Keeney`s Corner

A current and reflective discussion of cattle breeding from outside the registered mainstream
 
HomeUsergroupsRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 what true line means to you?

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 20 ... 38  Next
AuthorMessage
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: what true line means to you?   Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:51 pm

Tom D wrote:
LCP wrote:
Like the Good Book says, not everyone can be an eye, or a foot, or and ear, because without each part, the body ceases to function well, if at all. It's refreshing to meet people who are just fine being an ear or and eye or a foot, and are committed to being the very best eye/ear/foot they can be.

Bootheel's quite happy just being a dick.

All parts are essential Tom, be it an ass or a dick, and as this place and the legacy of it, is to consort with asses, I wear the title with honor and pride.


Bootheel, undefined
Back to top Go down
Tom D
Admin


Posts : 482
Join date : 2010-09-25
Age : 38
Location : Michigan

PostSubject: Re: what true line means to you?   Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:04 pm

I'll be the nose, just don't cut me off to spite your face.

TD, wondering if Ben came up with any more good stuff while riding around on his mountain today.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: what true line means to you?   Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:53 pm

Tru-line means education trumps marketing. It means thinking in terms of concepts. It means finding our limits. It means unlimited possibility.


Ben, In the vicinity of a couple of fellas who make thinking hard at times.
Back to top Go down
MVCatt



Posts : 114
Join date : 2010-09-24
Age : 43
Location : SW Penn

PostSubject: Re: what true line means to you?   Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:27 pm

Keep'em coming Ben cheers !
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: what true line means to you?   Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:35 pm

Bootheel wrote:
Tom D wrote:
LCP wrote:
Like the Good Book says, not everyone can be an eye, or a foot, or and ear, because without each part, the body ceases to function well, if at all. It's refreshing to meet people who are just fine being an ear or and eye or a foot, and are committed to being the very best eye/ear/foot they can be.

Bootheel's quite happy just being a dick.

All parts are essential Tom, be it an ass or a dick, and as this place and the legacy of it, is to consort with asses, I wear the title with honor and pride.


Bootheel, undefined

That title of consorting with asses was well earned by most of us here and is as you say Joe worn with pride like a badge of Honor. I can see the post on old 4.9 as i write Keeney and his Asses cheers cheers
Back to top Go down
Grassfarmer



Posts : 714
Join date : 2010-09-27
Location : Belmont, Manitoba, Canada

PostSubject: Re: what true line means to you?   Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:33 pm

MKeeney wrote:

..as for next year, I learning to hummmm O Canada Smile

They play that in Kentucky too scratch wow, I didn't know we were so revered cheers cheers
Back to top Go down
http://www.luingcattle.com
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4007
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: what true line means to you?   Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:43 pm

here`s a good definition of what tru-line isn`t...and why it can be "organized"...

At some point I would hope we will elect Board of Directors for the governing of the AAA to allow it's membership to be managers of the Genetics their own herd and destination of it's managed program.
Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
EddieM



Posts : 648
Join date : 2010-09-24
Location : South Carolina

PostSubject: Re: what true line means to you?   Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:16 pm

MKeeney wrote:
EddieM wrote:
I think it is an expression and effort of personal disclipine and focus to breed animals to a more useful, economically successful and consistant type and function.

I believe the big jimmer is committed to those goals...

Then knowing that, the big jimmer is in good company. cheers
Back to top Go down
Tom D
Admin


Posts : 482
Join date : 2010-09-25
Age : 38
Location : Michigan

PostSubject: Re: what true line means to you?   Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:02 pm

Ben Loyning wrote:
Tru-line means education trumps marketing. It means thinking in terms of concepts. It means finding our limits. It means unlimited possibility.


Ben, In the vicinity of a couple of fellas who make thinking hard at times.



Ben.... you are so wise.



Back to top Go down
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4007
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: what true line means to you?   Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:08 pm

more calf from less cow more often..

Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
Dylan Biggs



Posts : 382
Join date : 2011-03-07

PostSubject: Re: what true line means to you?   Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:58 pm

Tru-Line from my current understanding is a simplified breeding system for the production of a consistent end product achieved by the crossing of prepotent inbred parental lines. The parental lines established and maintained by persistent, consistent selection for specific line associated functional traits using close breeding within closed populations to concentrate and fix required funtional traits.

Back to top Go down
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4007
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: what true line means to you?   Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:18 am

[quote="Dylan Biggs"]Tru-Line from my current understanding is a simplified breeding system for the production of a consistent end product achieved by the crossing of prepotent inbred parental lines. The parental lines established and maintained by persistent, consistent selection for specific line associated functional traits using close breeding within closed populations to concentrate and fix required funtional traits.

green as in go Smile
Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4007
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: what true line means to you?   Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:11 pm

so we have Tru-Line defined...
the principles were actually not so simple after all, but surely yet, the real difficulty is in the application...

so how are you applying the principles? tell us about your "closed herd" aspirations, and the characteristics you hope to fix...how would your population be used in a tru-line system?
Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4007
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: what true line means to you?   Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:01 pm

MKeeney wrote:
so we have Tru-Line defined...
the principles were actually not so simple after all, but surely yet, the real difficulty is in the application...

so how are you applying the principles? tell us about your "closed herd" aspirations, and the characteristics you hope to fix...how would your population be used in a tru-line system?
I guess I loaded these questions as heavy as Brian did to start the thread...so I`ll begin ...I only have two closed populations...the longest running is ten years now, and actually the selection decisions , which occur very rarely due to bare existence numbers, are under the control of Victorio Flores. These are not cattle, but a herd of Boer goats that commenced with 6 does and one buck... about everytime I gleefully think they will soon be extinct, a doe will have a set of twins...there have been few harvested, and carcass quality is never an issue as jalapena and hotter peppers oblitirate any taste deficiencies on contact...
Sheep from Eddie are concluding their second closed year only; and are so far ahead in prolificy that a few females have been sold, and there are males that need eaten..
I have no cattle populations, though I have had a few "projects" over the years...enough so, that I have dispersed a couple here and there...enough for tonight; too much chopped corn has passed my eyes today with $8 marked on every grain and blade ...how to get that back with cattle?
Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
MVCatt



Posts : 114
Join date : 2010-09-24
Age : 43
Location : SW Penn

PostSubject: Re: what true line means to you?   Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:10 pm

Currently using two brothers on my black commercial cows. I'll use what Larry laid out in Truline to eventually get 3/4 sibs. After that I hope to close it down to 5 cows, using the rest of the herd for testing or outcrossing. Ohh hell...I only wanna get into this TruLine thing to use for myself...not sure I'll ever get away from the commercial thing. I believe in Truline because I think it's the closest you can get to having it all.
Back to top Go down
jonken



Posts : 115
Join date : 2011-12-17
Location : nemo

PostSubject: Re: what true line means to you?   Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:40 am

MKeeney wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
so we have Tru-Line defined...
the principles were actually not so simple after all, but surely yet, the real difficulty is in the application...

so how are you applying the principles? tell us about your "closed herd" aspirations, and the characteristics you hope to fix...how would your population be used in a tru-line system?
I guess I loaded these questions as heavy as Brian did to start the thread...so I`ll begin ...I only have two closed populations...the longest running is ten years now, and actually the selection decisions , which occur very rarely due to bare existence numbers, are under the control of Victorio Flores. These are not cattle, but a herd of Boer goats that commenced with 6 does and one buck... about everytime I gleefully think they will soon be extinct, a doe will have a set of twins...there have been few harvested, and carcass quality is never an issue as jalapena and hotter peppers oblitirate any taste deficiencies on contact...
Sheep from Eddie are concluding their second closed year only; and are so far ahead in prolificy that a few females have been sold, and there are males that need eaten..
I have no cattle populations, though I have had a few "projects" over the years...enough so, that I have dispersed a couple here and there...enough for tonight; too much chopped corn has passed my eyes today with $8 marked on every grain and blade ...how to get that back with cattle?


Humble ACCECPTANCE . there CERTAINLY has not been any hotter pepper than you Mike for a TRULINE system . Hopefully ,,,,,, ALL of US have heeded Larry's remarks and kept some of our plans to our selves . I believe only a few would understand anyway ...... My self included ( of not understanding ) . Jon
Back to top Go down
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4007
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: what true line means to you?   Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:09 am

W.T wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
so we have Tru-Line defined...
the principles were actually not so simple after all, but surely yet, the real difficulty is in the application...

so how are you applying the principles? tell us about your "closed herd" aspirations, and the characteristics you hope to fix...how would your population be used in a tru-line system?

Well Mike now that i know most of you, maybe i need to start coming out of my shell just a bit? Laughing Twisted Evil All i ever wanted to do was be a cattle breeder and in the last 20 years i have taken steps to conclude that dream. working in big ranch country for the last 35yrs has given me a very good education on to just what can screw up a cattle herd overnight with a management change or a genetic change. Since 1985 my dream was to have small cows that could raise a large calf. My breeding project is not quite complete but getting very close. what i have is quite a few 3/4 to 7/8 sisters and close cousins that i have bred. Sometimes i look out and wonder just what the hell am i doing. But most of the time i am secure in what I have done and where I am going. Inbreeding is not for everyone and requires a lot of patience. I have made more mistakes than one should ever be allowed to make in one lifetime, by buying what was POPULAR or VALUABLE. Now my focus is clear and I soon will have a nice herd of close bred cows that I can outcross on almost any breed i choose or even within a breed to produce seedless fruit. The Ironic think i see is how many cow line;s disapear and how just one seems to have become dominate. This may have been by choice or was it just what worked. as i sometimes cannot be sure i did not choose her type or did her type just adapt where the others didn't. I ask myself these questions all the time and before KEENEYS CORNER i was afraid to ask any one for advice or there opinion and I have been reluctant to ask even this bunch because I just didn't know any of you. I will try and get some pictures of what I have done but they are not pretty and some will think i am nutts. but oh well, maybe we all are or we wouldn't be here. W.T

separating one`s self from the quo requires some individual creativity that leads to a self-reliant, even defiant, attitude Smile

Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4007
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: what true line means to you?   Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:09 am

jonken wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
so we have Tru-Line defined...
the principles were actually not so simple after all, but surely yet, the real difficulty is in the application...

so how are you applying the principles? tell us about your "closed herd" aspirations, and the characteristics you hope to fix...how would your population be used in a tru-line system?
I guess I loaded these questions as heavy as Brian did to start the thread...so I`ll begin ...I only have two closed populations...the longest running is ten years now, and actually the selection decisions , which occur very rarely due to bare existence numbers, are under the control of Victorio Flores. These are not cattle, but a herd of Boer goats that commenced with 6 does and one buck... about everytime I gleefully think they will soon be extinct, a doe will have a set of twins...there have been few harvested, and carcass quality is never an issue as jalapena and hotter peppers oblitirate any taste deficiencies on contact...
Sheep from Eddie are concluding their second closed year only; and are so far ahead in prolificy that a few females have been sold, and there are males that need eaten..
I have no cattle populations, though I have had a few "projects" over the years...enough so, that I have dispersed a couple here and there...enough for tonight; too much chopped corn has passed my eyes today with $8 marked on every grain and blade ...how to get that back with cattle?



Humble ACCECPTANCE . there CERTAINLY has not been any hotter pepper than you Mike for a TRULINE system . Hopefully ,,,,,, ALL of US have heeded Larry's remarks and kept some of our plans to our selves . I believe only a few would understand anyway ...... My self included ( of not understanding ) . Jon

that you are doing is more important than what you are doing...
Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
Bob H



Posts : 292
Join date : 2011-02-17
Location : SW Idaho

PostSubject: Re: what true line means to you?   Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:49 pm

What trueline means to me is a line of cattle that breed true to what they are promoted to be at least 85% of the time and also will reproduce themselves the same percentage.

Bob H
Back to top Go down
Larry Leonhardt



Posts : 131
Join date : 2011-08-10

PostSubject: Re: what true line means to you?   Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:51 am

It has been informative for me to read the comments from about 18 different breeders publicly expressing their interest and thoughts under this new topic.......a relatively small group but about 1800% more than before when there was only one. What I learned that is so positive about this small group of exceptionally decent, moral and independent thinkers is that it would be both impossible and detrimental to organize such a group.

The cattle industry is full of many different organizations who ultimately are either directly or indirectly financially supported by all of us as part of our culture whether we eat beef or not . Being an independent conservative tightwad, I've grown to be an anti-supporter of organizations whose primary purpose is to generally serve themselves. We do that well enough by ourselves Smile Organizations become combative battlegrounds.....E pluribus unum, I simply prefer the option of people working together and debating ideas voluntarily while preserving their own independence.

When Mike began KC, he said "
The only rule we will need here is the
Golden Rule".

LL
Back to top Go down
jonken



Posts : 115
Join date : 2011-12-17
Location : nemo

PostSubject: Re: what true line means to you?   Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:57 am

larkota wrote:
anybody care to tell us all what you think?

Larkota , This one question has been as troubling as any for myself . However my torment with TRULINE has never been about what I think, but rather its philosophy ..... at first glance it seems overwhelming , as well it should . Then , the author's words direct your attention to the future . I strongly feel it is a mindset . And the following quote describes what TRULINE means to me . Jon

" A Society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in . "--- Greek Proverb

(may I be the first to omit old men from the quote )
Back to top Go down
EddieM



Posts : 648
Join date : 2010-09-24
Location : South Carolina

PostSubject: Re: what true line means to you?   Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:32 pm

Larry Leonhardt wrote:
It has been informative for me to read the comments from about 18 different breeders publicly expressing their interest and thoughts under this new topic.......a relatively small group but about 1800% more than before when there was only one. What I learned that is so positive about this small group of exceptionally decent, moral and independent thinkers is that it would be both impossible and detrimental to organize such a group.

The cattle industry is full of many different organizations who ultimately are either directly or indirectly financially supported by all of us as part of our culture whether we eat beef or not . Being an independent conservative tightwad, I've grown to be an anti-supporter of organizations whose primary purpose is to generally serve themselves. We do that well enough by ourselves Smile Organizations become combative battlegrounds.....E pluribus unum, I simply prefer the option of people working together and debating ideas voluntarily while preserving their own independence.

When Mike began KC, he said "
The only rule we will need here is the
Golden Rule".

LL

"...it would be both impossible and detrimental to organize such a group."

Thank goodness, I was afraid I was going to have to start paying annual dues to the Club of the Independents! clown

Back to top Go down
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4007
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: what true line means to you?   Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:54 pm

Closer breeding is a basic of the TruLine concept....so...let`s quantify rather than hypothesize what Tru-Line means to you...

1. would closer breeding cause you to buy from a breeder who close breeds versus one who does not?

2. how would you determine who is a line breeder and who is not?

3. how would you differentiate the level of inbreeding between bulls in a linebreeders herd ?

4. Once determined, would you pay more for a more highly inbred bull?

5. If closer breeding doesn`t influence your buying decisions, would you pay the same for crossbred bulls as outcrossed bulls within a breed registry? why, or why not?

6. If you won`t pay more, why the hell am I doing this?

7. So we need to promote closer breeding in order to sell it competitively? What is the factual proof you will offer to confirm the benefit?

Dylan, in the lesson for Jan 22 below, Inbreeding and neutral evolution, http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucbhdjm/courses/b242/InbrDrift/InbrDriftPP.pdf , is what I was trying to teach Larry Wink in the car this summer on the way to Jack`s...to no avail Smile

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucbhdjm/courses/b242/timetab.html
Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
MVCatt



Posts : 114
Join date : 2010-09-24
Age : 43
Location : SW Penn

PostSubject: Re: what true line means to you?   Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:57 pm

MKeeney wrote:
Closer breeding is a basic of the TruLine concept....so...let`s quantify rather than hypothesize what Tru-Line means to you...

1. would closer breeding cause you to buy from a breeder who close breeds versus one who does not?

2. how would you determine who is a line breeder and who is not?

3. how would you differentiate the level of inbreeding between bulls in a linebreeders herd ?

4. Once determined, would you pay more for a more highly inbred bull?

5. If closer breeding doesn`t influence your buying decisions, would you pay the same for crossbred bulls as outcrossed bulls within a breed registry? why, or why not?

6. If you won`t pay more, why the hell am I doing this?

7. So we need to promote closer breeding in order to sell it competitively? What is the factual proof you will offer to confirm the benefit?

Dylan, in the lesson for Jan 22 below, Inbreeding and neutral evolution, http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucbhdjm/courses/b242/InbrDrift/InbrDriftPP.pdf , is what I was trying to teach Larry Wink in the car this summer on the way to Jack`s...to no avail Smile

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucbhdjm/courses/b242/timetab.html

Mike,
I might be a little while trying to digest this one. I do love how you're not afraid to just throw it out there...even if LL scolds you for it Laughing .
Back to top Go down
R V



Posts : 36
Join date : 2010-10-04

PostSubject: Re: what true line means to you?   Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:24 am

quote="MKeeney"]Closer breeding is a basic of the TruLine concept....so...let`s quantify rather than hypothesize what Tru-Line means to you...

1. would closer breeding cause you to buy from a breeder who close breeds versus one who does not?

Maybe... Do they have the traits that are important to me and are they prepotent for those traits? Where are the parents and the progeny or siblings? If so, then yes. Closer breeding does not necessarily mean better breeding.

2. how would you determine who is a line breeder and who is not?

For me, a line breeder that I am interested in purchasing from has been "practicing" on his or her closed herd for 20+ years. It takes time to learn the pro's and con's of your cattle. It doesn't take a breeder to get progeny from mating close relatives. Any of us can do that, but can we stay in business and "improve" our cattle?

3. how would you differentiate the level of inbreeding between bulls in a linebreeders herd ?

Does it really matter? Not being factitious, I just really don't know how much inbreeding is optimal.

4. Once determined, would you pay more for a more highly inbred bull?

Maybe, but not right now. I don't know where optimal is and I can breed "Les's" offspring to "More" later.

5. If closer breeding doesn`t influence your buying decisions, would you pay the same for crossbred bulls as outcrossed bulls within a breed registry? why, or why not?

Wouldn't buy either at this time as I don't a have a need nor an interest at this time. If there is a breed specific terminal trait, I would use the outcrossed bulls within the breed, but that is just me.

6. If you won`t pay more, why the hell am I doing this?

If your business is profitable and you are having fun, why not?

7. So we need to promote closer breeding in order to sell it competitively? What is the factual proof you will offer to confirm the benefit?

Shoshone Angus/LL, Victor Domino/Danny Miller, Line one/Gene Meitler, etc.

Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: what true line means to you?   

Back to top Go down
 
what true line means to you?
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 2 of 38Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 20 ... 38  Next
 Similar topics
-
» what true line means to you?
» When you use a true line for outcrossing
» Spiritual Enlightenment & the Hand
» Can the length of the life line predict 'longevity'?
» What Does Broken Life Line Indicate?

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Keeney`s Corner :: Tru-Line :: Tru-Line-
Jump to: