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Bob H



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PostSubject: Re: Reflections from LL ©   Mon May 07, 2012 8:22 am

Grass farmer that is what we observed. We aslo found that both lines need to have good maternal traits ie mothering, udder quality, not to course etc.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Reflections from LL ©   Mon May 07, 2012 9:24 pm

I had to start chuckling today, when after an interesting , honest, and long chat, the Angus breeder, feeling more comfortable as we talked, mentioned PAPERS...no, I didn`t hang up, I guess I had already exhausted your minutes ...or your patience... Smile
one LL sentence is all that is neccessary...
the only thing another registered breeder can do with a Shoshone close bred bull is dilute the close breeding...and if that is going to be done before it gets to the commercial industry, the prepotency has been abused before it get`s to it`s intended source...
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PostSubject: Re: Reflections from LL ©   Mon May 07, 2012 9:56 pm

MKeeney wrote:
I had to start chuckling today, when after an interesting , honest, and long chat, the Angus breeder, feeling more comfortable as we talked, mentioned PAPERS...no, I didn`t hang up, I guess I had already exhausted your minutes ...or your patience... Smile
one LL sentence is all that is neccessary...
the only thing another registered breeder can do with a Shoshone close bred bull is dilute the close breeding...and if that is going to be done before it gets to the commercial industry, the prepotency has been abused before it get`s to it`s intended source...


What if the Shoshone bull is bred to some other tight bred ''thing'', creating the much cussed hybrid....to be bred to a differing hybrid? Is it still diluted beyond it's intended ''without papers'' purpose? Just asking, I don't know, but thought that was the point of tight breds... to be used by others, for a differing purpose. Which is completely different than con-job rarity, in my mind at least. I could be wrong, have been, and will be again.


Pedigree, papers, to most are interchangeble. Whereas the ''pedigree'' is in the name, is the new ''breed'' to me. Breed used to mean something, along the lines of papers, but now, in the ''name'' is where I want to be. Which in turn will just turn back into papers again for someone. What's the use? There is nothing new under the sun after all.

Bootheel, nevermind
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PostSubject: Re: Reflections from LL ©   Tue May 08, 2012 3:28 am

Bootheel wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
I had to start chuckling today, when after an interesting , honest, and long chat, the Angus breeder, feeling more comfortable as we talked, mentioned PAPERS...no, I didn`t hang up, I guess I had already exhausted your minutes ...or your patience... Smile
one LL sentence is all that is neccessary...
the only thing another registered breeder can do with a Shoshone close bred bull is dilute the close breeding...and if that is going to be done before it gets to the commercial industry, the prepotency has been abused before it get`s to it`s intended source...


What if the Shoshone bull is bred to some other tight bred ''thing'', creating the much cussed hybrid....to be bred to a differing hybrid? Is it still diluted beyond it's intended ''without papers'' purpose? Just asking, I don't know, but thought that was the point of tight breds... to be used by others, for a differing purpose. Which is completely different than con-job rarity, in my mind at least. I could be wrong, have been, and will be again.


Pedigree, papers, to most are interchangeble. Whereas the ''pedigree'' is in the name, is the new ''breed'' to me. Breed used to mean something, along the lines of papers, but now, in the ''name'' is where I want to be. Which in turn will just turn back into papers again for someone. What's the use? There is nothing new under the sun after all.

Bootheel, nevermind

I think we`re on the same page Joe...we tighten the breeding, for commercial producers, not registered breeders, to unleash ...yelp, it would be nice to have "pedigree in the name" status...some do already..."a Wye cow"...but is that deserved? Are they that much alike? if so, why "she`s sired by the $250,000 Lodge of Wye"? still the need to promote individuals instead of populations...pedigree in a name, no public papers, takes away the individual emphasis and puts it on the population...can buyers accept that? I doubt it anytime soon..
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Larry Leonhardt



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PostSubject: Re: Reflections from LL ©   Mon May 21, 2012 7:04 am

Will wrote:

When I was a purebed Gelbvieh breeder a loonngg time ago, had bred my commerical herd up to mostly Purebred Gelbvieh. Half bloods were great. Three quarter bloods had throw aways. Purebreds made me puke.
Mk, never been a Leachman cooperator. I am not much of a marketer but the bulls are always good enough to sell theirselves. Was a student of Jim Leachman though. Never missed his sale. Master breeder and Master marketer. Only person I ever met that knew and I mean KNEW bloodlines and genetics and could market them and I mean really market them. Everyone else I have met in this bull business could do only one or the other. I buy most of my herdbulls from the people that know genetics and fall short on marketing just like me. I really think LL knows genetic big time, but falls short on marketing.

I think there are several issues that need to be quantified. For example, how important is maternal heterosis, how will a commercial producer get replacements, and how easy is the system to manage? In additiion, how does that breeding progam affect marketing? I would think a commercial producer needs to answer these questions, at a minimum, to know what is right for him.

Everything I own I owe to the bull business. It has been great. Use to be a lot of fun but since getting nailed by the genetic defect mess its been more like work. Been really lucky I have always had a job that I enjoyed for the most part. I like doing new things and farming is new. My son also likes new things. Farming is a whole new game. Technology to the max. Auto steer to Ravens to mapping. We really like it. Beats the heck out of argueing if there is such a thing as heterosis. Life is about stages. I am just entering a new stage. Have a great day! I know I will. {end of Will`s quote}

Thanks a million Will for being so successful at stirring the pot, I thoroughly enjoy the many pages of your realistic participation here on Keeney's Corner. I may be wrong but I think Gelbvieh's originated as a German derivative of Simmentals, a country reknown for its mad scientists who were also going to develop a super race of blond, blue eyed, ideal people who would rule the world - However, natural law demonstrates how radicals tend to do themselves in over time.

Not being a student of Mr. Jim Leachman, I do owe him my undying gratitude for the opportunity to learn from him what not to do....to do the opposite of what he did lest I follow him down that same path to bankruptcy along with his unknowing customers. Mr. Leachman was also a Master spender, especially good at doing things in a big way with other peoples money.....commonly known as investors. I do fall short on traditional marketing schemes, never was very good at salesmanship.....and it took me 50 years from being dumber than a mud fence to begin to better understand the simplicity of genetics that we tend to make so complicated. So rather than offering high expectations with grandiose proclamations of super outliers, I abandoned public advertising nearly 30 years ago from being a somebody to become somewhat of a reclusive hermit living in my cave carving my journey on the walls of time.

Today I simply market the whole genetic truth, which is actually only a half-truth. Establishing genetic truths has nothing to do with monetary values - it has everything to do with the random half of the genotype that is transmitted. And so I sell my functional purebreds, who incidentally don't make me puke, at about half the price of traditional mainstream registered prices, prices which incidentally make me wanna puke......and I finally learned not to spend more than I make chasing lofty unachievable ambitions.......no more depressing, expensive disappointments for me or my customers.

A few Lingle Wyisms for contemplation: 1) "Crossbreds cannot improve themselves, only by the infusion of homogeneous STRAINS (purebred) can crossbreds be improved". 2)"Proven purebreds provide the only real 'shortcut' to genetic improvement, that path is far more economical than investing a fortune throughout the 96 years required to achieve 98% purity by selecting through 16 generations of crossbreds". You may get all of the desired traits in one ideal animal, yet that animal may lack the ability to reproduce them. I see little difference between mating fire and ice whether it is within or across breeds. Of great interest while at this summer's meeting at the Miles City Research Center, ask why the Line One Hereford people saw a necessity to develop a theoretical 3-breed composite ideal Montana Range Cow......and what is their selection criteria.......and will it take 16 generations of selection to achieve 98% purity.....or ask what percent of purity has been achieved in the Line One's since 1938.....or ask why the Line One's are not anxiously pursued by commercial producers everywhere. The AAA promotes the great variation within the Angus breed, and rightly so, by offering something for everyone one, at least the breed will not become extinct.

"How important is maternal heterosis" - Brainwashed by circumstantial research data, we have been led to believe that "maternal heterosis" is essential to improve production values. What has been overlooked along the way is net value and repeatability. Argueing over if there is such a thing as heterosis, science tells us that heterosis is non-additive......so in reference to your statement that the half bloods were great, I think a better term for heterosis would be "temporary complimentarity". MARC says we must maintain 75% heterosis to avoid retrogression (so faithfully practiced by Mr. Leachman) and so conversely I surmised I must maintain 75% homozygosity to assure repeatable progression - cattle who have no where to go but up. Smile Smile Bob H has already explained in great detail how easy the TruLine system is to manage and how commercial producers can get replacements.

Will, I also like doing new things - like breeding strains rather than breeds that could make beef production simpler and better.....out with the old breeds and in with the new purebred strains. Everything I own I owe to farming enhanced by my intense interest in the PUREBRED cow business. I have more than enough, especially work, unlike your new stage of life, I just cannot afford technology to the max, I still steer my own tractors and don't need mapping. So, you be the fire Will and I'll be the ice to produce more MK's . Smile Smile

LL in the process of installing a new color scanner in order to submit some of my non-academic research learning charts that led to my current breeding philosophies.....MK prefers pictures over words.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Reflections from LL ©   Mon May 21, 2012 1:01 pm

This is the only cow that ventured out into the sunlight and short Smile , yes short, not good, but plentiful, grass yesterday...Rocketman`s 4 yr old dam...sleek, shining, Bonsma type, not a hint of "fleshing ease/fertility lost" look about her...right down to the switch on her tail...lots of threads she could fit..but here with these quesions asked me personally, that I am putting up for group input...

not her calf; below is best pic I got; two months old and camera shy...pedigree on both? model A


THE QUESTIONS...

Mike, have question for you. I learned to always favor the most masculine yearling bulls when buying. the idea is the more masculine the bull the more feminine the hiefer calves.
Thus the bull with the higher SC was more desirable.The heavier, thicker bulls were considered more masculine.

LL seems to concentrate on the cow , using the bull simply to hold cow genetics together . I believe you do the same .
I am about to find out how the steer calves turn out from you . I like the looks of them as of right now.
As I understand it the desert arabs have the mares on the top side of registry of their horses.
My friend ------- A I s for maternal and doesn't worry about the steer production. He will pretty much top the Superior sale when he sells.


If I concentrate on making a set of Bonsma style brood cows will the steer tend to be the right kind or style for the market?



Will the most bonsma approved set of cows tend to make the most masculine bulls , albeit later maturing ?


I am not sure if I am rationilizing my decision to pursue the excellent set of cows. I know I want a set of Bonsma style cows here and feel the steer will take care of themselves.



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jonken



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PostSubject: Re: Reflections from LL ©   Mon May 21, 2012 2:24 pm

MKeeney wrote:
This is the only cow that ventured out into the sunlight and short Smile , yes short, not good, but plentiful, grass yesterday...Rocketman`s 4 yr old dam...sleek, shining, Bonsma type, not a hint of "fleshing ease/fertility lost" look about her...right down to the switch on her tail...lots of threads she could fit..but here with these quesions asked me personally, that I am putting up for group input...

not her calf; below is best pic I got; two months old and camera shy...pedigree on both? model A


THE QUESTIONS...

Mike, have question for you. I learned to always favor the most masculine yearling bulls when buying. the idea is the more masculine the bull the more feminine the hiefer calves.
Thus the bull with the higher SC was more desirable.The heavier, thicker bulls were considered more masculine.

LL seems to concentrate on the cow , using the bull simply to hold cow genetics together . I believe you do the same .
I am about to find out how the steer calves turn out from you . I like the looks of them as of right now.
As I understand it the desert arabs have the mares on the top side of registry of their horses.
My friend ------- A I s for maternal and doesn't worry about the steer production. He will pretty much top the Superior sale when he sells.


If I concentrate on making a set of Bonsma style brood cows will the steer tend to be the right kind or style for the market?



Will the most bonsma approved set of cows tend to make the most masculine bulls , albeit later maturing ?


I am not sure if I am rationilizing my decision to pursue the excellent set of cows. I know I want a set of Bonsma style cows here and feel the steer will take care of themselves.



Mike , Many reponses to your posed questions come to mind , yet my words best be kept in my reclusive state as most humans have little desire and sure as hell cherish instant gratification much more . Everyone wants to ride Hidalgo . How was Hidalgo created ? Jon
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tim hair



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PostSubject: Re: Reflections from LL ©   Mon May 21, 2012 3:24 pm

Cow looks pretty good to me if she has 30 more 1/2 sibs that look and function like she appear to it doesen.t matter what her sire looks like just use him.
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Will



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PostSubject: Re: Reflections from LL ©   Mon May 21, 2012 7:19 pm

LL, like always you leave a lot to think about. Max technology is not a luxury it is a necessity. No overlap with expensive chemicals or seed and fertilizer. Do you cross your strains and if so do you get heterosis?
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Will



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PostSubject: Re: Reflections from LL ©   Mon May 21, 2012 7:20 pm

MK, my cows would died from a heart atack if they saw grass like that! Nice cow and calf.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Reflections from LL ©   Mon May 21, 2012 9:18 pm

Will wrote:
MK, my cows would died from a heart atack if they saw grass like that! Nice cow and calf.
they would die for sure, but it would be a slow death...the grass would look good, but the sun and humidity would send them looking for shade and a pond to stand in {do you guys know these big time registered outfits around here clip every cow...every summer?}...if there was no pond, they would pee in the coolest area and make a pond...then, they would lose weight...then they would be open come fall...them maybe rebreed around Xmas , and maybe, just maybe, adapt and live happily thereafter...their calves would have a better chance of doing so...since they are mongrelized rather than inbred, there might be diversity enough that natural selection would propagate them readily over time...
now the closebred from WY will have even a tougher time, and the genes for survival in this environment may have been minimized by selection for function...in WY...ALL THAT GLITTERS IS NOT GOLD, BE IT GRASS OR CATTLE...
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PostSubject: Re: Reflections from LL ©   Mon May 21, 2012 9:28 pm

If I concentrate on making a set of Bonsma style brood cows will the steer tend to be the right kind or style for the market?

I have to back this up with more pictures, and admit to some more mental failures, hopefully in the past...but my answer is empathically YES
will they be as good as a terminal bull on a Bonsma type cow? probably not, but will sell for top dollar...and the puds touted as "fleshing ease, maternal type" will be about $10/cwt back...

Will the most bonsma approved set of cows tend to make the most masculine bulls , albeit later maturing ?

YES, though maybe not the biggest necked or biggest nutted at a year...there`s a difference in my mind between masculinity and maturity...pictures coming in a day or so to back up my biased from experience "opinions" Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Reflections from LL ©   Mon May 21, 2012 11:25 pm

MKeeney wrote:
If I concentrate on making a set of Bonsma style brood cows will the steer tend to be the right kind or style for the market?

I have to back this up with more pictures, and admit to some more mental failures, hopefully in the past...but my answer is empathically YES
will they be as good as a terminal bull on a Bonsma type cow? probably not, but will sell for top dollar...and the puds touted as "fleshing ease, maternal type" will be about $10/cwt back...

Will the most bonsma approved set of cows tend to make the most masculine bulls , albeit later maturing ?

YES, though maybe not the biggest necked or biggest nutted at a year...there`s a difference in my mind between masculinity and maturity...pictures coming in a day or so to back up my biased from experience "opinions" Smile



There is too much good information in all the above posts, for me to attempt to do them all justice.

On the theme of maternal types or Bonsma types, I am no expert. All I have is observation. Today I observed 10 bulls being semen tested through my chute today. Two of which got stuck at the shoulders, looking like some Victoria's Secret models with flesh protruding from every nook and cranny while being lifted and seperated from their natural state. I actually had to open the drop panels to get them through.

The other bulls while seeming being bigger, growthier, with MORE in the way of expected progeney differences, had no trouble slithering through the chutes.


It is a topsy turvey world, and for all man's ambition, Hidalgo, nothing more than many accidents of nature, beat them all. But Jon, they weren't all like Hildalgo either, were they?

Mike, these ''all that grass experts'' just need to come buy some of it, and see how it really works. Make 'em eat all that grass, all of it, and watch the turds turn hard as a brick along with their sides.





Bootheel, glad to make Mr. Leonhardt's aquaintance once again
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jonken



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PostSubject: Re: Reflections from LL ©   Tue May 22, 2012 12:56 am

Bootheel ,............. so all you have is your observations . study Keep up the good work .
Jon the pig
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jonken



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PostSubject: Re: Reflections from LL ©   Tue May 22, 2012 1:45 am

Bootheel wrote:






It is a topsy turvey world, and for all man's ambition, Hidalgo, nothing more than many accidents of nature, beat them all. But Jon, they weren't all like Hildalgo either, were they?

Your right regarding the world and may I add Sheryl Crow has nothing on a Joe from the Bootheel . ( what talents you both are with words . ) ...Sorry Bootheel I disagree in reference to accidents of nature , there was an alignment of some capacity . No Bootheel they were'nt all alike or like Hidalgo .
Jon , Hoping I can carry water to Joe and Sheryl some day





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Will



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PostSubject: Re: Reflections from LL ©   Tue May 22, 2012 6:46 am

MK, how do your white Chars handle the heat and humidity? Does color make a difference?
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PostSubject: Re: Reflections from LL ©   Tue May 22, 2012 6:58 am

Will wrote:
MK, how do your white Chars handle the heat and humidity? Does color make a difference?

I think they handle it a little better; I think light color in the South makes sense...but I have no data, just observation Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Reflections from LL ©   Tue May 22, 2012 4:19 pm

Dear Jon,

I have never written a Dear Jon letter before. I am taking a sick day today, so I thought I would cross off some items on my bucket list. This will not be your average, run of the mill, normalcy derived Dear Jon letter, as I am not breaking the relationship. Rather than legally seperate, I am entering myself into the counsel of elders' session to evaluate the future of the working relationship.

This matter of Hidalgo and the creation and purpose, and repeatibility of said being, may create a cavernous void of idealogy, that no manner or Council of Fools or Elders may span. I must ask for clarity on the said topic before moving this relationship to the next step.


How was Hildalgo created?

Was he anymore than a longhorn?


Would he still have been Hidalgo, with an ancestory from the Steppes of Asia, instead of the Spanish derivitives?


Was he merely the elusive outlier?

Did he breed true?

Was he any greater than the man that rode and nurtured his abilities?


As I am not an expert of any field, including the accurate historical depiction of Hidalgo, these questions must be answered to rectify the wavering relationship.


Yours truly,


Bootheel
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jonken



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PostSubject: Re: Reflections from LL ©   Thu May 24, 2012 1:24 pm

Bootheel wrote:
Dear Jon,

I have never written a Dear Jon letter before. I am taking a sick day today, so I thought I would cross off some items on my bucket list. This will not be your average, run of the mill, normalcy derived Dear Jon letter, as I am not breaking the relationship. Rather than legally seperate, I am entering myself into the counsel of elders' session to evaluate the future of the working relationship.

This matter of Hidalgo and the creation and purpose, and repeatibility of said being, may create a cavernous void of idealogy, that no manner or Council of Fools or Elders may span. I must ask for clarity on the said topic before moving this relationship to the next step.


How was Hildalgo created?

Was he anymore than a longhorn?


Would he still have been Hidalgo, with an ancestory from the Steppes of Asia, instead of the Spanish derivitives?


Was he merely the elusive outlier?

Did he breed true?

Was he any greater than the man that rode and nurtured his abilities?


As I am not an expert of any field, including the accurate historical depiction of Hidalgo, these questions must be answered to rectify the wavering relationship.


Yours truly,


Bootheel

Dear Joe , I like you am doing a first , I've never wrote a Dear John Letter to a Joe . At first an over whelming reluctance stood in the way for fear what our spouses might think . Then the realization of your deep voice put me at ease as it would be hard for you to whisper sweet nothings in my ear .

I have no clue how Hildalgo was created, which in a way was my point . He was created and he had no paper work or pedigree .
He might of not been any more than a longhorn but that is a hell of a starting point.
Possibly he was an outlier in many regards , ie. endurance , loyalty , personality ,and a will to live come to mind .
I'm sure many traits were passed on to his offspring , however the one trait that brought Hildalgo fame probably was'nt .
I like to believe the horse and the mans greatness were equal . Some relationships require no score card .

Bootheel , you already have clarity , you and many on here are observing and I can't wait for you to reflect on the bulls you ran through the chute recently and report back to us 12 - 18 months from now .
Hope this helps our relationship . Jon
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PostSubject: Re: Reflections from LL ©   Sat May 26, 2012 11:31 pm

jonken wrote:
Bootheel wrote:
Dear Jon,

I have never written a Dear Jon letter before. I am taking a sick day today, so I thought I would cross off some items on my bucket list. This will not be your average, run of the mill, normalcy derived Dear Jon letter, as I am not breaking the relationship. Rather than legally seperate, I am entering myself into the counsel of elders' session to evaluate the future of the working relationship.

This matter of Hidalgo and the creation and purpose, and repeatibility of said being, may create a cavernous void of idealogy, that no manner or Council of Fools or Elders may span. I must ask for clarity on the said topic before moving this relationship to the next step.


How was Hildalgo created?

Was he anymore than a longhorn?


Would he still have been Hidalgo, with an ancestory from the Steppes of Asia, instead of the Spanish derivitives?


Was he merely the elusive outlier?

Did he breed true?

Was he any greater than the man that rode and nurtured his abilities?


As I am not an expert of any field, including the accurate historical depiction of Hidalgo, these questions must be answered to rectify the wavering relationship.


Yours truly,


Bootheel

Dear Joe , I like you am doing a first , I've never wrote a Dear John Letter to a Joe . At first an over whelming reluctance stood in the way for fear what our spouses might think . Then the realization of your deep voice put me at ease as it would be hard for you to whisper sweet nothings in my ear .

I have no clue how Hildalgo was created, which in a way was my point . He was created and he had no paper work or pedigree .
He might of not been any more than a longhorn but that is a hell of a starting point.
Possibly he was an outlier in many regards , ie. endurance , loyalty , personality ,and a will to live come to mind .
I'm sure many traits were passed on to his offspring , however the one trait that brought Hildalgo fame probably was'nt .
I like to believe the horse and the mans greatness were equal . Some relationships require no score card .

Bootheel , you already have clarity , you and many on here are observing and I can't wait for you to reflect on the bulls you ran through the chute recently and report back to us 12 - 18 months from now .
Hope this helps our relationship . Jon


Dear Jon,

As I embark upon my second Dear Jon letter, I am filled with angst, over etiquette and proper protocol for responce, from a response to a Dear Jon letter. This is becoming twisted in my mind. In a slower time, weeks, or even months could transpire between correspondence. In this age of instant gratification, I am not sure if I am gratified. Relying on others for our own gratification is an ungratifying experience in and of itself, though the dangers of self gratifcation appear just as dangerous. As in all things, be they goats, chickens or pigs or cows, a moderate level of medium gratifaction seems best.

In a world of medium selection, with equal parts of contribution from man and nature, would Hildalgos be more repeatable, or a more regular occurance?

I am currently involved in a very scientific, Hidlagoesque experiment, in which all the billies get to mate with all the nannies. The only selection being practiced is the unfit get removed from the population before mother nature has the final say. This would be far too expensive of a venture to make on cows or horses, but goats are basically just ugly little cows, with uglier kids. The laws of nature still apply to them as well. The beefiest goats are seldom the milkiest. The milkiest are never the beefiests. Somewhere in between seems to make a pretty nice little functional goat. It all gets to sounding really familar of other sermons preached from Mountaintop.


As I ramble on I forget just what we were quarreling over to begin with, so I forgive you, but I do wish for you to expand upon your true thoughts of Hildalgo and the ways to mimic the selection methods, of superior creations of nature.


Bootheel






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tulip



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PostSubject: Re: Reflections from LL ©   Sun May 27, 2012 2:30 am

That is what I do with cattle, because they are nothing more than beautiful goats.
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Dylan Biggs



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PostSubject: Re: Reflections from LL ©   Sun May 27, 2012 3:53 pm

Bootheel wrote:
jonken wrote:
Bootheel wrote:
Dear Jon,

I have never written a Dear Jon letter before. I am taking a sick day today, so I thought I would cross off some items on my bucket list. This will not be your average, run of the mill, normalcy derived Dear Jon letter, as I am not breaking the relationship. Rather than legally seperate, I am entering myself into the counsel of elders' session to evaluate the future of the working relationship.

This matter of Hidalgo and the creation and purpose, and repeatibility of said being, may create a cavernous void of idealogy, that no manner or Council of Fools or Elders may span. I must ask for clarity on the said topic before moving this relationship to the next step.


How was Hildalgo created?

Was he anymore than a longhorn?


Would he still have been Hidalgo, with an ancestory from the Steppes of Asia, instead of the Spanish derivitives?


Was he merely the elusive outlier?

Did he breed true?

Was he any greater than the man that rode and nurtured his abilities?


As I am not an expert of any field, including the accurate historical depiction of Hidalgo, these questions must be answered to rectify the wavering relationship.


Yours truly,


Bootheel

Dear Joe , I like you am doing a first , I've never wrote a Dear John Letter to a Joe . At first an over whelming reluctance stood in the way for fear what our spouses might think . Then the realization of your deep voice put me at ease as it would be hard for you to whisper sweet nothings in my ear .

I have no clue how Hildalgo was created, which in a way was my point . He was created and he had no paper work or pedigree .
He might of not been any more than a longhorn but that is a hell of a starting point.
Possibly he was an outlier in many regards , ie. endurance , loyalty , personality ,and a will to live come to mind .
I'm sure many traits were passed on to his offspring , however the one trait that brought Hildalgo fame probably was'nt .
I like to believe the horse and the mans greatness were equal . Some relationships require no score card .

Bootheel , you already have clarity , you and many on here are observing and I can't wait for you to reflect on the bulls you ran through the chute recently and report back to us 12 - 18 months from now .
Hope this helps our relationship . Jon


Dear Jon,

As I embark upon my second Dear Jon letter, I am filled with angst, over etiquette and proper protocol for responce, from a response to a Dear Jon letter. This is becoming twisted in my mind. In a slower time, weeks, or even months could transpire between correspondence. In this age of instant gratification, I am not sure if I am gratified. Relying on others for our own gratification is an ungratifying experience in and of itself, though the dangers of self gratifcation appear just as dangerous. As in all things, be they goats, chickens or pigs or cows, a moderate level of medium gratifaction seems best.

In a world of medium selection, with equal parts of contribution from man and nature, would Hildalgos be more repeatable, or a more regular occurance?

I am currently involved in a very scientific, Hidlagoesque experiment, in which all the billies get to mate with all the nannies. The only selection being practiced is the unfit get removed from the population before mother nature has the final say. This would be far too expensive of a venture to make on cows or horses, but goats are basically just ugly little cows, with uglier kids. The laws of nature still apply to them as well. The beefiest goats are seldom the milkiest. The milkiest are never the beefiests. Somewhere in between seems to make a pretty nice little functional goat. It all gets to sounding really familar of other sermons preached from Mountaintop.


As I ramble on I forget just what we were quarreling over to begin with, so I forgive you, but I do wish for you to expand upon your true thoughts of Hildalgo and the ways to mimic the selection methods, of superior creations of nature.


Bootheel








Boothell, very gratifying! Smile
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Reflections from LL ©   Sun May 27, 2012 4:43 pm

Jon,
was the registered hog business as silly as the registered Angus business before it was replaced by the PIC`s of the world?
Cow, Lot 446[ tag 7749] by Net Worth, born in 2007. Reg No. +15774639.
SAV Emblynette Diamond 6377 is her dam, now 16 years old. She has
109 progeny totalling $457,900.
Lot 446 is the dam of SAV Harvestor, top 2011 bull at $275,000.
Lot 446 brought $350,000 on Feb. 11, 2012!
Lot 446 values: BW 4.9, Milk 34, YW 105, Marb +.35, Rea +.28
Lot 446 sold open and ready to flush. No doubt she is very familiar
with the process!
Heifer lot 447 [tag 1370] is a May 14, 2011 daughter of Lot 446, and sired by SAV Heavy Hitter. Lot 447 sold for $105,000.
Lot 505, Jan, 2011 heifer by Iron Mountain sold for $52,000 to Herbster.

Other top females at [451-$15,500], [481-$27,000], [455-$25,000],
[455-$25,000], [458-$25,000], [497-$32,000], 504-$23,000], [503-$20,000]

As mentioned above, this was simply a fantastic merchandising event ,accenting the terrific demand and market for the documented traits of the Aberdeen Angus breed. Today's Angus breeders should be very, very thankful for the previous pioneer breeders and AAA staff that understood the value of measuring and recording the important traits, and thus were able to produce and market high quality beef through the fantastic CAB program. CAB can rightly claim to have saved the beef industry.
All the folks attending this sale will be talking about it for
their lifetime, or at least until someone can top it!
I have all bull prices plus their updated EPDs and adjusted IMF and REA scans.

I find it quite incredulous that the old man who wrote the above could be so awed by such an event....but there`s a bright side in it for me; there`s worse things than being old...one of them is being old and still ignorant...though ignorance can be bliss...
they seem to operate on the theory that
A rising con raises all con ships...
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Will



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PostSubject: Re: Reflections from LL ©   Sun May 27, 2012 7:48 pm

MK, what event or thought brought your post out of the mothballs?
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Reflections from LL ©   Sun May 27, 2012 8:31 pm

Will wrote:
MK, what event or thought brought your post out of the mothballs?
Will,
nothing gets mothballed here; just chewed on, then spit into the fire...same old fart implying to WT that he had something akin to a closed herd maybe was the final straw,,,,he may have kept the back door closed and used the same ole girls, but there were more different daddie`s walking through the revolving front door than a Reno whorehouse...
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