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 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale

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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:24 pm

and too funny...I won`t need a bull afterall, I bought a bull from etc who got his cattle from the Biltmore, they are linebred...

{sure they are Smile}
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Grassfarmer



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Location : Belmont, Manitoba, Canada

PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:09 pm

Like the guys that took Line 1 Hereford genetics to Scotland - I see from their sale report that they attribute the good trade to the "High maternal" Line 1 genetics.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:22 pm

The Biltmore is using a linebred sinclair to cross on their helter-skelter cowherd...close enough Smile
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:24 am

I see the Wye bull I briefly considered buying brought 2600, a bottom end price...inbreeding likely at work once again...anyway, still too
much money to prove nothing except to myself...
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:24 am

if you need to measure it, there`s likely a problem..

.http://redangus.org/genetics/udder-scoring/build-experience
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:46 am

I was looking at a bull catalog from one of the oldest performance herds. They claimed to be be on top of the efficiency traits as well as fertility. I can tell you that the programs that I know who bought drafts of females from there have one common problem - a high fallout from infertility. I don't know what the magic numbers say but I do know what happened in the real world.


Then, are you suggesting that a pathfinder should have a minimum HP score?
Or are you suggesting that herd longevity epds are long overdue?
Or do you just think that we don't need measures at all?

How long have we had them and had people looking at them? Are cattle more fertile? Does it matter when people change their genetics every couple of years for sure? I want cattle with good fertility not good numbers. If I believed the numbers meant anything I would look at them. I don't.

I read the following comments about Beckton...so just for the record, of 20 plus Shoshone cows that have come here, I believe 3 did not fall out of the spring calving group...is it infertility?

no, it is stupidity, you learn to move genetics distances with bulls, not females...
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:31 pm

MKeeney wrote:


no, it is stupidity, you learn to move genetics distances with bulls, not females...

I'm on the learning curve with this at the moment at our new location. Unfortunately you need girls to put with the boys.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:49 am

One has no choice but to move girls sometimes...and just give them a break, the best to Ms Akins as she moves to Spain with Sergio..
HAve you noticed any repurcussions in breed up Grassy ? We know the genetic fertility hasn't changed...just moved...
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:21 am

Yes we are lacking breed up - last summer (breeding season 2 here) close to a 1/3 of the heifers open which I wasn't expecting. Cows were better in the 10-15% range. It has been encouraging though that few of what I reckon to be my best cows, the linebred core, have succumbed. We are building a fall calving herd, switching some open cows over to it but are fattening the open heifers.
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:52 pm

Here is an interesting Sale Ad - culling their way to victory?.....or to a dispersal?

http://www.hls.ca/Calendars/LazyT2017saleflyeronline.pdf
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:23 pm

Grassfarmer wrote:
Here is an interesting Sale Ad - culling their way to victory?.....or to a dispersal?

http://www.hls.ca/Calendars/LazyT2017saleflyeronline.pdf
Jump on the bandwagon and have a dispersal every 4 or 5 years. It is a good business tactic. Get to see old friends more often for the "last time" until the next "last time" gets announced.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:59 am

unable to get a Beckton bulls I liked bought , this fellow will just have to be compared to others like him ...



How does it feel, how does it feel?
To be on your own, with one direction home
A complete unknown, like a rolling stone ?

Dido says "it`s not so bad"

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=dido+it%27s+not+so+bad&qpvt=dido+it%27s+not+so+bad&view=detail&mid=C82CEAFD71D21EF96A24C82CEAFD71D21EF96A24&FORM=VRDGAR

thx to Larry and Linda... cheers

edit...if the Wulfs, Stevensons, and Sitz`s can`t produce bulls with a break even price below $5000, they are feeding too many bureaucrats instead of consumers...
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:22 am

Kierkegaard had no illusions about man's urge to freedom. He knew how comfortable people were inside the prison of their character defenses. Like many prisoners they are comfortable in their limited and protected routines, and the idea of a parole into the wide world of chance, accident, and choice terrifies them. In the prison of one's character one can pretend and feel that he is somebody, that the world is manageable, that there is a reason for one's life, a ready justification for one's action. To live automatically and uncritically is to be assured of at least a minimum share of the programmed cultural heroics-what we might call "prison heroism": the smugness of the insiders who "know.”
― Ernest Becker, The Denial of Death

Free, free at last, after being in registered prison too many years...another yearling bull to continue to spread the preferred characteristics of his pictured dam through the maternal herd...thank you, Tru-line..



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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:05 am

I don't know her name, her sire, her dam, or her epds; but I know a productive, functional cow when I see one;and I know the consistent selection program that
created her. I see these type cows here so often now, that I refer to them as "just a cow".
....When I want more calf from her, I know my friend John Dellinger is using all the performance tools to create
the perfect terminal sire for her...in fact, she only has the first 30 days of the breeding season to conceive to one
of our maternal Angus sires to renew herself, or she will get mated to one of John`s good white bulls.
Being a tru-line breeder instead of a registered breeder is like drawing a "get-out-of-jail" monopoly card everyday,
and as an added incentive, the money is real...

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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:06 pm

If everyone lives roughly the same lies about the same thing, there is no one to call them liars. They jointly establish their own sanity and themselves normal.
Ernest Becker

re-posting quote here as well, if not for LL, I suspect I might have been living the same lies, HONESTLY...ignorance is not lying, but bliss...

the only thing I had going for me was a receptive mind to new ideas; still do, trust a little bit, but verify as much as possible...nice now to just verify to know, without needing a big payoff...
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:00 am

I notice the hottest bull in the Angus sales season looks like a Limousin...good, I already own a Limousin...
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:40 am

I noticed some little short, square headed calves on the old cows intermingled with the usual expected 977 calves...remembered we put the little poor semen quality test, inbred 6141, square headed, broken legged, short bull out there too; got several calves...seems instead of restoring his ancestry, he is breeding exactly what his regressed or just poor performance type is; though none have broke their legs yet...time will tell, won`t need dna testing to find them, rule 4 of mikes rules will suffice to minimize the herd effects...

4..select bulls average to above herd average while avoiding outliers to maintain {not increase} the phenotypic production level of the purebred

applied a year ago would have saved a few progeny that appear wasted at the present time, no big deal...inquiring minds want to know...poor inbreds can breed true...reminding me of the question I always asked Larry, and lead him to maintain a minimum phenotypic level...

is the animal regressed or just poor?
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:11 am

I`m reminded of the old vegetable juice ad as I read and see some of the types, lineages and individuals of breeding stock
that I`m familiar with promoted for maternal usage; hopefully your experiences will be different than mine...I just kinda smile
as I walk by these type females in the pasture and think,
you coulda had a 6309...
ps...the head and neck pose and characteristics so similiar to those cow heads pictured in the first Tru-line book...



John Cash`s old question "will the circle be unbroken? " has been replaced by "when will we build the wall?"

I can honestly answer , "the task has been completed"
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larkota



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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:56 am

MKeeney wrote:


rule 4 of Mikes rules
select bulls average to above herd average while avoiding outliers to maintain {not increase} the phenotypic production level of the purebred


is the animal regressed or just poor?

started as an idea but now a rule.  Mike and Larry showed me to trust myself instead of needing the tools from the registered tool box.  
what some think regressed, I think others are too big....some of my regressed cows give the most average calves.  don't have it all figured out, but not willing to throw away what I have started with some Big name, quick fix, out side bull.

I like simple, thank you Mike.
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:47 am

the 1116 sons from close bred Encore cows both sired beautifully, fit daughters...the Beauigans from the Encore -Bob are , and should do the same, but time will tell on this particular 6141 mating...look too chucky for my taste, and I`m no farao  cooperator...
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RobertMac



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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:58 am

MKeeney wrote:


is the animal regressed or just poor?

Is an animal poor because it's regressive?

Or

Is an animal regressive because it's poor?

Or

Is an animal poor because it's poor?

Cull and move on
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:02 pm

RobertMac wrote:
MKeeney wrote:


is the animal regressed or just poor?

Is an animal poor because it's regressive?

Or

Is an animal regressive because it's poor?

Or

Is an animal poor because it's poor?

Cull and move on

cheers I did that to the rest by other kindred bulls from same cow; poorest flush ever...eggs went in sorry damn purchased cows; wondering if an epigenic effect...
another problem solved, no need for et, LL vindicated once again...
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:58 pm

It's fescue time in the Bluegrass, time to separate the cows from the numbers and pedigrees. ..I suppose by now we could have dna'ed them for fescue tolerance, counted the flies, and scored the haircoat...or anything else that might make the selling program unique...instead if they get bred in 60 days to purebred Angus (first 30 days) or crossbred in the next 30, rather than scoring quote "more measures than any breeder" or some other sales gimmick, pass or fail works for me...
We could calve on the fescue in the fall and conception never be a problem, but that's too easy and winter feed more expensive...without some pressure, there is no selection...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1345553295492032&set=a.948548291859203.1073741834.100001121223406&type=3&theater
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Mon May 01, 2017 9:48 am

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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Mon May 01, 2017 9:11 pm

with a 1.48 on feeders today, a price increase effective today to $2200 on unsold yearling bulls...new multiplication factors coming July 1, of 1.6 on yearlings, 1.7 on 18 mo, and 1.8 on two year olds x current feeder future x 1000=
it`s time this little place was once again run like a business, instead of like the giverment...

so the one on the right with more hair is headed west if he survives the all the fight nights, and the one on the left just went up $300 in price...if no sale, some cows are waiting bom

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