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 How broad is your breed?

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Kent Powell



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PostSubject: Re: How broad is your breed?    Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:39 am

I don't understand how a pedigree generated calculation can be perturbing. Was Bonsma concerned about theoretical perturberances?
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RobertMac



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PostSubject: Re: How broad is your breed?    Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:01 am

MKeeney wrote:
RobertMac wrote:
Quote :
They began with the intent to produce a female that fits the environment and is highly reproductive. They have done well with that goal as well as done an excellent job of producing steer mates that are very effective at converting feed. As with anything there are draw backs to selecting for specific traits, their cattle have trouble grading. So they have highly productive, low cost females, steers that blow the doors off the competition for feed conversion, but they can not produce a carcass that grades as well as they would like.
This quote by flyingS got me to thinking...
Prime carcasses make up only about 3% or less of the carcasses harvested. Is the animal that produces a Prime carcass an outlier?
in selection in the wild, it probably is...in breeding herds, it doesn`t have to be, if marbling is your trait direction...
Less than 3%...a trait direction?
Maybe we need more Jersey?
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: How broad is your breed?    Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:07 am

RobertMac wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
RobertMac wrote:
Quote :
They began with the intent to produce a female that fits the environment and is highly reproductive. They have done well with that goal as well as done an excellent job of producing steer mates that are very effective at converting feed. As with anything there are draw backs to selecting for specific traits, their cattle have trouble grading. So they have highly productive, low cost females, steers that blow the doors off the competition for feed conversion, but they can not produce a carcass that grades as well as they would like.
This quote by flyingS got me to thinking...
Prime carcasses make up only about 3% or less of the carcasses harvested. Is the animal that produces a Prime carcass an outlier?
in selection in the wild, it probably is...in breeding herds, it doesn`t have to be, if marbling is your trait direction...
Less than 3%...a trait direction?
Maybe we need more Jersey?

wagyu weren`t born with marbling, it was selected for...and prime grade is "average" in the breed...
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PostSubject: Re: How broad is your breed?    Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:28 pm

Keystone wrote:
A base of four head:




They stem from three cows


Heather 9117 11250039

S B Miss Burgess 8119 11135869

Princess of Ada 338 11886882


And One Sire

Stoneybroke Son G699 12837202


http://www.angusjournal.com/articlepdf/06-0785_emulousline.pdf

what are the merits you have observed so far that entice you to make a breed based on these four? what value is prepotency? all I can ever answer with is "if a broad breed has merit, why not a more defined breed within that breed"?
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Kent Powell



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PostSubject: Re: How broad is your breed?    Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:03 am

I've only had them 13 years. We are just getting to know each other.



They are just cows. Pretty problem free, easy going, nice udders, intelligent. While they are remnants of selection for high gain, muscle, and leaness on the bull side, they are middle of the road to a little below average in my herd in size and production. Sure enough good enough. They are a pretty uniform bunch. What more do they need?







Outcrossed, they are impressive. Big, productive cows that raise big calves.



I didn't have the opportunity for Carlton to advise me, so I bought all I could get and let them sort themselves out over time, the best I knew how. When time was running short, I picked two cows who pleased me a little more than the rest.



A third cow had two calves from multiple sire groups who happened to be by her brother. A daughter and grandaughter are next on the flush list.



The reason I flushed a couple cows was to keep the line going long enough to find out what they were and what they could do. Anyone can destroy the lifetime of work a breeder has put into a set of cattle. Rather than reinvent the wheel, I am observing them and exploring their appropriate commercial application.


Last edited by Keystone on Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: How broad is your breed?    Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:12 am

Keystone wrote:
I've only had them 13 years. We are just getting to know each other.



They are just cows. Pretty problem free, easy going, nice udders, intelligent. While they are remnants of selection for high gain, muscle, and leaness on the bull side, they are middle of the road to a little below average in my herd in size and production. Sure enough good enough. They are a pretty uniform bunch. What more do they need?







Outcrossed, they are impressive. Big, productive cows that raise big calves.



I didn't have the opportunity for Carlton to advise me, so I bought all I could get and let them sort themselves out over time, the best I knew how. When time was running short, I picked two cows who pleased me a little more than the rest.



A third cow had two calves from multiple sire groups who happened to be by her brother. A daughter and grandaughter are next on the flush list.



The reason I flushed a couple cows was to keep the line going long enough to find out what they were and what they could do. Anyone can destroy the lifetime of work of a breeder has put into a set of cattle. Rather than reinvent the wheel, I am observing them and exploring their appropriate commercial application.

I am reminded of Falloon`s 120 year plan of continued biological progress...there isn`t enough time for everyone to start anew, reinventing the wheel, and create new flaws all over again under the pretense of "adding" things...instead, we can build on others work, multiplying it, and mending flaws as we find them...
another Falloon statement to me..."not everyone needs to be doing the same thing"...and I`ll add, if we are doing the same thing, I don`t think it needs to be with the same cattle...
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Kent Powell



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PostSubject: Re: How broad is your breed?    Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:30 am

Why can't we just breed good cattle?



I would like 1,000 cows just like the handful I have now.

Just good cattle for salt of the good people.
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PostSubject: Re: How broad is your breed?    Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:51 pm

Keystone wrote:
I don't understand how a pedigree generated calculation can be perturbing. Was Bonsma concerned about theoretical perturberances?

That; and I`m thinking he was more than likely concerned along the same idea of Falloon , that inbreeding would decrease performance...another breed formed without separation of production and parent stock...
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Kent Powell



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PostSubject: Re: How broad is your breed?    Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:04 pm

I figure heterosis is always available to add.
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PostSubject: Re: How broad is your breed?    Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:49 pm

Keystone wrote:
I figure heterosis is always available to add.
the hoped for cure-all is just a cross away...but with a co-operative effort, the correct cure is just a cross away...
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PostSubject: Re: How broad is your breed?    Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:53 pm

MKeeney wrote:
Keystone wrote:
I figure heterosis is always available to add.
the hoped for cure-all is just a cross away...but with a co-operative effort, the correct cure is just a cross away...you mentioned a longing for a 1000 cows just like the basis of "your breed"...getting there is the easy and fun part; staying there may be more difficult...changing things is soo easy, I don`t even call it breeding, just changing; though undoubtedly, some are better changers than others...stability; now that`s breeding
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PostSubject: Re: How broad is your breed?    Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:06 am

Keystone wrote:
I've only had them 13 years. We are just getting to know each other.



They are just cows. Pretty problem free, easy going, nice udders, intelligent. While they are remnants of selection for high gain, muscle, and leaness on the bull side, they are middle of the road to a little below average in my herd in size and production. Sure enough good enough. They are a pretty uniform bunch. What more do they need?







Outcrossed, they are impressive. Big, productive cows that raise big calves.



I didn't have the opportunity for Carlton to advise me, so I bought all I could get and let them sort themselves out over time, the best I knew how. When time was running short, I picked two cows who pleased me a little more than the rest.



A third cow had two calves from multiple sire groups who happened to be by her brother. A daughter and grandaughter are next on the flush list.



The reason I flushed a couple cows was to keep the line going long enough to find out what they were and what they could do. Anyone can destroy the lifetime of work a breeder has put into a set of cattle. Rather than reinvent the wheel, I am observing them and exploring their appropriate commercial application.

this note from DV the other day...

I see your old Shoshone Encore 6310 bull almost every day. He's doing fine and what the hell is he now? 25? He's still a good breeder however old he is.
DV

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PostSubject: Re: How broad is your breed?    Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:10 pm

Does this theory apply to selling for less? Smile

A young boy enters a barber shop and the barber whispers to his customer, "This is the dumbest kid in the world. Watch while I prove it to you."

The barber puts a dollar bill in one hand and two quarters in the other, then calls the boy over and asks, "Which do you want, son?"

The boy takes the quarters and leaves.

"What did I tell you?" said the barber. "That kid never learns!"

Later, when the customer leaves, he sees the same young boy coming out of the ice cream store. "Hey, son! May I ask you a question? Why did you take the quarters instead of the dollar bill?"

The boy licked his cone and replied, "Because the day I take the dollar, the game's over!"

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PostSubject: Re: How broad is your breed?    Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:49 pm

The question was raised to me today about avoiding the habit of selecting "outliers" when consistency and stabalization of type is the goal instead of the ole performance game....isn`t the best solution just close a useful, narrow population and then even selecting outliers, you aren`t likely to change things much...
Pinebank41/97 was born in 1997 and is 65 yw...three unproven Pinebank bulls born in 2010 are now highest; 5, 10, and 11 lbs heavier than 41/97 on 400 day wt in a herd purposedly selecting outliers...and I would say changing the herd very little...
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PostSubject: Re: How broad is your breed?    Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:56 pm

OR

The Objective females out of Predestined daughters has proven to be a magic cross for mine and several other programs. Even a lot of the anti-Objective guys are fans of these females. For us, Objective has given them a shot of growth, adds a tick of frame, sweetens the patterns, cleans up the front ends, improves the udder quality, and puts some fire in those lazy old Predestined daughters. Nothing is perfect, but I really like this cross for females.
Ho, ho, ho

It's magic you know

Never believe, it's not so

It's magic, you know

Never believe, it's not so

E.L.O. - OH OH IT'S MAGIC LYRICS

After the magic show, what next??????
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Mean Spirit



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PostSubject: Re: How broad is your breed?    Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:52 am

Mike, the after show conduct goes something like this, as I understand it...

then after the show its the after party
and after the party its the hotel lobby
and round about 4 you gotta clear the lobby
then head take it to the room and freak somebody.

So sez R. Kelly in the Remix of Ignition.

Who knew R. had so much insight into the purebred cattle business? He even knew that, after the magic show, someone is going to get taken to the room and freaked.

MS, still here, in the vicinity of a bit too much stuff to do.

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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: How broad is your breed?    Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:22 pm

Mean Spirit wrote:
Mike, the after show conduct goes something like this, as I understand it...

then after the show its the after party
and after the party its the hotel lobby
and round about 4 you gotta clear the lobby
then head take it to the room and freak somebody.

So sez R. Kelly in the Remix of Ignition.

Who knew R. had so much insight into the purebred cattle business? He even knew that, after the magic show, someone is going to get taken to the room and freaked.

MS, still here, in the vicinity of a bit too much stuff to do.


MS,
It seems the registered business is so mush easier to set to music than it is to an index...still employed in the beltway?
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Mean Spirit



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PostSubject: Re: How broad is your breed?    Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:30 pm

Still here in Northern VA now, doing alot of work in NC, spending lots of time traveling between the two places and figuring out how to move to NC permanently.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: How broad is your breed?    Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:02 pm

these scientists think they have created a first...a 6 breed animal...hell, Angus breeders did that long ago... Smile

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2082834/Miracle-chimeric-monkeys-cells-animals-spark-protests.html
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PostSubject: Re: How broad is your breed?    Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:15 pm

I want to draw a line in the sand and define how board Scott`s breed is...

Scott Shively is a marketer and multiplier of Scotch and Earl Marshall Angus cattle...




whoops, the beach ain`t big enough
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