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 Rank the seven P`s in selection importance

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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Rank the seven P`s in selection importance   Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:24 pm

df,
my comments would lean more toward the average or above milking Angus cows, and the marbling correlation thereof...
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PostSubject: Re: Rank the seven P`s in selection importance   Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:35 pm

What lines DF?
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df



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PostSubject: Re: Rank the seven P`s in selection importance   Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:51 pm

df wrote:
RobertMac wrote:
df wrote:
What is a "good" Angus cow and why would good ensure an ave Choice product?

Variation in marbling EPDs and the CAB acceptance in black hided cattle might lead some to think not all Angus will hit ave Choice. I realize some of the black hide comes from Continentals, but still leaves one to ponder a little.

When the salebarn pays more for black hides, they get more black hides. Because of this, black Angus is the dominant breed of the US cattle...so why hasn't % high choice and prime increased dramatically? With epds, it should be no problem, right?

To get a little more off subject...with our check-off dollars promoting "LEAN BEEF", what is the target?

My example is I think there is a fair amount of variation in the Angus breed so some lines have trouble hitting average Choice.

I think your comment deals with selection of high marbling Angus, which is the genetic trend of Angus. They may not hit average Choice due to how they are fed, although they may genetically be superior.

I should say some lines might have trouble. I find it difficult to believe all Angus will be average Choice, given the variation in marbling EPDs and current feeding margins.

Under ideal conditions, maybe they are all average Choice, but even then, there is variation.
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PostSubject: Re: Rank the seven P`s in selection importance   Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:48 pm

df wrote:
df wrote:
RobertMac wrote:
df wrote:
What is a "good" Angus cow and why would good ensure an ave Choice product?

Variation in marbling EPDs and the CAB acceptance in black hided cattle might lead some to think not all Angus will hit ave Choice. I realize some of the black hide comes from Continentals, but still leaves one to ponder a little.

When the salebarn pays more for black hides, they get more black hides. Because of this, black Angus is the dominant breed of the US cattle...so why hasn't % high choice and prime increased dramatically? With epds, it should be no problem, right?

To get a little more off subject...with our check-off dollars promoting "LEAN BEEF", what is the target?

My example is I think there is a fair amount of variation in the Angus breed so some lines have trouble hitting average Choice.

I think your comment deals with selection of high marbling Angus, which is the genetic trend of Angus. They may not hit average Choice due to how they are fed, although they may genetically be superior.

I should say some lines might have trouble. I find it difficult to believe all Angus will be average Choice, given the variation in marbling EPDs and current feeding margins.

Under ideal conditions, maybe they are all average Choice, but even then, there is variation.








No one said that all lines will? maybe you can explain which ones will?
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PostSubject: Re: Rank the seven P`s in selection importance   Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:28 pm

Sorry if I offended anyone. I don't know which lines are considered "good" but wonder about the comment that good Angus cows would produce an ave Choice progeny. With most comments of "good" I wonder what evidence is available that they will produce ave Choice progeny. Most of the comments of good seem to pertain to fertility, frame size, longevity, trouble-free, etc. I thought I would see more on carcass value.
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PostSubject: Re: Rank the seven P`s in selection importance   Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:36 pm

Who cares anymore, choice, where is the premium?. Pied's bulls bringing $104, fats bringing the same. Maybe a short term trend, maybe not. How many choice, premium marbling carcasses do we really need? Apparently not many, as there is no premium, meaning supply has already outstripped demand. Once again, more rabbits to chase than we can eat, or will.


Oh and I lost track of all the P's there Mike, pedigree would have also fell into program, that other meaningless P, would have been profile, DNA, whatever good may come of it, will mostly be lining the pockets with gold, fleeced from sheeple dogs, ever trying to protect their flocks from being Average.


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PostSubject: Re: Rank the seven P`s in selection importance   Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:55 pm

Bootheel wrote:
Who cares anymore, choice, where is the premium?. Pied's bulls bringing $104, fats bringing the same. Maybe a short term trend, maybe not. How many choice, premium marbling carcasses do we really need? Apparently not many, as there is no premium, meaning supply has already outstripped demand. Once again, more rabbits to chase than we can eat, or will.


Oh and I lost track of all the P's there Mike, pedigree would have also fell into program, that other meaningless P, would have been profile, DNA, whatever good may come of it, will mostly be lining the pockets with gold, fleeced from sheeple dogs, ever trying to protect their flocks from being Average.



Do you base your sire selection on the Ch-Se spread on the day of purchase?
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PostSubject: Re: Rank the seven P`s in selection importance   Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:58 pm

df wrote:
Bootheel wrote:
Who cares anymore, choice, where is the premium?. Pied's bulls bringing $104, fats bringing the same. Maybe a short term trend, maybe not. How many choice, premium marbling carcasses do we really need? Apparently not many, as there is no premium, meaning supply has already outstripped demand. Once again, more rabbits to chase than we can eat, or will.


Oh and I lost track of all the P's there Mike, pedigree would have also fell into program, that other meaningless P, would have been profile, DNA, whatever good may come of it, will mostly be lining the pockets with gold, fleeced from sheeple dogs, ever trying to protect their flocks from being Average.



Do you base your sire selection on the Ch-Se spread on the day of purchase?

NO
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PostSubject: Re: Rank the seven P`s in selection importance   Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:17 pm

Short answers are annoying, huh Tom. But the question remains, will long term demand for lean meat of average quality be the highest, or pump as much $8 corn into them as you can, hit prime, and hope that someone still has enough money left, to pass over the $.59 chicken to buy your $12/lb prime rib. Yeah some will, but I wouldn't count on it in the majority. Of course $8 corn puts a damper on chicken sales too, unless of course you lie, cheat, steal, embezzle, rape, pilage, enslave.......myself, I prefer a different business model, but may use some pointers from them for the New Kingdom.




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PostSubject: Re: Rank the seven P`s in selection importance   Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:12 pm

There are more millionairs in China than people in US.....why won't there be demand for and money to buy Choice and Prime beef?
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PostSubject: Re: Rank the seven P`s in selection importance   Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:14 pm

The people willing to pay $12/lb for prime rib don't want to buy it from Tyson...they are more willing to buy it from an independent label...even more willing to buy direct. Feeding the world is one thing, demand for high price food is something else.

DF, if epds are such a good tool, shouldn't the percentage of high choice and prime carcasses be increasing? If I remember correctly, the last beef quality audit had the percent HC&P down or about the same...you may have better numbers.
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PostSubject: Re: Rank the seven P`s in selection importance   Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:19 pm

RobertMac wrote:
The people willing to pay $12/lb for prime rib don't want to buy it from Tyson...they are more willing to buy it from an independent label...even more willing to buy direct. Feeding the world is one thing, demand for high price food is something else.

DF, if epds are such a good tool, shouldn't the percentage of high choice and prime carcasses be increasing? If I remember correctly, the last beef quality audit had the percent HC&P down or about the same...you may have better numbers.

I don't think you can blame the epd's there Robert. More of an issue of what the market is telling the feeders. If the premium is there for longer time on feed, more cover, less discounts for 4's, the quality grade will come. Mindlessly feeding for marbling, without being rewarded monetarily, is not a good business decision.
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PostSubject: Re: Rank the seven P`s in selection importance   Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:29 pm

Bootheel wrote:
RobertMac wrote:
The people willing to pay $12/lb for prime rib don't want to buy it from Tyson...they are more willing to buy it from an independent label...even more willing to buy direct. Feeding the world is one thing, demand for high price food is something else.

DF, if epds are such a good tool, shouldn't the percentage of high choice and prime carcasses be increasing? If I remember correctly, the last beef quality audit had the percent HC&P down or about the same...you may have better numbers.

I don't think you can blame the epd's there Robert. More of an issue of what the market is telling the feeders. If the premium is there for longer time on feed, more cover, less discounts for 4's, the quality grade will come. Mindlessly feeding for marbling, without being rewarded monetarily, is not a good business decision.

I agree with Bootheel.
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PostSubject: Re: Rank the seven P`s in selection importance   Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:32 pm

df wrote:
There are more millionairs in China than people in US.....why won't there be demand for and money to buy Choice and Prime beef?

HUH???? How do you figure? scratch
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PostSubject: Re: Rank the seven P`s in selection importance   Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:33 pm

df wrote:
There are more millionairs in China than people in US.....why won't there be demand for and money to buy Choice and Prime beef?


Good luck with making a bunch of money off the Chinamen, DF, surebet, cant lose, easy money deal. Of course they already own your kingdom, mine is sovereign, and full of radicals, unrelenting in their pursuit to be out from under the thumb of tyranny.
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PostSubject: Re: Rank the seven P`s in selection importance   Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:02 pm

Bootheel wrote:
df wrote:
There are more millionairs in China than people in US.....why won't there be demand for and money to buy Choice and Prime beef?


Good luck with making a bunch of money off the Chinamen, DF, surebet, cant lose, easy money deal. Of course they already own your kingdom, mine is sovereign, and full of radicals, unrelenting in their pursuit to be out from under the thumb of tyranny.

You are sure uplifting tonight!
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PostSubject: Re: Rank the seven P`s in selection importance   Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:23 pm

DF,

I was just excited to learn that perhaps there are some lines of cattle out there I don't know about. I am more interested in proof of a line than proof of what they do. That can be figured out much faster than making a line. And I am the only one I have to convince.

df wrote:
Sorry if I offended anyone. I don't know which lines are considered "good" but wonder about the comment that good Angus cows would produce an ave Choice progeny. With most comments of "good" I wonder what evidence is available that they will produce ave Choice progeny. Most of the comments of good seem to pertain to fertility, frame size, longevity, trouble-free, etc. I thought I would see more on carcass value.
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PostSubject: Re: Rank the seven P`s in selection importance   Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:35 pm

df wrote:
Bootheel wrote:
df wrote:
There are more millionairs in China than people in US.....why won't there be demand for and money to buy Choice and Prime beef?


Good luck with making a bunch of money off the Chinamen, DF, surebet, cant lose, easy money deal. Of course they already own your kingdom, mine is sovereign, and full of radicals, unrelenting in their pursuit to be out from under the thumb of tyranny.

You are sure uplifting tonight!


What is non-uplifting about being freed from the shackles of tyranny? Unless of course you are part of the tyranny that is being ousted. Or is it the fact that I do not buy the get rich quick scheme of selling premium beef to a country where most of the workers make pennies per hour?

Reality bites, DF

But, Life is Good

Bootheel
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Rank the seven P`s in selection importance   Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:45 pm

I would prefer to say the "average" or "good" Angus cow will not detract from the marbling as much as other breeds...no, I wouldn`t want to project ave choice; depends on many other things ...
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PostSubject: Re: Rank the seven P`s in selection importance   Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:05 pm

RobertMac wrote:
The people willing to pay $12/lb for prime rib don't want to buy it from Tyson...they are more willing to buy it from an independent label...even more willing to buy direct. Feeding the world is one thing, demand for high price food is something else.

I agree R-Mac, why should I worry about producing grain-fed choice commodity beef for DF's 300 million chinese millionaires when I can't keep up with demand selling select NON-COMMODITY beef to the locals for 2 bucks a pound hanging weight?
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PostSubject: Re: Rank the seven P`s in selection importance   Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:22 pm

If we can sell lots of beef to China great. However there are so many things that can ruin that market very quickly that it isn't a business model I'd bet the ranch on.

What we really need is MONSTER RIBEYES the new industry buzzword according to the composite/hybrid/ mongrel bull breeder over on Advantage [hi Brian].
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PostSubject: Re: Rank the seven P`s in selection importance   Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:37 pm

I get a kick outa ole Will at Advantage...62, are you suggesting Brian W reads this site? I don`t blame him; given his choices... Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Rank the seven P`s in selection importance   Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:47 pm

All kinds of lurkerdom inspired conversation out there. Just got through reading the stupidity of Longhorns in heifer development program. Why they never, ever, seldom, hardly pull a calf, and only then to make her breed better, probably would have had them on their own....blah, blah Very Happy sounds so familar.
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PostSubject: Re: Rank the seven P`s in selection importance   Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:49 pm

Bootheel wrote:
Who cares anymore, choice, where is the premium?. Pied's bulls bringing $104, fats bringing the same. Maybe a short term trend, maybe not. How many choice, premium marbling carcasses do we really need? Apparently not many, as there is no premium, meaning supply has already outstripped demand. Once again, more rabbits to chase than we can eat, or will.


Oh and I lost track of all the P's there Mike, pedigree would have also fell into program, that other meaningless P, would have been profile, DNA, whatever good may come of it, will mostly be lining the pockets with gold, fleeced from sheeple dogs, ever trying to protect their flocks from being Average.



P is also for patience...what are "we" going to do with the daughter of Sniffy out of Sniffy`s mother??? bring your trailer next spring...P is also for Project Smile P is for the picture coming soon...
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PostSubject: Re: Rank the seven P`s in selection importance   Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:57 pm

MKeeney wrote:
Bootheel wrote:
Who cares anymore, choice, where is the premium?. Pied's bulls bringing $104, fats bringing the same. Maybe a short term trend, maybe not. How many choice, premium marbling carcasses do we really need? Apparently not many, as there is no premium, meaning supply has already outstripped demand. Once again, more rabbits to chase than we can eat, or will.


Oh and I lost track of all the P's there Mike, pedigree would have also fell into program, that other meaningless P, would have been profile, DNA, whatever good may come of it, will mostly be lining the pockets with gold, fleeced from sheeple dogs, ever trying to protect their flocks from being Average.



P is also for patience...what are "we" going to do with the daughter of Sniffy out of Sniffy`s mother??? bring your trailer next spring...P is also for Project Smile P is for the picture coming soon...

I guess the hope of them being red, would be out of the question? Lets turn them white, and in 75 years call 'em Anglais, it will be all the rage. I have appointed myself President of the New Association, one of the perks of being King. It is a poor kingdom though, nothing glamorous, just a double wide with some dogs under the porch. The Queen makes it all worthwhile though!!!


But seriously, I am just along for the ride, whatever tickles your fancy, I'm game.




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