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 Trait Priorities

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SOWBOY



Posts : 19
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Trait Priorities   Sat Sep 25, 2010 12:11 am

Trait Priorities: With the exception of my USMC stint from 1961- 1968, I have been doing this animal breeding thing since 1955. Attempting to analyze my learned methods has been some of my recent reflections. My high school "fatstock" judging coach suggested that when traveling we should evaluate every animal viewed along the by-ways of east central Illinois. Presently I have a type in mind that must exist so as to proceed to further evaluations. Skeletal balance and ease ease of movement is where it starts for me. Hopefully I can continue this discussion as we progress.
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PatB



Posts : 455
Join date : 2010-09-25
Age : 53
Location : Turner, Maine

PostSubject: Re: Trait Priorities   Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:31 am

Major trait is disposition follow by fertility (weans acceptable calf). Then comes secondary traits, feet, legs, udder, appearance, growth, do-ability(survive under my management style).
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EddieM



Posts : 895
Join date : 2010-09-24
Location : South Carolina

PostSubject: Re: Trait Priorities   Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:04 pm

Hello all and thanks to Mike for his efforts to advance thought. Ability to replicate is a key trait that I am still trying to figure if it is a trait that can be selected or bred. I've discussed the small cow with Mike that seems to do everything well but then the years go by and no daughter replaces her. Like the question of EXT and no sons every able to replace him. Was he that useful after all without an ability to replicate himself?
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SOWBOY



Posts : 19
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: Trait Priorities   Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:45 pm

EddieM wrote:
Hello all and thanks to Mike for his efforts to advance thought. Ability to replicate is a key trait that I am still trying to figure if it is a trait that can be selected or bred. I've discussed the small cow with Mike that seems to do everything well but then the years go by and no daughter replaces her. Like the question of EXT and no sons every able to replace him. Was he that useful after all without an ability to replicate himself?
Eddie: Trying to replicate a "great one" has been the goal of many. I have never seen it happen. In the middle 70's I owned a Landrace sow that that produced multiple winners and champions. In 4 litters (same mating) 50 pigs and $50,000 later I was puzzled that none of the individuals were phenotypically similar. The next 35 years I used 3 of her sons, a littermate sister, and a 3/4 sister all with progeny from a singe original sire. Now over 50 generations later obvious variation stll presents itself. Yes this population has a similar and a unique type, but no "clones". Recombination has a myriad of possibilities. Do these experiences discourage my pursuits involving inbreeding and line breeding? Absolutely not! MikeL
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EddieM



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Location : South Carolina

PostSubject: Re: Trait Priorities   Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:21 pm

If the "great one" never gets created again, can you shift to a maternal quest only or a terminal quest only and reproduce an imbalanced type that replicates itself? I'm assuming that the average individual is the easiest to increase. Should we just settle for making a higher percentage of slightly above average individuals and call it quits on "more is better? Does this require the removal of the below average or will we miss the next Balboa?
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Trait Priorities   Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:16 am

EddieM wrote:
Hello all and thanks to Mike for his efforts to advance thought. Ability to replicate is a key trait that I am still trying to figure if it is a trait that can be selected or bred. I've discussed the small cow with Mike that seems to do everything well but then the years go by and no daughter replaces her. Like the question of EXT and no sons every able to replace him. Was he that useful after all without an ability to replicate himself?
if you don`t how you got an animal, how can we make another to replace it? well, I used to think linebreed...now I think I know how we got that superior animal...by chance Smile so how do we increase our chances; Larry told me it is a flip of a coin, but what if we could flip a coin that was heads on both sides ?{homozygousity} so linebreed is still the answer?
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PatB



Posts : 455
Join date : 2010-09-25
Age : 53
Location : Turner, Maine

PostSubject: Re: Trait Priorities   Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:36 am

EddieM wrote:
Hello all and thanks to Mike for his efforts to advance thought. Ability to replicate is a key trait that I am still trying to figure if it is a trait that can be selected or bred. I've discussed the small cow with Mike that seems to do everything well but then the years go by and no daughter replaces her. Like the question of EXT and no sons every able to replace him. Was he that useful after all without an ability to replicate himself?

Did EXT make daughters like his dam?
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Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Trait Priorities   Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:37 am

I would guess that my trait priorities are, at the present time, do to a full time job as an FFA advisor:

Calving ease
Good udders
fertility
ability to flesh on grass... for the Grass-fed beef niche we are occupying
disposition

If I was no longer employed as an ag teacher. (Eligible for early retirement in 2012) I don't really see those priorities changing in any meaningful way.

What I fear and more than halfway suspect, is that the fleshing ease thing interferes with the fertility thing.

My cows, or at least my older cows, are not the fleshing ease type, they have been the fertile type. In the past 10 years I have brought down the frame size to about 5 and I don't really want to go any lower than that. I have plenty of growth in the cattle, growth as I pointed out in my previous life on 5 bar X as Kmacginley is probably fine in the majority of the angus cattle, it is the non-measured traits that may be lacking.

And then there is the I like looking at them factor...

GAR type cattle may be all that for carcass and terminal traits, but they are some ugly cattle, in my opinion.



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EddieM



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Location : South Carolina

PostSubject: Re: Trait Priorities   Sun Sep 26, 2010 2:26 pm

Quote :
Did EXT make daughters like his dam?

I really don't know. I never experienced the bull, or any offspring except at other folks' farms, fairs, etc. Once I heard aout the disposition, I ran the other way like I had a disposition problem! And now you know that I really do!! Shocked
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Trait Priorities   Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:15 pm

EddieM wrote:
Quote :
Did EXT make daughters like his dam?

I really don't know. I never experienced the bull, or any offspring except at other folks' farms, fairs, etc. Once I heard aout the disposition, I ran the other way like I had a disposition problem! And now you know that I really do!! Shocked
Nature creates some rarity along just in case she might need it... sellers like rarity; far easier to sell rarity than build demand for abundant goodness...
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Kent Powell



Posts : 606
Join date : 2010-09-24
Location : SW Kansas

PostSubject: Re: Trait Priorities   Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:47 pm

EddieM wrote:
Hello all and thanks to Mike for his efforts to advance thought. Ability to replicate is a key trait that I am still trying to figure if it is a trait that can be selected or bred. I've discussed the small cow with Mike that seems to do everything well but then the years go by and no daughter replaces her. Like the question of EXT and no sons every able to replace him. Was he that useful after all without an ability to replicate himself?

Was Ext unable to replicate himself, or did they revert to what the pedigree would indicate they should be?
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MKeeney
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Posts : 4600
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PostSubject: Re: Trait Priorities   Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:48 am

Keystone wrote:
EddieM wrote:
Hello all and thanks to Mike for his efforts to advance thought. Ability to replicate is a key trait that I am still trying to figure if it is a trait that can be selected or bred. I've discussed the small cow with Mike that seems to do everything well but then the years go by and no daughter replaces her. Like the question of EXT and no sons every able to replace him. Was he that useful after all without an ability to replicate himself?

Was Ext unable to replicate himself, or did they revert to what the pedigree would indicate they should be?
Don`t you think likely both? We get these "carrots " that make us think we can have this kind that defies antagonisms all the time...or maybe he wasn`t replicated because everyone wants even more of an individual?
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Trait Priorities   Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:17 am

SOWBOY wrote:
Trait Priorities: With the exception of my USMC stint from 1961- 1968, I have been doing this animal breeding thing since 1955. Attempting to analyze my learned methods has been some of my recent reflections. My high school "fatstock" judging coach suggested that when traveling we should evaluate every animal viewed along the by-ways of east central Illinois. Presently I have a type in mind that must exist so as to proceed to further evaluations. Skeletal balance and ease ease of movement is where it starts for me. Hopefully I can continue this discussion as we progress.

the dam of sniffthewind , 14 years old, breezed past me the other day too fast to get the camera set to moving pictures, so I caught her with a still...I think she is a model type of fertility and production; her produce back up those assertions...a 1400 lb cow, with a 600lb heifer this year ...nope, 50% weaning percentage is rarely ever seen here...or anywhere I visit registered herds...
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norcal



Posts : 8
Join date : 2010-10-04

PostSubject: Re: Trait Priorities   Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:18 pm

interesting comment on the 50% of body weight weaned.... most commonly that happens on male calves born early in the breeding season (at least in my experience - which is limited).... had a guy tell me one time that if a cow doesn't wean better than 50% of her body weight then she oughta be a recip.... my response was, i guess i had a herd full of recips..... seems to be a more common "promotional" figure these days.....
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Trait Priorities   Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:15 pm

norcal wrote:
interesting comment on the 50% of body weight weaned.... most commonly that happens on male calves born early in the breeding season (at least in my experience - which is limited).... had a guy tell me one time that if a cow doesn't wean better than 50% of her body weight then she oughta be a recip.... my response was, i guess i had a herd full of recips..... seems to be a more common "promotional" figure these days.....
quite a compliment to have a herd of recip cows; they do the work, while most of the flush cows in the business are loafers
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