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 2016 Keeney Angus Bull Sale

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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2016 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:12 am

I have coined one new phrase...sale manipulator is so much more precise than sale manager...how long can the cattle industry afford
the registered industry? I do a quick scan of breeders "shared post"...what a bunch of hypocrites; criticizing the Washington government while
employing the same political principles of the bureaucracy in their own affairs
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: 2016 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:09 am

MKeeney wrote:
He was not a fluke...he was intermediate of diverse parents,exactly what you would expect...Encores sire was once a top growth bull
Thanks.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2016 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Sat Mar 19, 2016 1:32 pm

report from the field
JRN sells his maternal by-product ,10 month old steer calves at Belle Fourche this week... cut of 90 weigh 780 across the real scale, bring a market top for the weight of 164/cwt; John described condition as shiny, not fat, a grow lot after raising and weaning on grass ....sires likely bottom 1% of the breed for yw epd ; some second generation Keeney calves now ...the good or bad of the weight is not my point here, it is what it is; this is my performance report on the population this spring.... if you want more weight to sell, manage or improve grass and run more of the same kind of cows/per pasture unit ...IF you bigger calves, buy bigger bulls with more growth epd and accept the associated extra cost...John`s happy and part of that happiness is the lump of money he never spent to obtain these results that satisfy him...
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2016 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:53 am

we don`t always use terminal bulls on our cows, but when we do, we make sure someone eats all the heifers ...f1 limy steer sired by Wulf Cattle bulls...just verifying what we knew already; crossing types works...

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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2016 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:53 pm

crossbreeding works, epd`s, not so well...another no lik`em post on facebook where the registered unwritten law prevails...thy shall not diminish your neighbors bull
or he will diminish yours...or is that politics 2016?  Rolling Eyes

Meets the Program the caption said, as if everyone should, and does know, what that means in Ky and other tobacco states
where for ten years giverment money has been available to "cost-share" the purchase of "superior genetics" "to improve the KY
cattle industry" if bulls meet certain epd standards and a BSE. Meets the Program has replaced AI bred as the gold standard of
superior quality. Incentives work; even when people don`t. I think the picture is self-explanatory why government agencies,
universities, and farm organizations have no business picking winners and losers in cattle breeding and production, and very
few other entities as well; on second thought, it may not be self-explanatory to those who don`t raise cattle for commercial
profit. From the beginning , this action was more about empowering bureaucracies than farmers, and it has created a larger
state of dependency than free-market profitability as welfare always does; agriculture and farmers are no different than the bears.

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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2016 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:07 am

cows back off terminated lease pasture...
We don`t breed all of our cows to terminal bulls, but those we do, we make sure the heifers end up on the plate instead of in our pasture {and what nice pasture; Sept calf weighing 600; no creep, no hay to this herd}...typical of the calves sired by our "average" Wulf Cattle Limousin bulls selected by Casey Fanta


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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2016 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:12 pm

face book post...nothing I post has gone viral yet in the registered world Smile hard to counter Tom Burke and $500,000 Angus bull news Smile

Caught a pic of no 24 out the truck window yesterday; her genes are headed to NE Montana via her son along with 10 more cows like her based on the same principle; someone asked her pedigree? I don`t know; just a cow; registration number? Stopped registering; let the registered breeders breed they own cows; we sell to commercial producers; performance and epds? what you see is what you get more often here...not all are this "pretty"; most are as functional...
.... making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple; awesomely simple...well, that`s us...and what`s simple to do can`t be expensive, I suppose that`s why few do what we do...does a gold watch keep more accurate time?

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Mean Spirit



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PostSubject: Re: 2016 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:04 am

I heard that you can either have quality animals or inexpensive animals. Not both. I told the guy I try to believe that when I'm selling, but when I'm buying, I'd prefer to think otherwise.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2016 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:10 pm

dittos John...
Rod, you shorted me 347,500 on "little Anchor"...don`t send him to town; he might be worth $500,000 if the trend continues Smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-RiH_KZoQY
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2016 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:14 pm

MKeeney wrote:
dittos John...
Rod, you shorted me 347,500 on "little Anchor"...don`t send him to town; he might be worth $500,000 if the trend continues Smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-RiH_KZoQY

half as big as Cowboy at a year is good enugh for me Smile

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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2016 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:50 am

granddaughter-grandmother...the close bred male in between was the transition agent...thx for producing him Briann...


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larkota



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PostSubject: Re: 2016 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:46 am

MKeeney wrote:
granddaughter-grandmother...the close bred male in between was the transition agent...thx for producing him Briann...



I am indebted to you. You had all the parts and allowed me the chance to learn what could be.

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.
Leonardo da Vinci


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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2016 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:39 pm



and they  should have added...for he is bound to repeat history...
this might seem arrogant to some in regard to tru-line...that thinking would be the sum of those who never applied themselves to learn the principles
as they were developed over time; let alone applied those learned principles to cattle breeding...

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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2016 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:24 am

It was a good day yesterday...a repeat customer with 30 cows, and a new one, both prefer price and predictabilty over papers...and a commercial visitor who holds promise for the future...the future must include new seedstock suppliers. ..difficult task, more prefer to just use what they create commercially
We are working from the cow up, the biggies may take control from the top down. ..who knows? One thing for sure you can't change the big money game by playing the same little money games...


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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2016 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:27 am

Briann and I discussed how being so admittedly and consistently negative about the registered business, despising it as Larry did, runs the easy accusation
of appearing jealous of the bigger money some make...that`s hardly true, it is a certain relief of presumptive responsibility to sell for less for me. I thought shame was
maybe too strong a word, and then re-reading Reflections I ran across this...

My identification of real people is to authenticate real factual incidents with whom I have had a first hand relationship with to demonstrate what Mike
said about being influenced by or being products of our environment. I am trying to explain the non-monetary rewards of values, mutual cooperation,
respect, character, integrity and basic honesty as opposed to the despicableness I have for all that goes on in this registered business, the lack of
self-responsibility, the passing of blame when things go wrong, when the first pursuit is that of the almighty dollar....
.I am extremely ashamed that I have been there and done all that for 15 years until about 30 years ago.

not much different than the non-papered border collie, it`s just a shame people willingly waste their money on pyramid papered seedstock when
there are better ways, but such is human nature...I don`t think my cattle are worth any more than I ask , and the last time I
used a couple of theirs, they weren`t either. With a $1000 /hd premium over market weight price, I just need to sell a 100 a year as Larry did 200 to be a very wealthy man...

so Jorgenson averages 8200; trying to keep up with the gars`s and Connealy`s...hell of a task...is there anyone but us exploring ways to deliver seedstock
cheaper to commercial breeders? should that even be a goal? how does the competition do it, not Jorgensen's mind you,... PIC?

http://www.birchwoodgenetics.com/products/pic-terminal
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2016 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Sat Apr 23, 2016 6:05 pm

the most liberating aspect of cattle breeding Larry gave me ...well, no, not just me, everyone...Smile

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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: 2016 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Sat Apr 23, 2016 11:11 pm

Thanks for posting this Mike, and "X" Strain under Reflections. I find there is such treasure contained in the first couple of pages of "X" Strain it should be a must read for all cattle breeders. Now with the internet exposure it has a chance of reaching a wider audience.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2016 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Sun Apr 24, 2016 8:47 am

Grassfarmer wrote:
Thanks for posting this Mike, and "X" Strain under Reflections. I find there is such treasure contained in the first couple of pages of "X" Strain it should be a must read for all cattle breeders. Now with the internet exposure it has a chance of reaching a wider audience.

thx, it was worth the effort just to learn how to increase the size of my page/print Smile some new pages today, one more sitting should complete the task...I see a couple things I wish weren`t in there; I should have spoken sooner; the most onerous the tallgrass ultrasound "data" given closer study of their results...
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2016 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Sun Apr 24, 2016 12:29 pm

x-strain is now posted in it`s entirety; to the disagreement of some......it will be read by a few; dismissed by 95%; abused by 3%; criticized by 2%, and perhaps utilized by 1%...the critics are insignificant , the abusers a nuisance, and the utilizers the reward for the effort..
I am reminded of this quote; a Franklin exaggeration  of Blackstone...
“that it is better one hundred guilty Persons should escape than that one innocent Person should suffer.”
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df



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PostSubject: Re: 2016 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Sun Apr 24, 2016 8:47 pm

 so Jorgenson averages 8200; trying to keep up with the gars`s and Connealy`s...hell of a task...is there anyone but us exploring ways to deliver seedstock
cheaper to commercial breeders? should that even be a goal? how does the competition do it, not Jorgensen's mind you,... PIC?

*************

Mike,

First, I don't think Jorgensen is trying to keep up with GAR or Connealy. Yes, they might use one bull that they did not raise but lately they have used only their own bulls, for the most part. And they certainly don't select for the highest growth, extreme marbling, highest $B. In fact, their cattle tend to be some of the lower marbling in the breed. They certainly don't have the highest growth or calving ease. I think they are basically selecting bulls that work for them and their customers and not all that concerned about EPDs.

Did they have a good sale average? Sure, but if you look closely, I don't think any of the bulls were sold to well-known producers.

Many of the top bulls are purchased by cooperators, who will use the bulls on their cowherd, then sell the weaned calves to Jorgensen. So the bull sale in the spring is actually where many cooperators come to buy their bulls in a competitive manner. They probably don't sell a lot of semen on these bulls so their value is largely determined by what they can produce in each cooperators herd.

Some of the bulls are used in multiple-sire pastures, while some are not. They supply BW and birthdates to Jorgensen, as well as any pedigree data. I assume they also indicate the contemporary group for each bull.

Jorgensen will feed the bulls, and determine their value. I am not aware of how they set this value. The commercial producers often have Jorgensen select the bulls for them, as it is easy to have data overload.

Then the bulls are leased to large commercial producers for 1/3 of their value. Jorgensen will pick up the bulls at the end of the breeding season, recondition them and lease them a second year. After leasing them for two years, they can be sold to large producers in Florida. The sales price is less than the value of the bull as a yearling because they got income from these bulls by leasing them.

So yes, the sale average was high, and as in any auction some bulls probably were overpriced while others were underpriced. I am confidant they don't sell their bulls even near that price. The vast majority (leased and later sold) are simply Angus bulls. They are probably priced reasonable for their customers.

I think it is interesting Jorgensen publishes the inbreeding coefficient. Not sure if there is any goal in this regard.

You will also notice the pyramid showing the influence of Jorgensen genetics to the commercial industry. They market a lot of bulls!!
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2016 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:15 pm

thx df, I didn`t mean genetically, but sales average...it is what producers are willing to pay; maybe Jorgenson`s are trying to keep prices lower; I may be the one removed from reality; I`ve just gotten along fine spending less...my past experience indicates the biggest difference between an $8000 bull and a $3000 bull is $5000 I hope they keep it high, then they are not my competition...who in TN buys bulls from them? Tn Tech? started to call you for assistance the other day, my wife stranded with a flat tire in Cookeville Smile was going to pay you in green fees cheers
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2016 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:21 pm

DF, why don`t you get up here and take over these experiments for me...Produce some data for you and money for me Very Happy
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df



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PostSubject: Re: 2016 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:27 pm

MKeeney wrote:
thx df, I didn`t mean genetically, but sales average...it is what producers are willing to pay; maybe Jorgenson`s are trying to keep prices lower; I may be the one removed from reality; I`ve just gotten along fine spending less...my past experience indicates the biggest difference between an $8000 bull and a $3000 bull is $5000 I hope they keep it high, then they are not my competition...who in TN  buys bulls from them? Tn Tech? started to call you for assistance the other day, my wife stranded with a flat tire in Cookeville Smile was going to pay you in green fees cheers

Yes, they are trying to keep prices down for the commercial bulls to the commercial producers. I would not think they worry about the registered bulls. They have a sale so their cooperators can compete for the top bulls. I suspect the top third of the bulls goes to cooperators while 2/3 of the sale offering goes to commercial producers. The commercial producers are probably paying $5000-$8000, but I don't know that. Any bulls that bring much more than $8000 are probably going to the cooperators.

When you think about it, except for the lease, Jorgensen is probably as close to the PIC model as about any Angus breeder.

There is an ABS rep in TN that uses Jorgensen bulls via semen but I don't know if they have purchased any to ship from SD to TN. They have also used Sinclair (EXT) genetics. Not sure what else they have used. McBee uses some Jorgensen genetics.

We purchased semen on the Ideal 9524 bull and used some but not all of the semen.

Played golf last Thursday. Played poorly for the first 10 holes. Got rained on, then played even worse. Crying or Very sad

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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2016 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:32 pm

what course? when can we look at your cows in the morning and golf in the pm?
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df



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PostSubject: Re: 2016 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:44 pm

MKeeney wrote:
what course? when can we look at your cows in the morning and golf in the pm?

I played at the Hermitage near Nashville for a Poultry Association Fundraiser.

The Cookeville Golf Course was given to Tech, so we have that going for us!

There is another course near Tech that I have been to a few times with a friend. After finals week, the calendar opens up a bit!!!
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