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 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale

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MKeeney
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PostSubject: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:38 pm

With my egotistical, costly and foolish {little nobody, big idea notion} of developing some type of breeding and marketing alliance finally ending 4 years overdue, and encouraged by a long time customer buying all our older and excess bulls, { Still got some bulls ? 5, from 2 yrs to 5 yrs old, $2000 to $2700...What day can I come get them? Saturday }
It`s time to begin anew, with a business instead of friend attitude, time to go fast instead of fickle, saying good bye to the whiners and complainers, the negotiators, need a bull not a program,  tourists, and indecisiveness....

Bob Howard mentioned you begin the selection of maternal bulls at weaning; AGREED ! but the breeding {selection} program began long before
and is producing these Sights of Summer...

the half sib{even closer} matings of Shoshone Fenley 6309a



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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:07 pm

testing...


working...
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:22 am

Pete is still here and will be for lease this fall, $500 for 60 days
His replacement in the chain of continuity could be the bull calf from a 2 yr old heifer standing in front of him...


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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:48 am

this is the type evolving here...in discussion with cattle BREEDER using the same base with differing results, probably a combination of selection{geared for maternal-terminal program}, closed herd breeding, and SE environment {grass and temps/humidity}
if you don`t like the type, I wouldn`t buy it...



supporting evidence of consistency as the summer unfolds...
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:05 pm

A customer selling at West Plains, 4300 hd MO Feeder sale
straight off cow
23 strs  704 lb 152..two cents off top
25 strs 615 167 topped market...

It`s nice to put our bulls on cows that genetically and phenotypically larger than the bulls...our bulls will downsize
the cowherd; reach genetic equilibrium over several years, and need to be outcrossed or crossbred once again for maximum efficiency...
There was obviously no economics in producing an extra 100 lbs in the current market scenario, that changes based on many factors beyond
my understanding, let alone control..say the prayer of St Francis  and march on...
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:43 am

The dog and I rode through the three yr old cows this afternoon to see if the closed herd breeding program was producing similar results in younger cows bred to a different set of multiple sires as the old cows...4 quickie calves posing makes me think it's doing ok...I don't remember the sires of these calves, or even where they ended up...Arkansas I think, but it could have been Montana, I can't remember, but if the bulls are doing the job intended, I think those commercial producers will remember me....all the things my dad told me about getting old are coming true, I can remember Larry conversations from 1984, but very little about spring 2016...I could write it down I guess, but with the current simple selection program in place, no reason to...just remember close the herd, 30 day purebred breeding season, a good calf from the most ideal cows in the herd ..There !!! I just did write it all down Smile




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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:55 pm

MKeeney wrote:
A customer selling at West Plains, 4300 hd MO Feeder sale
straight off cow
23 strs  704 lb 152..two cents off top
25 strs 615 167 topped market...

So what age would these calves be? Also what do you think of the feeder market in the US at the moment and where do you think it's heading this fall?
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:06 pm

what we have here is a failure to fully function,
taking a 6 month vacation; never to have the opportunity again, though the owner, not the cow
is responsible for creating a breeding season not conducive to peak reproduction...oh for the Beefmaster aficionados, if you can`t fix feet and udders,
you damn sure can`t fix fertility
I can give you genetics for this form with 80 plus % heritability { that leaves 40% if used on shitty cows...
whether the females function will be 80 plus % dependent on YOU...


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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:17 pm

This is a ................. son of .................. and his dam is a grand daughter of .................. The bull calf's grandmother is by .............. and his great grandmother is a daughter of ................

how exasperating...the original, traditional complete sentence with names told me no more about the breeding value of this individual than the above ...
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:47 pm

Grassfarmer wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
A customer selling at West Plains, 4300 hd MO Feeder sale
straight off cow
23 strs  704 lb 152..two cents off top
25 strs 615 167 topped market...

So what age would these calves be? Also what do you think of the feeder market in the US at the moment and where do you think it's heading this fall?
These folks calve pretty much year round, big high percentage char cows...so I don't know on age, but guessing November to January. ..the last week has been a crash, no optimism in me...America First means cheaper food for everybody
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Kent Powell



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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:57 am

If you are familiar with the individuals filling the blanks, it should tell you a lot about them. A pretty complete picture of the pen.

Since no one is familiar with a damn thing I use, the value would be limited in value to anyone but myself.

MKeeney wrote:
This is a ................. son of .................. and his dam is a grand daughter of .................. The bull calf's grandmother is by .............. and his great grandmother is a daughter of ................

how exasperating...the original, traditional complete sentence with names told me no more about the breeding value of this individual than the above ...
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:17 am

Kent Powell wrote:
If you are familiar with the individuals filling the blanks, it should tell you a lot about them. A pretty complete picture of the pen.

Since no one is familiar with a damn thing I use, the value would be limited in value to anyone but myself.  

MKeeney wrote:
This is a ................. son of .................. and his dam is a grand daughter of .................. The bull calf's grandmother is by .............. and his great grandmother is a daughter of ................

how exasperating...the original, traditional complete sentence with names told me no more about the breeding value of this individual than the above ...

I no longer know any names...just the code that gets a cow into the pen, and the misbehavior that banishes her...not from life necessarily,
but from parent stock...I`ve found most the perfect cattle in the hands of bs`ers who always use someone else`s bulls to make perfection... scratch scratch
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:33 am

going to do one last sale, the way by god, I know it should be....




And the last of the monotonous bull calf pics, boring even me with what I consider success...looks like there will be plenty of "good enough"
for me to carry on, and some excess for a few customers to sell around April 1...the sale will be a microcosm of a successful tru-line breeding
program, one price, void of superfluous tradition, forced concentration on the program instead of rare individuals, more about principle than
big payment, more extracurricular fun than business, you can have this attitude when your program pays it's way commercially instead of
paying a bank note for a high price bull...I can visualize a couple of sale videos coming, tame versions of the Running of the Bulls...Smile
til then, in tribute to my friend and the creator and improver of the Tru-line concept, LL...

“Our species is the only creative species, and it has only one creative instrument, the individual mind and spirit of man. Nothing was ever
created by two men. There are no good collaborations, whether in music, in art, in poetry, in mathematics, in philosophy. Once the miracle
of creation has taken place, the group can build and extend it, but the group never invents anything. The preciousness lies in the lonely mind of a man.”
― John Steinbeck, East of Eden
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Danny Miller



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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:08 pm

Pretty awesome thread Mike Keeney! cheers
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:58 pm

Danny Miller wrote:
Pretty awesome thread Mike Keeney! cheers
Danny , come on over... you are young enough to run in front of the bulls, I'm going to be running behind them... Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:58 pm

Dan Brown, Columbus, Ohio has quietly applied and sold the tru-line concept about as effectively as anyone I know using my cattle...selling a dozen bulls a year now to neighbors; breeding his non-parent stock cows to Wagyu bulls terminally, averaging a $265/hd premium post weaning...yelp, there`s an opportunity cost to breeding maternal...
just remembered Voss having a sale once by invitation only, good idea, don`t waste time with the speculative, give repeat customers a couple days to select bulls before new business...
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:12 pm

gotta bleach the pic a bit extra to see the udder...

ssl image
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:10 am

The easiest thing to do is always nothing, and then when profit potential disappears to blame
external forces. The benefits of a migration of breeding systems to more defined purposes
(maternal and terminal) has multiple benefits to the beef industry and individual producers. It
allows for the production of heavy terminal calves from smaller mature cows, thus increasing the
efficiency of terminal producers. Calving difficulty should be reduced, as the majority of heifers
would reside in maternal herds. It should also increase the uniformity of calves entering feedlots
because a more defined breeding objective was in place. Finally it allows for producers, in
particular smaller producers, to focus on a narrower set of traits and to excel in doing one
thing—producing terminal calves.
Matt Spangler​​ 2014

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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:15 am



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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:10 am

Grassfarmer wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
A customer selling at West Plains, 4300 hd MO Feeder sale
straight off cow
23 strs  704 lb 152..two cents off top
25 strs 615 167 topped market...

So what age would these calves be? Also what do you think of the feeder market in the US at the moment and where do you think it's heading this fall?

Cash Cattle. Packers have taken over the leverage in trading in the cash market. With trading concluded for the week, packers backed out of the market leaving a few weak sellers in the north ready to accept lower prices than the $115 live and $185 dressed paid earlier in the week for the bulk of last week's sales. These prices were three lower than last week. Volumes were good and close to 125,000 cattle traded for the week.  

While box prices remain soft not falling like fed prices, margins at the beef plant rising. Already generous margins are increasing to what will most likely be the most profitable year ever for the beef plants. Wide margins will contribute to continuing large slaughter numbers and this week was not exception with slaughter of 641,000 -- the largest of the year. To the extent those slaughter numbers can match the increasing supplies of fed cattle without crashing the box prices, will determine future prices of cattle for the balance of the year.  

Cattle Futures. The small gains Friday did little to correct the week long damage to futures prices. Whether it is the result of disillusioned longs or new short sellers or increasing supplies, there are few buyers in the futures market for cattle.  

Carcass weights are released each Thursday and are a closely watched barometer indicating the position of cattle feeders in the nation's feedlots. The last report released for the week of July 29th, had steer carcass weights were up 12# at 878# remaining 8# under prior year. Heifers were 9# under last year. There appears to be a point when carcass weights will increase and reach last year's levels and each animal will be adding tonnage to already large supplies of beef.  

Forward Cattle Contracts: Packers with the declines in cattle futures are now reaching out into September and October and picking off some cattle at $1-2 over October futures prices. USDA has corrected the reporting errors.

The weekly breakdown of fed cattle moving to the beef processing plants is as follows. 1) formulas 55%; 2) negotiated 20% [both live and flat dressed]; 3) forward contracts 25%. Some of the formula arrangements are week to week negotiated prices and not committed cattle to one plant.  

The Cutout. This week's box prices are only modestly weaker -- a good sign for beef demand. The margins for processing are widening and packers are enjoying some of the best profits in years. Retailers will be watching the rout in cattle futures and lowering their bids for the cuts.  

The choice/select spread is down to $3 from a high of $30 not so many weeks ago. [color=#ff0000]The country is producing higher and higher quality of beef and more beef falls into the choice category. When 75% of all fed cattle grade choice, it is time to create more divisions of quality...mk...epds work for terminal !!![/color]  An important aspect of the quality grade is matching up quality differences with differing price points. Buyers either pay for the quality of beef they want or the price point they can afford. Price conscious consumers buy for their budget and quality sensitive buyers want beef with a story. Good marketing satisfies both of these criteria.



Beef Feature Activity Index. There is nothing more important than beef features across the country. The regularity and emphasis on "beef specials" are the drivers of improved beef demand. It is not secret that retailers run beef features when margins are good and they have purchased beef lower. Beef specials serve as drawing cards into the stores and are profit centers. This new link provides perspective on the level of feature activity week by week in the country.








Choice Cutout

Choice Price Change

199.60 Down $1.03



Select Cutout

Select Price Change

196.12 Down $0.07



Choice/Select Spread

3.48


Replacement markets



This past week featured a bifurcated replacement market with feeder cattle $4-10 lower and calves steady to firm. The lighter the calves the more demand as rains across the plains turn attention to cattle for grazing winter wheat fields. The week started with strong pricing in the replacement market soon followed by crashing futures and the fallout in the cash replacement market.



Placements that have been running at mostly double digit gains over last year will pare back to less burdensome increases starting in July. This doesn't reflect less cattle in the country but placements will now be benchmarked against larger placements periods last year. It will become increasingly important to view monthly placement figures in the context of 5 year averages.
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:20 am

even has the right color ear tag...

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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:20 pm

I think I`ll retract that suggestion JRN buy Hereford bulls...



I think he`s the one dubbing me "greedy, paranoid" breeder...obviously, easy to see why he wouldn`t like me,
cause his cows are shit if this is what you find for a promotional pic...
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:23 pm

Continuing discussion on line breeding by pedigree and by my closed herd, no pedigree ,multiple sire program...if you are a thinker,
you should be able to discuss  pros and cons...if your mind is closed all you are fit for is to argue. ..as Tolstoy says, a waste...
Despite the pic appearance these 2 yr olds are facsimiles. ..I am very familiar with every animal in the pedigree since 1981...easier
because the same cows appears often in a 22% ibc...the primary sire in use was a cross in type, stout thick mated to a bigger
(1700 lb...western environment ) more extended,  big bodied cow who lasted til 17 with at best an average udder, longevity enhanced
by modest milk in my observation...the primary sire`s daughters ran the gauntlet of variation of the parents...this flush 33 years later,
produced only the type of the 1981 dam, bulls and females, smaller in stature than her, and udder/teat significantly improved...make
of that what you wish, limited numbers...my point is pedigree inbreeding with limited selection {not enough numbers to select from}
has likely improved consistency of type...
now to  LL quote...
so, as past data  becomes obsolete, the new paradigm will need to rely entirely on the integrity of the breeders.   AAA gathers most
of its collection data paid for at the breeder's expense, so to alleviate some of your discouragement DF, rest assured that if not public,
private RELEVANT data collection is not only important, it is essential and will not be proven by academic analysis, but by the commercial
cattlemen's competitive profitability.....otherwise,  any new paradigm will be doomed to be just another failure in our attempts to improve
the economics of beef production.

So while producing sour grapes remains part of our continual traditional habits,  economic inputs are always a major factor of the equation
in beef production as well as output.   It has been  customary for registered breeders to overlook the $EN maintenance requirements,
seemingly preferring to correct one production problem while adding more......a methodology which I call planned replacement to sustain
the monetary value of registered outliers.    I cannot do or say much to change these traditional systems, but I did make the choice to
separate myself from the "registered hypocrisy" and its monetary values.   One thing for certain beyond death and taxes, the debates
on Keeneyscorner will go on.   Time has a way of reaching out for better resolutions.....if anyone has a better idea than harnessing
hybrid power for more efficient beef production, I would be thankful to hear them.

DF asked for more discussions on the future rather than the past, so I'll just end this post here with MK's statement  
"But we know some young men who are capable of going further ; and what encouragement that is...maybe they will in time
be able to answer the only question left to be answered
'DOES THE END, JUSTIFY THE MEANS' ?. "



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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:53 am

just another random pair in paradise...

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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Keeney Angus Top 25 Bull Sale   Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:07 pm

a little dose of reality...now if I just had pedigrees, I could act real smart and determine the guilty parties..I
guess you could call this a case of incomplete dominance...since one teat is terrible, and the rest perfect...
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