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 what now keeps me focus

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larkota



Posts : 310
Join date : 2010-09-23
Age : 57
Location : Kimball South Dakota

PostSubject: what now keeps me focus   Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:07 pm

I have these phrases plastered all over my barn office. would like to thank the people here on KC for making my life easier. dont remember the authors of all of them but many came from LL. when in doubt I read the walls.



the first step to improving cattle for the long haul is to get over the great bull syndrome.

true cow efficiency is measured by what she costs versus what she produced to sell.

just trying to enjoy life accepting what is ....is, and whatever can be.....will be, whether I'm here to help....or not.

Making the simple complicated is commonplace, Making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, That's creativity

the PRINCIPLES of the successful breeder have been EXCEEDINGLY SIMPLE. He ISOLATES and FIXES a GOOD type by careful selection and CLOSE breeding. If ambitious, he takes a greater step in advance, he CROSSES types with the characteristics which SEEM to offer POSSIBILITIES for a DESIREABLE COMBINATION and FIXES the new ideal by continued SELECTION and CLOSE breeding. He brings inferior stock up to a HIGHER LEVEL by THE CONSISTENT use of PREPOTENT sires of the SAME improved type. The DIFFICULTY lies not so much in knowing the principles as in APPLYING them.

we can't change cattle without changing them

a smart man learns from his own mistakes, a wise man learns from the mistakes of others

nature does not tolerate extremes

We all have to start somewhere and any difference is what we do with the composite after we get it. It would seem to be an advantage to start with something we are familiar with.

I think the hardest decision I or anyone else ever has to ultimately decide before we close a herd or begin a close breeding project is how much cow do we want

Without doubt, hybridization is the quick way to enjoy short term benefits but the long term side effects can be much more costly


it took me a long time to get over the historic traditional habit of liking the "best" calves/bulls/cows in a distribution and I still struggle with that ingrained urge to favor them to this day

simple logic suggests that if we ever decide to stabilize a type, then to increase the gene frequency for that type, we will first have to change our traditional selection habits..

SIMPLEST TRUTH that the breeding establishment has trouble accepting....that is an easy one...... it is accepting biological boundaries or limitations..... I believe we are trying to put too many duties into one animal

my definition of a strain is a lineage of presumed common ancestory, a group with clear cut physiological distinctions with the exceptional or unusual ability of the entire strain or group to transmit its specific functional characters to offspring

I have heretofore said that my biggest failure was my lack of understanding human nature, finally accepting that and other things which I cannot change.

The simple principals are that the successful breeder establishes an ideal type...he isolates and fixes a good type by careful selection and close breeding...he brings inferior stock up by consistent use of PREPOTENT sires of the SAME type. If he is AMBITIOUS (and we all are) he seeks a higher ideal by introducing those characters and fixes the new ideal the same way all over again.

If the love of money is the root of all evil, this must sure be an evil world

I had to become an old man before I could appreciate the value of a quality life

Earning respect by integrity has been my greatest pleasure, everything else follows in the wake even without trying.

One of the greatest things that ever happened was the crash, believe it or not.  My AAA membership was issued in 1966, the foundation of my new direction was born in that same year of my crash 12 years later in 1978, and so 31 years later this is where I am with my cattle trying to make them be all that they actually can be, and absolutely no more.

I will not be a prostitute selling my life for the temporary pleasures.

to help us all understand that we need to work with Mother Nature rather than fighting her.

It takes seven or eight generations to establish genetic truths for certain characteristics in an inbred parent line,

to improve consistency when one-half the genotype is always DIFFERENT than the other half, how will improved consistency ever be achieved over time

we are very good at improving what we ultimately call mistakes and I do not know if we are gaining or losing ground overall.

We are going to have to practice discipline, when someone wants more than they can have, we are going to have to say "no", you can't have it. They will say why and you will have to have a damn good reason or example to demonstrate how it will hurt them as well as helping them. They will say "but I want this or that" and you will have to present examples for them before they will even consider accepting "no, you can't have it". Now how will we do that if we do not even accept the word when Mother Nature says "No".

Seeing bigger cows have smaller calves and smaller cows having bigger calves. We have to remember that the industry has always been changing.  Big bulls made little cows bigger and just right for a while, then we use little bulls to bring down cow size, so I suppose I don't need to go into all this because it is there for all our eyes to see that we are an industry that continually reacts to every action.

I see it today that YW is highly correlated to mature cow weight. all the data I've analyzed, we have made cattle with more volume but I actually believe we have reduced cow efficiency, most of the change has been made for post weaning traits at the expense of the cow.

I have been around this efficiency kick since the late 60's, pinpointers, separate feeding pens back then at Wye, etc. Many may disagree with me but from my observations, it has all been detrimental to improving the functional efficiency of the cow. From the midgets to the giants to the milky to the carcass to the low birth weight curve benders, I would like someone to prove me wrong in that I have not seen anything but detriment to the functional efficiency of the cow.

Folks, if you do not understand by now why the Angus breed goes through continuous cycles of change, you will never understand why I do what I do.

We can make all records transparent and measure more things, but it is too late, the records are not faked, when we simply ignore the rules of Mother Nature

I speak of harnessing hybrid power to control problems and increase production efficiency

What is a prepotent sire...of what value is any type if it is not FIXED, for then it is not a type, but a type of many types.

form that followed my selection criteria for fertility. It is my first priority because without that I have nothing functional efficiency.

I have often been riddled by the lack of recognition that our breeds are often considered to be absent of "hybrid" vigor. A "hybrid" may also be defined as a blending of two animals of a different genera of traits, a "hybrid" being something heterogeneous in composition or origin.

Hmmm, then what are our individuals in our Angus breed, or the trait leaders which we seek from ABS or Genex for the most different EPD to change a trait, ranking and promoting trait leaders in the top percentile of the breed for change....and do we think emphasis on one trait will not change something else?

we continually want more of all of the measured positive traits which we are told to be of "most economic importance

my foundation sire is just a bull, what you cannot see is the "x" in him but look closer to his functional attributes, his agility and virility in the absence of fat in the "flanks and around the tail head", the nearly perfect scrotal, the intelligence in his head, good hip and leg set, a prince not a King. And about maturity and growth rates, I tend to associate these traits with maternal longevity.

Progress is Prepotency of Purposeful Parts.

It is smart to be honest, no one is in charge of your happiness except you.

primary objective remains the development of parent stock that can regularly produce beef animals which at the LOWEST POSSIBLE COST AND EXPENDITURE OF LABOR give the HIGHEST POSSIILE ans LONGEST LASTING NET RETURN to the commercial industry.
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Grassfarmer



Posts : 714
Join date : 2010-09-27
Location : Belmont, Manitoba, Canada

PostSubject: Re: what now keeps me focus   Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:18 pm

Very good - you must have a big barn office though Smile
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df



Posts : 549
Join date : 2010-09-28

PostSubject: Re: what now keeps me focus   Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:54 pm

How "heterozygous" are the trait leaders? How "homozygous" are the "average" Angus? How do you know?
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larkota



Posts : 310
Join date : 2010-09-23
Age : 57
Location : Kimball South Dakota

PostSubject: Re: what now keeps me focus   Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:55 pm

df wrote:
How "heterozygous" are the trait leaders? How "homozygous" are the "average" Angus? How do you know?

Making the simple complicated is commonplace, Making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, That's creativity

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df



Posts : 549
Join date : 2010-09-28

PostSubject: Re: what now keeps me focus   Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:04 pm

Assuming AA is the alleles at the loci of the trait leader and is worth +4.
Assuming aa is the alleles at the loci of the "poor performers" and is worth -4.
Assuming no dominance, Aa should be worth 0.
Assuming some dominance, and thus hybrid vigor, the Aa is worth something more than 0 but not necessarily more than +4 (depends on the extent of the dominance)
So the trait leader is homozygote (as is the poor performer). The average or maybe optimum animal is the heterozygote (in this case).

How do you plan to maintain optimum if it is a heterozygote?

Inbreeding will cause more AA and more aa, hence trait leaders and poor performers.
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MKeeney
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Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: what now keeps me focus   Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:25 pm

df wrote:
Assuming AA is the alleles at the loci of the trait leader and is worth +4.
Assuming aa is the alleles at the loci of the "poor performers" and is worth -4.
Assuming no dominance, Aa should be worth 0.
Assuming some dominance, and thus hybrid vigor, the Aa is worth something more than 0 but not necessarily more than +4 (depends on the extent of the dominance)
So the trait leader is homozygote (as is the poor performer). The average or maybe optimum animal is the heterozygote (in this case).

How do you plan to maintain optimum if it is a heterozygote?

Inbreeding will cause more AA and more aa, hence trait leaders and poor performers.
what if bb turns all the AA off?
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PostSubject: Re: what now keeps me focus   Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:35 pm

What if a frog had wings, would he still bump his ass when he hops?
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df



Posts : 549
Join date : 2010-09-28

PostSubject: Re: what now keeps me focus   Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:35 pm

MKeeney wrote:
df wrote:
Assuming AA is the alleles at the loci of the trait leader and is worth +4.
Assuming aa is the alleles at the loci of the "poor performers" and is worth -4.
Assuming no dominance, Aa should be worth 0.
Assuming some dominance, and thus hybrid vigor, the Aa is worth something more than 0 but not necessarily more than +4 (depends on the extent of the dominance)
So the trait leader is homozygote (as is the poor performer). The average or maybe optimum animal is the heterozygote (in this case).

How do you plan to maintain optimum if it is a heterozygote?

Inbreeding will cause more AA and more aa, hence trait leaders and poor performers.
what if bb turns all the AA off?

depends on what bb is worth.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: what now keeps me focus   Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:44 pm

df wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
df wrote:
Assuming AA is the alleles at the loci of the trait leader and is worth +4.
Assuming aa is the alleles at the loci of the "poor performers" and is worth -4.
Assuming no dominance, Aa should be worth 0.
Assuming some dominance, and thus hybrid vigor, the Aa is worth something more than 0 but not necessarily more than +4 (depends on the extent of the dominance)
So the trait leader is homozygote (as is the poor performer). The average or maybe optimum animal is the heterozygote (in this case).

How do you plan to maintain optimum if it is a heterozygote?

Inbreeding will cause more AA and more aa, hence trait leaders and poor performers.
what if bb turns all the AA off?

depends on what bb is worth.
I should have used dd...d as in dwarf...one pair kills it all...are there other pairs that have somewhat the same effect?
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Kent Powell



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PostSubject: Re: what now keeps me focus   Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:54 pm

What iffers have trouble keeping up with the just doers.

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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: what now keeps me focus   Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:01 pm

Keystone wrote:
What iffers have trouble keeping up with the just doers.

the proof is where? in the doing? Smile
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df



Posts : 549
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PostSubject: Re: what now keeps me focus   Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:27 am

When the discussion ends, just turn in the bull!! Very Happy
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: what now keeps me focus   Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:49 am

df wrote:
When the discussion ends, just turn in the bull!! Very Happy
back to what iffing,
df, I don`t think inbreeding will make trait leaders
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df



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PostSubject: Re: what now keeps me focus   Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:06 am

When making inbred parentstock, should the producer retain the high, medium or low performing animals?
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EddieM



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Location : South Carolina

PostSubject: Re: what now keeps me focus   Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:57 am

Quote :
When making inbred parentstock, should the producer retain the high, medium or low performing animals?

It depends on whether he has enough back pastures to hide the low performing animals from the view of the potential buyers! Razz

What is your purpose for your inbred line?

What does high, medium and low performance tell you?

Do you like the average of the group or can you stand the lower end of the group? (for your goal and purpose)

Do you test the lower end on the same inbred line to see if you are selecing the right animals or do you do outcrosses to see if the plan is on track?

I'm still trying to figure how to breed dead bulls; do you select the high, medium or low dead calves from the dead cows when you breed with dead bulls? I'll have to ask them down at the Advanced Bull Parts store on Monday. This sounds pretty hard. It might take MS to explain it to me in his kind and gentle way.
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Kent Powell



Posts : 500
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Location : SW Kansas

PostSubject: Re: what now keeps me focus   Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:21 am

df wrote:
When making inbred parentstock, should the producer retain the high, medium or low performing animals?

Yes.

You did not define your direction, goals... If the goal is merely to make them inbred, any will do just fine.

What is "performing" to you? If performing is eating and holding the light for those walking the fence, fighting and @#$%ing because their hormones (no, I am not measuring their damn hormones directly.) tell them that is the thing to do rather than eat like steers, then that could hurt you in other areas.

I work with a line that was selected for high gain and is inbred, but they are fighting, breeding SOB's. The breeder insisted on functional cows, so I guess he kept it in balance in that area.
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df



Posts : 549
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PostSubject: Re: what now keeps me focus   Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:31 am

Let's assume the parentstock will be sold to a commercial producer whose goal is to increase profit. Currently he is using sons of nationally known AI bulls. Cow size is ~1300 lbs, weaning weights are ~600 lbs at 200 days and he has a 15% replacement rate.
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Kent Powell



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PostSubject: Re: what now keeps me focus   Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:58 am

Then I suppose the commercial producer's beliefs on what makes a profit is important to know. Genetics are pretty low on the totem pole in importance.
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RobertMac



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Location : Mississippi, USA

PostSubject: Re: what now keeps me focus   Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:30 am

When I was working in the world of researchers, I had a colleague tell me that the PhDs loved to put numbers to their research because they could then tell you with definite certainty which was better and which was worse.
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PostSubject: Re: what now keeps me focus   Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:38 am

larkota wrote:
df wrote:
How "heterozygous" are the trait leaders? How "homozygous" are the "average" Angus? How do you know?

Making the simple complicated is commonplace, Making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, That's creativity

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PostSubject: Re: what now keeps me focus   Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:39 am

Making the simple complicated is commonplace, Making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, That's creativity


I thought it was worth reading at twice.



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PostSubject: Re: what now keeps me focus   Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:40 am

Bootheel wrote:
Making the simple complicated is commonplace, Making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, That's creativity


I thought it was worth reading at twice.




Making the simple complicated is commonplace, Making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, That's creativity


Maybe thrice will make it sink in
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df



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PostSubject: Re: what now keeps me focus   Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:58 am

df wrote:
When the discussion ends, just turn in the bull!! Very Happy

At the end of the day, its just elemetary!
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df



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PostSubject: Re: what now keeps me focus   Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:04 pm

Keystone wrote:
Then I suppose the commercial producer's beliefs on what makes a profit is important to know. Genetics are pretty low on the totem pole in importance.

Can we assume the producer's management is "optimum" for his present cowherd as determined by the reproduction information? That said, he wants to increase profit. He has a set amount of land and expanding land and cow numbers is not always an option.
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larkota



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PostSubject: Re: what now keeps me focus   Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:27 pm

at the end of the day these thoughts are what keeps me going.
thanks boot, maybe we do have something in common, simple thinking, plus 1 demerit.
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