Keeney`s Corner

A current and reflective discussion of cattle breeding from outside the registered mainstream
 
HomeUsergroupsRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 Relative Range Reduction

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
Dylan Biggs



Posts : 392
Join date : 2011-03-07

PostSubject: Relative Range Reduction   Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:35 pm

A neophyte question.
How much can one expect to reduce range (compress the bell curve) of birth wieght, for example, as homozygosity is increased, relative to the standard heterozygous range?
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Relative Range Reduction   Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:16 pm

I would imagine, if your focus was singular, not that long or difficult to narrow the ranges. But if selection for antagonistic traits, such as growth, either expressed as muscle or frame, or both....it brings to mind hunting hopped up swamp rabbits.
Back to top Go down
Dylan Biggs



Posts : 392
Join date : 2011-03-07

PostSubject: Re: Relative Range Reduction   Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:32 pm

Thanks Bootheel, that swamp bunny hunting sounds fun!Smile
Birth weight, was just an example, just wondering in general, for those who have experienced the decreased variability of homozygosity, if they could quantify that reduction. Demonstrable examples in consistentcy that would at least anecdotally give me some idea of practical expectations.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Relative Range Reduction   Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:34 pm

Alright Biggs, what are you wanting to create, here, with this animal described in your question? calving ease specialist? do it all best? Where are you headed here, kind sir?
Back to top Go down
Dylan Biggs



Posts : 392
Join date : 2011-03-07

PostSubject: Re: Relative Range Reduction   Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:04 pm

Bootheel, I appreciate your direct question!

Being a relative beginner with inbreeding of my purebred cattle, as hard as it may be to believe, I am sincerely wanting to know what long time inbreeders breeders have experienced as regards relative improvements in reliability in any and all traits they may have been focusing on? Have they seen, for the sake of example, predictability in udder quality go from a 50/50 chance of being passed on to 100% chance?

Back to top Go down
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4600
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: Relative Range Reduction   Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:41 pm

whew...need a break anyway...
Dylan, in terms of traits like Birth Weight, I think slow improvement... yearling weight, even slower...but udders, teats, type, controlled by fewer genes I`m guessing, much faster IMUO {in my unverifiable opinion} Smile
Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
Dylan Biggs



Posts : 392
Join date : 2011-03-07

PostSubject: Re: Relative Range Reduction   Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:43 pm

Mike thanks, that is what I am wondering.

In addition to rate of improvement, any thoughts on what kind of bell curve compression one might expect over the long term with birth weight and weaning weights relative to the typical melting pot Angus herd?

Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Relative Range Reduction   Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:04 pm

Lots of factors, selection being the big one, followed by how big, or how much variance you have in the pool to start with. On the note of selection.....both parent of lines of these pups of mine are heavily white factored, but I inevitably get some nearly solid black ones. Also, hair coat is short, but get some med to med long coats. The nearly solid white female, short haired, bred back to sire, still produced two longer haired, and one predominately black pup. I like to use the dogs as examples because six pups, born at once show the variation, without environmental innfluence of say flush calves. On a side note I am not selecting for color, much like cows, it is just what I have. I am selecting for attitude and ability, and do give preference for short hair, and I guess that long hair is recessive.....not sure about color, but I think the white is more recessive.

I do not know if udders are easier to fix, than birthweight, once again, I would assume it would be dependent upon the variation in the ancestory. If you had 50 calves averaging 75 pounds, and one weighed 90 and one weighed 75, but at weaning both weighed 20% more than the mean, I would not expect the lighter calf to bring me much less birthweight than the heavier. Point being, their EPD's would start off different, but the selection for added growth, especially if they expressed the same general type, I do not think you would lower birth weights, or make them more consistent, by using either. I prefer to think of most traits, as either acceptable or not, now if we really need to "change" a trait, or move it drastically, this method will probably fail miserably. Young as I am, I know it will take a very long time to change much of anything in my cattle, and would be much faster and easier to just buy what you want to start with, if unhappy, than spend two lifetimes turning them into something different.

Good discussion points, Dylan, Biggs, Mr. Biggs, however I just properly address a cold cold cold furiner.
Back to top Go down
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4600
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: Relative Range Reduction   Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:16 pm

oh my goodness...I feel a resurrection attempt of Larry`s measurement of variability in Shoshone, Wye, and Jorgenson herds in an old catalog...it will tax every computer skill in my limited experience Smile
BTW, the unauthorized version of "Shoshone, The Formative Years" is hot off the press...the first page has a picture of Tom Burke...the last sentence in the book states " We do what we can, using Nature to our advantage, while we can..."
To avoid possible royality lawsuits before copies are loaned, I hope to employ OT as my lawyer...let`s see though...you sometimes use "hostile witnesses", you don`t employ hostile lawyers Smile
Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Relative Range Reduction   Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:28 pm

Dylan, there is some spherical distributions, in the Reflections posts, by LL, they should clear up some things for you, I would think, maybe what Mike has referred to. You seem to be a more qualified candidate than I, it wigs me out, get to doing strange stuff, writing out of my head......good luck to you.

Mike, I reserve the RIGHT to an autographed copy, just because today, I am direct.


Thanks
Back to top Go down
MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 4600
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: Relative Range Reduction   Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:59 pm

Bootheel wrote:
Dylan, there is some spherical distributions, in the Reflections posts, by LL, they should clear up some things for you, I would think, maybe what Mike has referred to. You seem to be a more qualified candidate than I, it wigs me out, get to doing strange stuff, writing out of my head......good luck to you.

Mike, I reserve the RIGHT to an autographed copy, just because today, I am direct.


Thanks

and just because I`m in my usual good mood today, the unsigned copy shall be presented to you next weekend...the proper signing though, by the responsible creator, can only be had, on the Red Lodge porch , during the next scheduled Tru-Line meeting, July, 2020...I expect to see you there...
Back to top Go down
http://www.keeneyscorner.com
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Relative Range Reduction   Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:21 pm

Will we have to say the secret pledge, do the dance, swear loyalty to the Inner Santum, sign our name in blood on the official cult handbook, to be certified outliers from the non futuristic and unreflective mainstream, I sure hope so, I always wanted to be on the fringe. Maybe ABC will come do an expos'e for their little program on freaks and geeks. Man alive, I am excited, maybe we can have a bare knuckle brawl and mud rastlin' for the wimmins while we're at it. WHEEEHWE, better call in the Guard, things might get wild.

Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Relative Range Reduction   Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:18 pm

Allrighty Mike, you have some folks out there ready for some serious material on linebreeding, inbreeding, and selection therof. I think it is time to sharpen up those computin' skills and put some of LL's literature out to the masses. Maybe even set up a new category, just for the serious stuff, where us jokers cant distract. Poor ol' Biggs is running hisself ragged sorting the keepers from the culls here.......not that you dont have enough to do, but I have noticed you have taken some time for extracuricalar or elective courses lately.

Respectfully, not Directly, or bossy, or whiney


Bootheel
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Relative Range Reduction   

Back to top Go down
 
Relative Range Reduction
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Planet Classification - Temperature Range
» Help Wanted Finding Relative
» A close relative...
» Current Workload Relative to Capacity
» A dream about a relative about to die

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Keeney`s Corner :: Breeding Philosophies :: Breeding Philosophies-
Jump to: