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 Thinking Aloud

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Grassfarmer



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Join date : 2010-09-27
Location : Belmont, Manitoba, Canada

PostSubject: Thinking Aloud   Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:50 pm

Throwing out a random line of thought I'm having and inviting input, advice or ridicule from the collective brain power of KC. In my small herd I've (too?) many things going on - purebred Luings that are my main interest and focus, producing replacement females and a few bulls to sell. Surplus sell as feeders or go into my grassfed retailing operation which is taking 40-50 head a year. I also have some commercial Red Angus that were bought to make up numbers but turn in very useful F1 Luing sired calves that go as grassfeds but I have lots of demand for the F1 females too. On the retailing side I'd like some more beef - faster growing, bigger better carcasses without losing quality would be desirable if the negative consequences aren't too hard to bear. So I'm thinking what if I AI'd a few of my preferred type Red Angus cows with a meat machine Charolais bull with the intention of retaining a Char/Ang bull to use on some of my poorer Luing cows exclusively to breed fattening cattle? I wouldn't use him on Angus cows as I want the 1/2 Luing component for meat quality, I'd continue to breed my Angus to Luing bulls for that reason also. I don't want less than 75% British blood for fattening on my grass in my climate, that's just a personal preference. Another shorter route would be to just buy an Angus bull and use him on some Luings - but would they get me a better result than a Char x? I guess it depends more on the "types" than the "breeds" right? How much would it change the meat quality infusing 25% Charolais genetics? How much would it increase the growth/carcass quality?
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PatB



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Age : 53
Location : Turner, Maine

PostSubject: Re: Thinking Aloud   Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:55 am

The quality and traits of the bull you decide to go with will have more impact than the breed. I would think it woud be easier to buy an angus bull to meet your desires than a charolais but I am not familiar with what is available in your region. A simmi may meet your needs also.
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Tom D
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Age : 38
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PostSubject: Re: Thinking Aloud   Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:19 am

Grassfarmer wrote:
In my small herd I've (too?) many things going on - purebred Luings that are my main interest and focus, producing replacement females and a few bulls to sell. Surplus sell as feeders or go into my grassfed retailing operation which is taking 40-50 head a year.

You just answered your own question. If Luings are worthy of being a "breed" then somebody has to breed them. If not you, who? Surely the pride and satisfaction that you take from that endeavor is enough to offset the small monetary gains you feel like you're missing out on. If you had a larger scale operation, you could probably afford to do some planned crossing experiments, but with your current herd size and the current state of the Luing breed, you should STAY FOCUSED.

TD, preaching "Do as I say, not as I do"
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PostSubject: Re: Thinking Aloud   Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:56 am

Grassfarmer wrote:
Throwing out a random line of thought I'm having and inviting input, advice or ridicule from the collective brain power of KC. In my small herd I've (too?) many things going on - purebred Luings that are my main interest and focus, producing replacement females and a few bulls to sell. Surplus sell as feeders or go into my grassfed retailing operation which is taking 40-50 head a year. I also have some commercial Red Angus that were bought to make up numbers but turn in very useful F1 Luing sired calves that go as grassfeds but I have lots of demand for the F1 females too. On the retailing side I'd like some more beef - faster growing, bigger better carcasses without losing quality would be desirable if the negative consequences aren't too hard to bear. So I'm thinking what if I AI'd a few of my preferred type Red Angus cows with a meat machine Charolais bull with the intention of retaining a Char/Ang bull to use on some of my poorer Luing cows exclusively to breed fattening cattle? I wouldn't use him on Angus cows as I want the 1/2 Luing component for meat quality, I'd continue to breed my Angus to Luing bulls for that reason also. I don't want less than 75% British blood for fattening on my grass in my climate, that's just a personal preference. Another shorter route would be to just buy an Angus bull and use him on some Luings - but would they get me a better result than a Char x? I guess it depends more on the "types" than the "breeds" right? How much would it change the meat quality infusing 25% Charolais genetics? How much would it increase the growth/carcass quality?

Or you could buy one from Mike in April.
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MKeeney
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Posts : 4600
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PostSubject: Re: Thinking Aloud   Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:08 am

Gregory Walker wrote:
Grassfarmer wrote:
Throwing out a random line of thought I'm having and inviting input, advice or ridicule from the collective brain power of KC. In my small herd I've (too?) many things going on - purebred Luings that are my main interest and focus, producing replacement females and a few bulls to sell. Surplus sell as feeders or go into my grassfed retailing operation which is taking 40-50 head a year. I also have some commercial Red Angus that were bought to make up numbers but turn in very useful F1 Luing sired calves that go as grassfeds but I have lots of demand for the F1 females too. On the retailing side I'd like some more beef - faster growing, bigger better carcasses without losing quality would be desirable if the negative consequences aren't too hard to bear. So I'm thinking what if I AI'd a few of my preferred type Red Angus cows with a meat machine Charolais bull with the intention of retaining a Char/Ang bull to use on some of my poorer Luing cows exclusively to breed fattening cattle? I wouldn't use him on Angus cows as I want the 1/2 Luing component for meat quality, I'd continue to breed my Angus to Luing bulls for that reason also. I don't want less than 75% British blood for fattening on my grass in my climate, that's just a personal preference. Another shorter route would be to just buy an Angus bull and use him on some Luings - but would they get me a better result than a Char x? I guess it depends more on the "types" than the "breeds" right? How much would it change the meat quality infusing 25% Charolais genetics? How much would it increase the growth/carcass quality?

Or you could buy one from Mike in April.
for less than the cost of shipping to Alberta Smile but I agree, forget breed...it`s type, type, type
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Tom D
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PostSubject: Re: Thinking Aloud   Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:15 am

Am I on Keeney's Corner, or did I unknowingly drive to Bunker Hill Chill and Grill and sit down at the farmer's table? scratch You guys have no PASSION, there is more to life than bragging about how nice your feeder calves look.

TD, in full body paint at the soccer game, screaming OH LUING, OH LUING, OH LUING, OH LUING!
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Grassfarmer



Posts : 846
Join date : 2010-09-27
Location : Belmont, Manitoba, Canada

PostSubject: Re: Thinking Aloud   Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:30 pm

patb wrote:
I would think it woud be easier to buy an angus bull to meet your desires than a charolais but I am not familiar with what is available in your region. A simmi may meet your needs also.

I don't want to buy a bull - again - ever. Hence my idea of introducing some genetics through AI into cattle I know.

Tom D wrote:

If Luings are worthy of being a "breed" then somebody has to breed them. If not you, who? Surely the pride and satisfaction that you take from that endeavor is enough to offset the small monetary gains you feel like you're missing out on.

Yeah, but I've always liked outcrossing the bottom end of my herd to terminal. Removes the temptation to keep things you shouldn't. Besides wouldn't I be moving in the direction of "more efficient beef production" by using more appropriate genetics for producing the seedless fruit?
Ballpark figures
Use one Char x bull - get 35 saleable calves. 25 into grassfed program producing 20lbs heavier carcass each = $1500, 10 to sell as feeders (tan calves always bring me a $50 premium even if they were no heavier) = $500. I think these estimates of increased production are on the low side but still $2000/year extra for 5 years use of the bull = $10,000. Only added cost would be AI'ing maybe 4 cows to get the bull initially.


MKeeney wrote:
........... but I agree, forget breed...it`s type, type, type[/quote]

The high meat yielding, terminal type doesn't exist in my breed and I sure don't intend to create or select for them hence my interest in incorporating something that already has more of those attributes in a commercial situation.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Thinking Aloud   Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:31 pm

Grassy,
Go for it...everyone stabalizing breeds needs examples around to demonstrate to themselves and to customers the merits of their breed or breeds in commercial production utilizing the Tru-line concept producing more from less...
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Bob H



Posts : 372
Join date : 2011-02-17
Location : SW Idaho

PostSubject: Re: Thinking Aloud   Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:38 pm

Iain for your teminal type why not use a moderate Charolais and make all of them terminal not to cross. I would think that you would find a great eating quality in those f 1 crosses and maybe add 100lbs of carcass weight. I am sure that if you weigh steers and heifers at weaning you would gain at least 50lbs of weaning weight over the staight bred sibs. We have good results in meat quality doing this on Shoshone cows using Eaton terminal charolais. Just some thoughts Bob H
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Grassfarmer



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Join date : 2010-09-27
Location : Belmont, Manitoba, Canada

PostSubject: Re: Thinking Aloud   Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:39 pm

MKeeney wrote:
Grassy,
Go for it...everyone stabalizing breeds needs examples around to demonstrate to themselves and to customers the merits of their breed or breeds in commercial production utilizing the Tru-line concept producing more from less...

That's one of the reasons I have the red Angus cows Mike - to demonstrate the job a Luing bull will do on them. I sell more Luing bulls to red Angus herds than anything else. For the same reason it's been at the back of my mind to run a charolais again to show the job it would make on a Luing female. That is just a beautiful cross - you get the good haired, tan calves that the buyers up here love.


Bob H wrote:
Iain for your teminal type why not use a moderate Charolais and make all of them terminal not to cross. I would think that you would find a great eating quality in those f 1 crosses and maybe add 100lbs of carcass weight. I am sure that if you weigh steers and heifers at weaning you would gain at least 50lbs of weaning weight over the staight bred sibs. We have good results in meat quality doing this on Shoshone cows using Eaton terminal charolais. Just some thoughts Bob H

Bob I'm just not too comfortable going with a 50% exotic either for fattening on our grass at the age we kill them or for the effect on taste/marbling. Rightly or wrongly we've got something our beef customers are just crazy about and I don't want to lose that. I've fattened lots of breeds and combinations over the years and my preference is strongly for at least 75% British blood.

GF, in the vicinity of not knowing what kind of eatin' Eaton would produce under my system.
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Bob H



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PostSubject: Re: Thinking Aloud   Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:28 am

I would still try a few from certain lines thru A I and try it, all the while being honest with your customers.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Thinking Aloud   Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:45 am

Bob H wrote:
I would still try a few from certain lines thru A I and try it, all the while being honest with your customers.
Bob,
What are the grid premuims in your marketing co-op? primarily interested in select/choice spread...choice/cab spread...
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EddieM



Posts : 895
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Location : South Carolina

PostSubject: Re: Thinking Aloud   Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:28 am

Quote :
my preference is strongly for at least 75% British blood.

Iain, what about AIing a few good cows to a Charolais bull with carcass traits and keeping sons to breed across the bottom end for the end result of 25/75?
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