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 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale

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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:54 pm

It doesn`t appear things have changed much in the breeding program since last year`s pics , nothing new and approved
except KY farm welfare programs...for the cattle that need help with the feed bill...Happily, we`re ineligible...too self-responsible...
and it`s too dangerous, you can get trampled by all the conservative whiners fighting for a better place in the line...
4 inches of rain yesterday pretty well sets the stage for fall grass...and weeds...




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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:32 pm

You need a fresh challenge Mike - and I think i've found one for you cheers

Chance to be a "game-changer in the beef industry" - and with a small herd more time left to golf, lol.

https://www.agcanada.com/daily/newfoundland-seeks-beef-cattle-breeder
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:47 am

Grassfarmer wrote:
You need a fresh challenge Mike - and I think i've found one for you cheers

Chance to be a "game-changer in the beef industry" - and with a small herd more time left to golf, lol.

https://www.agcanada.com/daily/newfoundland-seeks-beef-cattle-breeder

pretty tight genetic base there...Smile I`m afraid weather could become a golf factor...degree of difficulty
could be a factor as well...nothing compared to selling a common sense approach to cattle breeding though...

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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:42 pm



Customer..Just wanted to call and tell you these calves by that first bull are really pleasing, especially the heifer calves . ..I think you called him Sniff the Wind...

  He was a son..

Customer. ..would you know the pedigree of the cow ? So we could we get more bulls like him..

  I don't know the pedigree or remember the specific, cow...but I can send you 35 bulls like him next spring if you would like Smile

 Customer...Laughing...Really ?, I could use three for sure

 It's the SELECTION  PROGRAM that creates the functional characteristics,  not the pedigree or attention to specific individuals. .

 Customer..How's the sale going to work...a video auction ?

No, all the bulls will be the same price...I don't know which one is best,  so how could you? ..whIle there will be differences, I'm sure none of the bulls will do your cow herd any glaring harm...

Customer...what if two of us want the same bull?

Get over it...and pick another...we'll just video by the different sire groups , not individually...if you aren't here, just tell me what group you want bulls from...good luck deciding, the only sire group that will be different will be calving ease bulls, by design and environment..

Customer. ..I have bought 8 bulls the last two years, will I get preference over new customers

Definitely,  volume and program buyers, first choice...in fact new customers will be charged $200 to inspect the offering and program before the sale...if they buy a bull, the $200 will apply to their purchase...a win, win either way...

Customer...are you that busy?

No, my cows afford me lots of leisure,  but my patience is short..

Customer...couldn't you make more money with a more traditional sale?

Probably, money isn't everything...this is about  principles. ..tru-line breeding principles and genetic value instead of promotional Bs...
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:43 pm



After flirting in side experiments with some of the more extreme types of Angus cows, the middle is where the solid ground is in this country...
hard grass country may be a different story, but I doubt short grass country is...
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:55 am

Regretfully, I need to be more clear about what "the guarantee in the price" means...specifically, NO, you cannot bring
a bull back that has failed or one you have decided no longer suits your fancy; and NO, we will not replace a bull...if you want "satisfaction guaranteed" bulls, buy
them somewhere else and likely pay double price...and see how you get along getting a replacement from OCC , PCC, ETC...GAR
appears the most accommodating of the breeders I know, that`s a triple price situation...
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:02 am



Bobby Jones was a golf guru; Bobby Jones could play golf.
I want to be a cattle breeding guru; the qualifications are far less demanding. Declaration is 90% of the
qualification; ownership of a cow is not necessary, and neither is being income dependent on cattle raising .
A degree in Animal science can suffice ; a political appointment works better, especially if you have a welfare
slush fund to distribute to your following. You don't have to be a philanthropist; you can take your money from
someone else and redistribute it at your whim.
You can then use the fake news agencies at your discretion to tell how your actions are helping the state beef cattle
industry; though THE FACTS that REAL CATTLEMEN make a living with dispute it clearly...the long term trend is FEWER
beef cows in KY, and $1.09/cwt for slaughter cattle drowns out your rhetoric ...down here on the farm where the hooves
meet the soil and the mouths eat the grass, we are perfectly capable of taking care of our own business, if the bureaucrat
is to help the beef business, he must move farther up the monopolistic marketing chain, to achieve anything there, you must
work harder and be smarter than us at the bottom of the chain, and I see no evidence you are capable of either...

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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:24 am

MKeeney wrote:
Regretfully, I need to be more clear about what "the guarantee in the price" means...specifically, NO, you cannot bring
a bull back that has failed or one you have decided no longer suits your fancy; and NO, we will not replace a bull...if you want "satisfaction guaranteed" bulls, buy
them somewhere else and likely pay double price...and see how you get along getting a replacement from OCC , PCC, ETC...GAR
appears the most accommodating of the breeders I know, that`s a triple price situation...

too funny, if you fall for the breeding premise, why not the guarantee as well..

Therefore, for the first time ever, all bulls purchased at a cataloged PCC bull sale will be guaranteed for one year from the date of purchase against injury or loss that renders them incapable of breeding, with the following exceptions.

Exceptions:
     Incurred during transportation
     Caused by motorized vehicle and/or equipment
     Caused by disease, nutrition or poisoning
     Caused by carelessness or neglect
     Caused by failure to maintain acceptable animal husbandry
     Caused by poor management (e.g., low cow to bull ratio)
     Caused by acts of God, war, insurrection or terrorism

This guarantee applies only to bulls that have been maintained, at all times, by the original purchaser for breeding purposes that are consistent with acceptable industry standards.   All injuries must be examined by a licensed veterinarian within 48 hours of injury.   If the attending veterinarian deems treatment would be in the best interest of the animal, then treatment should be administered.   Customer must notify PCC immediately after the bull has been examined by the veterinarian.   A letter from the attending veterinarian that identifies the animal, identifies the problem and provides an expected prognosis will be required.   Pharo Cattle Company reserves the right to get a second opinion from another veterinarian.   Getting the bull back into breeding condition will always be our first and primary objective.

If it is determined that the bull has sustained permanent damage, PCC will issue a credit for the purchase price less salvage value. If it is determined the bull should be functional for the following breeding season, PCC will issue a credit for 50% of the purchase price, and the customer will keep the bull. The credit must be used at a cataloged PCC bull sale within one year of the date it was issued.
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:52 am

We never wean very much calf off two year olds, nutritional and planned genetic limitations; they will catch up by spring..
.the last thing I want is a big calf dragging a pound off the heifer every day he gains two pounds...a heifer here weaning a
calf that looks as good as a cow's calf, is probably out of the program by 5 years old. ..from this quick pic sampling will come next years heifer breeding
and cow making using bulls...all born unassisted from two's, three different sires, none will be sire identified, all sires
already sold, I see some differences, we'll select on type and dams. ..after seeing the dams, it will be type...because the
dams are pretty much all of the same, fault free caliber...looks like we kept about ten bull calves, we`ll need three, leaving
5 or so to sell in the top 25 sale
.

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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:06 am

Everything is too beautiful on facebook for me to post such "made in the shade" multiple pictures { to show it isn`t just one}
bleached out enough to show the general type and
detail to udder teat etc...neither is the closed herd, ten point plan, with inbreeding finding its own level, accepted...when the
pedigree crowd creates greater consistency than these two yr old dams of the ratty little bull calves we will keep {and feed}
, I`ll applaud them...they may sell for more money, socially acceptability, at the end of ten years, we can review and compare our cattle and bank accounts...
some of these {23} will likely be open, they always are...definitely, won`t be sold, become fall calvers, and never miss again...
I notice the registered critics of such, are always OUTCROSSING to SOME ELSES bull...we`ll wean calves shortly, there are no beet tops, silage, or alfalfa hay
to create "fleshing ease" before winter...soft grass with some time will suffice...








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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:35 pm

200 years on the continent, 150 making them little, 50 making them big, and never fixing the problems that make them bad...add Lasater as well
to the mix that never included udders in the six essentials...




Keeney Angus, bearing the expense of finding the truth so you don`t have too...sometimes, just looking on the cheao
over the fence at the neighbors cows...
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:28 pm

MKeeney wrote:
...a heifer here weaning a calf that looks as good as a cow's calf, is probably out of the program by 5 years old.

Yep, that's been our experience too. Also kept a couple of bred heifers once that carried enough flesh they could live with the mature cows on poor grazing- didn't work either - turned out to be sub-fertile, dink producers and were culled open by 5. Not interested in keeping outliers any more.
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:48 am

Grassfarmer wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
...a heifer here weaning a calf that looks as good as a cow's calf, is probably out of the program by 5 years old.

Yep, that's been our experience too. Also kept a couple of bred heifers once that carried enough flesh they could live with the mature cows on poor grazing- didn't work either - turned out to be sub-fertile, dink producers and were culled open by 5. Not interested in keeping outliers any more.

what`s the correct word...Jaded...Arrogant...Superior...Conceited??? hang around Larry Leonhardt on the porch or here in discussion, and you have attitude when you read
BS on the internet or print...some honestly don`t know any better, they see these rare individuals promoted by the big dogs, so they bark in pursuit of the same game...AND
may outsell us...BUT that`s been covered too ...ENOUGH...

Larry wrote on 2-8-2012

Kendra, thank you for your post which ended with ".....So we will organize our children and teach them to do in a perfect way the things their fathers and mothers are doing in an imperfect way, in the homes, in the shops, on the farm.".
A depressing example of how the elite leaders of mankind have been manipulating the populace throughout recorded history. History records that over time the unrest of the populace ultimately revolts and the process begins anew over and over again, each creating a new set of ever increasing governing rules and regulatory laws designed, promoted and enforced to control the populace.

Civil disobedience often grows out of inequity or unjustifiable infringements. Pertinent to our own little cattle breeding world, MK publicly announced his emancipation renouncing the AAA's manipulative powers with his dissenting public "Declaration of Independence". Going down this independent road less traveled hoping the truth shall set us free, questions have arisen that need to be clarified to avoid any misconceived perceptions in regards to what we'll call the "TruLine Road". The conceptual purpose of "TruLine" was not conceived to create a new society to act as a central oversight agency for like-minded breeders with new man made rules and regulatory laws.....the only applicable law on this lonely road is Natural Law. Certifying any authenticity while establishing genetic truths is the exclusive responsibilty of each independent breeder , chained to his clientele, they will sink or swim together.

Therefore, the sole purpose of "TruLine"is educational, a conceptual and realistic direction towards harnessing hybrid power.....a cohesive effort is required to describe the practical and potential merits of stabilized populations. It is not to continue teaching "the things our fathers and mothers are doing in an imperfect way", but to stimulate independent rational thought based on common sense.

"TruLine" is not to determine what types of cattle to establish, but to change the direction to isolate and stabilize the various types rather than combining chaotic integration with extremes. Genetic chaos creates manipulative connivers who thrive on populace ignorance promoting unlimited hopes and aspirations. Harnessing hybrid power is not a panacea of profound promises, but it offers a better way to provide lasting economic progress for those tired, weary and hungry from following the charades of the mainstream parades.
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:35 pm

MKeeney wrote:
Grassfarmer wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
...a heifer here weaning a calf that looks as good as a cow's calf, is probably out of the program by 5 years old.

Yep, that's been our experience too. Also kept a couple of bred heifers once that carried enough flesh they could live with the mature cows on poor grazing- didn't work either - turned out to be sub-fertile, dink producers and were culled open by 5. Not interested in keeping outliers any more.

what`s the correct word...Jaded...Arrogant...Superior...Conceited??? hang around Larry Leonhardt on the porch or here in discussion, and you have attitude when you read
BS on the internet or print...some honestly don`t know any better, they see these rare individuals promoted by the big dogs, so they bark in pursuit of the same game...AND
may outsell us...BUT that`s been covered too ...ENOUGH...

Larry wrote on 2-8-2012

Kendra, thank you for your post which ended with ".....So we will organize our children and teach them to do in a perfect way the things their fathers and mothers are doing in an imperfect way, in the homes, in the shops, on the farm.".
A depressing example of how the elite leaders of mankind have been manipulating the populace throughout recorded history. History records that over time the unrest of the populace ultimately revolts and the process begins anew over and over again, each creating a new set of ever increasing governing rules and regulatory laws designed, promoted and enforced to control the populace.

Civil disobedience often grows out of inequity or unjustifiable infringements. Pertinent to our own little cattle breeding world, MK publicly announced his emancipation renouncing the AAA's manipulative powers with his dissenting public "Declaration of Independence". Going down this independent road less traveled hoping the truth shall set us free, questions have arisen that need to be clarified to avoid any misconceived perceptions in regards to what we'll call the "TruLine Road". The conceptual purpose of "TruLine" was not conceived to create a new society to act as a central oversight agency for like-minded breeders with new man made rules and regulatory laws.....the only applicable law on this lonely road is Natural Law. Certifying any authenticity while establishing genetic truths is the exclusive responsibilty of each independent breeder , chained to his clientele, they will sink or swim together.

Therefore, the sole purpose of "TruLine"is educational, a conceptual and realistic direction towards harnessing hybrid power.....a cohesive effort is required to describe the practical and potential merits of stabilized populations. It is not to continue teaching "the things our fathers and mothers are doing in an imperfect way", but to stimulate independent rational thought based on common sense.

"TruLine" is not to determine what types of cattle to establish, but to change the direction to isolate and stabilize the various types rather than combining chaotic integration with extremes. Genetic chaos creates manipulative connivers who thrive on populace ignorance promoting unlimited hopes and aspirations. Harnessing hybrid power is not a panacea of profound promises, but it offers a better way to provide lasting economic progress for those tired, weary and hungry from following the charades of the mainstream parades.

SO The KY Grand Champion Country Ham just sold for $325,000 to Central Bank of Lexington...just what the hell does that mean or amount to, other than another batch of farm bureaucrats gone begging....?
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:11 pm



the personality of these cows cracks me up, checking them once a day...maybe...I was fully expecting man eaters, instead their attitude is
"I know where my calf is, and you don`t need to know..."
Of course, they sure have some problems, udder, teat, feet...Texas feet might not make good Ky feet...mostly I think it shows that 80 years
isn't enough to breed the problems out of three combined breeds while selecting for 6 and more essentials, maybe another 50 years and they can be
called a "breed"...
 how blessed and easy Angus breeders have it in comparison, thanks to early pioneers limiting the gene pool though others would
attempt to expand it with Holstein, swiss, chi, and maine...only to make it worse...
 then modern day, add in a Lingle, followed by a Leonhardt, and about all I have to do is finesse it a bit, but mostly not screw it up...so easy
that only greed can ruin the good beginning LL gave us in genetic organization, not just a philosophy, but cattle in fesh and blood...
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:12 am

for those who understand, no explanation is necessary;
for those who don't understand, no explanation is possible...

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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:50 pm

MKeeney wrote:
In a unique mismanagement situation that only someone who plays too much golf could accomplish...
, this cow went from an early March calving date, to Jan to November in two years , and has now moved
to the front of the fall calving season, the last 5 years about a 310 day or less calving interval...she's perfect
in every other way as well; we've used sons and this spring breeding season, we used the pictured son, two
yrs old come November... ...her sons are not perfect in every way, they are just good, carrying her genes
forward into the next generation......PERFECTION is a temporary state of affairs awaiting the next recombination..
.improved odds with close breeding, ne'er perfected. ..
It doesn't concern me at all that this son does not conform to the current trend of fat bulls with more weight on
less frame...his job is to carry her maternal genes to the next generation. And the type looks right to do just that,
in fact, he looks just like the sire of his dam, his own grandpa, pictured on paper, but even more memorable in mind`s
eye of that beautiful 2004 fall day walking the Cowley bull pens with the mentor...
this son will be for sell, July 1, $3500




There`s good news; and bad news...the good news is Dan Brown, Ohio has bought the above bull pending his
soundness after breeding cows here this fall for 21 days, and same come June 1, 2018...for good measure, Dan is adding
the fall bull calf by 977 out of this close-bred cow below, and close relationship to the older cow pictured above...Dan has been one{of few} of
the brightest of the close bred gene pool satellites I once envisioned, marketing Tru-Line to neighbors in his area...



that leaves Pete and Epitaph for lease, $500/hd, $800/both until we get the Top 25 Yearling Bulls ready next spring...

the bad news is I gotta go to work; it could be worse, I could be where Thoreau said a just man should be in unjust times, in Jail...

I`ll settle instead for exile to the silage field...the only whine you hear there is that little ole 718 chopper ingesting that 28 ton/ac silage...
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:23 pm

When I make the maternal part, and trust another breeder with the terminal part, together
we show the world how to sing in perfect harmony. ..

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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:22 pm

Sounds like a big job harvesting a big crop, here we are hoping for 15 ton/acre off one field, the other might be half that - ran out of moisture - running out of time now before frost.
Hope you don't chop silage like this - seems ass backwards way to drive the truck!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRwMJUZKH_Y
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:13 am

Very Happy scratch four loads before the showers came...and before the first thrill of a breakdown...apparently, just a corn stalk during a switch...tomorrow we go again, try again...corn plenty green , wet at 108 days. ..looks like 3 days of rains end of week, something to be said for being a grass farmer...like profit Smile 50 year anniversary of dad buidling and filling the silo...we have the origin unloader in it...the frame part at least Smile
There's a rust that comes on the corn as well, dries out the leaf pre mature of the 120 black layer ideal...
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:30 pm

Mike,
Has the silage corn production improved more over the past 50 years or the cattle eating it?

10 days into calving and only animals I have touched are the extras from 2 sets of twins. 18 cows have calved of 43 and I expect to be well past half done when weekend is over. That was not the norm for me before first using your bulls now nearly 20 years ago. 2 reasons for that I believe - Better Cattle and better management practices many of which I have observed at your place. Thanks for your efforts and enthusiasm in making cattle breeding enjoyable and sustainable for those that work off the farm.
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:39 am

Mark Day wrote:
Mike,  
Has the silage corn production improved more over the past 50 years or the cattle eating it?

10 days into calving and only animals I have touched are the extras from 2 sets of twins.  18 cows have calved of 43 and I expect to be well past half done when weekend is over.  That was not the norm for me before first using your bulls now nearly 20 years ago. 2 reasons for that I believe - Better Cattle and better management practices many of which I have observed at your place.  Thanks for your efforts and enthusiasm in making cattle breeding enjoyable and sustainable for those that work off the farm.    

Brent and I shared a laughing moment today about how simple this breeding is, of course, it only took me 50 years to figure it out Smile




I occasionally notice on post or websites for grass fed beef, beyond the obvious environmental positives,
and some health claims, an additional divine assertion of " we raise beef as God intended "...
I feel somewhat slighted by this, as God has never spoken to me personally with any directives on how to
raise beef. A positive aspect of this non-verbage is , I don't feel the least bit sinful for taking my cues from
the marketplace, and my profit-loss statement, or for feeding corn silage to background cattle, this the 50 yr
anniversary of our old concrete stave silo....There are a lot of different HOW to raise cattle, but I note almost
everyone raises cattle FOR money.
From that income-outgo balance, I derive I need a cow that is smaller, metabolically efficient, free of problems,
and lasts a long time since her annual upkeep is exceeded only by the cost of her replacement...but then those
guys selling feed and producing quality grain-fed beef want fast growth, yield grade, and carcass quality,
moderate to highly antagonistic to my ideal cow...
While some promoters would ask you to believe these characteristics are sex-linked in their stock, the daughters
doing one thing, while the sons do another, any knowledgeable cattle producer knows that frontier has only been
crossed by a pencil...so pick your tradeoff, two types, terminal on maternal as we see best, or do low input and low
output with one kind, or high out put with high input with a different kind, or anywhere in between... sorry I can`t
produce a miracle for you, even worse, it disqualifies me for sainthood...though it was akin to a miracle that there
were no machine breakdowns today cheers
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:18 pm

[/size]

the problem with preferring  the individual performance over the program performance, is when the individual
loses a calf at birth for no apparent reason, the individual fantasy story has ended...
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:53 pm

MKeeney wrote:
[/size]

the problem with preferring  the individual performance over the program performance, is when the individual
loses a calf at birth for no apparent reason, the individual fantasy story has ended...


If she is a younger cow and needs a home be happy to pay pound price for her and put a twin on her or just pick her up when I visit in Fall. Smile I know some internet Blue Sky promoters would send her to town without considering replacement costs
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:11 pm

Twin running around here as well...not too receptive, plenty stupid...not everything that comes out homozygous is good Sad
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