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df



Posts : 613
Join date : 2010-09-28

PostSubject: Re: Another new guy   Wed May 16, 2012 9:16 am

Will wrote:
DF, read a couple of your storied in Gelbvieh World. Liked them. Got to know Donny Schiefelbein really well. He developed the Balancer program. Gave a lot of thought to re-joining and registering my cattle again. Did not because if a 75 Yearling EPD was good a 100 yearling EPD had to be better. What a joke. I could never have done what I did using Association EPD's. I would of had to turn my herdbulls every year just to get the high EPD numbers every year just like the A.I. guys still do! Bull of the month club is not for me!

Seems like that would be using EPDs for promotion instead of breeding.
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Grassfarmer



Posts : 850
Join date : 2010-09-27
Location : Belmont, Manitoba, Canada

PostSubject: Re: Another new guy   Wed May 16, 2012 10:27 am

There are several big outfits up here rearing hybrids. One I know runs 1800 cows and markets 3-400 bulls a year, many straight bred but also many hybrids. Had one of their hybrid bulls once a "maternal Sim Angus" type - calves looked great up to weaning, gangbusters. Should have sold them then because when they hit a year old they fell to bits - went all directions, big, ugly, plain, fat, small, maternal, terminal. Doesn't surprise me now as I realize they should all have been treated terminal. Just another marketing con, retaining the heterosis in the "seed stock" herd to boost their bull performance and marketing stuff that doesn't work in the real world. They even print their own in herd "pedigree" certificates on the crossbreds to satisfy buyers wanting the security blanket of a papered animal. The power of advertising though - great what you can achieve when you are an oil baron with a purebred cattle hobby.
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Dylan Biggs



Posts : 392
Join date : 2011-03-07

PostSubject: Re: Another new guy   Wed May 16, 2012 2:15 pm

Will wrote:
Judas, how did I earn the name Haysuess. I like it. I call you Judas because you said twice you saw soft and when everyone else made fun of me you all of a sudden did not see soft. Not many things worse than a Judas. Right MK? I do not drive our sprayer. My son does. I haul water and help fill the sprayer. We both like new things and farming is new for us. Son just put mapping in the sprayer. Unreal. 3 Grand. Map the field and it shows you where to drive. Did I say unreal. Son really likes technology. Really good at it to. Will add auto boom, auto boom shut off, auto steer and more than likely a DVD player to watch movies. Cab and air also. Never owned a new pickup. Never been into pickups. More the Sam Walton type of guy. New pickups and cars are a waste of money. One word that really pisses off purebred breeders is heterosis. Two words that really piss off a purebred breeder is max heterosis. Max heterosis always get their attention. MK glad to be helping you prove your point that controlled heterosis is a valuable asset to be maximized in commerical herds instead of seedstock herds. You need all the help you can get so please explain how you are doing it. Judas a hobby is doing something you enjoy with top notch equipment and cash flowing it. More to cattle at my place than driving around in a pickup. Fence to fix, hay to cut, hay to haul, hay to feed, manure to haul, ect. ect. ect. Done that most of my life and want to do something else. What do you do for a living?

Haysuess, not earned, inspired and granted by grace of Judas. Glad you like it. Very Happy

Your Judas inspiration is another consistent example of comprehension deficient misinterpretation. I know to suggest you do some reading Will probably fall on deaf eyes, but if you were to invest a bit of time in reading my posts on advantage in reference to soft nowhere Will you find me saying I saw soft. The closest you Will come to saw is assume, which I have reposted for your convienience below.

Quote :
Originally posted by Will
[br]D Biggs, it will be interesting to find out how much ribeye I can get in my cattle and still keep them soft. Starting to see the word soft used in a lot of ads and catologs down here. It is a buzz word. No doubt about it.

Interesting for sure.[Smile]

Soft as a desciptor term and or buzz word has plenty of room for interpretation. As such I am not sure how consistent or accurate the application will be. Seems the more popular a term becomes the more it is indiscriminantly used as simply a marketing ploy. Bulls that are overfed appear soft, bulls that lack secondary masculine character/muscle definition can appear soft. So while I assume I undestand your definition and use of soft I am not convinced there are not better terms available to convey your meaning, terms that are less at risk of being misinterpreted and or turned into a meaningless buzz word.

Would you describe any of the bulls in the photos below as soft?

http://ranchers.net/photopost/data/500/medium/PIC_08161.jpg

http://ranchers.net/photopost/data/500/medium/PIC_4010.jpg

http://ranchers.net/photopost/data/500/medium/PIC_5056.jpg

http://ranchers.net/photopost/data/500/medium/PIC_4958.jpg

http://ranchers.net/photopost/data/500/medium/PIC_5082.JPG

http://ranchers.net/photopost/data/500/medium/PIC_1940.jpg

Soft is in the eye of the beholder, that is why there is plenty of room for interpretation. Soft is a relative term. You see your Traitmaker bull as soft. You don't want hard and you don't want mushy, but your soft might be on the hard side of my eye and my soft might be on the well done oatmeal side of your bowl, so really quite a worthless descriptor unless you and I eat a fair bit of oatmeal together. Sorry if you felt betrayed. I was hoping as invested as you are in soft that you might actually take the time and effort to explain the definition of your favorite cattle descriptor to Grassfarmer when he asked. If you would like I could assume you and I see eye to eye on soft, but after seeing Traitmaker's photo I am not sure he seems a bit under done to me.

For a living I breath air and eat oat meal.

Judas.....going back to the office.
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Dylan Biggs



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PostSubject: Re: Another new guy   Wed May 16, 2012 2:51 pm

jonken wrote:
MK glad to be helping you prove your point that controlled heterosis is a valuable asset to be maximized in commerical herds instead of seedstock herds.

Will , If you are helping MK prove his point , you should be able to define controlled heterosis . If not how are you helping MK prove his piont ? Jon[/quote]

Jon, don't hold your breath, I am still waiting on Will's response to the first questions I asked him.
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Will



Posts : 220
Join date : 2012-04-17

PostSubject: Re: Another new guy   Wed May 16, 2012 9:34 pm

Jeez, Mk said I was helping him make a point. I am clueless what the heck he means, but then again what's new! Whoops had that wrong.


Last edited by Will on Wed May 16, 2012 10:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Another new guy   Wed May 16, 2012 9:37 pm

well, the secret reason is blown...I told you I couldn`t help but love the guy; he does get a few things right Smile

Will said @ Advantage...
Angus2, you have got to remember Sugarsprings is dumber than a mud fence!
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jonken



Posts : 141
Join date : 2011-12-17
Location : nemo

PostSubject: Re: Another new guy   Wed May 16, 2012 9:50 pm

Will wrote:
Jeez, Mk said I was helping him point a point. I am clueless what the heck he means, but then again what's new!

So Will you just climbed aboard MK's train not knowing his point and started pulling the whistle chain . What else are you clueless about ? Hope I read that right . Jon
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Will



Posts : 220
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PostSubject: Re: Another new guy   Wed May 16, 2012 9:59 pm

Judas, would Haysuess be related to Dr. Suess? Dr. Suess makes me think of green eggs and ham, which makes me think of hogs, which makes me think of LL's quote on hogs, muscle and maternal. Mistake hog producers made was when they added the extra muscle they took all the lard out. Need a bit of lard for the added muscle to be maternal.
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Will



Posts : 220
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PostSubject: Re: Another new guy   Wed May 16, 2012 10:06 pm

I did not climb on MK's train. We are discussing our breeding programs. I had hoped he made a Sim-Angus bull I could use. Maybe MK thought I would climb aboard his train and I wish I could because I have a lot of respect for a guy that tells mainstream and the AAA to go fly a kite.
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jonken



Posts : 141
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PostSubject: Re: Another new guy   Wed May 16, 2012 11:18 pm

Will wrote:
Judas, would Haysuess be related to Dr. Suess? Dr. Suess makes me think of green eggs and ham, which makes me think of hogs, which makes me think of LL's quote on hogs, muscle and maternal. Mistake hog producers made was when they added the extra muscle they took all the lard out. Need a bit of lard for the added muscle to be maternal.

Will , I think you misunderstood Larry's Quote . When time permits check out Reflections . So are you saying adding lard is all that is needed to be maternal ? Jon
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Another new guy   Thu May 17, 2012 6:40 am

Will wrote:
I did not climb on MK's train. We are discussing our breeding programs. I had hoped he made a Sim-Angus bull I could use. Maybe MK thought I would climb aboard his train and I wish I could because I have a lot of respect for a guy that tells mainstream and the AAA to go fly a kite.
but Will; you shouldn`t be critical of the mainstream...that`s where you get your genetics to blend...why Future Direction blood in your herd? marbling chase?
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Will



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PostSubject: Re: Another new guy   Thu May 17, 2012 7:15 am

Future Direction to me was an everything bull. His son's fit my program to a T. I always said Future Direction was a genetic freak and I was right. Wish I would of known you and LL back then. You are right about a lot of things. A while back there was a thread about genetic rustling. At first I thought the people talking about genetic rustling were wrong but after thinking about it for a while I agreed with it. Guys like LL put a tremendous amout of time and money into there program and a guy like me could buy it with the price of a herdbull. I do not blame you guys for pulling the registration papers. I would do the same thing. Maybe mainstream has a different meaning to different people!
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Dylan Biggs



Posts : 392
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PostSubject: Re: Another new guy   Thu May 17, 2012 8:08 am

jonken wrote:
Will wrote:
Judas, would Haysuess be related to Dr. Suess? Dr. Suess makes me think of green eggs and ham, which makes me think of hogs, which makes me think of LL's quote on hogs, muscle and maternal. Mistake hog producers made was when they added the extra muscle they took all the lard out. Need a bit of lard for the added muscle to be maternal.

Will , I think you misunderstood Larry's Quote . When time permits check out Reflections . So are you saying adding lard is all that is needed to be maternal ? Jon

At least he comprehended the green eggs and ham. Glad to know he reads something. Very Happy
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Grassfarmer



Posts : 850
Join date : 2010-09-27
Location : Belmont, Manitoba, Canada

PostSubject: Re: Another new guy   Thu May 17, 2012 9:34 am

Will wrote:
Future Direction to me was an everything bull. His son's fit my program to a T. I always said Future Direction was a genetic freak and I was right. Wish I would of known you and LL back then. You are right about a lot of things. A while back there was a thread about genetic rustling. At first I thought the people talking about genetic rustling were wrong but after thinking about it for a while I agreed with it. Guys like LL put a tremendous amout of time and money into there program and a guy like me could buy it with the price of a herdbull. I do not blame you guys for pulling the registration papers. I would do the same thing. Maybe mainstream has a different meaning to different people!

And wouldn't using a "genetic freak" by definition create a "fire and ice" mating or are your females also genetic freaks?
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Will



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PostSubject: Re: Another new guy   Thu May 17, 2012 10:32 am

Lighten up it was a joke! But seriously my cows are so good they might all be genetic freaks. Wink I went to OZ and looked at the oldest daughters of Future Direction 5321. Good cows. Only knock was could use a touch more performance. I think the bull 8E8 was the bull that made Future Direction the bull he was. 8E8 was also a carrier.
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Will



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PostSubject: Re: Another new guy   Thu May 17, 2012 10:35 am

DF, bingo that is the problem. In most programs EPD's are used for promotion. That's why every year they are always higher.
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Will



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PostSubject: Re: Another new guy   Thu May 17, 2012 3:53 pm

D Biggs, might want to go to page 21 of the 23 page Reflections from LL. Fourth post down!
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df



Posts : 613
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PostSubject: Re: Another new guy   Thu May 17, 2012 5:07 pm

Grassfarmer wrote:
Will wrote:
Future Direction to me was an everything bull. His son's fit my program to a T. I always said Future Direction was a genetic freak and I was right. Wish I would of known you and LL back then. You are right about a lot of things. A while back there was a thread about genetic rustling. At first I thought the people talking about genetic rustling were wrong but after thinking about it for a while I agreed with it. Guys like LL put a tremendous amout of time and money into there program and a guy like me could buy it with the price of a herdbull. I do not blame you guys for pulling the registration papers. I would do the same thing. Maybe mainstream has a different meaning to different people!

And wouldn't using a "genetic freak" by definition create a "fire and ice" mating or are your females also genetic freaks?

I remember seeing Future Direction and thinking the bull was physically pretty nice. Pretty moderate in frame and with soundness and thickness. If I did not read the name on the gate, I would have thought that is a pretty good bull but there are certainly other, more powerful bulls in the barn. Once I saw the name I was more intrigued. The reason is that this bull was complete physically and in addition had reasonable milk EPD but also could work well as a calving ease bull. He was also a leader in marbling, at that time. I had not seen any daughters. Like Will, at that time I was hoping to see a little more performance. All in all, I was pleasantly surprised that he is pretty good physically for a CE, high marbling EPD bull.

I know he was used in a few herds to make Balancers (and one huge carcass test program) and the complaint was the lack of performance.
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PostSubject: Re: Another new guy   Thu May 17, 2012 5:23 pm

MKeeney wrote:
well, the secret reason is blown...I told you I couldn`t help but love the guy; he does get a few things right Smile

Will said @ Advantage...
Angus2, you have got to remember Sugarsprings is dumber than a mud fence!

I can't pretend to say I've kept up with this topic very well. I couldn't figure out how something called "the new guy" could be on page 15 by now. As I go through everything, I have this question. The "Will" character in this novel topic is smart. He knows how to dance, shimmy, sidestep, he damn sure knows how to plant one on the cheekbone. The disappointing thing is he probably looks just like Jim Larson. It's hard to figure out how old the main character is (Will). He acts like he's about 30 but then he talks about having a son who's involved and that pushes him up to 50. My question to you MK is can a guy like Will ever set all of his baggage aside and become a truline cattle breeder? Because as I see it, a guy like Will could really roll if he got his brain straightened out.

DV on standby for certain situations, all limited.
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PostSubject: Re: Another new guy   Thu May 17, 2012 5:34 pm

df, Wasn't Future E Wreck Shun another stimulus pill?
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Dylan Biggs



Posts : 392
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PostSubject: Re: Another new guy   Thu May 17, 2012 6:35 pm

Dennis Voss wrote:
df, Wasn't Future E Wreck Shun another stimulus pill?



Hilarious!!

Thank you DV.


DB
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Dylan Biggs



Posts : 392
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PostSubject: Re: Another new guy   Thu May 17, 2012 6:39 pm

Dennis Voss wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
well, the secret reason is blown...I told you I couldn`t help but love the guy; he does get a few things right Smile

Will said @ Advantage...
Angus2, you have got to remember Sugarsprings is dumber than a mud fence!

Because as I see it, a guy like Will could really roll if he got his brain straightened out.

DV on standby for certain situations, all limited.

DB.......No hope, no longer on standby.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Another new guy   Thu May 17, 2012 6:54 pm

Dennis Voss wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
well, the secret reason is blown...I told you I couldn`t help but love the guy; he does get a few things right Smile

Will said @ Advantage...
Angus2, you have got to remember Sugarsprings is dumber than a mud fence!

I can't pretend to say I've kept up with this topic very well. I couldn't figure out how something called "the new guy" could be on page 15 by now. As I go through everything, I have this question. The "Will" character in this novel topic is smart. He knows how to dance, shimmy, sidestep, he damn sure knows how to plant one on the cheekbone. The disappointing thing is he probably looks just like Jim Larson. It's hard to figure out how old the main character is (Will). He acts like he's about 30 but then he talks about having a son who's involved and that pushes him up to 50. My question to you MK is can a guy like Will ever set all of his baggage aside and become a truline cattle breeder? Because as I see it, a guy like Will could really roll if he got his brain straightened out.

DV on standby for certain situations, all limited.

As Mean Spirit would say, if MS ever came about anymore, I`m just saying, but I think you have found{edited} a spark of potential DV...and another factor of neccessity pushing him in the Tru-Line direction will be that in order to have the components he needs to make a product, you can`t depend on the mainstream registered games breeders for what you need {future direction? ha! they name them pretty}...a man with an inquiring mind won`t be satisfied to just plant someone elses seed and harvest a grain crop...not enough challenge! just look at Hilly; seeding grain for money; breeding his own cattle for the challenge...
and Kent, maybe applied to a different thread comment, the ultimate challenge is to sell the product to a mis-understanding public...forget the bunker; keep that horse saddled; you`ve been riding for brand for as long as I have known you...ain`t no stopping us now Exclamation


Last edited by MKeeney on Thu May 17, 2012 9:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Another new guy   Thu May 17, 2012 7:13 pm

Dennis Voss wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
well, the secret reason is blown...I told you I couldn`t help but love the guy; he does get a few things right Smile

Will said @ Advantage...
Angus2, you have got to remember Sugarsprings is dumber than a mud fence!

I can't pretend to say I've kept up with this topic very well. I couldn't figure out how something called "the new guy" could be on page 15 by now. As I go through everything, I have this question. The "Will" character in this novel topic is smart. He knows how to dance, shimmy, sidestep, he damn sure knows how to plant one on the cheekbone. The disappointing thing is he probably looks just like Jim Larson. It's hard to figure out how old the main character is (Will). He acts like he's about 30 but then he talks about having a son who's involved and that pushes him up to 50. My question to you MK is can a guy like Will ever set all of his baggage aside and become a truline cattle breeder? Because as I see it, a guy like Will could really roll if he got his brain straightened out.

DV on standby for certain situations, all limited.


cheers cheers cheers cheers
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df



Posts : 613
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PostSubject: Re: Another new guy   Thu May 17, 2012 7:20 pm

Dennis Voss wrote:
df, Wasn't Future E Wreck Shun another stimulus pill?

Like 3 pages in the back of Field and Stream!!!
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