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 Why would it matter?

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Jeremiahjohnson



Posts : 9
Join date : 2011-10-15

PostSubject: Why would it matter?   Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:54 am

I have been reading posts about linebreeding. Why would aCommercial person care if his cows are linebreed? Breed them to another breed and get some weight for free. We run 80% Herefords and the remaining are black angus. Our resulting angus calves are far smaller than the cross cattle, but we try to retain only from the straight blacks as replacements. It is that simple, so why concentrate so hard on linebreeding/inbreeding. That sounds like a bunch more time and a spin of the wheel.

In the vicinity of getting my scronny butt out of the house!
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PostSubject: Re: Why would it matter?   Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:46 am

Go read Reflections From LL. Read all 58 pages. You will get most of your questions answered that you have. You'll have a bunch of new questions but you will at least be kinda caught up.

Jack, tryin to help Liver Eater catch up.
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EddieM



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Location : South Carolina

PostSubject: Re: Why would it matter?   Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:59 am

Quote :
get some weight for free

Are you sure?

Quote :
Why would a commercial person care if his cows are linebreed?

JJ, why would he care if they were not linebred? Not a problem of the seedstock producer to know what he is doing but an educational opportunity for the commercial guy to learn about what he is doing.
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Jeremiahjohnson



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PostSubject: Re: Why would it matter?   Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:25 am

I am 100% sure it is free!!! I will always get close to 20% more weight from the Hereford crosses than my straight blacks. The bonus part is that those Herefords are way cheaper than the blacks. Compared to blacks it's like buy one get one free. It's simple!!!
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Tom D
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PostSubject: Re: Why would it matter?   Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:36 am

Simple is as simple does, Forrest.

TD, seeing the Forrest through the trees.
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: Why would it matter?   Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:52 am

Quote :
I will always get close to 20% more weight from the Hereford crosses than my straight blacks.

And they don't eat anymore and the extra weight just comes right out of the air! Wow, that is wonderful and should make the beauty, Mrs. JJ, real happy.

Quote :
JJ, why would he care if they were not linebred? Not a problem of the seedstock producer to know what he is doing but an educational opportunity for the commercial guy to learn about what he is doing.

I'm here to learn, too. Fill me in. I'm more into sheep racing and talking bull pictures.
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PostSubject: Re: Why would it matter?   Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:09 pm

Jeremiahjohnson wrote:
I am 100% sure it is free!!! I will always get close to 20% more weight from the Hereford crosses than my straight blacks. The bonus part is that those Herefords are way cheaper than the blacks. Compared to blacks it's like buy one get one free. It's simple!!!
20% free That's quite a stretch from 550lb calf to 687lb calf......Or do you call that value added. I call it something else.
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PostSubject: Re: Why would it matter?   Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:22 pm

Indeed, back to where the reflective and futuristic things happen, and Jack gives wonderful advice.

I have a question for You, Mr. or is it Mrs. JJ,(I can't stay straight, er keep up, er uh, crap)----How do you have Breeds, without Linebreeding?
If noone linebreeds, how do you crossbreed?


Bootheel, having trouble staying reflective and futuristic
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RobertMac



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Location : Mississippi, USA

PostSubject: Re: Why would it matter?   Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:51 pm

The un-answered, un-thought about questions...brilliant, Bootheel!

JJ, if you like that "free 20%" from the angus/hereford cross, why not a Brahman bull and get more of that stuff(what ever W.T wants to call it affraid )??
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Jeremiahjohnson



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PostSubject: Re: Why would it matter?   Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:11 pm

If you try it, it may surprise you! Last years straight blacks weighted 552 and the Hereford crosses weighted 699. So it works for us and that is all that matters. We had a stray char come thru last year and had his way with a few cows and I will no more about that when we ship. They are much larger than the blacks, but we will get docked because of color.

So because they eat a little more grass which they probably do! Are you saying that there value goes down enough that the huge weaning weight difference is erased? I hardly think so!!

The baldies are rarely kept for replacements, because the heterosis is already taken and the resulting calves no longer compare. Also those baldies have a real problem with prolapse.

I have been reading the 50 some page topic from LL and it is interesting. Thanks

In the vicinity of the smoking hot Mrs Johnson, and don't be jealous.

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PostSubject: Re: Why would it matter?   Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:48 pm

Ain"t Nothing FREE. Did they drink more milk, did they eat more grass. Yes they will be bigger but not for FREE. Don't need Mrs Johnson Got better right here. Most prolapsing Herefords were culled in the 90's you must have some throw backs to the good old days. Out here a char calf will top the sale if they are any good. Tried it many times and everything has a price yes crossbreeding is magic but it AIN"T FREE. And it sure wouldn't be magic without some fool line breeding some cows some where along the line, I think they call that a breed. If i remember
right Old Liver eater got his name from eating crow liver. Can you answer that....... WHAT DOES IT TASTE LIKE?


Last edited by W.T on Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Why would it matter?   Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:56 pm

Jeremiahjohnson wrote:
If you try it, it may surprise you! Last years straight blacks weighted 552 and the Hereford crosses weighted 699. So it works for us and that is all that matters. We had a stray char come thru last year and had his way with a few cows and I will no more about that when we ship. They are much larger than the blacks, but we will get docked because of color.

So because they eat a little more grass which they probably do! Are you saying that there value goes down enough that the huge weaning weight difference is erased? I hardly think so!!

The baldies are rarely kept for replacements, because the heterosis is already taken and the resulting calves no longer compare. Also those baldies have a real problem with prolapse.

I have been reading the 50 some page topic from LL and it is interesting. Thanks

In the vicinity of the smoking hot Mrs Johnson, and don't be jealous.


JJ, you`re not dealing here with a bunch of Glen Campbell linemen for the county ...if you wanna play like a cattleman here to amuse yourself and us; you best get plausible quickly...although it is true in the darwinist registered breeder paradigm, there is no extra cost for extra lbs...hell, there`s no cost at all if you don`t pay for your cattle to begin with...
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MVCatt



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PostSubject: Re: Why would it matter?   Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:00 pm

Jeremiahjohnson wrote:
The baldies are rarely kept for replacements, because the heterosis is already taken

It may have been taken sooner than you think.
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PostSubject: Re: Why would it matter?   Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:04 pm

Wow 699 versus 552, now that is truly amazing on an British breed cross.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Why would it matter?   Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:09 pm

Gregory Walker wrote:
Wow 699 versus 552, now that is truly amazing on an British breed cross.

Clay center better redo those across breed epd`s ... Smile JJ may be getting in the Black Hereford business; getting his promotion started early Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Why would it matter?   Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:17 pm

MKeeney wrote:
Gregory Walker wrote:
Wow 699 versus 552, now that is truly amazing on an British breed cross.

Clay center better redo those across breed epd`s ... Smile JJ may be getting in the Black Hereford business; getting his promotion started early Smile

I Think JJ is in another business altogether. No No Somebody help me here what do you call that------------?
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Tom D
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PostSubject: Re: Why would it matter?   Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:28 pm

I thought I had it figured out, but now I'm as confused as you Bootheel. I'm outta here, you're back to holding your own Johnson. (Like Jack does).

TD, wondering how a cow-chat soap opera has taken over my life. Sad, very sad.
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PostSubject: Re: Why would it matter?   Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:39 pm


"Clay center better redo those across breed epd`s ... JJ may be getting in the Black Hereford business; getting his promotion started early "

Right, but what puzzles me is that he must be using a Vindicator son to get those pesky prolapsing baldies...
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Tom D
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PostSubject: Re: Why would it matter?   Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:57 pm

Hey Dennis G. you like crown, huh? Jack likes crown, I like crown, and Bootheel will drink anything. Wanna go out with us sometime sweetheart?

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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: Why would it matter?   Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:35 am

Quote :
So because they eat a little more grass which they probably do! Are you saying that there value goes down enough that the huge weaning weight difference is erased? I hardly think so!!

And keep track of the breed back on those cows weaning the big calves. I'm guessing that more will come up open. That is not a cost savings. If the baldies grow so much better, it sounds like the Angus have little growth potential: more of a Fay-Row cooperator type cattle except the calves grow too good. Scratch that idea!

Quote :
Right, but what puzzles me is that he must be using a Vindicator son to get those pesky prolapsing baldies...

I'd bet that some good linebreeding a few generations back could have eliminated the prolapse issue with a good cattleman at the helm.
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Jeremiahjohnson



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Join date : 2011-10-15

PostSubject: Re: Why would it matter?   Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:14 am

What ever Fay Row means? Is 550 lbs a small calf? It's is what we get and we are happy. As for the prolapses it is genetics and we are weeding it out. As for breedback it is hardly a concern ever!
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: Why would it matter?   Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:21 am

Quote :
As for breedback it is hardly a concern ever!

It's a wonderful life.
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Jeremiahjohnson



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PostSubject: Re: Why would it matter?   Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:39 am

Yes it is. You should give it a try, instead of picking apart everything. Shipping those big calves today, so best wishes and have a great day!!
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RobertMac



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PostSubject: Re: Why would it matter?   Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:39 am

JJ, I bet everyone is wanting to know where you get your Hereford replacements?
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Jeremiahjohnson



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PostSubject: Re: Why would it matter?   Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:54 pm

On bad years for getting heifer calves we would keep a few of the baldies. There are very few left and never kept any this year. A matter of fact never kept a single replacement today. Everything went on the truck and good ridens for that kind of money!!
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