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PostSubject: Postcards of imperfections   Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:29 pm

Every now and then I get to thinking I got this deal figured out. Larry Leonhardts; Breeding Trulines For Idiots Handbook, had things simplified in my mind for purposes of application. I am constantly making mental notes of cows here falling into what I percieve as Reds, Greens, Blues, Yellows. I can seldom make any fit into the latter catergory in my mind, here.

I thought I had a sure thing for a Red here, her maternal side was about as dead on Red, for me, as they come. Her sires numbers nearly fit, except for the milk, but I thought no worries, she was similar type to her mother. Long story short, she calved yesterday. First calf heifer, looking as rung out as she has ever looked after spitting out 75 lbs of calf and a mess of amniotic fluid, and mothering more than eating.


Her udder.
[img][/img]

The rest of her on a refill mission
[img][/img]

If I come off smug on swayback cornfeds. It is only because I have had more than my share of them. At one time I would have considered her a crown jewel of personal achievement. Nowadays, I just wince.

Another less than flattering picture, for Hilly. Very Happy

[img][/img]

This one was my last whoorah into curvebender fantistico, AI vs the Bull, proven from the source of all things Good and Holy in Mainstream Bible for Idiots that don't know how to use a hammer to rebuild a carbuerator on a '69 Chevelle. Yes, More Wincing.



[img][/img]

As bad as they are, my limited knowledge of grazing practices, following the evil picpockets of Expertdom in non conventional grazing practices, they still live, and are not skin and bones. Of course if forage doesn't provide their needs, I will supplement. I have not found much correlation to puddy duddy and the lack for need for supplementation on forage that doesn't meet their nutrional requirements. So once again, I cannot agree with anyone on all things.


One two year old that may be less bad.

[img][/img]

From personal experience, and intimate knowledge with the ancestoral pool, I can nearly gaurantee she won't have an udder like the first one. We fixed the feet and the udder on the first, now we have to fix her swayback. Never done fixing.

[img][/img]

Then we may end up with six udders, or teats, or whatever a cow has these days.
[img][/img]

4 generations of cleanup bulls, and I finally filled up the udder, more than likely too much.
[img][/img]

Her sister, from her her grandma. While not as far along in pregnancy, I expect her milk and udder to be more on the level.

[img][/img]


Thats it for now. Fire away. Blow some holes in me and my theories. I got nothing to lose, but time and money. If you can save some of each, it would be just peachy.

Life is Good

Bootheel

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Dylan Biggs



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PostSubject: Re: Postcards of imperfections   Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:36 pm

Thanks for the pics Bootheal, lush greeeen grass, wow!

I wouldn't kick any of them out of my pasture, they look functional to me and some nice switches.

DB
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PostSubject: Re: Postcards of imperfections   Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:08 pm

Look good to me Bootheel. It depresses me however to think it'll be another two months before we look that green pale
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PostSubject: Re: Postcards of imperfections   Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:28 am

Joe,
you are making the fastest change in cattle I`ve seen pictured; and you don`t even have that many calves by Sniffy yet Smile ...could it be the camera man? the grass? Smile
nice sequence...
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PostSubject: Re: Postcards of imperfections   Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:48 am

How am I supposed to learn anything with a bunch of ''yes men''? I thought you guys were mean, hateful, negative, evil, toxic, against everything good an holy. But seriously, I was hoping to ''find'' the purpose of individuals in a population. The leanings of the types. I am quite confident I could produce some bona fide Red lines from the first, with the proper mating. The pictures are merely a snapshot in time, this I know, as sometimes they look worse in person, better in person, or just different. Most are presented in their best possible light, (in my familiarity with them).


Maybe it will help to say they are not Keeney influenced, or Shoshone, or Vossitized, or McNammeed, or Byggsed out, Luing's, or puddy duddy con man approved. Surely someone will point out my flaws of reasoning, flaws of the cattle, or better yet, what their best possible use of types may be.

Of course to say much of anything in the Angus breed lacks Shoshone influence, I guess I should say modern Shoshone influence. I never met or read Mike Keeney when the matings were made, so that surely helps with critism. Of course we are not seeing all of them, so that could be used against me. It is raining, I'm housebound without a wife for the past 5 days, so I could stand a good fight.


Bootheel
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PostSubject: Re: Postcards of imperfections   Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:59 am

Quote :
How am I supposed to learn anything with a bunch of ''yes men''? I thought you guys were mean, hateful, negative, evil, toxic, against everything good an holy.

OK, Joe, you asked for it. The problem with every one of these pictured cows is that they only have one udder. How do you plan to get ahead when you are at status quo?

Eddie, impressed that I can spell status quo
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Kent Powell



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PostSubject: Re: Postcards of imperfections   Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:00 pm

Beautiful.

My Cup runneth over.

Life is good.
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PostSubject: Re: Postcards of imperfections   Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:16 pm

Bootheel wrote:
How am I supposed to learn anything with a bunch of ''yes men''? I thought you guys were mean, hateful, negative, evil, toxic, against everything good an holy. But seriously, I was hoping to ''find'' the purpose of individuals in a population. The leanings of the types. I am quite confident I could produce some bona fide Red lines from the first, with the proper mating. The pictures are merely a snapshot in time, this I know, as sometimes they look worse in person, better in person, or just different. Most are presented in their best possible light, (in my familiarity with them).


Maybe it will help to say they are not Keeney influenced, or Shoshone, or Vossitized, or McNammeed, or Byggsed out, Luing's, or puddy duddy con man approved. Surely someone will point out my flaws of reasoning, flaws of the cattle, or better yet, what their best possible use of types may be.

Of course to say much of anything in the Angus breed lacks Shoshone influence, I guess I should say modern Shoshone influence. I never met or read Mike Keeney when the matings were made, so that surely helps with critism. Of course we are not seeing all of them, so that could be used against me. It is raining, I'm housebound without a wife for the past 5 days, so I could stand a good fight.


Bootheel

Re: Surely someone will point out my flaws of reasoning, flaws of the cattle, or better yet, what their best possible use of types may be.

Joe, I would be more than happy to oblige a friend in need, first you have to give me some reasoning to work with!

Dammit man complete at least one reasoned thought.

As far as the cattle go, the cut away fore udder attachment on your rung out heifer, I had a few cows like that once. One only produced until she was 14 and the other until she was 13, miserable wenches, so chances are the days are numbered for that long eared whirly bird of yours, at least she'll be able to keep the southern hoards of bugs off her neck and shoulders while she lasts. Is that what happens to the ears on Agnus cows once they spend enough time in that southern climate, dual purpose radiator, bug flapper, adapted ears. As far as her refill mission, the last time I saw fat deposits on a rump like that it was on a barley fed Shorthorn cow at college, shit, get that girl on a diet or she won't rebreed. She should be taking care of her newborn anyway, not stuffing her face for the camera, disgracefull!

As far as your last whoorah bender, she's a doosey, nice long tail, to bad most of it is up on her back.
Whoever that bent sire was, he sure did a good job of jacking that tail up and taking off the fly swatter, she needs one in your country for sure. You had better stop by the tail store and get a switch, coarse, by the looks of her she won't be around long anyway, I don't even think she's pregnant and even if she does manage to have one, I'll lay money she won't rebreed, rough haired masculine creature she is. When do those girls start shedding anyway?[/quote]

The less bad heifer is less bad, nice tail, a tail head a guy can live with, in good shape without carrying any suspicious fat deposits, don't see any sway in the spine, so not sure who's back you are reffering to. She's not bagging up at all yet, probably calve in the second cycle though.

Now as far as all these extra teats go, Tom D must have had something to do with that. 6 is getting up there, I had a cow with 7 she only produced till she was 15, but you got me beat on that front supernumerary teat, that's a new one on me. Three teats on the front and no bloody front quarters to go with them, nice enough looking heifer though.

Now for your future level milker, how the hell does that work, you expecting horizontal teats or what? I want to see it. At least she is staring to shed, might be because she isn't pregnant though. Don't like the looks of it, though I sure do hope she is, I want to see those horizontal teats express level milk.

DB, hoping I obliged Joe soon enough.





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PostSubject: Re: Postcards of imperfections   Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:18 am

Dylan Biggs wrote:
Bootheel wrote:
How am I supposed to learn anything with a bunch of ''yes men''? I thought you guys were mean, hateful, negative, evil, toxic, against everything good an holy. But seriously, I was hoping to ''find'' the purpose of individuals in a population. The leanings of the types. I am quite confident I could produce some bona fide Red lines from the first, with the proper mating. The pictures are merely a snapshot in time, this I know, as sometimes they look worse in person, better in person, or just different. Most are presented in their best possible light, (in my familiarity with them).


Maybe it will help to say they are not Keeney influenced, or Shoshone, or Vossitized, or McNammeed, or Byggsed out, Luing's, or puddy duddy con man approved. Surely someone will point out my flaws of reasoning, flaws of the cattle, or better yet, what their best possible use of types may be.

Of course to say much of anything in the Angus breed lacks Shoshone influence, I guess I should say modern Shoshone influence. I never met or read Mike Keeney when the matings were made, so that surely helps with critism. Of course we are not seeing all of them, so that could be used against me. It is raining, I'm housebound without a wife for the past 5 days, so I could stand a good fight.


Bootheel

Re: Surely someone will point out my flaws of reasoning, flaws of the cattle, or better yet, what their best possible use of types may be.

Joe, I would be more than happy to oblige a friend in need, first you have to give me some reasoning to work with!

Dammit man complete at least one reasoned thought.

As far as the cattle go, the cut away fore udder attachment on your rung out heifer, I had a few cows like that once. One only produced until she was 14 and the other until she was 13, miserable wenches, so chances are the days are numbered for that long eared whirly bird of yours, at least she'll be able to keep the southern hoards of bugs off her neck and shoulders while she lasts. Is that what happens to the ears on Agnus cows once they spend enough time in that southern climate, dual purpose radiator, bug flapper, adapted ears. As far as her refill mission, the last time I saw fat deposits on a rump like that it was on a barley fed Shorthorn cow at college, shit, get that girl on a diet or she won't rebreed. She should be taking care of her newborn anyway, not stuffing her face for the camera, disgracefull!

As far as your last whoorah bender, she's a doosey, nice long tail, to bad most of it is up on her back.
Whoever that bent sire was, he sure did a good job of jacking that tail up and taking off the fly swatter, she needs one in your country for sure. You had better stop by the tail store and get a switch, coarse, by the looks of her she won't be around long anyway, I don't even think she's pregnant and even if she does manage to have one, I'll lay money she won't rebreed, rough haired masculine creature she is. When do those girls start shedding anyway?

The less bad heifer is less bad, nice tail, a tail head a guy can live with, in good shape without carrying any suspicious fat deposits, don't see any sway in the spine, so not sure who's back you are reffering to. She's not bagging up at all yet, probably calve in the second cycle though.

Now as far as all these extra teats go, Tom D must have had something to do with that. 6 is getting up there, I had a cow with 7 she only produced till she was 15, but you got me beat on that front supernumerary teat, that's a new one on me. Three teats on the front and no bloody front quarters to go with them, nice enough looking heifer though.

Now for your future level milker, how the hell does that work, you expecting horizontal teats or what? I want to see it. At least she is staring to shed, might be because she isn't pregnant though. Don't like the looks of it, though I sure do hope she is, I want to see those horizontal teats express level milk.

DB, hoping I obliged Joe soon enough.






[/quote]
Dylan, if I had a medal, I'd give it too you. You pretty much nailed it, dead on. Your only disadvantage was my muddled presentation, and of course only allowing you to see part of the story. The first heifer is less than level topped, if seen in her natural state of operations. I have only had a few cows with her udder capacity, to make it to old age.

The words and pictures, don't always seem to stay where I want them, and if I ever edit them it just makes a bigger mess. The AI whoorah heifer disgusts me to no end. Steer fronted, swaybacked, no tail, no neck....nothing balanced as it should be. If she lays down, and has a calf on her own, I will be amazed. Of course her ''proven'' sire's numbers say ''I'm the commercial man's solution to calving ease'' and ''Tens of thousands of progeny don't lie". I kept two of them. The other one has zero milk, nada, zilch, and will wean off a 200 lb calf, maybe. She has a one way ticket to hamburgerville, and I doubt this one will be much different.


More latter Dylan.

Bootheel, no longer wifeless



Last edited by Bootheel on Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:35 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Hilly



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PostSubject: Re: Postcards of imperfections   Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:19 am

Joe,
I was wondering what your colors represent, I am assuming yellow is maternal with your added amount of black or white for the desired shade.

What does the red and blue represent?

You're really pushing the envelope on the less flattering pictures Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Postcards of imperfections   Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:25 am

Bootheel wrote:
Dylan Biggs wrote:
Bootheel wrote:
How am I supposed to learn anything with a bunch of ''yes men''? I thought you guys were mean, hateful, negative, evil, toxic, against everything good an holy. But seriously, I was hoping to ''find'' the purpose of individuals in a population. The leanings of the types. I am quite confident I could produce some bona fide Red lines from the first, with the proper mating. The pictures are merely a snapshot in time, this I know, as sometimes they look worse in person, better in person, or just different. Most are presented in their best possible light, (in my familiarity with them).


Maybe it will help to say they are not Keeney influenced, or Shoshone, or Vossitized, or McNammeed, or Byggsed out, Luing's, or puddy duddy con man approved. Surely someone will point out my flaws of reasoning, flaws of the cattle, or better yet, what their best possible use of types may be.

Of course to say much of anything in the Angus breed lacks Shoshone influence, I guess I should say modern Shoshone influence. I never met or read Mike Keeney when the matings were made, so that surely helps with critism. Of course we are not seeing all of them, so that could be used against me. It is raining, I'm housebound without a wife for the past 5 days, so I could stand a good fight.


Bootheel

Re: Surely someone will point out my flaws of reasoning, flaws of the cattle, or better yet, what their best possible use of types may be.

Joe, I would be more than happy to oblige a friend in need, first you have to give me some reasoning to work with!

Dammit man complete at least one reasoned thought.

As far as the cattle go, the cut away fore udder attachment on your rung out heifer, I had a few cows like that once. One only produced until she was 14 and the other until she was 13, miserable wenches, so chances are the days are numbered for that long eared whirly bird of yours, at least she'll be able to keep the southern hoards of bugs off her neck and shoulders while she lasts. Is that what happens to the ears on Agnus cows once they spend enough time in that southern climate, dual purpose radiator, bug flapper, adapted ears. As far as her refill mission, the last time I saw fat deposits on a rump like that it was on a barley fed Shorthorn cow at college, shit, get that girl on a diet or she won't rebreed. She should be taking care of her newborn anyway, not stuffing her face for the camera, disgracefull!

As far as your last whoorah bender, she's a doosey, nice long tail, to bad most of it is up on her back.
Whoever that bent sire was, he sure did a good job of jacking that tail up and taking off the fly swatter, she needs one in your country for sure. You had better stop by the tail store and get a switch, coarse, by the looks of her she won't be around long anyway, I don't even think she's pregnant and even if she does manage to have one, I'll lay money she won't rebreed, rough haired masculine creature she is. When do those girls start shedding anyway?

The less bad heifer is less bad, nice tail, a tail head a guy can live with, in good shape without carrying any suspicious fat deposits, don't see any sway in the spine, so not sure who's back you are reffering to. She's not bagging up at all yet, probably calve in the second cycle though.

Now as far as all these extra teats go, Tom D must have had something to do with that. 6 is getting up there, I had a cow with 7 she only produced till she was 15, but you got me beat on that front supernumerary teat, that's a new one on me. Three teats on the front and no bloody front quarters to go with them, nice enough looking heifer though.

Now for your future level milker, how the hell does that work, you expecting horizontal teats or what? I want to see it. At least she is staring to shed, might be because she isn't pregnant though. Don't like the looks of it, though I sure do hope she is, I want to see those horizontal teats express level milk.

DB, hoping I obliged Joe soon enough.


Dylan, if I had a medal, I'd give it too you. You pretty much nailed it, dead on. Your only disadvantage was my muddled presentation, and of course only allowing you to see part of the story. The first heifer is less than level topped, if seen in her natural state of operations. I have only had a few cows with her udder capacity, to make it to old age.

The words and pictures, don't always seem to stay where I want them, and if I ever edit them it just makes a bigger mess. The AI whoorah heifer disgusts me to no end. Steer fronted, swaybacked, no tail, no neck....nothing balanced as it should be. If she lays down, and has a calf on her own, I will be amazed. Of course her ''proven'' sire's numbers say ''I'm the commercial man's solution to calving ease'' and ''Tens of thousands of progeny don't lie". I kept two of them. The other one has zero milk, nada, zilch, and will wean off a 200 lb calf, maybe. She has a one way ticket to hamburgerville, and I doubt this one will be much different.


More latter Dylan.

Bootheel, no longer wifeless




[/quote]

Joe: Glad to hear Kathy gave you another chance. Your friend Greg
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PostSubject: Re: Postcards of imperfections   Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:04 am

Bootheel wrote:
Every now and then I get to thinking I got this deal figured out. Larry Leonhardts; Breeding Trulines For Idiots Handbook, had things simplified in my mind for purposes of application. I am constantly making mental notes of cows here falling into what I percieve as Reds, Greens, Blues, Yellows. I can seldom make any fit into the latter catergory in my mind, here.

I thought I had a sure thing for a Red here, her maternal side was about as dead on Red, for me, as they come. Her sires numbers nearly fit, except for the milk, but I thought no worries, she was similar type to her mother. Long story short, she calved yesterday. First calf heifer, looking as rung out as she has ever looked after spitting out 75 lbs of calf and a mess of amniotic fluid, and mothering more than eating.


Her udder.
[img][/img]

The rest of her on a refill mission
[img][/img]

If I come off smug on swayback cornfeds. It is only because I have had more than my share of them. At one time I would have considered her a crown jewel of personal achievement. Nowadays, I just wince.

Another less than flattering picture, for Hilly. Very Happy

[img][/img]

This one was my last whoorah into curvebender fantistico, AI vs the Bull, proven from the source of all things Good and Holy in Mainstream Bible for Idiots that don't know how to use a hammer to rebuild a carbuerator on a '69 Chevelle. Yes, More Wincing.



[img][/img]

As bad as they are, my limited knowledge of grazing practices, following the evil picpockets of Expertdom in non conventional grazing practices, they still live, and are not skin and bones. Of course if forage doesn't provide their needs, I will supplement. I have not found much correlation to puddy duddy and the lack for need for supplementation on forage that doesn't meet their nutrional requirements. So once again, I cannot agree with anyone on all things.


One two year old that may be less bad.

[img][/img]

From personal experience, and intimate knowledge with the ancestoral pool, I can nearly gaurantee she won't have an udder like the first one. We fixed the feet and the udder on the first, now we have to fix her swayback. Never done fixing.

[img][/img]

Then we may end up with six udders, or teats, or whatever a cow has these days.
[img][/img]

4 generations of cleanup bulls, and I finally filled up the udder, more than likely too much.
[img][/img]

Her sister, from her her grandma. While not as far along in pregnancy, I expect her milk and udder to be more on the level.

[img][/img]


Thats it for now. Fire away. Blow some holes in me and my theories. I got nothing to lose, but time and money. If you can save some of each, it would be just peachy.

Life is Good

Bootheel

I like your cows, Bootheel, whats the green stuff?
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PostSubject: Re: Postcards of imperfections   Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:47 pm

Hilly wrote:
Joe,
I was wondering what your colors represent, I am assuming yellow is maternal with your added amount of black or white for the desired shade.

What does the red and blue represent?

You're really pushing the envelope on the less flattering pictures Smile

I am just trying to discern the types; and their associated qualities, differences, strengths, weaknesses- as described by Mr. Leonhardt. The REDs seem to be the easiest for me to ''see''. They also seem to be what most ''want'' until they get them, and their subsequent use, for the wrong purpose leads them to dislike them. I have no ill will toward any type, if it is properly identified, and used, and predictable for its intended purpose.


Yellow, as described by Leonhardt, is fairly obvious to see in the cow form.

The other colors, being Green or Blue, or shades in between are more difficult for me. That being said, I think many of mine fall more into the Green Category, but I really don't know what a Blue is. Or they could be Orange, but from my little study and comprehension of the the color wheel, and Orange seems less predictable or complementary than a Green.


Mostly I am trying to clarify in my head, what my own types are. Lest I be reduced to turning in weights and measures to find out in ten years what they really are. If types can be identified more readily by visual appraisal, and ancestoral knowledge, it would be a helpful time saver for idiots like me.


On the lighter side of life, my wife was only gone for an educational seminar on commercial appraising, and not a get away from me Very Happy


Bootheel


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PostSubject: Re: Postcards of imperfections   Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:00 pm

Are you using red as growth? If so are your parameters your existing herd?

I’m not trying to make the simple complicated, but it would be hard for me to comment without understanding what your primary colors represent and the size of the gene pool you are selecting from for the creation of the primary colors.

For instance I didn’t start limited to my herd so my red, which does represent growth in my paint wheel and has more bone and muscle then the first heifer you pictured but functionally similar from what little one can tell from a picture.
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PostSubject: Re: Postcards of imperfections   Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:40 pm

Bootheel and Hilly all I want to know is what kind of hallucinogenics you guys are on.

All I saw was green grass and black cattle.

I see DV is already into the love drug.

DB, in the vicinity of alkaloid envy.
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PostSubject: Re: Postcards of imperfections   Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:59 pm

DB,

It’s called Tru-Line, You don’t get near as high on it as the common stuff, but not near as low either Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Postcards of imperfections   Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:10 pm

Hilly wrote:
DB,

It’s called Tru-Line, You don’t get near as high on it as the common stuff, but not near as low either Smile

A pleasant high and a nice come down, sounds good!

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PostSubject: Re: Postcards of imperfections   Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:25 pm

Hilly wrote:
Are you using red as growth? If so are your parameters your existing herd?

I’m not trying to make the simple complicated, but it would be hard for me to comment without understanding what your primary colors represent and the size of the gene pool you are selecting from for the creation of the primary colors.

For instance I didn’t start limited to my herd so my red, which does represent growth in my paint wheel and has more bone and muscle then the first heifer you pictured but functionally similar from what little one can tell from a picture.


I did not know we got to make our own color wheel. I was just basing my observations off of the color wheel outlined in Mr. Leonhardt's publications. I would just call him Larry, but I'm afraid some of the millions of visitors we get, scouring the internet for nuggetts of wisdom, just wouldn't get who Larry is.

But your theories of observation, on what these animals represent, is exactly what I was after with my incomplete thoughts. I used to complete thoughts quite well, until I got married, as my wife has a bad habit of not completing a thought. It has rubbed off. We tell each other that if it was not for our flaws, we both would have married better. So, it is, what it is. But what are they, I ask? Dennis just says he likes them. Another yes man, I presume, or maybe he just doesn't have the energy to teach.


My wife, and our incomplete thoughts, brought us to the color wheel today, and in turn to the spherical distributions. I came to the conclusion that each, without the other, is an incomplete thought. The two complement one another, in completing a definition of what a line, or individual is. I thought I had it sorted out to an understanable conclusion, after mulling it around in my mind today. It seems as I remember LL saying something on the purple blend of blues and reds one time. Besides just not wanting to be a purple cow, or having not seen one, but telling us anyhow, that he'd rather see, than be one.

I don't think the heifer you mentioned is a true red, but her pictorial pedigree, would be, or at least a large portion. She may be just an orange, or one of those fence riders, that with a little nudge could go either way. It seems as though Viking was one of those ''recessive'' for maternal bulls. But, he was classified as a Green. Yet, Titan was a Red, or at least a founder of the Reds. All my rambling has again led me to ask just what the heck is a Blue again, by the definition of LL.


Bootheel
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Dylan Biggs



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PostSubject: Re: Postcards of imperfections   Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:47 pm

Bootheel, what color would you like them to be?

The simplest, which is still difficult, is to pick the type/application you want. Stabilizing one is hard enough let alone 4. Recognize the type you want and don't waste your time with what they are as long as you know what they are not. Simplify.

Its easy for me because I am color blind.

DB, with the rainbow herd.
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PostSubject: Re: Postcards of imperfections   Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:08 am

This may require a post from Larry to sort out, but the principle I believe was that the colors directly across from one another were the most complementary and so I surmised that blue was carcass, but never actually asked.

What I had trouble keeping straight was, for the most part the model was based on paints as they are solid and light is how we see it, but there was some symbolic connections between the two with white and black that I couldn’t quite grasp.

I any case this is just the tip of the iceberg in the multiple levels of symbolism that Larry put into Tru-Line and I don’t want to pretend I have it all straight.

I didn’t mean to derail your train of thought; I just wasn’t sure how to critique your types without understanding the size of gene pool we were talking and what the colors meant to you, and even then I’m not much help.

How about, nice cattle and grass thanks for sharing... Why didn’t I think of that before?
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PostSubject: Re: Postcards of imperfections   Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:38 am

Joe,
I sent my postcard cow for the worst closebreeding imperfections can give us to the stockyard yesterday; afterall, you had said on the last visit "it was time"...and I now prefer the $900 the pair brought...the calf would have made an idea club calf...if and when he got to steer show size in two or three years, they could have shown him for years with no worry of him getting bigger...in terms of color, I decided she was a black hole, and I had tossed enough money at her...her full sibs can now claim all their family currently present with a degree of pride...
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PostSubject: Re: Postcards of imperfections   Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:06 am

Dylan Biggs wrote:
Bootheel, what color would you like them to be?

The simplest, which is still difficult, is to pick the type/application you want. Stabilizing one is hard enough let alone 4. Recognize the type you want and don't waste your time with what they are as long as you know what they are not. Simplify.

Its easy for me because I am color blind.

DB, with the rainbow herd.


Dylan, I always apprecciate your thoughts, but this line of thought, of mine, is about defining the ''type'', recoginizing what they are (by type). Not only to accurately describe them, but also for accurate selection. It may take me another 4 pages to just complete a thought.

Have you not seen the color wheel yet? or the spherical distributions? I am merely trying to plot my course on the distributions of the sphere.


Bootheel
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PostSubject: Re: Postcards of imperfections   Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:09 am

Hilly wrote:
This may require a post from Larry to sort out, but the principle I believe was that the colors directly across from one another were the most complementary and so I surmised that blue was carcass, but never actually asked.

What I had trouble keeping straight was, for the most part the model was based on paints as they are solid and light is how we see it, but there was some symbolic connections between the two with white and black that I couldn’t quite grasp.

I any case this is just the tip of the iceberg in the multiple levels of symbolism that Larry put into Tru-Line and I don’t want to pretend I have it all straight.

I didn’t mean to derail your train of thought; I just wasn’t sure how to critique your types without understanding the size of gene pool we were talking and what the colors meant to you, and even then I’m not much help.

How about, nice cattle and grass thanks for sharing... Why didn’t I think of that before?


Craig, you haven't derailed anything. This is exactly what I was after with my post. It was not about nice cows and grass, but seeing and understanding what stands before us, and what is too come.


Thanks,

Bootheel
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PostSubject: Re: Postcards of imperfections   Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:36 pm

I think your fightin your head to much on this Joe. If your own knowledge of this cow and her ancestry says red line than she is red line. Who would know that better than you. I would think you will get some red line animals that look like yellows but they are fleeting at best because of their ability to reproduce it consistently. Too much variation to be a yellow line which to me is the beauty of tru-line. To my way of thinking that's where all the variation comes from. Breeders that are breeding red line types but they get a female like yours here and all the sudden they must be a yellow line type and the distribution in the sphere explodes.

Jack, I just want to know how she got grass stains on her bag. Either she dove for a pop fly or she is just TOO SMALL!
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PostSubject: Re: Postcards of imperfections   Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:41 am

Bootheel wrote:
Dylan Biggs wrote:
Bootheel, what color would you like them to be?

The simplest, which is still difficult, is to pick the type/application you want. Stabilizing one is hard enough let alone 4. Recognize the type you want and don't waste your time with what they are as long as you know what they are not. Simplify.

Its easy for me because I am color blind.

DB, with the rainbow herd.


Dylan, I always apprecciate your thoughts, but this line of thought, of mine, is about defining the ''type'', recoginizing what they are (by type). Not only to accurately describe them, but also for accurate selection. It may take me another 4 pages to just complete a thought.

Have you not seen the color wheel yet? or the spherical distributions? I am merely trying to plot my course on the distributions of the sphere.


Bootheel

Fair enough Joe. There is no doubt that accurate selction, as accurate as possible, relative to type/function goals is the crux of the matter. If one can be clear and consistent on type in general and more specificallly consistent selecting the most balanced fertile individuals within that type category then odds over time of successfully fixing a funtional type are much improved. Over the years I have had a real struggle giving preference to a single general type, torn between the massivley rugged sires and yet being drawn to the finer more elegant almost dairy type females and thinking that one would beget the other, slowly I am realizing that the female type I prefer will require me to adjust my selection on the sire side to more cocnsistenly get what I am after. I have not yet seen the color wheel or spheroid distributions so can't be of much help using that symbolism. The other question that I have not yet definitively concluded is if there is any relative overall superiority in functional merit of the say the the beef type over the somewhat more dairy beef type, or if the eye of the selector is sharp enough, assuming the individuals are there to identify in the population to begin with in either type, that one can select for the same level of funtionality regardless. I have made assumptions in the past about types that in the end were more reflective of individual shortcomings than of type shortcomings. The other challenge for me from the standpoint of precise selection relative to type selection goals is being rather fuzzy of the boundaries between type. Where is the boundary between beef and dairy type assuming both individuals are highly functional, how beefy can the dairy type get and still remain in the dairy type category? Or how dairy can the beef type get and still remain in the beef type category and how percise does one need to be on the road to type fixation? If they are equally functional maybe not so precise but if you want cookie cutter consistency/prepotentcy then may be one could never be to precise. So Joe not sure I can be of any help. Maybe the the old functional cows identify themselves as worthy by their record and they should be chosen regardless.

DB, more questions than answers.

What is the significance of the difference in type between these two cows?
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