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 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale

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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:06 am

“Diogenes, the Greek philosopher who founded the Cynical school, lived in a barrel. When Alexander the Great once visited Diogenes as he was relaxing in the sun, and asked if there were anything he might do for him, the Cynic answered the all-powerful conqueror, ‘Yes, there is something you can do for me. Please move a little to the side. You are blocking the sunlight.”
― Yuval Noah Harari, Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind

having grown up in the saddest time in American history...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhNrqc6yvTU

only to live long enough to see history repeated...but better understood, second time around...
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:02 am

preliminary proposal by a corporate farming group to lease the farm yesterday...$1000/acre/yr x 200 acres for 25 years...I think my grand kids may see a profitable future in farming yet Smile
$1000/acre accelerated 10% every 5 years...
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Mean Spirit



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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:05 am

MKeeney wrote:
preliminary proposal by a corporate farming group to lease the farm yesterday...$1000/acre/yr x 200 acres for 25 years...I think my grand kids may see a profitable future in farming yet Smile
$1000/acre accelerated 10% every 5 years...

Jeez... they must be planning to grow the good stuff...
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:52 pm

Photosynthesis is a wonderful use of the sun, photovoltaic cells even more so ! Keeping America green, clean, and great farming the sun Smile
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John R Nyquist



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PostSubject: Keeney Bull Sale 2017   Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:26 pm

I want to  state  that  all of my  52 head of  2  year old heifers  in 2016  weaned  a calf  and bred back.  All of  these heifers were 50  %  or more  Keeney or Shoshone genetics . According  to my  vet was   a  45  day breed up .   preg checked  February 2017 .Heifers  calved on  grass , only  supplement from  April 15  to  December 1 st was iodized  salt .Had   a  decent to good grass  year. Started out  dry  ,Some  showers  in May .  Finally rained  end  of  June . Tugged one calf during   calving .  Calves  not big,  weaned  end  of October . Calves   were alive ,  heifers  bred  back without  a  big  supplement  bill during and   after  calving.  Udders  seem  fine , feet seem  fine . As   a  set  they  are in decent  shape while  running  with  all  the  other cows  and  until early  March  a tough  winter .  Haven't noticed blood  around  water  tank  so I  think  their  teeth  have  changed      Overall happy with  my  young  cows and  want  5  more bulls for  2017 breeding   season .   Thank  you  JRN
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:31 pm

MKeeney wrote:
critiques are welcome...

Based on the principles below, my "purebred breeding" way has evolved to...
"the principles of the successful breeder have been exceedingly simple. He isolates
and fixes a good type by careful selection and close breeding. The difficulty lies not
so much in knowing the principles as in applying them."
"in judging the value of a pedigree, it is, of course, important to give as much weight to the
inferior animals represented as to the champions. unfortunately, it is not possible to learn much
of the characteristics of any but the latter class. The rest of the pedigree consists merely of names.
A knowledge of the methods and ideals is of great assistance in giving substance to these names."
Sewell Wright circa 1920
I no longer rely on any names {pedigrees}, just a simple methodology of
1...a closed herd, selected with a MATERNAL priority, , the names become the same while making the
most informed selection, from your own experience and knowledge of YOUR own genepool..
2..a short breeding season {30 days} for the purebreds, crossbreed the failures for sustained commercial profit...
3..select bulls from the older cows, the "stayers" versus the "sprinters"; the cows with fewer problems
4..select bulls average to above herd average while avoiding outliers to maintain {not increase} the phenotypic production level of the purebred
5..use multiple young sires to breed "the herd to the herd" ;  moderately increasing  prepotency with generational turnover. A practical benefit is growing a yearling bull into a commercially preferred 2 yr old for sale
6..knowing "The proper cow size and type will automatically adapt to the environment that is provided" something
like the picture is becoming predominant
7..whatever epd levels evolve, they will be the form {level} that follows function, and I need know no more...neither
would the buyer who believes the selection program is paramount to predictability and functionality in maternal breeding...
8..if the growth of the crossbred progeny sired by select terminal bulls is not enough, then the cow environment must be
changed to accommodate more cow
9..time, not money, will be your most limiting factor; but it always has been for a breeder...
10..if the desired phenotypic level cannot be maintained from within the herd over a long span of time, the last resort
is to outcross with the same type and begin again using the same methodology...
11...be prepared to live on commercial dollars; few will appreciate your product, but some will...developing a market for
reality flies in the face of human nature...


For to be possessed of a vigorous mind is not enough; the prime requisite is rightly to apply it. The greatest minds, as they are capable of the highest excellences, are open likewise to the greatest aberrations; and those who travel very slowly may yet make far greater progress, provided they keep always to the straight road, than those who, while they run, forsake it. Descartes
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:39 pm

For the third time in a week when asked where do we go for a bull after using yours for 10 plus years now...I suggested buy a Hereford...
and the customers said where are the good udders with your type and growing condition, for $2500 or less...and I answered I don`t know...
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Mean Spirit



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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:04 am

So isn't the question why do these folks want to use anything different? Unless they want to change something, or they actually think they are getting too inbred, why not another KA bull?
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:19 am

I seem to have more concern than they; though they initiated the discussion ...could it be I`ve seen regression and they have only read about it? but, under the new selection paradigm, I currently observe no regression, but that doesn't mean it`s not happening...
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:58 pm

two pics, click on pic and then arrow for second pic,  
and a post...
I keep thinking I`ll post a picture of another pretty cow with "no papers and poor numbers" and make another cattle post, but after reading a couple
new post or so daily, I`m so discouraged, I just skip the idea. Breeders have cattle that eat less and grow faster, milk more, live longer, and rebreed
faster than mine. I must just be testament to the Burke Tiechert concept that genetics aren`t the major influence in farm or ranch profitability. My
program has allowed me to play golf every pretty day this year, and playing golf everyday has made my cattle better. I doubt the registered world
understanding that correlation, but at least some farmers might.
From the elevated sixth tee, you can see the straight and narrow path, Lord knows how many times I`ve been in the lake right, or behind the trees left
...golf and cattle breeding, until I learned to trust MY swing and MY cattle. Of course, like epds, the average of all my shots is right smack in the middle
of the fairway. But winning golf depends on hitting the fairway more often, eliminating the misses, and so does cattle breeding. One perfect shot does not
a round make, and neither does one perfect individual make a breeding program.
Looking over the trees and across the Cumberland, you can see the farmstead where i bought my first two registered heifers in 1962 for $140/hd, followed
the next year with 10 for $125. I suppose I've always operated on the cheap, but I've never had a dispersal, filed a bankruptcy, or needed a sugar daddy
financier... ... the greatest reward has been the practice of self reliance, playing the bad breaks and the good luck just where the ball lies, like life and cattle breeding...



https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1305555352825160&set=pcb.1305556239491738&type=3&theater

seeking approval, this message is just as unpopular on facebook as anywhere else, not a problem, since I`m now well read on
The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck...
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:06 am

I cannot, in good conscience, sell anymore bulls and deprive commercial producers of this kind of profitability...

Put into actual dollars, these Beckton sale bulls, mated to 150 females over their production lifetime, should generate $9,750 more profit than the average Red Angus bull.{or ka bull) (Breed-wide the average Index is 95. $160-$95 = $65 per mating, times 150 matings = $9,750.00). Even if a person doesn’t believe in genetics and statistics, or only mates the bull to half that many females, or just wants to be conservative, half of that dollar amount is still almost $5,000 advantage per Beckton bull over other Red Angus bulls.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:02 pm

neither can I deprive myself...anyone wants to buy half interest in a top Beckton bull, call me for details...
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:53 am

so much for the Zeitmans, pharo, and johhny come latelys to the bull business...I`ll take Becktons word over those any day...esp since it mirrors my own thoughts Smile

Our bulls are managed in a manner to gain important performance data and information, and equally importantly, to develop and provide our
customers with many years of productive service. We have been testing breeding bulls over 50 years, longer than almost any other producer.
Our own breeding is based primarily on natural service, not AI, so we see how our bulls work in the pasture. We use bulls raised and managed
just this way, with our own cows and heifers, on every kind of terrain, and high in the Bighorn Mountains. For the first twenty years our bulls
were tested at home here in Wyoming. They received some grain, but otherwise grass pasture and dry hay. In 1979 we moved our test to a facility
managed by the Kugler family in Cozad, Nebraska, where the bulls got a ration including silage, corn and protein. When we brought our first bulls
home from Kuglers’ and used them with
our own cowherd, we discovered a dramatic increase in libido and breeding performance. The effect of proper nutrition was apparent, and the bulls
would maintain condition and hold up better through the entire breeding season. We have continued managing our bulls at the same facility ever
since (now managed by Craig Uden), and we continue to see the same benefits. We have since used over 500 of these bulls natural service in our
own breeding program, on dry range and in the mountains, and have never had a bull fall out of our program early due to his feeding or testing
management. Beckton Julian B571, Lancer F442, Nebula M045, Nebula P707, and all of our other great sires were fed and managed in Cozad.
Every year we see the results and success of our bull management program, and we serve many satisfied customers.
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Mean Spirit



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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:59 am

I like those cattle. I don't think most folks will make $10,000 more by buying a Beckton bull compared to whatever they are being compared to, but they seem like very solid cattle.
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:20 am

MKeeney wrote:
neither can I deprive myself...anyone wants to buy half interest in a top Beckton bull, call me for details...
Will be a nice addition to your one year use Wye bull from this Saturday if that works out. Smile
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:52 am

EddieM wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
neither can I deprive myself...anyone wants to buy half interest in a top Beckton bull, call me for details...
Will be a nice addition to your one year use Wye bull from this Saturday if that works out. Smile
Far greater potential for learning at beckton...one project at a time Smile
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:32 pm

Mean Spirit wrote:
I like those cattle.  I don't think most folks will make $10,000 more by buying a Beckton bull compared to whatever they are being compared to, but they seem like very solid cattle.

i like`m lots...so if the results were the same between a beckton and a keeney, a keeney would be worth 10,000 more than the average red angus...right? Smile
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:07 pm

I'll always be a small fry and johhny come lately compared to Beckton, a program I've always admired from afar, but I disagree with their bull rearing. Agreed starving them to make them better like farao claims to is BS but having 1200lb yearling bulls out of 1000lb cows is pushing them way too hard in my book. Most people would reckon their 2 year old heifers too big calving down at 1200lbs so why should a bull be pushed to be that weight a full year earlier? There isn't naturally a large difference between the birth weights of male and female calves, nor weaning weights so why push the bull to be 1200lb at a year old where his female herdmates are likely 600lbs? Putting too much weight on bones that are too young to support it in my opinion.
I can see it is a convenient way to rear and sell bulls - off the ranch into a feedlot and have them big enough to sell as yearlings.

Raising and selling 2 year olds like we do is less convenient (and less profitable) but I think more of our bulls are likely to last to 8 years old.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:06 am

oh Grassy, you are missing the genetic miracle ...1200 lb yearling bulls but only 1100 lb MATURE cows Smile ...btw, Pharo confesses to feeding hulls now, but it`s ok...they are "non-starch"...but fails to mention they are energy dense compared to grass...I see he and Hall have made up, birds of a feather...fleecing the willing flock, may the force be with them...
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:15 am

HerdBuilder Index As the name indicates, implementation of the HerdBuilder Index will assist producers in building profitable herds.
The HerdBuilder Index is built using the following production scenario: • Red Angus bulls mated to cows and heifers
(resulting progeny ¾ Red Angus, ¼ Simmental) • Replacement heifers retained from within the herd • All remaining progeny sold on a quality-based carcass grid.
Given that replacement heifers are retained, significant influence is placed on the obvious maternal EPDs of Stayability,
Heifer Pregnancy and Calving Ease. Additionally, with all remaining progeny sold on a quality-based carcass grid, Marbling,
Yield Grade and growth EPDs impact the HerdBuilder index.
GridMaster Index While Red Angus has traditionally been known as a superior maternal breed, those who have retained ownership
in Red Angus calves know of their potential to excel in the feedyard and ultimately hang a premium carcass

http://assets.redangus.org/media/Documents/Promos/LARRY%20N14%20STORY%20Nov.pdf
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:42 pm

We like our girls a little on the fleshy side ...this one weighing about 1300 something after calving...I see no overall efficiency in smaller if the production model is the industry preferred 1350 lb finish weights ...her type, not her size, determines her ability to efficiently convert lower quality forages into calf weight..
Ps...the sire was a top selling bull at $2500, I guess that ruins any registered promotional value she or he has, but I have a few commercial customers that approve of bulls costing LESS...Amid the turmoil of new and improved, we produce this kind so regularly, the supply is greater than the demand, pertinent to making the best cows more often is not trying to make them be best at everything else...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1309829345731094&set=a.948548291859203.1073741834.100001121223406&type=3&theater

listened to most of the Wye sale; imagined the stories being retold pre-sale from the usual experts {or is suspects the correct word? Cool } and reading the facebook comments before and after cracks me up ...I sure miss calling the up the man and laughing about it together...

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened.
But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. Friedrich Nietzsche



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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:50 am

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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:50 pm

MKeeney wrote:

Got 9 in after a good shower, the thought came to me that bragging about ww and yw performance ratios in closed herds with the growth level in the bottom 1% of a breed would be like bragging how far you had hit the golf ball with your putter...

noticed too a truer line breeder said footnotes on his bulls would be redundant, I agree...and so are the epd`s , only pedigrees would have meaning...not to denote characteristics, but to determine potential prepotency versus the outcrosses...
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:13 am

Laura of Laura's lean now a repeat customer to be ...how refreshing to hear. ..a yearling is fine, buying him to fill the need for a good two year old next year...he will breed cows, so some birth wt is fine...I don't need registration papers, ...we'll bring the trailer when we come....
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PostSubject: Re: 2017 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:24 pm

and too funny...I won`t need a bull afterall, I bought a bull from etc who got his cattle from the Biltmore, they are linebred...

{sure they are Smile}
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