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PostSubject: Heifers for sale   Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:01 pm

I have 27 coming yearling heifers for sale, that I have learned from 4.9barY are worth thousands. 6 of them are Keeney heifers. I will take $1800 apiece. You can also have all of this years crop for $1400 November 1st. should be another 30 or so. Smile
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Tom D
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PostSubject: Re: Heifers for sale   Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:48 pm

Sir Gregory, I will take them all. I'm sure that I can calve them out, breed them back, and then sell them for $2,500 a piece. Do you take paypal?
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PostSubject: Re: Heifers for sale   Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:05 pm

Tom D wrote:
Sir Gregory, I will take them all. I'm sure that I can calve them out, breed them back, and then sell them for $2,500 a piece. Do you take paypal?

I have to warn you, they don't have giant heads from stunting. I think you might need that to get the $2500. I only take checks written on pieces of birchbark.
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Tom D
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PostSubject: Re: Heifers for sale   Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:32 pm

You noticed that too, huh?
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PostSubject: Re: Heifers for sale   Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:18 pm

Tom D wrote:
You noticed that too, huh?

Uh huh... Smile
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Charles



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PostSubject: Re: Heifers for sale   Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:06 pm

Everything is BIGGER over here in the Buckeye state! Just to make it interesting, I will take $1850 for my heifers........because a few of them were sired by one of the fabled Irish Black bulls of Colorado!!!

Charles the Celt who gave up cat wrangling recently with Sir Gregory
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PostSubject: Re: Heifers for sale   Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:47 am

Charles wrote:
Everything is BIGGER over here in the Buckeye state! Just to make it interesting, I will take $1850 for my heifers........because a few of them were sired by one of the fabled Irish Black bulls of Colorado!!!

Charles the Celt who gave up cat wrangling recently with Sir Gregory

Do your cute little Irish cattle have white bands around them?
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Charles



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PostSubject: Re: Heifers for sale   Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:42 pm

No white bands, but lots of white spots, you would say they are holstiens or holstein crosses from afar...............

Charles future BTO (Big Time Operator)
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: Heifers for sale   Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:39 pm

Always been curious about those "Irish Black" TM cattle and what there origin really was. There was a guy Walter Shortt in Northern Ireland that developed a breed he called "Tyrone" Blacks (named after the county) which were bred off a Friesian/Charolais/Angus mix. That always seemed a more likely breed origin to meet the claims of this wonderful Colorado species than Friesian alone. I've seen plenty Friesian cattle and they were a beefier dairy breed but not to the extent of beef characteristics these cattle are claimed to possess.
Seems just like everything in Texas is bigger, everything in Colorado is what was that word....aggrandized? Very Happy
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Charles



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PostSubject: Re: Heifers for sale   Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:48 pm

I owned 6 Irish Black cows and an Irish Black bull for a little over 2 years. I got interested in them as an alternative to terminal Angus breeding. The Irish Black "breed" was formed by Maurice Boney in the 1970's when he and several others imported some beef Friesian bulls and semen. Boney had some old fashioned short legged Angus cows and he bred them to an Irish Friesian bull. He then took the resulting heifers and bred them to a second Irish Friesian bull. The resulting heifers from the second Friesian bull were then mated back to the first Friesian bull which was their grandsire. Then resulting heifers were mated back to the second Friesian bull. Boney stopped with some of the cattle at the 15/16's Friesian level, some were mated back and forth a couple more times. Since then Boney has used a mixture of population genetics and linebreeding within the pool of 15/16's or greater Irish Friesian blood. The 2 orginal bulls were named Turepo & Falko, those names are stacked in all the pedigrees.

The cows suffered greatly from inbreeding depression although I didn't understand what it was at that time. All I knew was that they were small knotty infertile cows that I couldn't get any real flesh on and they never did shed all of their winter hair. Very hard keeping cattle. Some of the problem may have been related to environmental change bringing them here to Ohio. One cow had a big white spot on her right hip. All 6 got bred the first year, but I lost 3 of those calves due to double muscling. Double muscled calves weighed 120-130 lbs and had to be pulled, were dead. Only was able to get 3 of them bred back the second year, 1 double muscled calf dead, 2 were alive in year 2.

The bull was an agressive breeder, he bred 57 cows the first season (including the IB cows) and 54 the second breeding season. All of my commercial cows but one got bred the first year, all got bred the second year that were exposed to him. Each year about 40-45 of them calved in 25 days, the rest in another heat cycle. Each year I got 4-5 double muscled calves out of the commercial cows, but my cows were pretty big and had them OK. The bull turned into a mankilling type as bad or worse than any dairy bull. Toward the end you couldn't go into the pasture with him. Got him lured into a concrete block barn by chance, managed to load him off to slaughter. If this hadn't happened, the .270 winchester would have been used.

My commercial cows were Char/Angus & Simmental/Angus crosses. Most of the calves came out red & white spotted or black & white spotted. There is a lot of Holstein color just under that Irish Black hide. The IB cross calves grew well, there was some real heterosis present. However, I got docked heavily on the calves because they looked like dairy crosses. I eventually talked with several people who had experience with beef Friesian cattle including Tim Ohlde. All told me that you must keep the Friesian blood below 1/2 to avoid spotting, preferably 1/4 or less as in Ohlde's Angus II cattle.

Charles
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: Heifers for sale   Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:10 pm

Charles wrote:
I owned 6 Irish Black cows and an Irish Black bull for a little over 2 years. I got interested in them as an alternative to terminal Angus breeding. The Irish Black "breed" was formed by Maurice Boney in the 1970's when he and several others imported some beef Friesian bulls and semen. Boney had some old fashioned short legged Angus cows and he bred them to an Irish Friesian bull. He then took the resulting heifers and bred them to a second Irish Friesian bull. The resulting heifers from the second Friesian bull were then mated back to the first Friesian bull which was their grandsire. Then resulting heifers were mated back to the second Friesian bull. Boney stopped with some of the cattle at the 15/16's Friesian level, some were mated back and forth a couple more times. Since then Boney has used a mixture of population genetics and linebreeding within the pool of 15/16's or greater Irish Friesian blood. The 2 orginal bulls were named Turepo & Falko, those names are stacked in all the pedigrees.

The cows suffered greatly from inbreeding depression although I didn't understand what it was at that time. All I knew was that they were small knotty infertile cows that I couldn't get any real flesh on and they never did shed all of their winter hair. Very hard keeping cattle. Some of the problem may have been related to environmental change bringing them here to Ohio. One cow had a big white spot on her right hip. All 6 got bred the first year, but I lost 3 of those calves due to double muscling. Double muscled calves weighed 120-130 lbs and had to be pulled, were dead. Only was able to get 3 of them bred back the second year, 1 double muscled calf dead, 2 were alive in year 2.

The bull was an agressive breeder, he bred 57 cows the first season (including the IB cows) and 54 the second breeding season. All of my commercial cows but one got bred the first year, all got bred the second year that were exposed to him. Each year about 40-45 of them calved in 25 days, the rest in another heat cycle. Each year I got 4-5 double muscled calves out of the commercial cows, but my cows were pretty big and had them OK. The bull turned into a mankilling type as bad or worse than any dairy bull. Toward the end you couldn't go into the pasture with him. Got him lured into a concrete block barn by chance, managed to load him off to slaughter. If this hadn't happened, the .270 winchester would have been used.

My commercial cows were Char/Angus & Simmental/Angus crosses. Most of the calves came out red & white spotted or black & white spotted. There is a lot of Holstein color just under that Irish Black hide. The IB cross calves grew well, there was some real heterosis present. However, I got docked heavily on the calves because they looked like dairy crosses. I eventually talked with several people who had experience with beef Friesian cattle including Tim Ohlde. All told me that you must keep the Friesian blood below 1/2 to avoid spotting, preferably 1/4 or less as in Ohlde's Angus II cattle.

Charles

Some questions;

What is an Irish Friesian ?
Where does the double muscling come from as it doesn't exist in either the Friesian or Angus breeds?
What color would you expect cattle that were 15/16ths B+W to be?
What are "beef friesian" cattle?
scratch
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Charles



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PostSubject: Re: Heifers for sale   Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:24 pm

Grassfarmer,
Maurice Boney claimed that in Ireland there was a seperate strain of Friesian cattle that had been developed for beef production only. These are "beef Friesians" or sometimes called "Irish Friesians" according to Boney. Boney claimed to have culled out all cattle that had any white on them over the years since the early 1970's. Only solid black coloration was supposed to be present and they were supposed to breed true black and would throw all black calves on colored cows because of the all black linebreeding. Just like the pics on the IB website.

Much aggrandaziation.

Charles


Last edited by Charles on Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Charles



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PostSubject: Re: Heifers for sale   Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:30 pm

Some have claimed that there is other blood in these cattle besides Friesian and Angus. Only Boney really knows. I found out that they carry the myostatin (spelling) gene that came from somewhere.

Charles
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: Heifers for sale   Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:59 pm

I don't believe the story of beef friesian or irish friesian strains. I think if you checked you would find a very short period of history where friesians were used in Ireland before they were cross-bred with Holsteins as happened across the UK. Indeed i'm sure the influence of friesian in Ireland was very limited as they had a much stronger and longer surviving tradition of using shorthorns. Through the 60s-90s there was a very strong trade in Angus sired females out of dual purpose Shorthorn born on the limestone pastures of SW Ireland but sold into the beef herds of Scotland and Northern England. These were called "Irish blues" to differentiate them from the Scottish "blue greys" (white shorthorn x Galloway and could be either black or blue roan in color. These Irish blues were outstanding F1 cows when bred Charolais. I can see some of these black "Irish blue" cattle having merit in forming a breed or strain and wonder if that may in fact be some of what Boney used. One thing for sure - you never knew what you were getting out of Ireland. These cattle off the West coast came from subsistance agriculture - the cattle dealers put together the heifer packages by walking along the village streets buying one or two from every householder and I've heard it said that if the dealer was told they were bred heifers when he walked down the street he might be told they were open on the way back up.
I wouldn't trust the Irish too much on the cattle front - not in the south anyway, Ulster is different.
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PostSubject: Re: Heifers for sale   Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:12 am

Grassfarmer wrote:
I don't believe the story of beef friesian or irish friesian strains. I think if you checked you would find a very short period of history where friesians were used in Ireland before they were cross-bred with Holsteins as happened across the UK. Indeed i'm sure the influence of friesian in Ireland was very limited as they had a much stronger and longer surviving tradition of using shorthorns. Through the 60s-90s there was a very strong trade in Angus sired females out of dual purpose Shorthorn born on the limestone pastures of SW Ireland but sold into the beef herds of Scotland and Northern England. These were called "Irish blues" to differentiate them from the Scottish "blue greys" (white shorthorn x Galloway and could be either black or blue roan in color. These Irish blues were outstanding F1 cows when bred Charolais. I can see some of these black "Irish blue" cattle having merit in forming a breed or strain and wonder if that may in fact be some of what Boney used. One thing for sure - you never knew what you were getting out of Ireland. These cattle off the West coast came from subsistance agriculture - the cattle dealers put together the heifer packages by walking along the village streets buying one or two from every householder and I've heard it said that if the dealer was told they were bred heifers when he walked down the street he might be told they were open on the way back up.
I wouldn't trust the Irish too much on the cattle front - not in the south anyway, Ulster is different.

GF: We Irish take exception to your lack of trust! Smile I think you only have to watch out for the Irish in Montana...

Tim Ohlde has several pure Beef Friesian cows. They are black and white just like Holsteins, but the resemblance ends there. They are very thick and heavily muscled. I have seen them with my own eyes, last August to be precise as to the latest date... Unlike Leprechauns they do exist. Smile Although over at the 4.9barY they do go on and on about an evil Leprechaun from Kentucky.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Heifers for sale   Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:42 pm

awww...as a child of the 60`s, there was a song for every occasion still etched in my memories...the story plot never changes; just the players...

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away



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Adam Henson



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PostSubject: Re: Heifers for sale   Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:22 pm

Maybe you should add these lyrics...

Singing songs and carrying signs
Mostly say, hooray for our side
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Heifers for sale   Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:04 pm

Adam Henson wrote:
Maybe you should add these lyrics...

Singing songs and carrying signs
Mostly say, hooray for our side
Very Happy WELL, that`s the point and the laugh of the day Adam..how could I have skipped the most pertinent line... Smile
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: Heifers for sale   Sat Feb 26, 2011 8:33 pm

Quote :
I have 27 coming yearling heifers for sale, that I have learned from 4.9barY are worth thousands. 6 of them are Keeney heifers.

Can you tell us any of the past 4 or 5 generations of these girls so that if something doesn't work out right with their development or the results of a calving ease bull we can blame the past owners of the females and their matings? clown I may be as stubborn as a mule, but I'm learning something new every day.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Heifers for sale   Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:53 pm

EddieM wrote:
Quote :
I have 27 coming yearling heifers for sale, that I have learned from 4.9barY are worth thousands. 6 of them are Keeney heifers.

Can you tell us any of the past 4 or 5 generations of these girls so that if something doesn't work out right with their development or the results of a calving ease bull we can blame the past owners of the females and their matings? clown I may be as stubborn as a mule, but I'm learning something new every day.

I`m starting a new policy in this heifer selling business...I`m only going to be responsible for the heifers I recieved a check for...now I will gladly take responsibility for any future generations of heifers or bulls any of our breeding might produce raised by someone else, merely by the seller forwarding us the check for the cattle;.... checks from where the buyer has fell prey to a batch of overwhelming business model bullshit will have 35 % of their money refunded immediately to help remedy that sore arse that bootheel writes of so poetically...
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chocolate cow



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PostSubject: Re: Heifers for sale   Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:21 am

This add was in today's "shoppers guide":

Open, black, badly maternally bred, Angus Hereford cross heifers, ready to breed this Spring. Call............

If anyone wants the phone#, pm me for more information!!!! Bet the guy who paid for the add is unhappy tonight.
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Mean Spirit



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PostSubject: Re: Heifers for sale   Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:20 am

I bet he does fine with the ad. According to what I read, badly maternal angus are selling well
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