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MKeeney
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PostSubject: perception versus reality   Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:31 am


Friday, November 25, 2011 at 1:00 P.M.
11th Annual Bred Heifer and Cow sale. This auction offers some of the nicest reputation AI'd angus heifers in the entire midwest!! All heifers have qualified for the "Show-Me" select bred heifer program! Cattle will be sold in small uniform Lots to suit all buyers. This auction will feature approximately 225 purebred angus heifers. This auction will also feature some registered angus cows. Sale to be held at Carthage Livestock Auction Inc., Carthage, IL.
Harold "H.G." and Marvis Trump
Click here for video
SOLD! 206 heifers: $1,812.14 avg/hd!

now you just gotta wonder where is the source of these heifers ? surely KY could not be a source? certainly not piss poor epd`ed cattle of Keeney Angus descent?
amazing what bred AI, weighed, vaccinated, and pelvic measured can do to distort reality... more power to Mr. Trump, a hard worker, and fine fellow to do business with...

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Mark Day



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PostSubject: Re: perception versus reality   Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:12 am

Are you implying that some of those were once your heifers?
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: perception versus reality   Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:54 pm

Mark Day wrote:
Are you implying that some of those were once your heifers?
just the genes via a long time customer
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Mark Day



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PostSubject: Re: perception versus reality   Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:09 pm

Can you activate that video link to see them?
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: perception versus reality   Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:42 pm

It felt so nice to have a DV moment this morning. After showing an "educator", absentee owner/partner of an 80 cow herd the cows and a 950 lb/$1750 yearling bull for the second time in the last 4 years without selling him anything, he called back with more questions this morning that his partner thought he should have asked. I noticed him writing notes in his notebook yesterday; and it looked as if I was not his only stop..
.I told him I wasn`t in the mood to be on the witness stand again this morning answering meaningless questions about individuals instead of questions about my "program",... that I had no great bulls, and given all the questions his partner needed answered, he must be searching for a "great" one...so if they bought one from me, they were bound to be disappointed....so, I really did not want to sell them a bull...nonethe less, he "sneaked" in one question..."what does the bull weigh"? so I said, ya see, there the partner goes asking dumb questions"? Did he ask how the bulls had been fed? and of course, he did not...so I say how silly to ask weight, without asking the ration because feed, not genetics, is the primary factor of weight...
by then, he was really believing that I really wasn`t going to sell them a bull; and got off the phone rather hurriedly...independence, I bask in it`s warmth Smile
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shilow angus



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PostSubject: Re: perception versus reality   Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:50 pm

MKeeney wrote:
It felt so nice to have a DV moment this morning. After showing an "educator", absentee owner/partner of an 80 cow herd the cows and a 950 lb/$1750 yearling bull for the second time in the last 4 years without selling him anything, he called back with more questions this morning that his partner thought he should have asked. I noticed him writing notes in his notebook yesterday; and it looked as if I was not his only stop..
.I told him I wasn`t in the mood to be on the witness stand again this morning answering meaningless questions about individuals instead of questions about my "program",... that I had no great bulls, and given all the questions his partner needed answered, he must be searching for a "great" one...so if they bought one from me, they were bound to be disappointed....so, I really did not want to sell them a bull...nonethe less, he "sneaked" in one question..."what does the bull weigh"? so I said, ya see, there the partner goes asking dumb questions"? Did he ask how the bulls had been fed? and of course, he did not...so I say how silly to ask weight, without asking the ration because feed, not genetics, is the primary factor of weight...
by then, he was really believing that I really wasn`t going to sell them a bull; and got off the phone rather hurriedly...independence, I bask in it`s warmth Smile

I let mike pick my bulls.... How could any one walk thru the bulls for a few minutes and know more about them than the breeder...
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Mark Day



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PostSubject: Re: perception versus reality   Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:22 pm

Quote :
I let mike pick my bulls.... How could any one walk thru the bulls for a few minutes and know more about them than the breeder


Ahhh, but the fun of raising your hand and getting the bull you want and taking him home and turning him out and saying "yep, he looks even better at my place."
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: perception versus reality   Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:26 pm

Mark Day wrote:
Quote :
I let mike pick my bulls.... How could any one walk thru the bulls for a few minutes and know more about them than the breeder


Ahhh, but the fun of raising your hand and getting the bull you want and taking him home and turning him out and saying "yep, he looks even better at my place."
if it matters very much which bull you choose, has a breeder done his job?
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: perception versus reality   Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:15 am

and in that regard, I`m very pleased with the bulls Larkota brought me...and was great to hear Brian say as he traveled from Bill and Chris Byars Mo place back to SD that he was so much more confident leaving Mo with the genetics he had on his trailer than the last time he left Mo with Sydenstricker genetics...Could his confidence be influenced by all the money he still had on his hip that he had left with fast Eddie last time?
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Bob H



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PostSubject: Re: perception versus reality   Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:02 am

It would be much more important to me to walk thru the seedstock producers whole cow herd and see what total percentage of cows that I did not like as that is what you would end up with.
On this note we traded a set of cows a few days ago with the old cows looking ok and the younger the cows got the bigger and less feminine . The fellow that purchased them understood and just wants to run them for a year.

It was very interesting as the fellow that raised the cows was proud that he had been spending 4500 dollars for his bulls from top mainstream breeders, you get what you plant even if the numbers and bs say not.

Bob H from the planet of odd thinking
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Mark Day



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PostSubject: Re: perception versus reality   Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:02 pm

Quote :
if it matters very much which bull you choose, has a breeder done his job

I was only pointing out the thrill some have when picking out and bidding on their own and thinking about the ways we decide which one we want when they all look the same. I heard of a person once that picked one out just because it followed him around in the pen. Smile

MD. the weird guy that likes to bond with his bulls even though some of his best bulls were picked for him to bond with.
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Gus



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PostSubject: Re: perception versus reality   Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:46 pm

I'm pretty bad for looking at my home raised bulls and believing they will work better for me than anything I could buy, that is my perception. Reality; I'm sure there our bulls that would work just as well, maybe even better, but life experience proved they wasn't the high dollar high promoted A.I. sires I used a good share of my life. scratch
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: perception versus reality   Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:27 pm

MKeeney wrote:
It felt so nice to have a DV moment this morning. After showing an "educator", absentee owner/partner of an 80 cow herd the cows and a 950 lb/$1750 yearling bull for the second time in the last 4 years without selling him anything, he called back with more questions this morning that his partner thought he should have asked. I noticed him writing notes in his notebook yesterday; and it looked as if I was not his only stop..
.I told him I wasn`t in the mood to be on the witness stand again this morning answering meaningless questions about individuals instead of questions about my "program",... that I had no great bulls, and given all the questions his partner needed answered, he must be searching for a "great" one...so if they bought one from me, they were bound to be disappointed....so, I really did not want to sell them a bull...nonethe less, he "sneaked" in one question..."what does the bull weigh"? so I said, ya see, there the partner goes asking dumb questions"? Did he ask how the bulls had been fed? and of course, he did not...so I say how silly to ask weight, without asking the ration because feed, not genetics, is the primary factor of weight...
by then, he was really believing that I really wasn`t going to sell them a bull; and got off the phone rather hurriedly...independence, I bask in it`s warmth Smile
gee whiz,
had another poor experience tonight...advertized some first calf heifers with young calves at side...caller wanted to know if they met state cost-share guidelines...I said I hope so; they are good condition, size, nice udders, and raising good calves... what are the guidelines? well, pelvic measured, bred to low birth weight bulls, and vaccinated for reproductive diseases...so I asked if a calf at side could serve as a guarantee or did he need "data" {paper proof}...a bit dumbfounded by common sense, he hestitated...and I gave him a lecture Ron Paul would have been proud of...that was worth more for the soul than selling the heifers... cheers
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larkota



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PostSubject: Re: perception versus reality   Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:07 am

MKeeney wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
It felt so nice to have a DV moment this morning. After showing an "educator", absentee owner/partner of an 80 cow herd the cows and a 950 lb/$1750 yearling bull for the second time in the last 4 years without selling him anything, he called back with more questions this morning that his partner thought he should have asked. I noticed him writing notes in his notebook yesterday; and it looked as if I was not his only stop..
.I told him I wasn`t in the mood to be on the witness stand again this morning answering meaningless questions about individuals instead of questions about my "program",... that I had no great bulls, and given all the questions his partner needed answered, he must be searching for a "great" one...so if they bought one from me, they were bound to be disappointed....so, I really did not want to sell them a bull...nonethe less, he "sneaked" in one question..."what does the bull weigh"? so I said, ya see, there the partner goes asking dumb questions"? Did he ask how the bulls had been fed? and of course, he did not...so I say how silly to ask weight, without asking the ration because feed, not genetics, is the primary factor of weight...
by then, he was really believing that I really wasn`t going to sell them a bull; and got off the phone rather hurriedly...independence, I bask in it`s warmth Smile
gee whiz,
had another poor experience tonight...advertized some first calf heifers with young calves at side...caller wanted to know if they met state cost-share guidelines...I said I hope so; they are good condition, size, nice udders, and raising good calves... what are the guidelines? well, pelvic measured, bred to low birth weight bulls, and vaccinated for reproductive diseases...so I asked if a calf at side could serve as a guarantee or did he need "data" {paper proof}...a bit dumbfounded by common sense, he hestitated...and I gave him a lecture Ron Paul would have been proud of...that was worth more for the soul than selling the heifers... cheers


sometimes I find myself such as you at a crossroad. this a teachable moment or get the hell out of my face and never come back. how can you see the goodness and still doubt?
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: perception versus reality   Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:20 pm

I`ve gotten too old to waste time teaching customers that know more than I do...
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: perception versus reality   Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:54 pm

MKeeney wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
It felt so nice to have a DV moment this morning. After showing an "educator", absentee owner/partner of an 80 cow herd the cows and a 950 lb/$1750 yearling bull for the second time in the last 4 years without selling him anything, he called back with more questions this morning that his partner thought he should have asked. I noticed him writing notes in his notebook yesterday; and it looked as if I was not his only stop..
.I told him I wasn`t in the mood to be on the witness stand again this morning answering meaningless questions about individuals instead of questions about my "program",... that I had no great bulls, and given all the questions his partner needed answered, he must be searching for a "great" one...so if they bought one from me, they were bound to be disappointed....so, I really did not want to sell them a bull...nonethe less, he "sneaked" in one question..."what does the bull weigh"? so I said, ya see, there the partner goes asking dumb questions"? Did he ask how the bulls had been fed? and of course, he did not...so I say how silly to ask weight, without asking the ration because feed, not genetics, is the primary factor of weight...
by then, he was really believing that I really wasn`t going to sell them a bull; and got off the phone rather hurriedly...independence, I bask in it`s warmth Smile
gee whiz,
had another poor experience tonight...advertized some first calf heifers with young calves at side...caller wanted to know if they met state cost-share guidelines...I said I hope so; they are good condition, size, nice udders, and raising good calves... what are the guidelines? well, pelvic measured, bred to low birth weight bulls, and vaccinated for reproductive diseases...so I asked if a calf at side could serve as a guarantee or did he need "data" {paper proof}...a bit dumbfounded by common sense, he hestitated...and I gave him a lecture Ron Paul would have been proud of...that was worth more for the soul than selling the heifers... cheers

more bad marketing news for me from over in the KY strip mine reclaimation area ; Pharo wins again Exclamation

Mike sold some steers after thanksgiving...Out of 3 frame home grown Bull on 1st calf heifers the small frames 435lb x102.50=445.87 the larger frame calves 558x139=775.62 only $330 diff. Sadly mike I can no longer use your 5 frame bulls they are going to put me into to higher tax bracket Smile Tom

[


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Mark Day



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PostSubject: Re: perception versus reality   Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:06 pm

Quote :
Pharo wins again

Not hardly, Pharo would say you have to buy 3 frame bulls from him, not use your own home grown bull on your own heifers.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: perception versus reality   Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:17 pm

Mark Day wrote:
Quote :
Pharo wins again

Not hardly, Pharo would say you have to buy 3 frame bulls from him, not use your own home grown bull on your own heifers.

the answer appears to be a flat tax so people can continue to use my bulls Smile
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PostSubject: Re: perception versus reality   Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:51 pm

MKeeney wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
It felt so nice to have a DV moment this morning. After showing an "educator", absentee owner/partner of an 80 cow herd the cows and a 950 lb/$1750 yearling bull for the second time in the last 4 years without selling him anything, he called back with more questions this morning that his partner thought he should have asked. I noticed him writing notes in his notebook yesterday; and it looked as if I was not his only stop..
.I told him I wasn`t in the mood to be on the witness stand again this morning answering meaningless questions about individuals instead of questions about my "program",... that I had no great bulls, and given all the questions his partner needed answered, he must be searching for a "great" one...so if they bought one from me, they were bound to be disappointed....so, I really did not want to sell them a bull...nonethe less, he "sneaked" in one question..."what does the bull weigh"? so I said, ya see, there the partner goes asking dumb questions"? Did he ask how the bulls had been fed? and of course, he did not...so I say how silly to ask weight, without asking the ration because feed, not genetics, is the primary factor of weight...
by then, he was really believing that I really wasn`t going to sell them a bull; and got off the phone rather hurriedly...independence, I bask in it`s warmth Smile
gee whiz,
had another poor experience tonight...advertized some first calf heifers with young calves at side...caller wanted to know if they met state cost-share guidelines...I said I hope so; they are good condition, size, nice udders, and raising good calves... what are the guidelines? well, pelvic measured, bred to low birth weight bulls, and vaccinated for reproductive diseases...so I asked if a calf at side could serve as a guarantee or did he need "data" {paper proof}...a bit dumbfounded by common sense, he hestitated...and I gave him a lecture Ron Paul would have been proud of...that was worth more for the soul than selling the heifers... cheers

more bad marketing news for me from over in the KY strip mine reclaimation area ; Pharo wins again Exclamation

Mike sold some steers after thanksgiving...Out of 3 frame home grown Bull on 1st calf heifers the small frames 435lb x102.50=445.87 the larger frame calves 558x139=775.62 only $330 diff. Sadly mike I can no longer use your 5 frame bulls they are going to put me into to higher tax bracket Smile Tom

[



Yes sir reality is harsh and that is exactly what happened to me.
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Dylan Biggs



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PostSubject: Re: perception versus reality   Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:14 pm


MKeeney wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
It felt so nice to have a DV moment this morning. After showing an "educator", absentee owner/partner of an 80 cow herd the cows and a 950 lb/$1750 yearling bull for the second time in the last 4 years without selling him anything, he called back with more questions this morning that his partner thought he should have asked. I noticed him writing notes in his notebook yesterday; and it looked as if I was not his only stop..
.I told him I wasn`t in the mood to be on the witness stand again this morning answering meaningless questions about individuals instead of questions about my "program",... that I had no great bulls, and given all the questions his partner needed answered, he must be searching for a "great" one...so if they bought one from me, they were bound to be disappointed....so, I really did not want to sell them a bull...nonethe less, he "sneaked" in one question..."what does the bull weigh"? so I said, ya see, there the partner goes asking dumb questions"? Did he ask how the bulls had been fed? and of course, he did not...so I say how silly to ask weight, without asking the ration because feed, not genetics, is the primary factor of weight...
by then, he was really believing that I really wasn`t going to sell them a bull; and got off the phone rather hurriedly...independence, I bask in it`s warmth Smile
gee whiz,
had another poor experience tonight...advertized some first calf heifers with young calves at side...caller wanted to know if they met state cost-share guidelines...I said I hope so; they are good condition, size, nice udders, and raising good calves... what are the guidelines? well, pelvic measured, bred to low birth weight bulls, and vaccinated for reproductive diseases...so I asked if a calf at side could serve as a guarantee or did he need "data" {paper proof}...a bit dumbfounded by common sense, he hestitated...and I gave him a lecture Ron Paul would have been proud of...that was worth more for the soul than selling the heifers... cheers

more bad marketing news for me from over in the KY strip mine reclaimation area ; Pharo wins again Exclamation

Mike sold some steers after thanksgiving...Out of 3 frame home grown Bull on 1st calf heifers the small frames 435lb x102.50=445.87 the larger frame calves 558x139=775.62 only $330 diff. Sadly mike I can no longer use your 5 frame bulls they are going to put me into to higher tax bracket Smile Tom

[



Mike, were the larger frame calves from 1st calf heifers also?
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: perception versus reality   Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:53 pm

No, I`m sure they were from cows; so lots of maternal influence in the difference in weaning weights; obviously ,more so than genetic growth differences in the bulls...what Tom is rebuffing is the papal edict that small frame calves bring as much per pound as moderate frames...the opposite reality is no revelation to cattlemen of course..
WT, several of us fell for the idea we could sacrifice some steer price to gain advantage from a small framed, fatter cow...that turned out to be a fallacy as well...straying from the middle of what was once an Angus breed; we lost on both the steer and cow side of the equation...
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Dylan Biggs



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PostSubject: Re: perception versus reality   Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:08 pm

MKeeney wrote:
No, I`m sure they were from cows; so lots of maternal influence in the difference in weaning weights; obviously ,more so than genetic growth differences in the bulls...what Tom is rebuffing is the papal edict that small frame calves bring as much per pound as moderate frames...the opposite reality is no revelation to cattlemen of course..
WT, several of us fell for the idea we could sacrifice some steer price to gain advantage from a small framed, fatter cow...that turned out to be a fallacy as well...straying from the middle of what was once an Angus breed; we lost on both the steer and cow side of the equation...

Mike when we were selling small frames we got a very consistent $/lb discount. The school of hard knocks is an effective instructor though. Smile
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Bob H



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PostSubject: Re: perception versus reality   Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:20 pm

If you realy want to learn about discounts feed them youself and get an education. Bob H
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Dylan Biggs



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PostSubject: Re: perception versus reality   Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:04 pm

We did that also, and like you say it was very educational.
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PostSubject: Re: perception versus reality   Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:23 pm

Dylan Biggs wrote:
We did that also, and like you say it was very educational.

Well it looks like a lot of us had to learn the same dam lesson the hard way. I guess the moral of the story was it doesn't matter what color of cool-aid you put in a jar of piss it is still piss and we drank the dam piss. Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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