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df



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PostSubject: Re: Wye catalog   Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:08 pm

MKeeney wrote:
df,
I hope your students pay closer attention in class than you do...that`s been discussed several times here...in fact, there`s a chart in Reflections; read until you find it; it`ll do you good...
jonken was right...who has patience???? not I...

Because there may be new data and observations to validate different IBC than those used in the past. While there is "old" information that is given every year, the latest news is also discussed.
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PostSubject: Re: Wye catalog   Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:11 pm

df wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
df,
I hope your students pay closer attention in class than you do...that`s been discussed several times here...in fact, there`s a chart in Reflections; read until you find it; it`ll do you good...
jonken was right...who has patience???? not I...

Because there may be new data and observations to validate different IBC than those used in the past. While there is "old" information that is given every year, the latest news is also discussed.

the new technology costs too much; I did check, and thx for the connection to the right people..
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PostSubject: Re: Wye catalog   Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:48 am

copied from Advantage...fishman writes sales report with a nice flair...mk

Wye Angus held their 34th annual sale on a crisp Saturday at the farm near Queenstown, MD. Eddie Draper (Program Manager), Kevin Morgan (Herd Manager), Lisa Yoash (Administrative Assistant) and the rest of the crew put forth a nice offering of Aberdeen Angus cattle for the bidders and browsers to evaluate.

The Wye angus herd was established in 1938 by Arthur Houghton, then chief executive of Steuben Glass and James B. Lingle. It is now owned by the Univerisity of Maryland Foundation. Check out more information on the Wye angus website. I might note that Bluff View Farms began in the Angus business in 1937, by my father and grandfather.

We flew from Bloomington, IL to Reagan National in Washington, DC on Thursday evening. Our 40 minute layover in Atlanta was just enough time to get from D1 to C14 at Hatfield International Airport. Stayed in Alexandria with an old college roommate of mine. Met a number of non ag folks that were interested in discussing everything from pink slime to frozen embryos. Intelligent folks willing to ask good questions and learn about the cattle business. With good people like these willing to listen and learn, there may still be hope for the USA after all.

Dropped my friend at work (he teaches math at the Cathedral High School), set the GPS and pointed his Chrysler toward Queenstown, MD. Got to the sale site around 10:30 and conversed with folks from the Wye crew, Angus breeders from four states and auctioneer Ken Brubaker. Then headed to the pens to look at the cows. After a free hamburger lunch, we looked some more. Spent a little time with the bulls as well.

The cow/calf pairs and the registered recip group had several nice cows that would look great in the pastures near Aledo, IL. The bull numbers were down a bit from 2011. Top bulls were equal to 2012, but perhaps not as much depth from the top of the offering to the bottom when comparing the 2011 to the 2012 sale offering. Began to understand why when we looked through a group of about 60 yearling heifers. A fair bunch of the dams of the better bulls in the 2011 sale had heifers in the keeper pen. A REALLY nice group of heifers with several REALLY nice individuals. The future of the Wye cow herd looks bright!

Did not stay for the Friday night feed, as we had plans to dine in VA with my host. Probably missed some interesting conversations.

Saturday dawned clear and bright, with morning temps in the upper 40s. Ate a volume of pancakes and sausage at my friend's church and then headed back to WYE with Brian (my cattle partner) and E (the mathematician). Good crowd on hand when we arrived a bit after 10am. Looked the cows and bulls over one last time. Spoke with breeders from NY, MS, PA, CT, & MD before the sale began. An excellent lunch of Roast Beef sanwiches, Beef vegetable soup and all of the fixins was provided.

Sale began at noon with a few announcements, including the fact that Nina Houghton was in attendance. She is the widow of Arthur.

Sale order was Pairs, Heifer Recips, Bull Recips and then bulls. Brubaker cried a nice sale. Pace was perfect, not too fast and not too slow. Easter weekend may have reduced the number on the seats a bit from last year. Lots of active bidding from the seats and the phones. I believe that more cattle were bought "from the seats" in 2012 vs 2011. I think there were 20 or 30 on the conference phone call.

Averages

5 Cow calf pairs = $5980

15 Registered Angus recips with sexed pregnancies = $4920
8 Heifer = $5637
7 Bull = $4228

32 Bulls = $4283

52 Angus lots = $4629

Cow Calf Pairs
1=$6300 with bull calf to MA by phone
2=5500 with heifer calf to MA by phone
3=5000 with bull calf to SD - Pathfinder
4=7500 with heifer calf
5=5600 with nice bull calf to Bluff View Farms - Cow = WW 3 @112 - We really liked this thick made cow with a nice udder.

Registered Angus Recips
Heifers
6A=4500
6B=4000 to MS
6C=4000 to PA
7=7000 to MS
9A=6400 very nice cow to CT - Pathfinder
9B=4800 to SD
11=5900
13=7600 very nice cow to MS - Pathfinder

Bulls
8=4000 to SD
10=3400 to NC
12=4000
14A=4600
14B=4200
14C=4300 to PA
15=5100 on the phone

Bulls
16=3000 to Snake Creek, SD
17=2000 to FL
18=3250 to FL
19=4500 to FL
20=7750 4th in ring to Snake Creek, SD
21=8750 3rd in ring to Ricky Cotton, SD
22=8200 nice Churchill to Jeff Synder, NY
23=6100 to Willis Creek
24=out
25=4000 to OK by phone - 5th in ring
26=3000
27=4800 to FL - 2nd in ring
28=6000 to Shockey
29=4250 to FL
30=2800
31=6100
32=2500
33=out
34=out
35=4100 to FL
36=3600 to FL - 7th in ring
37=3300 9th in ring
38=9500 to HG Brangus - 1st in ring
39=2100
40=2200 last bull in the ring
41=4000 to FL
42=2750 fine in the pen - upset in the ring
43=4000
44=2100
45=4100 to FL
43=5000 8th in ring
47=2200
48=2500
49=5600 to FL
50=3000

Overall a good sale with bulls in everyone's price range.

Believed to be accurate, but not guaranteed.




the fishman

"Those that have must lose, for those that haven't can't."
Harry Ebeneezer Fisher
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Wye catalog   Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:10 pm

Cow calf pairs = $5980 32 Bulls = $4283

15 Registered Angus recips with sexed pregnancies = $4920
8 Heifer = $5637
7 Bull = $4228

why would females bring more at a sale than bulls? A bull can make many females in a year; a cow has a 50% chance of making one female...
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Mean Spirit



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PostSubject: Re: Wye catalog   Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:25 am

Because people are kind of slow to grasp the concept that Wye bulls make Wye females. They really like the females.... The bulls, not so much.

But tke that nice Wye cow and breed her up to the latest SAV, and watch the fireworks.

MS, in the vicinity of a mood because of tax day rapidly approaching, and I'd really like to go to Nags Head instead of straightening out my mess.
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: Wye catalog   Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:45 am

Quote :
why would females bring more at a sale than bulls?

Supply/Demand? Less cows offered than bulls?

Quote :
They really like the females.... The bulls, not so much.

Is this a result of the genetics or the criss-crossing of "maternal" to "growth"?
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PostSubject: Re: Wye catalog   Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:54 pm

EddieM wrote:
Quote :
why would females bring more at a sale than bulls?

Supply/Demand? Less cows offered than bulls?

Quote :
They really like the females.... The bulls, not so much.

Is this a result of the genetics or the criss-crossing of "maternal" to "growth"?

let`s discuss it this way...which would influence a herd more..... a bull or cow? obviously a bull......so why does a cow bring more?...back to the ole rarity game?
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: Wye catalog   Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:48 pm

MKeeney wrote:
EddieM wrote:
Quote :
why would females bring more at a sale than bulls?

Supply/Demand? Less cows offered than bulls?

Quote :
They really like the females.... The bulls, not so much.

Is this a result of the genetics or the criss-crossing of "maternal" to "growth"?

let`s discuss it this way...which would influence a herd more..... a bull or cow? obviously a bull......so why does a cow bring more?...back to the ole rarity game?

What's harder to grasp is the embryo prices: hope and change? change and hope? hope and hope? I would not expect change and change.

Eddie, not really worried, just curious about a lot of stuff, like a cow that can hunt alligators in a state that has no alligators. Must be a pretty effective predator type bovine. Somebody out to tell Troy Landry and Liz about those cows. "Choot 'em Bossy, ... Choot 'em"
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PostSubject: Re: Wye catalog   Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:00 pm

the answers lies in human study; not genetics, science, or economics...just like registration papers, a need to anchor to something bigger than one`s self....what makes a breeding animal worth more than commercial price...what it is, or what it is anchored to?
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R V



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PostSubject: Re: Wye catalog   Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:56 pm

MKeeney wrote:
Cow calf pairs = $5980 32 Bulls = $4283

15 Registered Angus recips with sexed pregnancies = $4920
8 Heifer = $5637
7 Bull = $4228

why would females bring more at a sale than bulls? A bull can make many females in a year; a cow has a 50% chance of making one female...

Just another thought... What about breeding (or flushing) said Wye cow to an available Wye bull to make several "straight Wye, but now ____" bulls to breed to. It will take a couple of more years before you can use the first bull (Only one if the calf at side is a bull.), but if the cow is the type that works well in your environment, it would allow one to maximize her use in their herd at the lowest price over time. Should have multiple bull calves over time to use to concentrate that cow and could linebreed or inbreed... I would think that a proven cow would be less of a risk for me, but I have Briann's bull to cover my cows and I can do my own ET work. Plus I have several bull calves on the ground that I want to use next. If I needed a bull, buying a bull would make more sense, but I don't understand the $$$ paid for the unborn ET calves.
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df



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PostSubject: Re: Wye catalog   Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:46 pm

MKeeney wrote:
EddieM wrote:
Quote :
why would females bring more at a sale than bulls?

Supply/Demand? Less cows offered than bulls?

Quote :
They really like the females.... The bulls, not so much.

Is this a result of the genetics or the criss-crossing of "maternal" to "growth"?

let`s discuss it this way...which would influence a herd more..... a bull or cow? obviously a bull......so why does a cow bring more?...back to the ole rarity game?

Maybe the buyer is buying time; the cow is "Wye" and can be bred to "Wye" while the Wye bull is used to make 1/2 Wye calves.

Question; when you bought cows from LL, did they cost more or less than the bulls?
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PostSubject: Re: Wye catalog   Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:03 pm

the bulls cost more relative to their commercial value...
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OAK LANE FARM



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PostSubject: Re: Wye catalog   Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:17 pm

MKeeney wrote:
copied from Advantage...fishman writes sales report with a nice flair...mk

Wye Angus held their 34th annual sale on a crisp Saturday at the farm near Queenstown, MD. Eddie Draper (Program Manager), Kevin Morgan (Herd Manager), Lisa Yoash (Administrative Assistant) and the rest of the crew put forth a nice offering of Aberdeen Angus cattle for the bidders and browsers to evaluate.

The Wye angus herd was established in 1938 by Arthur Houghton, then chief executive of Steuben Glass and James B. Lingle. It is now owned by the Univerisity of Maryland Foundation. Check out more information on the Wye angus website. I might note that Bluff View Farms began in the Angus business in 1937, by my father and grandfather.

We flew from Bloomington, IL to Reagan National in Washington, DC on Thursday evening. Our 40 minute layover in Atlanta was just enough time to get from D1 to C14 at Hatfield International Airport. Stayed in Alexandria with an old college roommate of mine. Met a number of non ag folks that were interested in discussing everything from pink slime to frozen embryos. Intelligent folks willing to ask good questions and learn about the cattle business. With good people like these willing to listen and learn, there may still be hope for the USA after all.

Dropped my friend at work (he teaches math at the Cathedral High School), set the GPS and pointed his Chrysler toward Queenstown, MD. Got to the sale site around 10:30 and conversed with folks from the Wye crew, Angus breeders from four states and auctioneer Ken Brubaker. Then headed to the pens to look at the cows. After a free hamburger lunch, we looked some more. Spent a little time with the bulls as well.

The cow/calf pairs and the registered recip group had several nice cows that would look great in the pastures near Aledo, IL. The bull numbers were down a bit from 2011. Top bulls were equal to 2012, but perhaps not as much depth from the top of the offering to the bottom when comparing the 2011 to the 2012 sale offering. Began to understand why when we looked through a group of about 60 yearling heifers. A fair bunch of the dams of the better bulls in the 2011 sale had heifers in the keeper pen. A REALLY nice group of heifers with several REALLY nice individuals. The future of the Wye cow herd looks bright!

Did not stay for the Friday night feed, as we had plans to dine in VA with my host. Probably missed some interesting conversations.

Saturday dawned clear and bright, with morning temps in the upper 40s. Ate a volume of pancakes and sausage at my friend's church and then headed back to WYE with Brian (my cattle partner) and E (the mathematician). Good crowd on hand when we arrived a bit after 10am. Looked the cows and bulls over one last time. Spoke with breeders from NY, MS, PA, CT, & MD before the sale began. An excellent lunch of Roast Beef sanwiches, Beef vegetable soup and all of the fixins was provided.

Sale began at noon with a few announcements, including the fact that Nina Houghton was in attendance. She is the widow of Arthur.

Sale order was Pairs, Heifer Recips, Bull Recips and then bulls. Brubaker cried a nice sale. Pace was perfect, not too fast and not too slow. Easter weekend may have reduced the number on the seats a bit from last year. Lots of active bidding from the seats and the phones. I believe that more cattle were bought "from the seats" in 2012 vs 2011. I think there were 20 or 30 on the conference phone call.

Averages

5 Cow calf pairs = $5980

15 Registered Angus recips with sexed pregnancies = $4920
8 Heifer = $5637
7 Bull = $4228

32 Bulls = $4283

52 Angus lots = $4629

Cow Calf Pairs
1=$6300 with bull calf to MA by phone
2=5500 with heifer calf to MA by phone
3=5000 with bull calf to SD - Pathfinder
4=7500 with heifer calf
5=5600 with nice bull calf to Bluff View Farms - Cow = WW 3 @112 - We really liked this thick made cow with a nice udder.

Registered Angus Recips
Heifers
6A=4500
6B=4000 to MS
6C=4000 to PA
7=7000 to MS
9A=6400 very nice cow to CT - Pathfinder
9B=4800 to SD
11=5900
13=7600 very nice cow to MS - Pathfinder

Bulls
8=4000 to SD
10=3400 to NC
12=4000
14A=4600
14B=4200
14C=4300 to PA
15=5100 on the phone

Bulls
16=3000 to Snake Creek, SD
17=2000 to FL
18=3250 to FL
19=4500 to FL
20=7750 4th in ring to Snake Creek, SD
21=8750 3rd in ring to Ricky Cotton, SD
22=8200 nice Churchill to Jeff Synder, NY
23=6100 to Willis Creek
24=out
25=4000 to OK by phone - 5th in ring
26=3000
27=4800 to FL - 2nd in ring
28=6000 to Shockey
29=4250 to FL
30=2800
31=6100
32=2500
33=out
34=out
35=4100 to FL
36=3600 to FL - 7th in ring
37=3300 9th in ring
38=9500 to HG Brangus - 1st in ring
39=2100
40=2200 last bull in the ring
41=4000 to FL
42=2750 fine in the pen - upset in the ring
43=4000
44=2100
45=4100 to FL
43=5000 8th in ring
47=2200
48=2500
49=5600 to FL
50=3000

Overall a good sale with bulls in everyone's price range.

Believed to be accurate, but not guaranteed.




the fishman

"Those that have must lose, for those that haven't can't."
Harry Ebeneezer Fisher

Ricky Cotton from the report is Ricky Hyland , Hyland Angus, Ramona SD who has a sale with John Cotton
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PostSubject: Re: Wye catalog   Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:43 pm

Thanks Scott, , if my name was Ricky Cotton and someone had posted incorrectly that I just paid $8750 for a bull, I would be mad as hell...
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PostSubject: Re: Wye catalog   Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:01 pm

If Wye sold their bulls with pedigrees, epds, same data as now, but without transferable registration papers, what would an $8750 bull bring? would that be a more true measure of a bulls genetic worth?
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PostSubject: Re: Wye catalog   Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:22 pm

how come Wye isn`t doing a PIC type breeding program?

http://www.pic.com/cms/USA/468.html

does PIC transfer papers? how come we don`t get to see the pedigrees? instead, they just tell what the boars or sows will do...how come the sow lines and boar lines are evaluated with different criteria?
what is it U of MO uses again in the heifer sales, DF? FRAME SCORE, PELVIC, AND EPDS...What a complete and utter failure our universities are for doing little more than following suck up traditions...RESEARCH INSTITUTIONS??? GIVE ME A BREAK... Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation
I better calm down before Miles City Wink Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Wye catalog   Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:30 pm

Genetic Improvement

A portfolio of global lines deployed to meet local market needs

PIC’s genetic improvement program utilizes the variation available in 17 different line populations worldwide. The performance of these lines, and the products derived from them, is measured in many different environments around the world, with the information collected in Genus’s proprietary genetic database, PICTraq™.

These 17 lines provide the foundation from which PIC is able to satisfy the local market requirements of pig producers and pork consumers. In addition, custom improvement programs have been developed for a number of our customers who seek further differentiation of their branded pork. Attention continues to be focused on genetic dissemination and the reduction of genetic lag which allows our customers to realize genetic value faster than ever before in their operations.

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R V



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PostSubject: Re: Wye catalog   Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:34 pm

MKeeney wrote:
If Wye sold their bulls with pedigrees, epds, same data as now, but without transferable registration papers, what would an $8750 bull bring? would that be a more true measure of a bulls genetic worth?


Wouldn't change the genetic worth, but would decrease the number of bidders and should decrease the dollar amount. Do transferable registration papers have more value/any value when different people are in charge of breeding decisions?
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PostSubject: Re: Wye catalog   Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:52 am

i wonder if there are any $8000 pic boars, or do the "pens" sell for about the same price?
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Danny Miller



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PostSubject: Re: Wye catalog   Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:28 am

MKeeney wrote:
how come Wye isn`t doing a PIC type breeding program?

http://www.pic.com/cms/USA/468.html

does PIC transfer papers? how come we don`t get to see the pedigrees? instead, they just tell what the boars or sows will do...how come the sow lines and boar lines are evaluated with different criteria?
what is it U of MO uses again in the heifer sales, DF? FRAME SCORE, PELVIC, AND EPDS...What a complete and utter failure our universities are for doing little more than following suck up traditions...RESEARCH INSTITUTIONS??? GIVE ME A BREAK... Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation
I better calm down before Miles City Wink Wink
I would rather you not calm down Mike, if I'm able to go, I expect a rant or two or three or more from you!!! cheers cheers
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whitecow



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PostSubject: Re: Wye catalog   Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:51 am

MKeeney wrote:
i wonder if there are any $8000 pic boars, or do the "pens" sell for about the same price?

The boar (or semen) doesn't cost so much. They get paid on the backend. They get 1/3 of the profit made by the progeny of their genetics.
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PostSubject: Re: Wye catalog   Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:11 am

whitecow wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
i wonder if there are any $8000 pic boars, or do the "pens" sell for about the same price?

The boar (or semen) doesn't cost so much. They get paid on the backend. They get 1/3 of the profit made by the progeny of their genetics.


I bet that method of payment would eliminate the $170,000 bulls in the beef industry...LEE Leachman figures a $index on his bulls...reckon he would take payment on the backend rather than his projected frontend...they have a history of paying on the backend; if at all....but now that they are university educational co-operators, I`m sure everything is on the up and up Smile
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chocolate cow



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PostSubject: Re: Wye catalog   Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:34 am

At the Terry Gompert dispersal sale in November, I bought a bred cow. A Lady Ida 92 of Volga. #16259914. Don't worry about the reg#.
This cow appealed to me at the sale. No other reason. I liked the way she looked. She now has a bull calf.
Here's what that $2,250 cow does for me: She is THE example of what I want to see everyday in my cows. She's a living, functioning reminder of how shitty my cows really are. I can pick her out from 1/2 mile away. She's what I'm trying to accomplish.

If others buy a cow, take her home and see what she looks like compared to Contrast, Connection, Upward, Image Maker, etc. Hopefully, they'll have that moment Idea . I won't criticize anyone for buying either a cow or bull that carries efficient genetics. I don't live in their world. It's not my job to tell them how to spend their money.
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df



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PostSubject: Re: Wye catalog   Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:09 am

MKeeney wrote:
how come Wye isn`t doing a PIC type breeding program?

http://www.pic.com/cms/USA/468.html

does PIC transfer papers? how come we don`t get to see the pedigrees? instead, they just tell what the boars or sows will do...how come the sow lines and boar lines are evaluated with different criteria?
what is it U of MO uses again in the heifer sales, DF? FRAME SCORE, PELVIC, AND EPDS...What a complete and utter failure our universities are for doing little more than following suck up traditions...RESEARCH INSTITUTIONS??? GIVE ME A BREAK... Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation
I better calm down before Miles City Wink Wink

As you know, I don't have anything to do with those heifer sales nor any influence with those that do!

Any suggestions for those involved? What should be offered to commercial buyers?
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robert



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PostSubject: Re: Wye catalog   Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:15 pm

to engage in a solution you have to admit there is a problem, most of the 'corrective' mating stuff that is going on is little more than attempting to mask the problem for one more generation until another great fixer is created from the dysfunctional material available. Most of the hype around bulls involves portraying them as the next great leap forward, into what they are not quite sure but are sure as they can be that it is 'progress'......... Rolling Eyes
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