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 Real Numbers for the frame size debate

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PostSubject: Real Numbers for the frame size debate   Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:32 pm

I thought I might clarify some of the carcass arguments and acceptability with what USPB actually rewards and discounts expressed in dollars\cwt.

This was from January 2010.
Quality Grade Prime no threshold $12.35
Choice or higher %50 6.59
Select no discount or premium if threshold on choice met
Ungraded -10.00
Hardbone -15.00
CAB 3.44
BCPR 1.94
Over 30 months -10
Yield grade threshold
1 15% 3.00
2 43.5 1.50
3 35.5 0
4 5.6 -10
5 0.32 -15
Weight Adjustments
575 and down -10
1000 and up -15
Age verified 35
Steer premium 3

It is a lot to take in, but here is a little scenario with small frames
Carcass weight 550 dockage -55
Yield grade 4 -55
Loss of age and source -35
Dockage alone coming out to $110 plus inability to age and source $145

At my cost to rent pasture, the dockage alone cost more than the cost to feed ANY cow for the year.
Something to think about anyhow, and do take note the minimum weight is actually 575#

The hot yield on this load was 64.86% Live weight of 1131 Ave. Hot Wt. 734
This is as shrunk as they get with a 600 mile haul, so take the weights with a grain of salt. These would have weighed in the mid 1200’s at home.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Real Numbers for the frame size debate   Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:56 am

good stuff Joe...
I just loaded 4 cows with calves back on the trailer after resting the night here for a young man...sold as "the best pure genepool of grass fed genetics" in the country...
They were kinda thin; certainly not thick; total opposites in type to the Pharo promoted type; although I`ve seen P haro sell the same genetics...
Is there anything that defines "grassfed genetics" other than feeding grass only{though to some soyhulls are "forage"}, and the owner denoting them as such? Is there a preferred type?
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PostSubject: Re: Real Numbers for the frame size debate   Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:02 am

Is there a prefered type?, according to the marketers, yea, according to me, heck, I have seen 7 plus frame cows make it 15 years, 3 frames make it 15 years, one thing in common, they sure as shootin' did not stay fat and slick year around
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PatB



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Age : 53
Location : Turner, Maine

PostSubject: Re: Real Numbers for the frame size debate   Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:26 am

MKeeney wrote:
good stuff Joe...
I just loaded 4 cows with calves back on the trailer after resting the night here for a young man...sold as "the best pure genepool of grass fed genetics" in the country...
They were kinda thin; certainly not thick; total opposites in type to the Pharo promoted type; although I`ve seen P haro sell the same genetics...
Is there anything that defines "grassfed genetics" other than feeding grass only{though to some soyhulls are "forage"}, and the owner denoting them as such? Is there a preferred type?

I do not know if their is a prefered type but frame 4 to 6 and 1200 to 1500 pound cows work best here.
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RobertMac



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Location : Mississippi, USA

PostSubject: Re: Real Numbers for the frame size debate   Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:33 am

Quote :
On average, modern cattle are 20 percent heavier than the old-style. However, the energy requirements have increased 27 to 43 percent and the crude protein requirements have increased 41 to 72 percent. The forages provided by traditional-type forage management practices are deficient at meeting the crude protein requirements of modern cattle for 41 to 82 percent of the days of the year.

http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/news/newsreleases/2010/sept-20-2010/biologically-effective-management-of-grazing-land-increases-productivity-and-profits
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Grassfarmer



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Location : Belmont, Manitoba, Canada

PostSubject: Re: Real Numbers for the frame size debate   Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:50 am

MKeeney wrote:
good stuff Joe...
I just loaded 4 cows with calves back on the trailer after resting the night here for a young man...sold as "the best pure genepool of grass fed genetics" in the country...
They were kinda thin; certainly not thick; total opposites in type to the Pharo promoted type; although I`ve seen P haro sell the same genetics...
Is there anything that defines "grassfed genetics" other than feeding grass only{though to some soyhulls are "forage"}, and the owner denoting them as such? Is there a preferred type?

I would categorize "grass-fed genetics" in my environment as those that can fatten off grass at an acceptable fat cover before their second winter. Most of our cattle can do it - 600lb carcass off October grass at just under 18 months. A grass-fed cow by extension is anything that can rear a calf that will perform as above. We find the cow doesn't have to be a fat little thing to do this - some of our older, larger Simmental x red angus cows produce excellent calves for this program when bred Luing. Their bonus is the extra weight and growth they bring. I have never found it to be rocket science grass-fattening cattle - the grass is the most important thing not the genetics.
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Mean Spirit



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Join date : 2010-09-26

PostSubject: Re: Real Numbers for the frame size debate   Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:35 am

It's not just mature size, at least when we're talking about cows-- I'm not advocating that she's anything like ideal for a grass fed cow, but I am personally aware of a nearly 9 frame 1800 lb cow that thrives on grass and hay in NC, raising a big calf. I'm also aware of a frame 6 cow who you could watch almost see melting away, rearing a bad calf, in the same environment. Nobody got creep feed, same pastures, calves born within a month of each other, both females had what many would consider too much hair, both always had access to ad lib hay== they could eat all they wanted and then walk away. Nobody sick. I've no reasonable explanation, other than that the bigger cow has a significantly better appetite. The big cow is older.
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PatB



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Age : 53
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PostSubject: Re: Real Numbers for the frame size debate   Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:04 pm

It has been my experience in our herd that some family lines do better on grass, hay and mineral than others. We started out with 20 different lines/cows of registered angus cattle and we are now down to all registered cows tracing back to 6 of the original cows. The bulls used also contributes to how daughters perform under my management style. Three bulls that have left some very function cattle are BCC bushwacker 41-93, schurrtop supreme, sav 8180 travel 004.
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