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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: most productive cow   Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:35 pm

I`m putting this pic up for Jim Hudson...Jim, you can reply and give us whatever details you desire...or none at all; because the picture speaks volumes...

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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: most productive cow   Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:38 pm

ok DV, JackMc, BobH and other prudent observers of cows over time...how early can you ascertain mature teat size and even...maybe...udder shape?
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jhudson



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PostSubject: Most Productive   Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:16 pm

MK, Thanks. This cow is our most productive. She is 14 and has had 13 good calves. Never a problem. She has bull this year out of her paternal grandsire. Thanks again. Jim
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PostSubject: Re: most productive cow   Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:21 pm

Nice cow Jim I would like to see more of those you have hidden. Laughing Laughing
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slim



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Join date : 2010-11-17
Age : 55
Location : eastern wash.

PostSubject: Re: most productive cow   Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:00 am


Mike, We got rid of the poor producing cows a while back. No pictures available of them. They were 1,600 lbs.+, bad udders, poor feet, or low fertility. The first cow pictured is about 1,300lbs., is very fertile, has a great udder, very quiet disposition, and never fails to wean a better than average calf. Here is a picture of a 3 year old cow who is a very average producer so far.
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slim



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PostSubject: Re: most productive cow   Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:08 am


Here is a picture of the 13391905 (first cow) taken yesterday. I think it does her a little more justice.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: most productive cow   Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:45 am

slim wrote:

Here is a picture of the 13391905 (first cow) taken yesterday. I think it does her a little more justice.

fits the "form" I`m looking for better for sure Slim Smile ...but there will always be exceptions to the rule...are we breeding for exceptions to the rule, or expectations of the rule?
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: most productive cow   Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:22 pm

Upon reflection I have a less productive cow, indeed there is a whole famn damily of them. One of the first heifers I bought here seems to have founded a dynasty of uselessness but craftily concealed it as "bad luck" incidents spread out over the years until it has come to a head these last couple of years.

The matriarch now 10 years old, getting shipped next week.



Record
1st year - reared 1P heifer
2 aborted calf
3 reared steer
4 reared heifer which never got in calf
5 reared heifer which lost it's 1st calf, fostered another and was shipped open in the fall
6 reared 35W heifer which is on 2nd calf doing OK
7 reared steer
8 reared poor calf due to long battle with scours
9 lost calf due to long battle with scours

Her daughter 1P



Daughter 1P record
1st year - reared bull
2 aborted calf
3 reared 29U heifer - my worst cow - more on her below
4 reared heifer whose first calf died, fostered another, assisted to suckle as a second calver
5 reared heifer - vet assist as a heifer, resulting in crippled calf
6 reared heifer ready to breed this year (can hardly wait Rolling Eyes )
7 heifer calf, temporarily abandoned at birth resulting in a raven pecking a hole in it's back.

My worst cow, getting shipped next week.



29U record
1st year - reared heifer, shipped poor quality
2 - calf died of pneumonia September (intended to ship cow in fall but forgot to)
3 - calf died at 2 days likely due to injuries occurred when it was born - cow was knocking it over as it tried to stand. Got mastitis after the calf died causing the udder mess you see.


35W cow that's rearing her 2nd calf successfully (so far)



This makes it sound like my herd is a management disaster plagued by all kinds wreck but in fact it isn't - losing calves to scour, vet assists, raven attacks, assisted suckling etc typically happen to @1% of the herd each year - it wasn't until I went through last night and noted these down that I realized most of these incidents in the entire herd in recent years have been from the one cow family. It must be more than bad luck surely? I know they are big headed, big eared, bigger shouldered cattle than I usually have but are they really such a non-maternal type to justify this kind of performance ? I started off really liking this family as they bred me heifers consistently in the early years when I wasn't getting many heifers. This is an instance where the "one slip up and they are gone" rule would have paid off in spades. The economic cost of buying and maintaining this cow family has been huge.

GF - setting the bar higher on lower production


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chocolate cow



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PostSubject: Re: most productive cow   Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:23 am

I sent Mike some pictures of what I thought were least productive cows, in my herd and to my way of thinking. I believe there are more ways for a cow to be "least productive" than to be big & fat & produce a half-starved calf. What I saw in my pictures were cows that can't maintain their weight while nursing a calf. The calf looks good but the cow is putting so much of herself into the calf she probably won't breed back, especially with the summer we're having. I look at the calf she raises but at the same time, she has to take care of herself to ensure she can breed back otherwise, we all lose. I'm now faced with the probability of early weaning simply to allow these cows time to regain condition going into winter. To me, that's a least productive cow.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: most productive cow   Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:40 am

chocolate cow wrote:
I sent Mike some pictures of what I thought were least productive cows, in my herd and to my way of thinking. I believe there are more ways for a cow to be "least productive" than to be big & fat & produce a half-starved calf. What I saw in my pictures were cows that can't maintain their weight while nursing a calf. The calf looks good but the cow is putting so much of herself into the calf she probably won't breed back, especially with the summer we're having. I look at the calf she raises but at the same time, she has to take care of herself to ensure she can breed back otherwise, we all lose. I'm now faced with the probability of early weaning simply to allow these cows time to regain condition going into winter. To me, that's a least productive cow.

I`ll get that series of pics put up...yes, to be productive a cow must get bred back...and to be productive, a cow must have feed commensurate with her production potential; that part is primarily management, not genetic... good discussion awaits Smile
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Gus



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PostSubject: Re: most productive cow   Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:58 pm

Gus wrote:

a 2000 model

12 years has taken it toll, never had a pretty udder but calves never had a problem nursing. tried to get her to hold her head up but she said if that was the case I could just take a picture of her butt.
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Gus



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PostSubject: Re: most productive cow   Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:04 pm


This is my least productive, not that she doesn't raise a good calf, but they just seem to have the bad luck of dieing, raised 2 loss 3, for the record all that lived were heifers all that die were bulls. will be shipped directly.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: most productive cow   Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:49 am

Gus,
she looks like a maternal club calf prospect Smile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctm9MxsixDw&feature=relmfu
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chocolate cow



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PostSubject: Re: most productive cow   Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:13 am

" to be productive a cow must get bred back...and to be productive, a cow must have feed commensurate with her production potential; that part is primarily management, not genetic..."

Mike, those cows are in a section of grass. I've culled to where there is now 10.5 acres to a cow. 8 acres to a cows is the norm around here. The problem is, there are only ponds on the north half and they've dried up. There are two windmills on the south half. Bovine mentality won't allow them to graze out of sight of water. You can see a line of demarcation in the pasture. Some are looking good with a good calf. Some aren't. Drouth offers another form of selection.

If a person has used bulls that bred high milk & growth into the daughters, it was initially a management error but then became genetic. I won't haul hay 70 miles to support cows that are products of poor genetic design.
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PostSubject: Re: most productive cow   Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:37 pm

chocolate cow wrote:
" to be productive a cow must get bred back...and to be productive, a cow must have feed commensurate with her production potential; that part is primarily management, not genetic..."

Mike, those cows are in a section of grass. I've culled to where there is now 10.5 acres to a cow. 8 acres to a cows is the norm around here. The problem is, there are only ponds on the north half and they've dried up. There are two windmills on the south half. Bovine mentality won't allow them to graze out of sight of water. You can see a line of demarcation in the pasture. Some are looking good with a good calf. Some aren't. Drouth offers another form of selection.

If a person has used bulls that bred high milk & growth into the daughters, it was initially a management error but then became genetic. I won't haul hay 70 miles to support cows that are products of poor genetic design.

I gotta get the desktop functioning to show the pics....the opening line in my current little speech is management trumps genetics everytime in profitability importance...wish that wasn`t the case; then our "genetics" could be worth a larger portion of the pie...
Drought creates a lot of hauling neccessities...cows, feed, or both...change in genetics? I doubt it...
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PostSubject: Re: most productive cow   Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:56 pm

cc`s cow pics she sent..in the order I "like" them...






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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: most productive cow   Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:14 pm

CC, I'm interested in what the sire of the last cow looked like. Was it like any of these types?
















How would this beauty work for you?








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chocolate cow



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PostSubject: Re: most productive cow   Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:58 pm

Picture #1 and #3 are the same cow. #1 and #5 are half sisters. Those cows were bought in a "sire-identified" group at a registurd breeders sale. There were 12 in the group. Those two are the only ones left. They are 2006 models. You do the math on that one! They are daughters of this bull: 13443806 Tokach Top Honor. The other two pictures, #2 and #4 are from my bulls which were Alliance sons. #2 is a 2008 cow and #4 is a 2009.

Those cows actually look better in the pictures than they do standing in the pasture. They are why my thoughts were "least productive" cows looked like the ones I've got. Not the fat cow that raised a half starved calf. The fat cow will sell well, these cows would need bottomless creep feeders.

My plan is to sell a majority of these cows when the calves are weaned off them. I'm basically starting over because I can't afford to buy the quality of feed these cows require.

It's a tough lesson to learn. Most never will. I didn't realize what I was breeding into my cows. I never thought about my environment and what those genetics would require.

It rained this morning in that pasture. A wonderful rain.
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PostSubject: Re: most productive cow   Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:11 pm

I had 5 calves and 4 kids born today. One of the cows was a former spring/summer calver that slipped to fall. She calved before half of the summer calvers this year. I guess if I was a purist, she would have been culled last year. But, now she has gained 2 plus months of time, I guess her fertility stars have increased. No frozen ears yet, even though it was a chilly 84 today, burrrr. As I ramble on I am wondering if she is now a ''most productive cow''. Probably just poor management all around, by limiting breeding seasons. Some gain, some lose, some stay the same, and then they do the hokey pokey and the turn it all around. That's what its all about.


Bootheel, toot toot
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: most productive cow   Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:23 pm


This would be the Tokach bull?
He looks kinda like this bull to my eye with a bit of the plainness of the Jimmers bull thrown in for good measure.

I just don't understand how the shape of that last cow you pictured from the hook bones back could come from bulls looking like these - it seems so holstein in shape.
The weird looking cow I posted the picture of is the mother of the bull above by the way. Supposed to be the "next great thing" - Argentine genetics. Rolling Eyes
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chocolate cow



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PostSubject: Re: most productive cow   Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:36 pm

Grassy, I never looked at Top Honor's pedigree...until now. He's a +30 on milk. Would that contribute to the Holstein appearance of the #5 cow?
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PostSubject: Re: most productive cow   Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:03 am

Now Grassy did you have to post that pic of ole peanutbutter??????? Now if you want some semen on him I know just who to call?????????? affraid affraid
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