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 Selling "Blue Sky" is so yesterday

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Grassfarmer



Posts : 912
Join date : 2010-09-27
Location : Belmont, Manitoba, Canada

PostSubject: Selling "Blue Sky" is so yesterday   Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:26 pm

Got a Simmental catalog today which seeks to go even higher. One bull is described as being a "mating from heaven" and that he "glides across the ground and is attractive regardless of the angle you look at him." All this from a program touting "this years calf crop is the most diverse genetically"
MK, I think it's time for you to up the ante - maybe time for some extra-terrestrial cattle? Or is that what your ET program is? Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Selling "Blue Sky" is so yesterday   Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:49 pm

The dumbest ones I've seen are "he's so thick he makes you think you're seeing double" ( I'd hate to range calve a bunch of those ) and "his calves are scale crushers" or "he should definitely be considered for play in the majors". I wonder if some people ever embarrass themselves.

Extra-terrestrial Angus... our cattle are out of this world. Cool
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EddieM



Posts : 980
Join date : 2010-09-24
Location : South Carolina

PostSubject: Re: Selling "Blue Sky" is so yesterday   Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:48 am

Sounds like he was licking a mushroom while he was writing the captions.
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Dylan Biggs



Posts : 406
Join date : 2011-03-07

PostSubject: Re: Selling "Blue Sky" is so yesterday   Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:50 pm

Jack McNamee wrote:
The dumbest ones I've seen are "he's so thick he makes you think you're seeing double" ( I'd hate to range calve a bunch of those ) and "his calves are scale crushers" or "he should definitely be considered for play in the majors". I wonder if some people ever embarrass themselves.

Extra-terrestrial Angus... our cattle are out of this world. Cool

The crazy part of it is that most of these guys have repeated this kind of BS for so long and so repeatedly that they have actually brain washed themselves into believing it.

The one that tops it all for me is a pro promoter up here who claims his bull is......wait for it......."THE KING of THE WORLD".

Shocked Shocked Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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EddieM



Posts : 980
Join date : 2010-09-24
Location : South Carolina

PostSubject: Re: Selling "Blue Sky" is so yesterday   Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:23 pm

Quote :
The one that tops it all for me is a pro promoter up here who claims his bull is......wait for it......."THE KING of THE WORLD".

IMHO I'm guessing that the bull is in Iowa Razz
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Dylan Biggs



Posts : 406
Join date : 2011-03-07

PostSubject: Re: Selling "Blue Sky" is so yesterday   Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:29 pm

EddieM wrote:
Quote :
The one that tops it all for me is a pro promoter up here who claims his bull is......wait for it......."THE KING of THE WORLD".

IMHO I'm guessing that the bull is in Iowa Razz

Raised in Alberta, he may be in Iowa now I am not sure.
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PostSubject: Re: Selling "Blue Sky" is so yesterday   Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:06 pm

Here's another one for you Grassfarmer. "Full sibs" - many times the hypsters promote the hypocrisy of the value of full sibs. So far, we have found here in the breeding of sheep, cattle, horses and dogs, the differences in full sibs, linebred or otherwise, to be as different as night and day in most cases. Yet the promoters, especially of cattle, push this hypocrisy as much as any. Thoughts welcomed from everyone, especially the "Canadian Clan". I'm very intrigued with the Canadian connection here. You guys could be the group that turns the cattle breeding systems upside down in Canada.
Dennis Voss, in the vicinity of the Two Dot bridge
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EddieM



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Location : South Carolina

PostSubject: Re: Selling "Blue Sky" is so yesterday   Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:52 pm

Quote :
we have found here in the breeding of sheep, cattle, horses and dogs, the differences in full sibs, linebred or otherwise, to be as different as night and day in most cases. Yet the promoters, especially of cattle, push this hypocrisy as much as any.

Makes an interesting thought on the value of low accuarcy EPDs used to sell them as yearlings.
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RobertMac



Posts : 399
Join date : 2010-09-28
Location : Mississippi, USA

PostSubject: Re: Selling "Blue Sky" is so yesterday   Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:08 pm

Bought a flush and got 2 bulls and 4 heifers...all different phenotypes.
Bought 3 pregnant recipes...2 had twin heifers, the other a heifer. The twins were alike and both sets were alike...the single heifer was different. One set of twins still here...the other wouldn't take their calves.
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Dylan Biggs



Posts : 406
Join date : 2011-03-07

PostSubject: Re: Selling "Blue Sky" is so yesterday   Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:02 pm

Dennis Voss wrote:
Here's another one for you Grassfarmer. "Full sibs" - many times the hypsters promote the hypocrisy of the value of full sibs. So far, we have found here in the breeding of sheep, cattle, horses and dogs, the differences in full sibs, linebred or otherwise, to be as different as night and day in most cases. Yet the promoters, especially of cattle, push this hypocrisy as much as any. Thoughts welcomed from everyone, especially the "Canadian Clan". I'm very intrigued with the Canadian connection here. You guys could be the group that turns the cattle breeding systems upside down in Canada.
Dennis Voss, in the vicinity of the Two Dot bridge

Dennis, my expeience with dogs, horses, and cattle, as regards there differences is the same. As a kid my full brother and I were never recognized as siblings either. Very Happy

I am not quite sure how it qualifies as hypocracy, but there is no doubt that the implication is that there breeding results will be more consistent because they are full sibs, which as you observe simply does not seem to be the case.

Your statement that I find interesting "inbred or otherwise".

IYO, is this regardless of the degree of homozygosity in the full sibs?

Not having the experience with individuals with high degree of homozygosity I personally have no experience to base an opinion on. But in theory from what I have read on this site, assuming my comprehension and understanding is even in the ball park, familial concentrated homozygosity is supposed to result in a decrease in differences, is it not?

Dylan Biggs
in the vicinity of nowhere (Spondin) Very Happy
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Dylan Biggs



Posts : 406
Join date : 2011-03-07

PostSubject: Re: Selling "Blue Sky" is so yesterday   Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:05 pm

EddieM wrote:
Quote :
we have found here in the breeding of sheep, cattle, horses and dogs, the differences in full sibs, linebred or otherwise, to be as different as night and day in most cases. Yet the promoters, especially of cattle, push this hypocrisy as much as any.

Makes an interesting thought on the value of low accuarcy EPDs used to sell them as yearlings.

From my experience the value of low accuracy EPD's is very LOW! Very Happy
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MKeeney
Admin


Posts : 5022
Join date : 2010-09-21

PostSubject: Re: Selling "Blue Sky" is so yesterday   Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:22 am

Dylan Biggs wrote:
Dennis Voss wrote:
Here's another one for you Grassfarmer. "Full sibs" - many times the hypsters promote the hypocrisy of the value of full sibs. So far, we have found here in the breeding of sheep, cattle, horses and dogs, the differences in full sibs, linebred or otherwise, to be as different as night and day in most cases. Yet the promoters, especially of cattle, push this hypocrisy as much as any. Thoughts welcomed from everyone, especially the "Canadian Clan". I'm very intrigued with the Canadian connection here. You guys could be the group that turns the cattle breeding systems upside down in Canada.
Dennis Voss, in the vicinity of the Two Dot bridge

Dennis, my expeience with dogs, horses, and cattle, as regards there differences is the same. As a kid my full brother and I were never recognized as siblings either. Very Happy

I am not quite sure how it qualifies as hypocracy, but there is no doubt that the implication is that there breeding results will be more consistent because they are full sibs, which as you observe simply does not seem to be the case.

Your statement that I find interesting "inbred or otherwise".

IYO, is this regardless of the degree of homozygosity in the full sibs?

Not having the experience with individuals with high degree of homozygosity I personally have no experience to base an opinion on. But in theory from what I have read on this site, assuming my comprehension and understanding is even in the ball park, familial concentrated homozygosity is supposed to result in a decrease in differences, is it not?Dylan Biggs
in the vicinity of nowhere (Spondin) Very Happy
as parents yes...but not neccessarily in the newly created inbreds themselves...
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PostSubject: Re: Selling "Blue Sky" is so yesterday   Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:11 pm

Dylan Biggs wrote:
Dennis Voss wrote:
Here's another one for you Grassfarmer. "Full sibs" - many times the hypsters promote the hypocrisy of the value of full sibs. So far, we have found here in the breeding of sheep, cattle, horses and dogs, the differences in full sibs, linebred or otherwise, to be as different as night and day in most cases. Yet the promoters, especially of cattle, push this hypocrisy as much as any. Thoughts welcomed from everyone, especially the "Canadian Clan". I'm very intrigued with the Canadian connection here. You guys could be the group that turns the cattle breeding systems upside down in Canada.
Dennis Voss, in the vicinity of the Two Dot bridge


Dennis, my expeience with dogs, horses, and cattle, as regards there differences is the same. As a kid my full brother and I were never recognized as siblings either.

I am not quite sure how it qualifies as hypocracy, but there is no doubt that the implication is that there breeding results will be more consistent because they are full sibs, which as you observe simply does not seem to be the case.

Your statement that I find interesting "inbred or otherwise".

IYO, is this regardless of the degree of homozygosity in the full sibs?

Not having the experience with individuals with high degree of homozygosity I personally have no experience to base an opinion on. But in theory from what I have read on this site, assuming my comprehension and understanding is even in the ball park, familial concentrated homozygosity is supposed to result in a decrease in differences, is it not?

Dylan Biggs
in the vicinity of nowhere (Spondin)

Dylan,
I fell off the bridge when I said inbred or otherwise. Thank you for pointing that out. The truly inbred cattle I have around here are quite consistent and equal in phenotype and production. My pendulum swings wide. The hypocrisy comes into play from the promotional end of things. For example, one might produce a good healthy 10 head of flush full sibs. One bull stands out from all the rest (I'm talking about mainstream cattle not line or inbred cattle). This one bull really rings the bell, everybody uses him, everybody loves him, all is well with the world and his value is at the top of the heap. In terms of having promotional potential, the full sibs never measure up, the full sib sisters are disasters, but yet the hypsters attain a great deal of mileage promoting the full sibs even though they go out and create nothing but disappointment. Every single mainstream catalog utilizes this promotional tool with regard to full sibs. So hopefully this straightens out something that I should have probably kept my mouth shut about in the first place. Speaking of full sib disappointments, I once raised 2 full sib brothers to 6807. These boys I named HBR Traveler Jim 3807 and HBR Traveler Bob 4807. Both were very average, common, plain Traveler sons. 6807 on the other hand ate all the corn, all of Leo's feed trucks at the Midland bull test. He was a tank and a truck and a monster at the time. He was a great big, fat slob with a hell of a belly and he really stood out at the time because of it. His 2 brothers looked very little like him in most respects. Keep up your good work Dylan, especially up at the 4.9. I shall live vicariously through you up at the 4.9. One good cowboy up at the 4.9, put it this way, "Voss you spurred their ribs raw up there and it's no wonder why you'd better stay out of there".
Dennis Voss, hanging on the edge of the Two Dot bridge with one hand
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Bob H



Posts : 425
Join date : 2011-02-17
Location : SW Idaho

PostSubject: Re: Selling "Blue Sky" is so yesterday   Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:01 pm

Our experince in inbreeding dog's, horse's and cattle are that if you can live with the percentage of fallout, the remaining population will continue to propogate in the form that you perfer and improve the percentage's . If the percentage is to high that don't fit the form that you like you have selected the wrong line.
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Selling "Blue Sky" is so yesterday
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