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 Cole Creek cedar ridge 1v

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PatB



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PostSubject: Re: Cole Creek cedar ridge 1v   Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:09 pm

Dennis Voss wrote:
patb, you are a good sport, DV

The answer I got was worth it like I thought it would be. Very Happy I also talk with Greg Golden about the bull and was impressed by his answers not the usual marketing BS. Very Happy Will be placeing and order for semen shortly.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Cole Creek cedar ridge 1v   Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:45 pm

patb wrote:
Dennis Voss wrote:
patb, you are a good sport, DV

The answer I got was worth it like I thought it would be. Very Happy I also talk with Greg Golden about the bull and was impressed by his answers not the usual marketing BS. Very Happy Will be placeing and order for semen shortly.
sounds like a good move Pat...another plus is the Jimmer has already got cows bred to him; so by the time you get ready for the outcross to cure the shortcomings, the Jimmer can clue you in on your next bull to cross to... Smile
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PatB



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PostSubject: Re: Cole Creek cedar ridge 1v   Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:06 pm

MKeeney wrote:
patb wrote:
Dennis Voss wrote:
patb, you are a good sport, DV

The answer I got was worth it like I thought it would be. Very Happy I also talk with Greg Golden about the bull and was impressed by his answers not the usual marketing BS. Very Happy Will be placeing and order for semen shortly.
sounds like a good move Pat...another plus is the Jimmer has already got cows bred to him; so by the time you get ready for the outcross to cure the shortcomings, the Jimmer can clue you in on your next bull to cross to... Smile

I beleive Jim L used the bull's sire. I needed a calving ease bull for heifers and this one sounded like he should cover that base besides it was oldtimer comments that caught my interest on this bull.
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PostSubject: Re: Cole Creek cedar ridge 1v   Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:43 pm

patb wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
patb wrote:
Dennis Voss wrote:
patb, you are a good sport, DV

The answer I got was worth it like I thought it would be. Very Happy I also talk with Greg Golden about the bull and was impressed by his answers not the usual marketing BS. Very Happy Will be placeing and order for semen shortly.
sounds like a good move Pat...another plus is the Jimmer has already got cows bred to him; so by the time you get ready for the outcross to cure the shortcomings, the Jimmer can clue you in on your next bull to cross to... Smile

I beleive Jim L used the bull's sire. I needed a calving ease bull for heifers and this one sounded like he should cover that base besides it was oldtimer comments that caught my interest on this bull.
internet approved; sounds exciting...I miss the good ole days Smile
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Cole Creek cedar ridge 1v   Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:03 am

patb wrote:
Dennis Voss wrote:
patb, you are a good sport, DV

The answer I got was worth it like I thought it would be. Very Happy I also talk with Greg Golden about the bull and was impressed by his answers not the usual marketing BS. Very Happy Will be placeing and order for semen shortly.
I am curious what wasn`t the usual BS, and what answers made you open your wallet...reading a "tough environment in Texas" website yesterday that sells bulls for $4500 plus; noticed a goodly sprinkling of framey, "hard doers" like Stockman 365, Ambush 1531, along with plenty of GAR breeding and epd`s like the cedars in the 90 range...so, it surely must be that at least some big, high growth cattle work in these "tough environments"? And if some work, what`s different about them than those that don`t work in "tough environments"?
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Cole Creek cedar ridge 1v   Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:01 pm

MKeeney wrote:
patb wrote:
Dennis Voss wrote:
patb, you are a good sport, DV

The answer I got was worth it like I thought it would be. Very Happy I also talk with Greg Golden about the bull and was impressed by his answers not the usual marketing BS. Very Happy Will be placeing and order for semen shortly.
I am curious what wasn`t the usual BS, and what answers made you open your wallet...reading a "tough environment in Texas" website yesterday that sells bulls for $4500 plus; noticed a goodly sprinkling of framey, "hard doers" like Stockman 365, Ambush 1531, along with plenty of GAR breeding and epd`s like the cedars in the 90 range...so, it surely must be that at least some big, high growth cattle work in these "tough environments"? And if some work, what`s different about them than those that don`t work in "tough environments"?
is an outlier in a herd as likely to breed his "numbers" of minus 1bw and plus 90 yw...as say a herd like GAR where those numbers more closely approach the "average"?
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Mark Day



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PostSubject: Re: Cole Creek cedar ridge 1v   Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:46 pm

Quote :
is an outlier in a herd as likely to breed his "numbers" of minus 1bw and plus 90 yw...as say a herd like GAR where those numbers more closely approach the "average"?

If you are asking would you trust an outlier calving ease bull from a herd that has an average bw meant for cows only? My answer is I would let everyone else try him first.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Cole Creek cedar ridge 1v   Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:20 am

Mark Day wrote:
Quote :
is an outlier in a herd as likely to breed his "numbers" of minus 1bw and plus 90 yw...as say a herd like GAR where those numbers more closely approach the "average"?

If you are asking would you trust an outlier calving ease bull from a herd that has an average bw meant for cows only? My answer is I would let everyone else try him first.

no, just simply is the outlier epd of a herd as likely to breed true as the same epds from a herd where the same epds are pretty much the standard of the herd...?

Does the diversity of a pedigree matter as to predicting the range of variation that makes up the epd of a trait like BW, where the variation causes problems, even though the average is acceptable?

if not, what does a pedigree tell you?

I`m suprised that Pat, being so adamant about curing defects, would use an untested bull...I would think he would insist on any outside bull having been bred to at least 16 daughters...

what is the percentage of proof of freedom from defects on 16 daughters compared to the "official" 32?

awww...all moot points I guess...quoting one of the 3J`s the bull has been leased to a bull stud...the ultimate proof of mainstream acceptance...

I notice Select Sires listing their trait leader bulls for milk...GAR New Design 5050 at 38 lb or so...I thought it was a GAR breeding goal to keep milk "average"?
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PatB



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PostSubject: Re: Cole Creek cedar ridge 1v   Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:51 am

Testing is a simple process when you have a straw of semen in the tank. If desired test have not been run by end of october then I will test the bull before use as I have done with several other sires. It is cheaper to test the sire then all the offspring. It was rumored the studs were interested but have seen nothing official about leasing the bull.
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PostSubject: Re: Cole Creek cedar ridge 1v   Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:11 am

patb wrote:
Testing is a simple process when you have a straw of semen in the tank. If desired test have not been run by end of october then I will test the bull before use as I have done with several other sires. It is cheaper to test the sire then all the offspring. It was rumored the studs were interested but have seen nothing official about leasing the bull.

what good is a test for the known defects; why wouldn`t you require a test for all ?
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Mark Day



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PostSubject: Re: Cole Creek cedar ridge 1v   Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:38 am

Isn't type to type more predictable? I think I would prefer to keep things more similar for something as important as BW. To me more similar is more predictable. I don't care if the epd's add up to be the same.
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PatB



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PostSubject: Re: Cole Creek cedar ridge 1v   Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:47 am

MKeeney wrote:
patb wrote:
Testing is a simple process when you have a straw of semen in the tank. If desired test have not been run by end of october then I will test the bull before use as I have done with several other sires. It is cheaper to test the sire then all the offspring. It was rumored the studs were interested but have seen nothing official about leasing the bull.

what good is a test for the known defects; why wouldn`t you require a test for all ?

Will sire daughter matings uncover defects that no one knows to look for or suspects? You can only use the tools you have at hand at the time of use.
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outsidethebox



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Age : 64
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PostSubject: Re: Cole Creek cedar ridge 1v   Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:14 pm

patb wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
patb wrote:
Testing is a simple process when you have a straw of semen in the tank. If desired test have not been run by end of october then I will test the bull before use as I have done with several other sires. It is cheaper to test the sire then all the offspring. It was rumored the studs were interested but have seen nothing official about leasing the bull.

what good is a test for the known defects; why wouldn`t you require a test for all ?

Will sire daughter matings uncover defects that no one knows to look for or suspects? You can only use the tools you have at hand at the time of use.

Are you serious???
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PatB



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PostSubject: Re: Cole Creek cedar ridge 1v   Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:09 am

outsidethebox wrote:
patb wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
patb wrote:
Testing is a simple process when you have a straw of semen in the tank. If desired test have not been run by end of october then I will test the bull before use as I have done with several other sires. It is cheaper to test the sire then all the offspring. It was rumored the studs were interested but have seen nothing official about leasing the bull.

what good is a test for the known defects; why wouldn`t you require a test for all ?

Will sire daughter matings uncover defects that no one knows to look for or suspects? You can only use the tools you have at hand at the time of use.

Are you serious???

will this uncover double muscling, will this uncover possible fertility issue like the holstien and jersey breed found? Sire daughter mateing should find the gross disfiguration defects such as OS and dwarfism and others of there like.
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Mark Day



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PostSubject: Re: Cole Creek cedar ridge 1v   Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:46 am

Quote :
will this uncover double muscling, will this uncover possible fertility issue like the holstien and jersey breed found? Sire daughter mateing should find the gross disfiguration defects such as OS and dwarfism and others of there like
.


I worry about a whole lot of other things when I open the gates and turn a bull out.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Cole Creek cedar ridge 1v   Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:49 pm

Mark Day wrote:
Quote :
will this uncover double muscling, will this uncover possible fertility issue like the holstien and jersey breed found? Sire daughter mateing should find the gross disfiguration defects such as OS and dwarfism and others of there like
.


I worry about a whole lot of other things when I open the gates and turn a bull out.

I don`t think anyone is too worried about preventing genetic defects ... well, on second thought, maybe they are...for most are always outcrossing...
,



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Mean Spirit



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PostSubject: Re: Cole Creek cedar ridge 1v   Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:18 pm

The Jimmer sure has a big crush on this bull, and an embarrassing mancrush on that poor Wilson man that he keeps dragging onto the chat boards. He's also crushing pretty bad on Greg Golden. I don't think I've seen Jim fall in love like this since he fell in love with Tom Elliot.

I'm touched by the whole thing. If Jim L, an old man with a temper that leads him to beat cows and a generally sour outlook on life can fall in love like this, who knows... It could happen to anybody.

MS, in the vicinity of the next great love story, happening in NW Iowa as we speak.
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Kent Powell



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PostSubject: Re: Cole Creek cedar ridge 1v   Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:20 pm

The faster they fall the harsher the scorn.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Cole Creek cedar ridge 1v   Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:30 pm

Mean Spirit wrote:
The Jimmer sure has a big crush on this bull, and an embarrassing mancrush on that poor Wilson man that he keeps dragging onto the chat boards. He's also crushing pretty bad on Greg Golden. I don't think I've seen Jim fall in love like this since he fell in love with Tom Elliot.

I'm touched by the whole thing. If Jim L, an old man with a temper that leads him to beat cows and a generally sour outlook on life can fall in love like this, who knows... It could happen to anybody.

MS, in the vicinity of the next great love story, happening in NW Iowa as we speak.

Don`t blame Jim for being unfaithful on the Elliot affair...it was Elliot that broke off the relationship by leaving the business...causes me to think back to wanting a son of some Ankonian bull so bad I bought a cow bred to the bull from Al Gore`s dad with my life`s saving... I scribbled the bull`s name on my notepads at school waiting for my prize calf to be born...instead the cow aborted, and tested positive not too long after for Brucellosis...my first experience with branding; they put a B on her jaw...oh well, I guess I helped put little AL through school ; when he wasn`t busy choppin` tobacco... Smile It was my $600 that gave him his start {trying hard to spin this positive, and it keeps getting worse Sad
MK, in the vicinity of trying to forget my jimmer days and get on with humming Nat King Cole...when I fall in love, it will be forever...
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PostSubject: Re: Cole Creek cedar ridge 1v   Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:40 pm

I couldn`t think of that cow`s name to find...but I do remember Daisy Maid...2890661...dam of my first home bred show winner...a little pedigree study shows I had linebred cattle even before johnny come latelys like Larry Leonhardt even had Angus cattle ... Smile

Daisy MaidReg: AAA 2890661
Cow
Birth Date: 12/16/1958 Tattoo: 58
Breeder: 566325 - Herbert C Todd, Elgin TN

Owner(s): 298757 - R W Keeney & Son, Nancy KY




......................... Whitney Bandolier 5 AAA 934190
............ Whitney Bandolier 533 AAA 1389071
........................ Whitney Miss Burgess 7 AAA 798332
Bandolier of Kline AAA 2243220
....................... Blakeford Majors Revelation AAA 683063
............ Majors Bell AAA 1369966
...................... Gregorys Blue Bell AAA 974486

....................... Whitney Bandolier 533 AAA 1389071
............. Bandolier of Kline AAA 2243220
........................ Majors Bell AAA 1369966
Nellie Bell AAA 2510205
...................... Linwood B 1943 AAA 751205
............ Judy Ann 8 AAA 1001891
...................... Ruth Midnight 2 AAA 441359
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Mean Spirit



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PostSubject: Re: Cole Creek cedar ridge 1v   Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:57 pm

I think the lesson in Jim bouncing back from his heartbreak at the hands of Tom Elliot is that you can always fall in love again, no matter how heartbroken you are.

MS, still in the vicinity of love in the air.
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PostSubject: Re: Cole Creek cedar ridge 1v   Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:09 am

it`s good the registered business can offer such adventure and romance...reminded me of when I used to listen to the Cisco Kid on the radio...it would provide a good opening for registered sales...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VZgBl-t7vY&feature=related
the jimmer is always selling dreams; and it makes you a more persausive salesman if you believe in dreams yourself...
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PostSubject: Re: Cole Creek cedar ridge 1v   Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:14 pm

Mark Day wrote:
Quote :
will this uncover double muscling, will this uncover possible fertility issue like the holstien and jersey breed found? Sire daughter mateing should find the gross disfiguration defects such as OS and dwarfism and others of there like
.


I worry about a whole lot of other things when I open the gates and turn a bull out.

like old batteries? I`ll show you a pic of a daughter in a couple days that will make you feel worse about that loss...
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