Keeney`s Corner

A current and reflective discussion of cattle breeding from outside the registered mainstream
 
HomeUsergroupsRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 Year End Exam...

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4625
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Year End Exam...   Mon Dec 26, 2011 6:43 am

ok, it`s exam time...the test may not be fair; I took a bunch of test I thought was unfair because I did not know the answers...instructor said ts; same here...
I guessed my way through college; you can guess here as well...this isn`t about judging "best", with "best" determined by "judges", but is an idenification of characteristics judging class...all you have to do is match the sire to the picture...the winner will recieve two free Friday night dinner tickets to the next "gathering"..{ties will be broken by a drawing; you must be present to win}... exam completion deadline is 8 pm EST, Feb 1, 2012...pictures from the Keeney fall 2 year old heifers calves; what a beautiful Christmas day...

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

here are your possibilities

A...bull calf by 14/02 from the smallest of the heifers
B...bull calf by 152/04 {these sires are maternal brothers from the 86/96 cow previously discussed here}
C...20% plus IBC Shoshone "ERICA" bull calf; future herd sire
D...15% IBC Unwanted son{maternal half-sib mating}
E...a heifer full sib to C above
F...a heifer full sib to C above
G...heifer calf by 1126
H...heifer calf by 152/04
I... heifer calf by 152/04
J...heifer calf by 152/04

just list the sequence of numbers to match the letters above...you have only one entry but you can edit and change at any time prior to feb 1...if you think someone is going to copy you, this way you can lay some false tracks and change at the last moment Smile
cattle breeding is a game you cannot win, all you can do is play...so don`t be shy; your reputation doesn`t depend on it... Smile


Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4625
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: Year End Exam...   Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:20 am

Bill Riggins, Santa Rosa, NM, who many of you met this summer at the RL Gathering, sends his New Year`s Best Wishes to everyone at KC, and goes boldly where no one has gone before...with a list of numbers...Bill, maybe you can just bluff eveyone out Smile

Bill`s exam answers are 2,1,4,3,8,10,6,9,7, 5,
Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
Mark Day



Posts : 243
Join date : 2010-09-24
Age : 51
Location : Russellville, Ohio

PostSubject: Re: Year End Exam...   Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:03 pm

For whatever it is worth here are my answers, likely mostly wrong but that is ok as I do not know the pieces of the pedigree as well as the professor giving the exam. It has been a while since I have bought a meal in Nancy so I am not really worried about it and I think I could afford any of the high class diners we eat at anyway.

1.) A 14/02
2. ) B 152/04
3.) D Unwanted
4.) C Herd Sire
5.) H/I/J
6.) E or F
7.) H/I/J
8.) E/F
9.) G/1126 daughter
10.) H/I/J
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Year End Exam...   Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:19 pm

What the hell here goes the blind leading the blind.
A=2
B=3
c=1
D=4
E=9
F=6
G=8
H=5,7,10
I= same
J=same
Back to top Go down
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4625
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: Year End Exam...   Tue Dec 27, 2011 4:10 am

Thanks for replying guys...I was beginning to think registration papers didn`t tell us anything Smile
Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4625
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: Year End Exam...   Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:41 am

maybe the Falloon selection process{below} will help separate those sires above selected for more performance versus those selected for stability...mk

What we are doing is called “Population Genetics’ This is when you have a total population that you selecting to improve , in our case many traits.
The most important ‘Basics’ of the whole process it that ‘In any biological being there are millions of genes. Among these genes are genes that very superior to any trait. The purpose of our programme
Is an attmpt to get at these genes and to build them into our population. As you know at the moment of conception genes are selected at random. This can best be demonstrated by looking at any large family. All the children are the product of the same pair mating yet,,,,,,,,none of the children look alike, none of them behave the same, none of them are the same hight and so on. This is the result of the randomisation of genes.

Now, we began with a population, and ideally it would be as mixed as possible, because you are going to close it. Remembering that all the improvement comes from the bull because he has many progeny. The best bull of the year must have picked up the best genes of that year or he would not be the best. So you use him and you have begun to collect the best genes in your population. The next year you use the best bull of your herd for the same reason and your latest bull becomes the best bull who was buy the best bull and so you go on.
This is a very simple demonstration of the theory. Actual application is a lot more complex. We have been using this theory since 1965
Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Year End Exam...   Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:48 am

"What is truth?" --- Pontius Pilate

" What is best?" ---- Greg Walker
Back to top Go down
MVCatt



Posts : 141
Join date : 2010-09-24
Age : 42
Location : SW Penn

PostSubject: Re: Year End Exam...   Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:22 pm

A) 1
B) 2
C) 4
D) 3
E) 5
F) 10
G) 6
H) 7
I) 8
J) 9
Back to top Go down
outsidethebox



Posts : 88
Join date : 2010-11-17
Age : 64
Location : Goessel, Kansas

PostSubject: Re: Year End Exam...   Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:50 pm

Little to gain...nothing to loose.

1. D
2. B
3. A
4. C
5. G
6. E/F
7. H/I/J
8. H/I/J
9. E/F
10. H/I/J

Ignorance is bliss Very Happy
Back to top Go down
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4625
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: Year End Exam...   Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:58 am

outsidethebox wrote:
Little to gain...nothing to loose.

Ignorance is bliss Very Happy
self reliance is a tremendous gain... Smile
Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
df



Posts : 613
Join date : 2010-09-28

PostSubject: Re: Year End Exam...   Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:51 am

MKeeney wrote:
maybe the Falloon selection process{below} will help separate those sires above selected for more performance versus those selected for stability...mk

What we are doing is called “Population Genetics’ This is when you have a total population that you selecting to improve , in our case many traits.
The most important ‘Basics’ of the whole process it that ‘In any biological being there are millions of genes. Among these genes are genes that very superior to any trait. The purpose of our programme
Is an attmpt to get at these genes and to build them into our population. As you know at the moment of conception genes are selected at random. This can best be demonstrated by looking at any large family. All the children are the product of the same pair mating yet,,,,,,,,none of the children look alike, none of them behave the same, none of them are the same hight and so on. This is the result of the randomisation of genes.

Now, we began with a population, and ideally it would be as mixed as possible, because you are going to close it. Remembering that all the improvement comes from the bull because he has many progeny. The best bull of the year must have picked up the best genes of that year or he would not be the best. So you use him and you have begun to collect the best genes in your population. The next year you use the best bull of your herd for the same reason and your latest bull becomes the best bull who was buy the best bull and so you go on.
This is a very simple demonstration of the theory. Actual application is a lot more complex. We have been using this theory since 1965

I thought stayability was not genetic? Don't you mean "manage" for stayability instead of "select" for stayability?
Back to top Go down
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4625
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: Year End Exam...   Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:05 am

df wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
maybe the Falloon selection process{below} will help separate those sires above selected for more performance versus those selected for stability...mk

What we are doing is called “Population Genetics’ This is when you have a total population that you selecting to improve , in our case many traits.
The most important ‘Basics’ of the whole process it that ‘In any biological being there are millions of genes. Among these genes are genes that very superior to any trait. The purpose of our programme
Is an attmpt to get at these genes and to build them into our population. As you know at the moment of conception genes are selected at random. This can best be demonstrated by looking at any large family. All the children are the product of the same pair mating yet,,,,,,,,none of the children look alike, none of them behave the same, none of them are the same hight and so on. This is the result of the randomisation of genes.

Now, we began with a population, and ideally it would be as mixed as possible, because you are going to close it. Remembering that all the improvement comes from the bull because he has many progeny. The best bull of the year must have picked up the best genes of that year or he would not be the best. So you use him and you have begun to collect the best genes in your population. The next year you use the best bull of your herd for the same reason and your latest bull becomes the best bull who was buy the best bull and so you go on.
This is a very simple demonstration of the theory. Actual application is a lot more complex. We have been using this theory since 1965

I thought stayability was not genetic? Don't you mean "manage" for stayability instead of "select" for stayability?

stability of a line and stayability of an individual are two different issues...has someone inferred that stayability doesn`t have a genetic component? not I...I`m sure you`ll include stayability in the maternal index you are building for us...what would be the effect on stayability of the requirements for sires in the MO Show Me Select heifer sales? you don`t have to answer in increments; just positive or negative will be adequate...
Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
df



Posts : 613
Join date : 2010-09-28

PostSubject: Re: Year End Exam...   Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:59 am

Call Dave Paterson; he is in charge of that program.
Back to top Go down
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4625
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: Year End Exam...   Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:55 pm

df wrote:
Call Dave Paterson; he is in charge of that program.

here`s another archaic university program...how shameful to mistreat bulls this way in the name of "performance" when all it is , is tradition...

http://animalscience.ag.utk.edu/Beef/BullTestingProgram-Senior.html
Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
df



Posts : 613
Join date : 2010-09-28

PostSubject: Re: Year End Exam...   Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:20 am

MKeeney wrote:
df wrote:
Call Dave Paterson; he is in charge of that program.

here`s another archaic university program...how shameful to mistreat bulls this way in the name of "performance" when all it is , is tradition...

http://animalscience.ag.utk.edu/Beef/BullTestingProgram-Senior.html

Send them a copy of LL's writings; eventually they will see the light.
Back to top Go down
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4625
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: Year End Exam...   Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:45 pm

df wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
df wrote:
Call Dave Paterson; he is in charge of that program.

here`s another archaic university program...how shameful to mistreat bulls this way in the name of "performance" when all it is , is tradition...

http://animalscience.ag.utk.edu/Beef/BullTestingProgram-Senior.html

Send them a copy of LL's writings; eventually they will see the light.

There`s a little problem called reading comprehension; get past that, you encounter a bigger problem...a yellow streak down the back...in some circles that yellow streak is referred to as "job security"
Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
df



Posts : 613
Join date : 2010-09-28

PostSubject: Re: Year End Exam...   Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:49 pm

There are benefits to operating your own business.
Back to top Go down
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4625
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: Year End Exam...   Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:17 pm

df wrote:
There are benefits to operating your own business.
oh , I`ve fired myself several times...but I keep rehiring me Smile
in our new maternal index, what will be the economic significance of being in the bottom half of the top 1% for birthweight, rather than being in the top half of the top 1% for birthweight... Smile
Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
df



Posts : 613
Join date : 2010-09-28

PostSubject: Re: Year End Exam...   Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:35 pm

MKeeney wrote:
df wrote:
There are benefits to operating your own business.
oh , I`ve fired myself several times...but I keep rehiring me Smile
in our new maternal index, what will be the economic significance of being in the bottom half of the top 1% for birthweight, rather than being in the top half of the top 1% for birthweight... Smile

Is it ok to assume you will not sell any females for breeding purposes until they calve at age 6? And any females sold from the date of calving at age 2 until she calves at age 6 is a cull.

If so, success will be a female that calves at age 2 and at age 6 and failure is defined as calve at age 2 but did not calve at age 6. As long as you tell me the month and year every calf is born, along with the sire and dam (unique numbers), then the number one issue (stay) can be addressed.

You don't even have to weigh anything!! Just need the data every year.
Back to top Go down
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4625
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: Year End Exam...   Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:07 pm

df wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
df wrote:
There are benefits to operating your own business.
oh , I`ve fired myself several times...but I keep rehiring me Smile
in our new maternal index, what will be the economic significance of being in the bottom half of the top 1% for birthweight, rather than being in the top half of the top 1% for birthweight... Smile

Is it ok to assume you will not sell any females for breeding purposes until they calve at age 6? And any females sold from the date of calving at age 2 until she calves at age 6 is a cull.

If so, success will be a female that calves at age 2 and at age 6 and failure is defined as calve at age 2 but did not calve at age 6. As long as you tell me the month and year every calf is born, along with the sire and dam (unique numbers), then the number one issue (stay) can be addressed.

You don't even have to weigh anything!! Just need the data every year.

ok.....what is the satistical significance of the genetic component of comparing twenty daughters lifetime by a sire....one has 15 daughters left at 6; one has 12...one has 13...
Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
df



Posts : 613
Join date : 2010-09-28

PostSubject: Re: Year End Exam...   Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:33 pm

Are you asking if these measurements are statistically different?

Over time the best sires are identified. While it all seems very petty, the impact of genetic drift should probably be considered.
Back to top Go down
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4625
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: Year End Exam...   Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:33 pm

df wrote:
Are you asking if these measurements are statistically different?

Over time the best sires are identified. While it all seems very petty, the impact of genetic drift should probably be considered.

actually I`m telling you they are not significantly different from a heritability standpoint; but you know that...the nice thing is, those that fall out, leave less progeny in the herd {drift?}...everything you animal breeders want to index and quantify is hindsight...the most accomplished breeders have foresight...
Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
df



Posts : 613
Join date : 2010-09-28

PostSubject: Re: Year End Exam...   Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:47 pm

MKeeney wrote:
df wrote:
Are you asking if these measurements are statistically different?

Over time the best sires are identified. While it all seems very petty, the impact of genetic drift should probably be considered.

actually I`m telling you they are not significantly different from a heritability standpoint; but you know that...the nice thing is, those that fall out, leave less progeny in the herd {drift?}...everything you animal breeders want to index and quantify is hindsight...the most accomplished breeders have foresight...

How do you make decions on which animals are the parents for the next generation?
Back to top Go down
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4625
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: Year End Exam...   Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:44 pm

by what I see standing in front of me; so , I guess that is only current sight... Smile
Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4625
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: Year End Exam...   Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:15 pm

MKeeney wrote:
ok, it`s exam time...the test may not be fair; I took a bunch of test I thought was unfair because I did not know the answers...instructor said ts; same here...
I guessed my way through college; you can guess here as well...this isn`t about judging "best", with "best" determined by "judges", but is an idenification of characteristics judging class...all you have to do is match the sire to the picture...the winner will recieve two free Friday night dinner tickets to the next "gathering"..{ties will be broken by a drawing; you must be present to win}... exam completion deadline is 8 pm EST, Feb 1, 2012...pictures from the Keeney fall 2 year old heifers calves; what a beautiful Christmas day...

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

here are your possibilities

A...bull calf by 14/02 from the smallest of the heifers
B...bull calf by 152/04 {these sires are maternal brothers from the 86/96 cow previously discussed here}
C...20% plus IBC Shoshone "ERICA" bull calf; future herd sire
D...15% IBC Unwanted son{maternal half-sib mating}
E...a heifer full sib to C above
F...a heifer full sib to C above
G...heifer calf by 1126
H...heifer calf by 152/04
I... heifer calf by 152/04
J...heifer calf by 152/04

just list the sequence of numbers to match the letters above...you have only one entry but you can edit and change at any time prior to feb 1...if you think someone is going to copy you, this way you can lay some false tracks and change at the last moment Smile
cattle breeding is a game you cannot win, all you can do is play...so don`t be shy; your reputation doesn`t depend on it... Smile



I`ve sighed to myself a few times by coincidence of conversations the last few days over the excitement of PB first crosses...and the failings of our message about outcrosses...the excitement of the moment replacing the reality that it`s all downhill after the first cross... Rolling Eyes oh well, I`ll just keep breeding MY FAVORED down, to know where I`m ending when I go UP Smile
Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Year End Exam...   

Back to top Go down
 
Year End Exam...
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Year End Exam...
» Third term exam
» 2011 Arrived... HAPPY NEW YEAR to you all!!
» New Year's Resolution (Welcome 2011)
» unemployed for over a year

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Keeney`s Corner :: farm and ranch life-
Jump to: