell wrote:
Pat,

What can I learn from Genomic testing?

Kent

At this point in time and considering your herd is not mainstream not much more then parentage with any reliability most likely. The potential is there but may not be realized in the angus breed due to the AAA's current policy on genomic raw data. It is hard to conduct meaningful research (big picture) if one does not have large pieces of the puzzle to be assembled and looked at. The research into fertility and other hard to measure traits may benefit the commercial producer in selecting replacement females.

What a crock ..... Kents' herd is mainstream and he knows their parents .What potential and at whos' cost ? The LARGE PIECES have been there for decades .....no one takes the time to see the completed puzzle PRIOR to forcibly connecting the pieces . It is damn hard to look at the assembled puzzle when there is still a piece under the chair cushion . As I wait for the research into fertility and OTHER hard to measure traits may our bulls genome carry our herd to the next generation . Jon

Jonken

When I said Kent's herd is not mainstream I was referring to Kent not imbibing in the latest and greatest AI sire of the month. The training data for the current commercially available tests came from a small number of animals relative to the breed diversity. The farther the animal being tested for genomic prediction is from the training animals set the harder it is to predict the animals genomic merit with the current test. The major problem is no one entity has been able or willing to collect all the major pieces of the puzzle. Several breeds may be on the right genomic discovery track for their breed by collecting and analyzing the raw genomic data and phenotype data on all animals the breeders submit for testing. Iowa state may have a more accurate genomic prediction for angus then the commecial test since they based theirs off of 3500 angus AI sires. UC DAvis in California has been conducting research into fertility and other traits of interest to commercial producers. They have found that females have partial Y chromosome material in their genetic make up are will not mostly likely get pregnant. The researchers have identified other areas of interest for more carry study.

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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: NBCEC website    Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:20 am

I guess you`ve done your whole herd Pat...? you know, the old self responsibilty thing ...something as important as this...
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PatB



Posts : 335
Join date : 2010-09-25
Age : 54
Location : Turner, Maine

PostSubject: Re: NBCEC website    Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:54 am

MKeeney wrote:
I guess you`ve done your whole herd Pat...? you know, the old self responsibilty thing ...something as important as this...

I have not completed testing the herd for genetic challenges at this point. I will test another group this fall and there is a certian group that will not get tested as no offspring are kept only sold as heavy weight feeders. If I had kept a DNA sample on a home raised sire it would saved me testing 10 animals. All bulls used are tested free of known testable genetic defects or descendant of tested free animals. I have tested the bull battery the last 3 years with Igenity genomic test but have decided not to use the igenity 384 test in the future as it is a dead end. The 50k test may hold promise but the AAA current policy on genomic data reduces the value of the test as the raw genomic data is not being used for research and validation by the AAA or Academia.
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Hilly



Posts : 368
Join date : 2010-09-24
Location : Sylvan Lake, Alberta

PostSubject: Re: NBCEC website    Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:11 am

PatB wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
I guess you`ve done your whole herd Pat...? you know, the old self responsibilty thing ...something as important as this...

I have not completed testing the herd for genetic challenges at this point. I will test another group this fall and there is a certian group that will not get tested as no offspring are kept only sold as heavy weight feeders. If I had kept a DNA sample on a home raised sire it would saved me testing 10 animals. All bulls used are tested free of known testable genetic defects or descendant of tested free animals. I have tested the bull battery the last 3 years with Igenity genomic test but have decided not to use the igenity 384 test in the future as it is a dead end. The 50k test may hold promise but the AAA current policy on genomic data reduces the value of the test as the raw genomic data is not being used for research and validation by the AAA or Academia.

I must be getting squeamish in my old age, I almost can’t watch... Mind you I have never been this close before, so only now did I notice the Cutting Edge is serrated.
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