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 A Tale of Two Calves

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Hilly



Posts : 406
Join date : 2010-09-24
Location : Sylvan Lake, Alberta

PostSubject: Re: A Tale of Two Calves   Wed Nov 17, 2010 10:51 am

RobertMac wrote:
EddieM wrote:
I don't think that we are talking late puberty, just a slower maturing to final size.
That is probably my problem...not using the same definitions. As for growing to final size, my bulls don't reach final size until 3 or 4...cows probably about the same...I don't push them with high quality feed sources. As for reaching puberty to breed, I had three heifers 2 years ago to breed at 9 months...at least one of their bull mates had reached puberty.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing or indifferent?

That happens here as well and can be frustrating from my poor management stand point Embarassed .

But should one select for it and if so what in the spherical analogy will you give up. At some point there will be an optimum for your operation what selection criteria would one use to stay there....your environment, did you have a good year two years ago... do you seek and use that young bull as I would assume he has a well functioning endocrine system.

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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: A Tale of Two Calves   Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:16 am

Hilly wrote:
RobertMac wrote:
EddieM wrote:
I don't think that we are talking late puberty, just a slower maturing to final size.
That is probably my problem...not using the same definitions. As for growing to final size, my bulls don't reach final size until 3 or 4...cows probably about the same...I don't push them with high quality feed sources. As for reaching puberty to breed, I had three heifers 2 years ago to breed at 9 months...at least one of their bull mates had reached puberty.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing or indifferent?

That happens here as well and can be frustrating from my poor management stand point Embarassed .

But should one select for it and if so what in the spherical analogy will you give up. At some point there will be an optimum for your operation what selection criteria would one use to stay there....your environment, did you have a good year two years ago... do you seek and use that young bull as I would assume he has a well functioning endocrine system.

Gelbvieh cross heifers always showed early puberty here; and were very inclined to be open as cows...maybe feed; mayber fertility...anyway, I view early puberty as...early puberty...and nothing more
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: A Tale of Two Calves   Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:44 am

grabbed a few more pics yesterday of the dis-favored sire group just to show the bull sires the same kind consistently...




we`ll follow these in time; not sure I have a heifer by the bull in the fall babies...the top linebred Shoshone calf will likely be kept a bull

off thread subject, but I did come across the cow whose son is our most promising Model B prospect slated for heavy in our paradigm of "types"...pointing her out to blow away the Pharo BS that you need little cows to "flesh"...what is neccessary is guts and capacity relative to mature size

her retained calf, an outlier from the Model A selection paradigm of 45 lb yearling weight epds, weighed 738 @weaning...20 months old now; pictures soon
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RobertMac



Posts : 377
Join date : 2010-09-28
Location : Mississippi, USA

PostSubject: Re: A Tale of Two Calves   Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:34 am

MikeK wrote:
...anyway, I view early puberty as...early puberty...and nothing more
Early puberty is one indicator of endocrine function...that's more than nothing.
Is later puberty an indicator of flawed endocrine function? Not necessarily, but most all 'flawed' endocrine function will be later puberty.

Tom Lasater...we lose some good ones, but we get all the lemons.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: A Tale of Two Calves   Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:53 am

but he hasn`t run out of lemons, has he?
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RobertMac



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Location : Mississippi, USA

PostSubject: Re: A Tale of Two Calves   Mon Nov 22, 2010 2:43 pm

but who will?
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: A Tale of Two Calves   Mon Nov 22, 2010 3:02 pm

RobertMac wrote:
but who will?
I finally decided to study, rather than read Larry`s summation of breeding; I find it very thorough...; and in my analysis and application, it calls for stabalization at optimum and harmonious levels...
I have come to believe the phenotypic selection criteria self-governs the level of inbreeding or degree of prepotency; that production levels are self-governed by the environment; that milk levels and carcass values are self-governed by their effect on composition and that composition has the greatest impact on functional reproductivity. So improving prepotency of composition once identified seems to be ‘priority 1′ at ANY preferred production level.” - Larry Leonhardt
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PostSubject: Re: A Tale of Two Calves   Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:18 pm


I have come to believe the phenotypic selection criteria self-governs the level of inbreeding or degree of prepotency; that production levels are self-governed by the environment; that milk levels and carcass values are self-governed by their effect on composition and that composition has the greatest impact on functional reproductivity. So improving prepotency of composition once identified seems to be ‘priority 1′ at ANY preferred production level.” - Larry Leonhardt


This has to be my new favorite, and most pleasing to read, on this site so far. Thank you.
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Mean Spirit



Posts : 321
Join date : 2010-09-26

PostSubject: Re: A Tale of Two Calves   Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:47 pm

RobertMac wrote:
MikeK wrote:
...anyway, I view early puberty as...early puberty...and nothing more
Early puberty is one indicator of endocrine function...that's more than nothing.
Is later puberty an indicator of flawed endocrine function? Not necessarily, but most all 'flawed' endocrine function will be later puberty.

Tom Lasater...we lose some good ones, but we get all the lemons.

Why isn't early puberty considered abnormal? I'm certain early puberty is considered abnormal in human kids.

http://www.aafp.org/afp/990700ap/209.html

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MikeJ



Posts : 18
Join date : 2010-09-25
Location : central Montana

PostSubject: Re: A Tale of Two Calves   Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:12 pm

.


Last edited by MikeJ on Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: A Tale of Two Calves   Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:41 pm

dwight@steadfastbeef.com wrote:

I have come to believe the phenotypic selection criteria self-governs the level of inbreeding or degree of prepotency; that production levels are self-governed by the environment; that milk levels and carcass values are self-governed by their effect on composition and that composition has the greatest impact on functional reproductivity. So improving prepotency of composition once identified seems to be ‘priority 1′ at ANY preferred production level.” - Larry Leonhardt


This has to be my new favorite, and most pleasing to read, on this site so far. Thank you.

Classic Leonhardt writing...I would want to say it like this..."can you get past pretty to instill prepotency"...and since most can`t, I could just skip the remainder Smile
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trevorgreycattleco

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Age : 42
Location : central Ohio exactly the center. stuck in the middle

PostSubject: Re: A Tale of Two Calves   Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:31 pm

If I could breed or aquire prepotent cows would I be of real concern of their "look". I think not. Shouldn't that take care of itself?
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: A Tale of Two Calves   Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:45 am

trevorgreycattleco wrote:
If I could breed or aquire prepotent cows would I be of real concern of their "look". I think not. Shouldn't that take care of itself?
I believe so...provided at least someone else felt the same way; so you had a potential buyer ...
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