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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Thought provoking excerpts   Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:30 pm

MKeeney wrote:
another obvious point...

“Most mammals emerge from the womb like glazed earthenware emerging from a kiln – any attempt at remoulding will only scratch or break them. Humans emerge from the womb like molten glass from a furnace. They can be spun, stretched and shaped with a surprising degree of freedom.”
― Yuval Noah Harari, Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind


2. There is data to support that high maternal lines are nearly 2x's more efficient then terminal genetic lines are.
3.we have found that an animals genetic line makeup is the most consistent predictor of success or failure in sustainable ranching.
4. The cow has all the power!
5. Most people are looking for a fix all sire! They use them in a random mating sequence and that can only fail no matter how much feed u have.
This is the reality of the US cow/calf industry in the last 40 years that we have been on the terminal race for Bigger calves and more profit! This model we found is absolutely backwards to how profit and sustainable genetics are realized.

exaggerated bullshit from facebook..

on target again Harari !
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Mean Spirit



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PostSubject: Re: Thought provoking excerpts   Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:30 am

MKeeney wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
another obvious point...

“Most mammals emerge from the womb like glazed earthenware emerging from a kiln – any attempt at remoulding will only scratch or break them. Humans emerge from the womb like molten glass from a furnace. They can be spun, stretched and shaped with a surprising degree of freedom.”
― Yuval Noah Harari, Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind


2. There is data to support that high maternal lines are nearly 2x's more efficient then terminal genetic lines are.
3.we have found that an animals genetic line makeup is the most consistent predictor of success or failure in sustainable ranching.
4. The cow has all the power!
5. Most people are looking for a fix all sire! They use them in a random mating sequence and that can only fail no matter how much feed u have.
This is the reality of the US cow/calf industry in the last 40 years that we have been on the terminal race for Bigger calves and more profit! This model we found is absolutely backwards to how profit and sustainable genetics are realized.

exaggerated bullshit from facebook..

on target again Harari !

Jeez-- always with the selling... Always Be Closing... why do cows have to be more than they are?

I got some facts... or at least strong hunches...
1. There is data that supports that the most efficient cattle are a little bit more efficient than the least efficient cattle.
2. An animal's genetic line matters, but management matters much more. Growing grass seems to be the most important thing.
3. The cow has 1/2-- or maybe a tiny bit more than 1/2- of the power!
4. Most people are looking for a fix all sire! They use them in a random mating sequence and that might work for some people, though the results will likely be pretty inconsistent.

No wonder I can't get anything sold...
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: Thought provoking excerpts   Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:37 am

Mean Spirit wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
another obvious point...

“Most mammals emerge from the womb like glazed earthenware emerging from a kiln – any attempt at remoulding will only scratch or break them. Humans emerge from the womb like molten glass from a furnace. They can be spun, stretched and shaped with a surprising degree of freedom.”
― Yuval Noah Harari, Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind


2. There is data to support that high maternal lines are nearly 2x's more efficient then terminal genetic lines are.
3.we have found that an animals genetic line makeup is the most consistent predictor of success or failure in sustainable ranching.
4. The cow has all the power!
5. Most people are looking for a fix all sire! They use them in a random mating sequence and that can only fail no matter how much feed u have.
This is the reality of the US cow/calf industry in the last 40 years that we have been on the terminal race for Bigger calves and more profit! This model we found is absolutely backwards to how profit and sustainable genetics are realized.

exaggerated bullshit from facebook..

on target again Harari !

Jeez-- always with the selling... Always Be Closing... why do cows have to be more than they are?

I got some facts... or at least strong hunches...
1. There is data that supports that the most efficient cattle are a little bit more efficient than the least efficient cattle.
2. An animal's genetic line matters, but management matters much more. Growing grass seems to be the most important thing.
3. The cow has 1/2-- or maybe a tiny bit more than 1/2- of the power!
4. Most people are looking for a fix all sire! They use them in a random mating sequence and that might work for some people, though the results will likely be pretty inconsistent.  

No wonder I can't get anything sold...
I would add 5. to the list as "When starting a herd or a line or trialing a bull from off the farm or from outside the environment expect cull rates to run from 100% to 85% for economic considerations." And 6. "The best additions to your genepool will be a 25% outcross of current genetics proven to work in your environment."
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Thought provoking excerpts   Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:55 pm

Jeez-- always with the selling... Always Be Closing... why do cows have to be more than they are?

I got some facts... or at least strong hunches...
1. There is data that supports that the most efficient cattle are a little bit more efficient than the least efficient cattle.
2. An animal's genetic line matters, but management matters much more. Growing grass seems to be the most important thing.
3. The cow has 1/2-- or maybe a tiny bit more than 1/2- of the power!
4. Most people are looking for a fix all sire! They use them in a random mating sequence and that might work for some people, though the results will likely be pretty inconsistent.  

No wonder I can't get anything sold...

to sell reality you must find customers with real knowledge,  commercial producers instead of the registered crowd...I doubt Larry with  his genius would have ever
been successful selling tru-line type stock had he not been a successful mainstreamer first...

John, saw some nice looking Charolais bulls advertised here in KY weighing a 1000 PLUS for 1250...guess I`ll go take a look...

My top of the breed $B Angus are not nearly as poor as the critics suggest...my beefmasters are the poorest doing cattle here currently, but will be interesting though to observe the crosses in due time...

another long time customer bites the dust...more money and sport in brewing beer...

when the small time commercial producer gets squeezed out of production, so will I...

I MUST FIND A REASON WHY I STILL CARE...just a dna/environment thing I suppose ?
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PostSubject: Re: Thought provoking excerpts   Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:41 pm

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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: Thought provoking excerpts   Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:28 am

MS wrote:
3. The cow has 1/2-- or maybe a tiny bit more than 1/2- of the power!
I think cow influence is more than a tad over 50% but not sure how high to say. Not sure of the definition of power. I've got some cows here that I ought to call the "Botox Line" because they make me look so good. Hard to beat a good cow. Hard to stand a bad cow. A bunch in-between.
Eddie, looking good on occasion, depending on the cow
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: Thought provoking excerpts   Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:01 pm

EddieM wrote:

I think cow influence is more than a tad over 50% but not sure how high to say.

Denis Cadzow reckoned 60% - half the genetics plus the job of raising the calf. That was the cow's contribution to the next generation.

I get nervous when people start talking about "power" - in the case of bulls it's usually an implied power to change, to upset the genetic balance of a gene pool. Would "Power cows" be the dams or daughters of these "changer" bulls ? - from the pictures of power cows they often look more like sex changers, wannabe bulls or overfed steers.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Thought provoking excerpts   Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:13 pm

it seems the top notch salesmen breed cattle to "do it all"...no admission of less than great in all things is permissible...

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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: Thought provoking excerpts   Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:13 am

Grassfarmer wrote:
EddieM wrote:

I think cow influence is more than a tad over 50% but not sure how high to say.

Denis Cadzow reckoned 60% - half the genetics plus the job of raising the calf. That was the cow's contribution to the next generation.

I get nervous when people start talking about "power" - in the case of bulls it's usually an implied power to change, to upset the genetic balance of a gene pool. Would "Power cows" be the dams or daughters of these "changer" bulls ? - from the pictures of power cows they often look more like sex changers, wannabe bulls or overfed steers.

A Power Cow is good to make a poor bull look decent. Otherwise, just weighs more when you beef her.
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PostSubject: Re: Thought provoking excerpts   Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:58 am

too funny...our county votes 78% for Donnie, and for 35 years bi-annually, til death do us part, votes 85% for the below ...

WASHINGTON, DC -- U.S. Rep. Hal Rogers (R-Ky.) released the following statement regarding President Trump's budget proposal. 
“While we have a responsibility to reduce our federal deficit, I am disappointed that many of the reductions and eliminations proposed in the President’s skinny budget are draconian, careless and counterproductive. In particular, the Appalachian Regional Commission (ARC) has a long-standing history of bipartisan support in Congress because of its proven ability to help reduce poverty rates and extend basic necessities to communities across the Appalachian region. Today, nearly everyone in the region has access to clean water and sewer, the workforce is diversifying, educational opportunities are improving and rural technology is finally advancing to 21st Century standards. But there is more work to be done in these communities, and I will continue to advocate for sufficient funding for ARC and similar programs, like the Economic Development Administration.
“We will certainly review this budget proposal, but Congress ultimately has the power of the purse. As the full budget picture emerges in the coming weeks, I am optimistic that we can work with the Administration to responsibly fund the federal government, including those agencies which serve as vital economic lifelines in rural parts of the country that are still working to overcome substantial challenges.”

with one of the highest poverty and meth use rates in the nation, we blame public schools instead of gene pools ?
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Thought provoking excerpts   Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:25 am

bottom line seems to be, its easier to criticize government than to govern, easier to criticize bulls than to breed one...remembering Larry`s frustration as he sat on the fence
as a customer sorted through a 100 bulls asking a 100 questions while looking for the perfect bull; Larry thinking "if you need a perfect bull, please go home and breed your own, because I don`t have any"...
I see Advantage is repeating itself a third time through, so it too, has run it`s course...the time comes to go home and breed what you need, or if you want to sell to the public, breed what the public wants...which from the prior political post, its easy to see the public wants it all...
I`ve removed "futuristic" from the website description, fantasized would have been more accurate, settling instead for "current", after all, the future will almost certainly look like NOW...
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PostSubject: Re: Thought provoking excerpts   Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:54 am

one more thought, I started to post that if Larry at the height of his popularity couldn`t get Tru-line type breeding accepted by an industry, why would anyone hope to now...then I remembered, by 1983, Larry was the scourge of the registered Angus business...
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Mean Spirit



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PostSubject: Re: Thought provoking excerpts   Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:14 am

Grassfarmer wrote:
EddieM wrote:

I think cow influence is more than a tad over 50% but not sure how high to say.

Denis Cadzow reckoned 60% - half the genetics plus the job of raising the calf. That was the cow's contribution to the next generation.

I get nervous when people start talking about "power" - in the case of bulls it's usually an implied power to change, to upset the genetic balance of a gene pool. Would "Power cows" be the dams or daughters of these "changer" bulls ? - from the pictures of power cows they often look more like sex changers, wannabe bulls or overfed steers.

That's probably right... my point was that the cow's genetics are only half, maybe a tad more (to account for whatever little stuff you get from mitochondrial DNA, stuff like that).  To think that a cow contributes much more than 50% of the genetics in a calf is to just be bad at math and science.

Obviously, she can have a greater effect on the performance of the calf, being how she is a component of the calf's environment.
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PostSubject: Re: Thought provoking excerpts   Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:27 am

Mean Spirit wrote:
Grassfarmer wrote:
EddieM wrote:

I think cow influence is more than a tad over 50% but not sure how high to say.

Denis Cadzow reckoned 60% - half the genetics plus the job of raising the calf. That was the cow's contribution to the next generation.

I get nervous when people start talking about "power" - in the case of bulls it's usually an implied power to change, to upset the genetic balance of a gene pool. Would "Power cows" be the dams or daughters of these "changer" bulls ? - from the pictures of power cows they often look more like sex changers, wannabe bulls or overfed steers.

That's probably right... my point was that the cow's genetics are only half, maybe a tad more (to account for whatever little stuff you get from mitochondrial DNA, stuff like that).  To think that a cow contributes much more than 50% of the genetics in a calf is to just be bad at math and science.

Obviously, she can have a greater effect on the performance of the calf, being how she is a component of the calf's environment.
I believe in gestational programming and the Great Pumpkin for higher %'s.
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Mean Spirit



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PostSubject: Re: Thought provoking excerpts   Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:51 am

EddieM wrote:
Mean Spirit wrote:
Grassfarmer wrote:
EddieM wrote:

I think cow influence is more than a tad over 50% but not sure how high to say.

Denis Cadzow reckoned 60% - half the genetics plus the job of raising the calf. That was the cow's contribution to the next generation.

I get nervous when people start talking about "power" - in the case of bulls it's usually an implied power to change, to upset the genetic balance of a gene pool. Would "Power cows" be the dams or daughters of these "changer" bulls ? - from the pictures of power cows they often look more like sex changers, wannabe bulls or overfed steers.

That's probably right... my point was that the cow's genetics are only half, maybe a tad more (to account for whatever little stuff you get from mitochondrial DNA, stuff like that).  To think that a cow contributes much more than 50% of the genetics in a calf is to just be bad at math and science.

Obviously, she can have a greater effect on the performance of the calf, being how she is a component of the calf's environment.
I believe in gestational programming and the Great Pumpkin for higher %'s.

I also believe in those things.. that's the "stuff like that".
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Thought provoking excerpts   Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:10 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Thought provoking excerpts   Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:07 am

Strange activity yesterday, called Kelly Anne's office, and they suggested no one post while the microwave is running..thank you...
We are the domain name registration service company in China. On March 20, 2017, we received an application from Baokun Ltd requested "keeneyscorner" as their internet keyword and China (CN) domain names (keeneyscorner.cn, keeneyscorner.com.cn, keeneyscorner.net.cn, keeneyscorner.org.cn). But after checking it, we find this name conflict with your company name or trademark. In order to deal with this matter better, it's necessary to send email to you and confirm whether your company is affiliated with this Chinese company or not?

...
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PostSubject: Re: Thought provoking excerpts   Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:35 am

MKeeney wrote:
Strange activity yesterday, called Kelly Anne's office, and they suggested no one post while the microwave is running..thank you...
We are the domain name registration service company in China. On March 20, 2017, we received an application from Baokun Ltd requested "keeneyscorner" as their internet keyword and China (CN) domain names (keeneyscorner.cn, keeneyscorner.com.cn, keeneyscorner.net.cn, keeneyscorner.org.cn). But after checking it, we find this name conflict with your company name or trademark. In order to deal with this matter better, it's necessary to send email to you and confirm whether your company is affiliated with this Chinese company or not?

...
Wonder if Wye has a Chinese presence? If it was April 1 I would suspect some of the fine folks over at the Advantage Recycling Center for Cattle Discussions, Sniper Comments and Polarization of Thoughts and Practices sending the email. But they are in a "circle of life" over EPDs and cow size, old bulls, new bulls, Iowa versus the world and other lofty discussions so I doubt that they had the time.
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PostSubject: Re: Thought provoking excerpts   Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:03 am

Funny stuff..if you don't believe in epds, or believe they are inaccurate, why keep creating them ?
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PostSubject: Re: Thought provoking excerpts   Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:25 pm

MKeeney wrote:
Funny stuff..if you don't believe in epds, or believe they are inaccurate, why keep creating them ?
Goes along with selection for terminal traits and expecting maternal results. Hate to sound prehistoric, but I tend to believe in a closed population or one with minimal linkage to the mainstream number gurus, that in-herd ratios and general observations win the game.

OK, a What if? question.

What if each breeders recognized the best animals to fit their environment, sorted those females and flushed to males that fit the environment or in most cases to sons? Assume that 90% of females were deemed flawed in some say so that concentration was quick and intense. Discussion? Would progress of improvement to fix the type or create a desired population be increased, or in reverse, how many less years would it take to stabilize and coast? I guess I wonder if flush programs render results the same as natural calves or does something get lost in the fast multiplication? Move to another location if necessary.
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PostSubject: Re: Thought provoking excerpts   Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:24 pm

EddieM wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
Funny stuff..if you don't believe in epds, or believe they are inaccurate, why keep creating them ?
Goes along with selection for terminal traits and expecting maternal results.  Hate to sound prehistoric, but I tend to believe in a closed population or one with minimal linkage to the mainstream number gurus, that in-herd ratios and general observations win the game.

OK, a What if? question.

What if each breeders recognized the best animals to fit their environment, sorted those females and flushed to males that fit the environment or in most cases to sons?  Assume that 90% of females were deemed flawed in some say so that concentration was quick and intense.  Discussion?  Would progress of improvement to fix the type or create a desired population be increased, or in reverse, how many less years would it take to stabilize and coast?  I guess I wonder if flush programs render results the same as natural calves or does something get lost in the fast multiplication?  Move to another location if necessary.

What epigenetic contribution/effect does the receipt cow make to the embryo calf?
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PostSubject: Re: Thought provoking excerpts   Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:20 am

Harari has asked how our initially insignificant species came to dominate the globe. In one phrase: "Flexible cooperation."
Bees cooperate in large numbers, but they are not flexible.
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PostSubject: Re: Thought provoking excerpts   Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:23 am

Humanist economics? The customer is always right. Voting is done with credit cards and cash. He asked us to imagine that Toyota or Ford hired
the smartest people in the world to design the best car. Nobel laureates. Artists. Oscar winners. They would produce the Toyota Perfect or the
Ford Perfect. They would turn out millions of them and ship them to dealer lots around the country. But if customers don't buy it, it is not the best car.
The customer is always right.
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PostSubject: Re: Thought provoking excerpts   Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:26 am

seems I remember Larry or Dennis saying their were their own best customer...I can join them in that scenario since I am my only customer,
and I`m finally beginning to like it !
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PostSubject: Re: Thought provoking excerpts   Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:43 am

Humanist ethics? He shows an image of two men kissing. "If it feels good, do it!" In the past, ethics came from the Pope or the Bible.
Humanism says only human feelings matter. What about if a man cheats on his spouse? Whose feelings matter? Good question.
But it still comes down to human feelings.
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