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 Paradigm Shift

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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Paradigm Shift   Wed May 18, 2016 6:05 am

top 1% for docility until two yrs old Smile wonder why the jersey cow so gentle and the bulls so mean? testosterone and superior fertility?
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pukerimu



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Location : Norsewood, New Zealand

PostSubject: Re: Paradigm Shift   Wed May 18, 2016 10:26 pm

Don't know why Jerseys are aggressive but I do know that they put more people into hospital or off work than any other breed of bull in NZ - and they are a probably a minority - many more Friesian bulls reared for bull beef. I guess the cows are so gorgeous and apparently docile that unless you know how nasty the bulls can be it is easy to be lulled into false sense of security.
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Bouw



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PostSubject: Re: Paradigm Shift   Sat May 21, 2016 2:56 pm

Thank you all for the preceding discussion.  Has caused much reflection and provided lots of food for thought.  As you would see from the story on my website (www.ediecreekangus.com), I too have been on a journey learning to breed cattle based on a minimum-input, grass-finishing philosophy.  The more I learn, the more I learn I don't know.  

Been "stalking" (aka learning from) this forum for a long while (3-4 yrs), and really appreciate the wisdom shared by each of you.  My eye for cattle needs some re-adjusting to learn what the fertile type truly is, I've thought til now that it meant heavily muscled, belly-dragger types, but where in nature do you see that besides hippopotamus'..?
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: Paradigm Shift   Sat May 21, 2016 9:25 pm

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Bouw



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PostSubject: Re: Paradigm Shift   Sat May 21, 2016 9:37 pm

Thanks, Grassfarmer, I still have much to learn evidently!  It may be even more evident if you were to read through our website Embarassed
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pukerimu



Posts : 246
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Location : Norsewood, New Zealand

PostSubject: Re: Paradigm Shift   Sat May 21, 2016 10:51 pm

Welcome Bouw and thanks for posting website - enjoyed reading - very similar ideologies from another grass factory - keep up the good work but most importantly always retain objectivity - most valuable tool of a seed stock breeder and one that is sadly often lacking. Cheers
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C.S.Cunningham



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Join date : 2016-04-20

PostSubject: Re: Paradigm Shift   Tue May 24, 2016 2:28 pm

Bouw wrote:
Thank you all for the preceding discussion.  Has caused much reflection and provided lots of food for thought.  As you would see from the story on my website (www.ediecreekangus.com), I too have been on a journey learning to breed cattle based on a minimum-input, grass-finishing philosophy.  The more I learn, the more I learn I don't know.  

Been "stalking" (aka learning from) this forum for a long while (3-4 yrs), and really appreciate the wisdom shared by each of you.  My eye for cattle needs some re-adjusting to learn what the fertile type truly is, I've thought til now that it meant heavily muscled, belly-dragger types, but where in nature do you see that besides hippopotamus'..?
lol!

Thanks for sharing your website!
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Paradigm Shift   Tue May 24, 2016 8:53 pm

Bouw wrote:
Thank you all for the preceding discussion.  Has caused much reflection and provided lots of food for thought.  As you would see from the story on my website (www.ediecreekangus.com), I too have been on a journey learning to breed cattle based on a minimum-input, grass-finishing philosophy.  The more I learn, the more I learn I don't know.  

Been "stalking" (aka learning from) this forum for a long while (3-4 yrs), and really appreciate the wisdom shared by each of you.  My eye for cattle needs some re-adjusting to learn what the fertile type truly is, I've thought til now that it meant heavily muscled, belly-dragger types, but where in nature do you see that besides hippopotamus'..?

It was called to my attention about a 2 yr old bull that was lighter assed {and he is}...I like his dam...I expect him to repeat her...



I don`t think she would suit Megan`s program; not much beef from her until you breed her to  Limmy...though the Angus at side looks fine to me, some of the thickness is fat...reports are really good on Pete daughters; no thickness or no grow in Pete...SOOO...truly low maintenance cattle?
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Paradigm Shift   Tue May 24, 2016 9:58 pm

should the biggest calves be weaned in purebred or commercial herds?

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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: Paradigm Shift   Wed May 25, 2016 8:27 am

I have lost the love of the looks of a boxy cow. I never found the elusive female fertility wrapped in all of those packages. There were some good individuals and a few great individuals but never a lot of guaranteed results. But I have to admit that they made good looking bulls. It is somewhat relaxing when the looks and the maturity pattern of the bull is no longer a make or break issue to measure success.
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C.S.Cunningham



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PostSubject: Re: Paradigm Shift   Wed May 25, 2016 10:34 am

MKeeney wrote:
should the biggest calves be weaned in purebred or commercial herds?


Biggest relative to the size of the dam or biggest on the scales?

I do love that cow!


Last edited by C.S.Cunningham on Wed May 25, 2016 2:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mean Spirit



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PostSubject: Re: Paradigm Shift   Wed May 25, 2016 1:35 pm

MKeeney wrote:
should the biggest calves be weaned in purebred or commercial herds?


Obviously, the guy selling pounds ought to be making the pounds.
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rross



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PostSubject: Re: Paradigm Shift   Wed May 25, 2016 4:43 pm

C.S.Cunningham wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
should the biggest calves be weaned in purebred or commercial herds?



I do love that cow!


I agree that she looks like a nice type. BUUUT, that's a big cow for your criteria, weighing 1300#'s+ and at least a frame 4 to 4+............not really one of your Itty-Bitty frame 3 1050#er's.

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C.S.Cunningham



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PostSubject: Re: Paradigm Shift   Wed May 25, 2016 4:49 pm

rross wrote:
C.S.Cunningham wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
should the biggest calves be weaned in purebred or commercial herds?



I do love that cow!


I agree that she looks like a nice type. BUUUT, that's a big cow for your criteria, weighing 1300#'s+ and at least a frame 4 to 4+............not really one of your Itty-Bitty frame 3 1050#er's.


You will note that I have previously said that I would take a frame score 5 cow of good type over a frame score 3 or 4 cow of mediocre type!  Smile

As a matter of fact, one of my favorite cows is at least a frame score 5 if not 5.5! I think she's a bit large, but she has a lot of depth, she's wedged shaped, has a good bag, etc. Granted, I do call her Big Red, but I don't discount what she has to offer...because she does have type.
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pukerimu



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PostSubject: Re: Paradigm Shift   Thu May 26, 2016 12:17 am

MKeeney wrote:

I don`t think she would suit Megan`s program; not much beef from her until you breed her to  Limmy...though the Angus at side looks fine to me, some of the thickness is fat...reports are really  good on Pete daughters; no thickness or no grow in Pete...SOOO...truly low maintenance cattle?

I don't know about that Mike - I like a lot about that cow - conformation, udder, obviously calm disposition and nice head - I suspect that she has only just gone onto that grass - that is about the condition that we like our cows to be in at calving - we expect them to pack it on while growing their calf (without blowing their udder). We want them in optimum condition to take the bull and then as soon as the bulls are taken away they have been pushed up onto the hills where they are expected to eat poor quality feed, grow their calf out to max potential and maintain their pregnancy. When the calves are weaned they are put on even poorer quality tucker or squeezed up as we try to get the lambs finished before the winter grass stop starts - of course this is going to change somewhat at the new place ................. it will be a work in progress and learning curve for the first season - the vendor of the new place has stuck to the agreement and there will be tons of feed on one side of the road for the bull calves - cows might be doing it a bit tough for the worst winter months but we are expecting the grass to start growing down there in about September/October, rather than November before it really gets going up here.
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