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 COOL OUT ???

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MKeeney
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PostSubject: COOL OUT ???   Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:58 am

COOLED OUT



There has never been any prohibition to marketing beef with a USA brand and representing the product as born and raised in the USA. Patriotism is good and appealing to chauvinistic emotions is a frequent and successful marketing tool. The beauty of our economic system is the freedom to explore and exploit any ideas or business plans deemed meritorious and let the marketplace decide the results.



This fact made the proposal to force all beef to be labeled as to country of origin puzzling and problematic. The law was passed by politicians with little or no knowledge of the ramification and against a majority of opposition in the industry. The predictions of those in the industry were validated as the law was implemented. A new layer of cost was added to beef processing in order to segregate and label the beef. This cost was passed along to beef producers in the order of a $40/head deduction from sales proceeds for all foreign cattle processed. Separate from the cost in the beef plants, costly segregation practices were put into place at every level of production from grazing to feedlots. The costs amounted to and is amounting to billions of dollars without any added value to compensate.



COOL could not have come at a worse time for the industry faced with a national herd in decline. Foreign cattle owners, finding steep discounts to export Canadian and Mexican cattle, began to hold on to more of their cattle and find ways to finish them at home. This accelerated the shortage of feeder supplies in the U.S. and squeezed margins for all sectors of production except breeding. The ultimate danger to our industry is pricing our beef out of the market and well over competing meats.



It was a blessing when the World Trade Organization made final a ruling that COOL not only was an unfair trade barrier, but also was prejudicial to fair trade. The WTO had already issued a preliminary ruling and the final ruling was not a surprise. The government has 60 days to appeal. U.S. industry associations were quick to urge the government not to appeal the ruling and stop COOL.



It is no surprise that supporters of COOL never took the time or effort to consider the natural and predictable outcome of this legislation. Now after billions of dollars of wasted money with confused consumers, and aggravated producers, the time has come for an end to this mistake. The government has better ways to spend its money.

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Dylan Biggs



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PostSubject: Re: COOL OUT ???   Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:54 pm

In the immortal words of Gomer Pyle, Suurpriiise, Suurpriiise, Suurpriiise!
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: COOL OUT ???   Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:02 pm

Dylan Biggs wrote:
In the immortal words of Gomer Pyle, Suurpriiise, Suurpriiise, Suurpriiise!
my little heart rythm pill costs $2.70 each here in the US....$.30 each ordered from Canada...what gives?
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Dylan Biggs



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PostSubject: Re: COOL OUT ???   Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:17 pm

MKeeney wrote:
Dylan Biggs wrote:
In the immortal words of Gomer Pyle, Suurpriiise, Suurpriiise, Suurpriiise!
my little heart rythm pill costs $2.70 each here in the US....$.30 each ordered from Canada...what gives?

The rythm in Canada is most certainly of suspect quality. Smile
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: COOL OUT ???   Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:26 pm

Dylan Biggs wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
Dylan Biggs wrote:
In the immortal words of Gomer Pyle, Suurpriiise, Suurpriiise, Suurpriiise!
my little heart rythm pill costs $2.70 each here in the US....$.30 each ordered from Canada...what gives?

The rythm in Canada is most certainly of suspect quality. Smile
maybe all I need is a placebo Smile
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Dylan Biggs



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PostSubject: Re: COOL OUT ???   Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:28 pm

MKeeney wrote:
Dylan Biggs wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
Dylan Biggs wrote:
In the immortal words of Gomer Pyle, Suurpriiise, Suurpriiise, Suurpriiise!
my little heart rythm pill costs $2.70 each here in the US....$.30 each ordered from Canada...what gives?

The rythm in Canada is most certainly of suspect quality. Smile
maybe all I need is a placebo Smile

$.30 should get you that at least.
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Oldtimer

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PostSubject: Re: COOL OUT ???   Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:46 pm

The saddest part of this decision was its one more piece of sovereignty that our government gives away...With the signature of every foreign treaty and agreement- our government and our lawmakers lose/give away one more spoke in the decision/law making process of/for the people of this country- and puts us more and more at the control/mercy of foreign governments and entities....
I still haven't found the part in the Constitution that says we as a country should/can give up our lawmaking abilities to foreign entities...
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: COOL OUT ???   Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:07 am

Oldtimer wrote:
The saddest part of this decision was its one more piece of sovereignty that our government gives away...With the signature of every foreign treaty and agreement- our government and our lawmakers lose/give away one more spoke in the decision/law making process of/for the people of this country- and puts us more and more at the control/mercy of foreign governments and entities....
I still haven't found the part in the Constitution that says we as a country should/can give up our lawmaking abilities to foreign entities...

This wasn't foreign Governments and entities causing the problem it was you and your dumbass R-CALF buddies. Pleased to see it come back to bite you in the ass.
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tulip



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PostSubject: Re: COOL OUT ???   Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:35 am

Whats wrong guys? Just drink the COOL-AID
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Dylan Biggs



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PostSubject: Re: COOL OUT ???   Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:31 am

Oldtimer wrote:
The saddest part of this decision was its one more piece of sovereignty that our government gives away...With the signature of every foreign treaty and agreement- our government and our lawmakers lose/give away one more spoke in the decision/law making process of/for the people of this country- and puts us more and more at the control/mercy of foreign governments and entities....
I still haven't found the part in the Constitution that says we as a country should/can give up our lawmaking abilities to foreign entities...

Cheer up OT, just a small taste of what US trade and foriegn policy has been serving to it's trading "partners" for years. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: COOL OUT ???   Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:51 pm

Oldtimer wrote:
The saddest part of this decision was its one more piece of sovereignty that our government gives away...With the signature of every foreign treaty and agreement- our government and our lawmakers lose/give away one more spoke in the decision/law making process of/for the people of this country- and puts us more and more at the control/mercy of foreign governments and entities....
I still haven't found the part in the Constitution that says we as a country should/can give up our lawmaking abilities to foreign entities...

I agree OT. Do you suppose they will have to take the tags off of everything else that has a country of origin label. We take it in the shorts on all these trade agreements and then when you try to force countrys to abide by the agreement THEY signed they piss an moan about unfair trade restrictions. We need a bunch of cow buyers negotiating our trade agreements for us not these limp noodles that we have.

Jack, One of the founders of R-CALF and proud of it.
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Dylan Biggs



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PostSubject: Re: COOL OUT ???   Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:02 pm

Pissing and moaning, we all do our fair share. As I recollect back in the late 80's when NAFTA was being formulated and lobbied for the US was the main driver and proponent. This set the stage for trade access rules and regulations that today govern these issues. While their will always be winners and losers I am still somewhat confused about what prevents any US born raised and processed beef from being labeleded and marketed as an American product. Why is it the role of legislators to do the job of businesses in this marketing regard. Do you want more regulation or less regulation, I guess it depends on who's axe is being sharpened.

DB
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PatB



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PostSubject: Re: COOL OUT ???   Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:07 pm

All food items should carry the country of origin regardless of where it came from.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: COOL OUT ???   Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:19 pm

patb wrote:
All food items should carry the country of origin regardless of where it came from.
why stop at country of orgin...why not farm of origin Pat?
mk, thinking any carrot worth eating is worth farm labeling
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Oldtimer

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PostSubject: Re: COOL OUT ???   Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:46 pm

Dylan Biggs wrote:
Pissing and moaning, we all do our fair share. As I recollect back in the late 80's when NAFTA was being formulated and lobbied for the US was the main driver and proponent. This set the stage for trade access rules and regulations that today govern these issues. While their will always be winners and losers I am still somewhat confused about what prevents any US born raised and processed beef from being labeleded and marketed as an American product. Why is it the role of legislators to do the job of businesses in this marketing regard. Do you want more regulation or less regulation, I guess it depends on who's axe is being sharpened.

DB

Dylan- that was tried in a neighboring county a few years back....Several big ranchers went together, built a slaughter house, and was selling beef labeled as a US product...But since all beef (imported or domestic) has the USDA label and stamp- the major packers were passing off much cheaper imported beef to unknowing consumers as US product ...
And with consumers thinking they were getting US beef with either product- they naturally went for the cheaper product- which was actually the imports...And with no way of adding value to their labeled beef in that type of competition where the USDA rules actually were supporting a fraud- they soon closed the doors...

Much of this didn't become apparent to the consumers until the BSE issue came up- then the imported Vietnamese/Asian carp being passed off as US farm raised catfish-- and was topped by the Chinese melamine tainted foods/toothpaste- and consumers reallized there was no way to identify where the food they were eating came from... So NO way to make an informed choice...

Everything else already had to be labeled- and has had to for years-- from shorts to shoes---but not steaks- or most food products or meat..The reason they asked Congress to give them Country of Origin Labeling for their food and meat products...
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PostSubject: Re: COOL OUT ???   Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:24 pm

Old timer be quiet and drink the cool-aid before i pee in it. NAFTA sucks for us and them.... Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Its like the drug problem we have it because we use it ... cheers cheers
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Dylan Biggs



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PostSubject: Re: COOL OUT ???   Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:04 am

Oldtimer wrote:
Dylan Biggs wrote:
Pissing and moaning, we all do our fair share. As I recollect back in the late 80's when NAFTA was being formulated and lobbied for the US was the main driver and proponent. This set the stage for trade access rules and regulations that today govern these issues. While their will always be winners and losers I am still somewhat confused about what prevents any US born raised and processed beef from being labeleded and marketed as an American product. Why is it the role of legislators to do the job of businesses in this marketing regard. Do you want more regulation or less regulation, I guess it depends on who's axe is being sharpened.

DB

Dylan- that was tried in a neighboring county a few years back....Several big ranchers went together, built a slaughter house, and was selling beef labeled as a US product...But since all beef (imported or domestic) has the USDA label and stamp- the major packers were passing off much cheaper imported beef to unknowing consumers as US product ...
And with consumers thinking they were getting US beef with either product- they naturally went for the cheaper product- which was actually the imports...And with no way of adding value to their labeled beef in that type of competition where the USDA rules actually were supporting a fraud- they soon closed the doors...

Much of this didn't become apparent to the consumers until the BSE issue came up- then the imported Vietnamese/Asian carp being passed off as US farm raised catfish-- and was topped by the Chinese melamine tainted foods/toothpaste- and consumers reallized there was no way to identify where the food they were eating came from... So NO way to make an informed choice...

Everything else already had to be labeled- and has had to for years-- from shorts to shoes---but not steaks- or most food products or meat..The reason they asked Congress to give them Country of Origin Labeling for their food and meat products...

OT, without intimate specifics it is hard to for me to comment on the reason they closed there doors. But as you portray it, the extent of their efforts to differentiate their product beyond USDA approved or US product seems exceedingly deficient. Born, raised and processed is different then simply USDA or US product. Competition on price is a reality any wholesaler supplier has to deal with. The innovative suppliers will figure out how to brand their product in a manner that leaves no doubt about why the consumer should want and be willing to pay more. Their will be no question about the source and process behind the product. Relying on legislators to protect small producers and entrepreneur has an extensive track record of futility, as you know.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: COOL OUT ???   Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:14 am

Quote :
Relying on legislators to protect small producers and entrepreneur has an extensive track record of futility, as you know.

generally speaking, I don`t think the US Beef industry gets out-traded as much as they get sold out...the original R-Calf pushers here were stockyard owners/order buyers bitching about the packer monopoly...since that time, they have created a stockyard and near order buying monoploy, and doubled commissions in the process...it cost about $35/hd to sell 800 lb steers at today`s prices...
how much in everyone`s area?
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: COOL OUT ???   Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:55 am

Quote :
And with consumers thinking they were getting US beef with either product- they naturally went for the cheaper product- which was actually the imports...And with no way of adding value to their labeled beef in that type of competition where the USDA rules actually were supporting a fraud- they soon closed the doors...

More ag systems and growers have failed due to over production and under marketing than just other competition. It happens over and over and everybody always acts surprised. I don't care if it is seeds, service, live animals or meat. You have to decide how you want to market it and have some inkling of an idea what it costs to get it to a point of salability. Nobody can do it the same. That is why it has been so hard to replicate the Poliface Farm efforts across the country. A lot of failed attempts there, too.

A fellow was telling me that he finally got his annual sales in a farm grown product up to $125,000 and thought that it was good. I asked him what was his part of the total as profit. He did not have a clue. So, I asked the obvious question: the current level of his farm account, in general: higher, same, lower? It was less. So, we discussed that if he had the pleasure of a 10% profit margin, he worked all year for $12,500. (This is one of those good, honest, salt of the earth type neighbors that asks for outside thoughts and other type advice from time to time.) Gross income can be a balloon near a needle.
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PostSubject: Re: COOL OUT ???   Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:42 am

MKeeney wrote:
Quote :
Relying on legislators to protect small producers and entrepreneur has an extensive track record of futility, as you know.

generally speaking, I don`t think the US Beef industry gets out-traded as much as they get sold out...the original R-Calf pushers here were stockyard owners/order buyers bitching about the packer monopoly...since that time, they have created a stockyard and near order buying monoploy, and doubled commissions in the process...it cost about $35/hd to sell 800 lb steers at today`s prices...
how much in everyone`s area?

R-CALF was originally founded to address trade. How trade agreements were made and then enforced and how little the cattle industry had a say in those agreements. It attracted alot of people who had different axes to grind but our main goal was trade and then COOL. Since the big 3 packers controled around 80% of the kill in 1998 and they control about 85% now I really doubt you can blame R-CALF for creating that monoploy. Our biggest bitch was the dumping of cattle into the the US in the late 90's and the effect it was having on our markets. NAFTA flat said Canada and Mexico could not import cattle into the US below their own cost of production. That would be dumping. Canada and Mexico both agreed to that provision when they signed NAFTA. We proved at the US Trade Commission that both countries were dumping but the USTC said we failed to prove what the damage was in dollars to the US cattle industry.
It took a BSE cow in 03 to prove that.

Our other bitch was that the US had then or was in the process of having a trade agreement with every major beef producing country in the world but not with one of the major beef consuming countries and we wanted COOL because of the differences in the consumer safety laws.

Jack, still a believer in the origional intent of R-CALF.
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: COOL OUT ???   Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:06 am

MKeeney wrote:
Quote :
Relying on legislators to protect small producers and entrepreneur has an extensive track record of futility, as you know.

generally speaking, I don`t think the US Beef industry gets out-traded as much as they get sold out...the original R-Calf pushers here were stockyard owners/order buyers bitching about the packer monopoly...since that time, they have created a stockyard and near order buying monoploy, and doubled commissions in the process...it cost about $35/hd to sell 800 lb steers at today`s prices...
how much in everyone`s area?

My local is about the cheapest here - $15 commission on a feeder, $16 on a cow, $20 on a cull bull. The brand inspection, insurance and misc. crap adds about $3 to the cost of selling a feeder.
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: COOL OUT ???   Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:22 am

Jack McNamee wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
Quote :
Relying on legislators to protect small producers and entrepreneur has an extensive track record of futility, as you know.

generally speaking, I don`t think the US Beef industry gets out-traded as much as they get sold out...the original R-Calf pushers here were stockyard owners/order buyers bitching about the packer monopoly...since that time, they have created a stockyard and near order buying monoploy, and doubled commissions in the process...it cost about $35/hd to sell 800 lb steers at today`s prices...
how much in everyone`s area?

R-CALF was originally founded to address trade. How trade agreements were made and then enforced and how little the cattle industry had a say in those agreements. It attracted alot of people who had different axes to grind but our main goal was trade and then COOL. Since the big 3 packers controled around 80% of the kill in 1998 and they control about 85% now I really doubt you can blame R-CALF for creating that monoploy. Our biggest bitch was the dumping of cattle into the the US in the late 90's and the effect it was having on our markets. NAFTA flat said Canada and Mexico could not import cattle into the US below their own cost of production. That would be dumping. Canada and Mexico both agreed to that provision when they signed NAFTA. We proved at the US Trade Commission that both countries were dumping but the USTC said we failed to prove what the damage was in dollars to the US cattle industry.
It took a BSE cow in 03 to prove that.

Our other bitch was that the US had then or was in the process of having a trade agreement with every major beef producing country in the world but not with one of the major beef consuming countries and we wanted COOL because of the differences in the consumer safety laws.

Jack, still a believer in the origional intent of R-CALF.



I think R-CALF did some good work on the packer control issue. Unfortunately they seemed to throw all that out the window after BSE in Canada in 2003 when they were only too happy to assist the packers assume complete control over the Canadian industry thereby amassing huge sums of money which strengthened said packers financial clout seemingly not realising that this might come back to bite their own asses in future.
What I really have a problem with was R-CALF members (and specifically OT) spending much of 2003-2004 spreading lies about how many addition cases of BSE Canada had in addition to the ones reported. Pure and utter lies but OK as long as you were lining your pockets at other (Canadian) ranchers expense - eh OT?
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PostSubject: Re: COOL OUT ???   Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:02 am



Fill in the blips. I'll do the rest.

DV in the vicinity of the Border Cafe
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Tom D
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PostSubject: Re: COOL OUT ???   Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:53 am

"Haggis!"


"NIMBY!"
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Dylan Biggs



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PostSubject: Re: COOL OUT ???   Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:11 pm

EddieM wrote:
Quote :
And with consumers thinking they were getting US beef with either product- they naturally went for the cheaper product- which was actually the imports...And with no way of adding value to their labeled beef in that type of competition where the USDA rules actually were supporting a fraud- they soon closed the doors...

More ag systems and growers have failed due to over production and under marketing than just other competition. It happens over and over and everybody always acts surprised. I don't care if it is seeds, service, live animals or meat. You have to decide how you want to market it and have some inkling of an idea what it costs to get it to a point of salability. Nobody can do it the same. That is why it has been so hard to replicate the Poliface Farm efforts across the country. A lot of failed attempts there, too.

A fellow was telling me that he finally got his annual sales in a farm grown product up to $125,000 and thought that it was good. I asked him what was his part of the total as profit. He did not have a clue. So, I asked the obvious question: the current level of his farm account, in general: higher, same, lower? It was less. So, we discussed that if he had the pleasure of a 10% profit margin, he worked all year for $12,500. (This is one of those good, honest, salt of the earth type neighbors that asks for outside thoughts and other type advice from time to time.) Gross income can be a balloon near a needle.

Well said!

History would seem to suggest that the only solution to free ones self as a primary producer from percieved corporate and bureacratic serfdom is to take action that will put one in control as a price setter. A pile of extra work and investment, but plenty of opportunity for those prepared to take the resposibility. The role of victim which can be logically rationalized and justifiably argued is in the end as powerless and futile as the recent Occupy movement.
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