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 I want out...

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Kent Powell



Posts : 606
Join date : 2010-09-24
Location : SW Kansas

PostSubject: I want out...   Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:47 am

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http://powellangus.com
chocolate cow



Posts : 103
Join date : 2010-09-24
Location : Kansas

PostSubject: Re: I want out...   Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:54 am

My reason for wanting out.... For those who don't know, I had a bull (Angus) cause me a lot of grief this calving season. He was put with 22 cows for the breeding season,2010. Of those 22, 7 were open, 8 produced dead or dying calves. The remaining 7 calved at the end of the 60 day calving season. Two of those calves look like holstein crosses. Lots of white. I played the game and sent one of the calves to Dr. Steffen. Interestingly, these calves displayed bull-dog dwarf features along with a snorting sound when breathing. None could stand. Note the comment about not changing the breeding program, you betcha.

From Dr. Steffen:
GROSS FINDINGS: This 66-pound black-white-faced bull calf was received. The calf had a swollen head. The rear legs were slightly contracted and difficult to extend at the hips. The front legs appeared slightly contracted and stiff. Mild supination of the left front limb was noted. Marked cellulitis was seen in the cervical region and caudal pharyngeal area. The heart was markedly enlarged with a high ventricular septal defect present. The aorta was also overriding and exited from the right side. Lungs were markedly congested.

HISTOPATHOLOGY: A few sections of bone were taken for histologic evaluation and appeared normal.

FINAL DIAGNOSIS: Multiple cardiac anomalies with high ventricular septal defect, overriding aorta, and cardiomegaly

COMMENTS: There was some cellulitis evident in the neck. The cause of the complex cardiac defect is unknown. These are not thought to be simply inherited traits and thus would not be grounds for change in the breeding program. They most often occur as isolated occurrences some may be caused by chromosomal nondisjunction.
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OAK LANE FARM



Posts : 95
Join date : 2010-09-25

PostSubject: Re: I want out...   Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:13 am

Then why were the calves out of the other bulls alright. Well at least he didn't tell you it was Schearbrook Shoshone's fault. And those idiots on the other network are putting their faith in the AAA and the Dr. to save them. SAVE YOURSELF
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chocolate cow



Posts : 103
Join date : 2010-09-24
Location : Kansas

PostSubject: Re: I want out...   Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:20 am

I'm headed in the right direction now Smile Although it doesn't help the calves I buy. Sooner or later, feed yards will have to get tired of this mess won't they?
Their expense gets passed on, somewhat.


Last edited by chocolate cow on Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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PatB



Posts : 455
Join date : 2010-09-25
Age : 53
Location : Turner, Maine

PostSubject: Re: I want out...   Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:00 am

chocolate cow wrote:
My reason for wanting out.... For those who don't know, I had a bull (Angus) cause me a lot of grief this calving season. He was put with 22 cows for the breeding season,2010. Of those 22, 7 were open, 8 produced dead or dying calves. The remaining 7 calved at the end of the 60 day calving season. Two of those calves look like holstein crosses. Lots of white. I played the game and sent one of the calves to Dr. Steffen. Interestingly, these calves displayed bull-dog dwarf features along with a snorting sound when breathing. None could stand. Note the comment about not changing the breeding program, you betcha.

From Dr. Steffen:
GROSS FINDINGS: This 66-pound black-white-faced bull calf was received. The calf had a swollen head. The rear legs were slightly contracted and difficult to extend at the hips. The front legs appeared slightly contracted and stiff. Mild supination of the left front limb was noted. Marked cellulitis was seen in the cervical region and caudal pharyngeal area. The heart was markedly enlarged with a high ventricular septal defect present. The aorta was also overriding and exited from the right side. Lungs were markedly congested.

HISTOPATHOLOGY: A few sections of bone were taken for histologic evaluation and appeared normal.

FINAL DIAGNOSIS: Multiple cardiac anomalies with high ventricular septal defect, overriding aorta, and cardiomegaly

COMMENTS: There was some cellulitis evident in the neck. The cause of the complex cardiac defect is unknown. These are not thought to be simply inherited traits and thus would not be grounds for change in the breeding program. They most often occur as isolated occurrences some may be caused by chromosomal nondisjunction.

Please send the samples to DR Beever to work with as he is our best hope in solving this challenge.
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Mean Spirit



Posts : 321
Join date : 2010-09-26

PostSubject: Re: I want out...   Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:03 am

Are the cows also angus? If so, don't we have a parentage issue that needs to be addressed to explain the white face babies?
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OAK LANE FARM



Posts : 95
Join date : 2010-09-25

PostSubject: Re: I want out...   Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:16 am

Our best hope implies that we all are some kind of team ( commercial cattleman-seedstock producer- breed registry). As I see it she already wasted her time and money doing the right thing. Buy seedstock from those whose breeding practices should expose problems and who are honest enough to deal with it.
patb wrote:
chocolate cow wrote:
My reason for wanting out.... For those who don't know, I had a bull (Angus) cause me a lot of grief this calving season. He was put with 22 cows for the breeding season,2010. Of those 22, 7 were open, 8 produced dead or dying calves. The remaining 7 calved at the end of the 60 day calving season. Two of those calves look like holstein crosses. Lots of white. I played the game and sent one of the calves to Dr. Steffen. Interestingly, these calves displayed bull-dog dwarf features along with a snorting sound when breathing. None could stand. Note the comment about not changing the breeding program, you betcha.

From Dr. Steffen:
GROSS FINDINGS: This 66-pound black-white-faced bull calf was received. The calf had a swollen head. The rear legs were slightly contracted and difficult to extend at the hips. The front legs appeared slightly contracted and stiff. Mild supination of the left front limb was noted. Marked cellulitis was seen in the cervical region and caudal pharyngeal area. The heart was markedly enlarged with a high ventricular septal defect present. The aorta was also overriding and exited from the right side. Lungs were markedly congested.

HISTOPATHOLOGY: A few sections of bone were taken for histologic evaluation and appeared normal.

FINAL DIAGNOSIS: Multiple cardiac anomalies with high ventricular septal defect, overriding aorta, and cardiomegaly

COMMENTS: There was some cellulitis evident in the neck. The cause of the complex cardiac defect is unknown. These are not thought to be simply inherited traits and thus would not be grounds for change in the breeding program. They most often occur as isolated occurrences some may be caused by chromosomal nondisjunction.

Please send the samples to DR Beever to work with as he is our best hope in solving this challenge.
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PatB



Posts : 455
Join date : 2010-09-25
Age : 53
Location : Turner, Maine

PostSubject: Re: I want out...   Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:34 am

OAK LANE FARM wrote:
Our best hope implies that we all are some kind of team ( commercial cattleman-seedstock producer- breed registry). As I see it she already wasted her time and money doing the right thing. Buy seedstock from those whose breeding practices should expose problems and who are honest enough to deal with it.
patb wrote:
chocolate cow wrote:
My reason for wanting out.... For those who don't know, I had a bull (Angus) cause me a lot of grief this calving season. He was put with 22 cows for the breeding season,2010. Of those 22, 7 were open, 8 produced dead or dying calves. The remaining 7 calved at the end of the 60 day calving season. Two of those calves look like holstein crosses. Lots of white. I played the game and sent one of the calves to Dr. Steffen. Interestingly, these calves displayed bull-dog dwarf features along with a snorting sound when breathing. None could stand. Note the comment about not changing the breeding program, you betcha.

From Dr. Steffen:
GROSS FINDINGS: This 66-pound black-white-faced bull calf was received. The calf had a swollen head. The rear legs were slightly contracted and difficult to extend at the hips. The front legs appeared slightly contracted and stiff. Mild supination of the left front limb was noted. Marked cellulitis was seen in the cervical region and caudal pharyngeal area. The heart was markedly enlarged with a high ventricular septal defect present. The aorta was also overriding and exited from the right side. Lungs were markedly congested.

HISTOPATHOLOGY: A few sections of bone were taken for histologic evaluation and appeared normal.

FINAL DIAGNOSIS: Multiple cardiac anomalies with high ventricular septal defect, overriding aorta, and cardiomegaly

COMMENTS: There was some cellulitis evident in the neck. The cause of the complex cardiac defect is unknown. These are not thought to be simply inherited traits and thus would not be grounds for change in the breeding program. They most often occur as isolated occurrences some may be caused by chromosomal nondisjunction.

Please send the samples to DR Beever to work with as he is our best hope in solving this challenge.

It was a registered angus bull bred to commercial females of mixed parentage.
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R V



Posts : 74
Join date : 2010-10-04

PostSubject: Re: I want out...   Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:07 am

chocolate cow wrote:
My reason for wanting out.... For those who don't know, I had a bull (Angus) cause me a lot of grief this calving season. He was put with 22 cows for the breeding season,2010. Of those 22, 7 were open, 8 produced dead or dying calves. The remaining 7 calved at the end of the 60 day calving season. Two of those calves look like holstein crosses. Lots of white. I played the game and sent one of the calves to Dr. Steffen. Interestingly, these calves displayed bull-dog dwarf features along with a snorting sound when breathing. None could stand. Note the comment about not changing the breeding program, you betcha.

From Dr. Steffen:
GROSS FINDINGS: This 66-pound black-white-faced bull calf was received. The calf had a swollen head. The rear legs were slightly contracted and difficult to extend at the hips. The front legs appeared slightly contracted and stiff. Mild supination of the left front limb was noted. Marked cellulitis was seen in the cervical region and caudal pharyngeal area. The heart was markedly enlarged with a high ventricular septal defect present. The aorta was also overriding and exited from the right side. Lungs were markedly congested.

HISTOPATHOLOGY: A few sections of bone were taken for histologic evaluation and appeared normal.

FINAL DIAGNOSIS: Multiple cardiac anomalies with high ventricular septal defect, overriding aorta, and cardiomegaly

COMMENTS: There was some cellulitis evident in the neck. The cause of the complex cardiac defect is unknown. These are not thought to be simply inherited traits and thus would not be grounds for change in the breeding program. They most often occur as isolated occurrences some may be caused by chromosomal nondisjunction.


I would contact Dr. Beever as well. The DNA on this bull may be helpful to them as I don't remember any cardiac malformations being noted with the current defects being described. The snorter dwarfs were well before my time and I don't know if they had cardiac malformations. Does the bull have any known carriers in his pedigree?
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robert



Posts : 52
Join date : 2010-11-17
Age : 49
Location : oblivion, ny

PostSubject: Re: I want out...   Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:22 am

Keystone wrote:
Breed registries and the Post Office:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hox-ni8geIw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nKlzQo3Wqo&feature=related

good stuff Kent.
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chocolate cow



Posts : 103
Join date : 2010-09-24
Location : Kansas

PostSubject: Re: I want out...   Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:40 am

To clarify this somewhat, this group of cows had both black/white faces and straight-bred Angus. The problem did not contain itself to one group or the other. I had affected calves in both the BWF and straight Angus. At first it appeared to be only the bull calves born but that changed as heifer calves displayed the same problems. It was equally distributed from the start of calving to the end, which eliminated the "environmental" scenario. The BWF's came from my herd, the straight Angus were purchased. This same group had all calved successfully as two year olds. I left them together and bred them to this bull thinking it was a way to identify calves which SHOULD have been superior BECAUSE the bull cost a lot of money and his NUMBERS were good and his PAPER said he was good..... Embarassed
This bull was a grandson of Fame, Focus, Famous 7001 & EXT. Females include Larks Miss Bando 74A, Ruths 6807 of Conanga 674, SAF Royal Queen 5084 & TK Miss Katee 146.

Sh*t happens. This happened to me. I've cleaned it up and moved on. Lesson learned. The AAA goes on, the big time guys keep multiplying, people run to them for more, and it goes on and on.......without me cheers
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larkota



Posts : 371
Join date : 2010-09-23
Age : 57
Location : Kimball South Dakota

PostSubject: Re: I want out...   Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:36 am

CC I feel for you. you now may understand my Disgust {an emotion that is typically associated with things that are regarded as unclean, infectious, gory or otherwise offensive} of 2 Jim's I know. more for less and less for more if that dont work man do we have a bull that will fix it.

What bothers me is these guys are getting the next generation to believe their crap.

And they tell me to growup!!!!!!

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chocolate cow



Posts : 103
Join date : 2010-09-24
Location : Kansas

PostSubject: Re: I want out...   Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:55 am

Yeah, Briann.....too bad I couldn't get a bull bought at your sale.
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larkota



Posts : 371
Join date : 2010-09-23
Age : 57
Location : Kimball South Dakota

PostSubject: Re: I want out...   Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:39 am

CC that might be to your favor. I dont know for sure how they will breed. I need time. To think I am the answer to anyone's problem just aint right. Give me a least 5 more years.

Treated a calf born in a storm ten days old for scours. Should have just threw him on the bonepile. But out of a good cow, took him to the vet. After a 24 hour treatment. Vet said my he looks good, he could not stand with out help. Funny thing was. When I brought him back to his dam all the cows gathered aroung him like a funneral. I know where he will end up. Just have to learn that no help is good enough.

need to trust that line in the sand.
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