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  Update from Howard ranch on our true line experience

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Bob H



Posts : 372
Join date : 2011-02-17
Location : SW Idaho

PostSubject: Re: Update from Howard ranch on our true line experience   Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:51 pm

These are some cattle that we will harvest in late March thru May. The blue and yellow tagged cattle are half Akaushi and out of purchased cows and will be two years old this spring. They were the little end of the 2014 calf crop. The cattle will weigh around 950 today. The Pink tagged cattle mixed in are straight Shoshone tru-line open heifers and late steers. When in the meat bossiness you need to have a year around supply so we stage cattle for every two weeks these cattle will explode on some rye pasture we have saved to go back on in Feb. They are receiving Long hay right now but will start on a beet pulp, salt and mineral mix shortly.

We have had some winter so things look a little bleak but have had a lot of moisture and spring will come to the desert around the middle of Feb.

We have another set of cattle weighing around 1050 to 1100 lbs in a large GAP 4 certified area that are receiving Hay, Sudan grass silage, Molasses and beet pulp. They are what will sort out of until the end of March or April 1. Will be down that way sometime this week and send some photos. Bob H
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Update from Howard ranch on our true line experience   Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:22 am

meat business? who is your buyer Bob...freezer beef wholes/halves etc, wholesaler, retail cuts direct?
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Bob H



Posts : 372
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PostSubject: Re: Update from Howard ranch on our true line experience   Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:05 pm

Mike as of right now we are furnishing 6 Whole Foods stores, one In Boise, 5 in Utah with their Grass fed product. There are two more stores in Boise called the Boise Coop. The fellow that we partner with takes care of the locker beef part. When July rolls around we are visiting  with some more Store groups as we will have a large group of Akaushi cross calves from that point on and think it will be attractive to them to have this product year around.
As of now we sell whole carcasses to these stores. The retail pieces business is far to complex with no more than we are doing to be profitable.
The green shopper is who we are targeting.
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Grassfarmer



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Location : Belmont, Manitoba, Canada

PostSubject: Re: Update from Howard ranch on our true line experience   Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:20 am

Bob, far be it for me to give you advice as you've obviously forgotten more about cattle than i'll ever know but I think there is a big hole in your meat program. With the varying feeds they are on through the finishing period from mountain pasture to rye to Sudangrass silage the end product is likely to have a different taste/flavor and texture at different times of year. This difference could be greater than the difference between the breeds you are using plus you are not delivering the health benefits of grass-fed that customers are looking for unless you are using fresh green growing forage. That to me is not the way to build a lasting brand - beef customers like consistency in product just like we do with our consistency of genetics. That's why I never did and never would go to supplying grass-fed beef year around - you compromise the product compared to what it could be at the highest quality production period of the year.
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Bob H



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Join date : 2011-02-17
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PostSubject: Re: Update from Howard ranch on our true line experience   Wed Dec 30, 2015 7:21 pm

Grassy we are new to the Grass-fed business and are not trying to  lecture our customer on the health benefits of Grass-fed. The Akaushi x cattle already have research that it is heart healthy. What we are doing is filing a niche market that is local, non grain fed, rancher raised ,controlled, non artificial hormone, never ever antibiotic and on pasture as long as it exist in our area which is about 9 months. We will feed them when necessary to maintain eating quality and gain.

As far as consistency we stay in close communication with our store groups and have not had any complaints so far.

  A year around product may be a challenge but if we are successful it will make us sustainable in the fresh meat business.

Thank you for your comments will keep you updated as we go.
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Bob H



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PostSubject: Re: Update from Howard ranch on our true line experience   Wed Dec 30, 2015 8:15 pm

Grassy what would you suggest that a ranch should do if you do not have a year around supply.
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: Update from Howard ranch on our true line experience   Thu Dec 31, 2015 9:00 am

Seasonal slaughter and freezer space Bob. One outfit up here were killing around 300 head a year all seasonally with the meat held in commercial freezer space (rented I think) for sale throughout the year via direct internet sales.
Our model was direct to customers too by the half or whole beef so the customer was providing the freezer space. We had no problem finding enough customers willing to buy a year's supply in the fall.
Upon reflection you are maybe targeting a different product to a different clientele. Ours was grass-fed first and foremost and I don't believe there was any conserved forage or grain type product that would maintain the eating quality we had in the absence of top quality fattening pasture. On your scale you likely don't have the time to micro-manage the fattening pastures the way I did though.
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RobertMac



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PostSubject: Re: Update from Howard ranch on our true line experience   Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:29 am

The health benefit that is directly linked to green, growing forage is CLA, conjugated linoleic acid. It's been proven to kill cancer cells in lab test. If I remember right, it's derived from chloroplast.

I agree with GF that I think meat quality and taste changes with feed and seasons.

True grassfed is year round green, growing forage, but I won't hold your climates against y'all. Smile
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Bob H



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PostSubject: Re: Update from Howard ranch on our true line experience   Fri Jan 01, 2016 6:36 am

What we are trying to do is keep the costs down buy just slaughtering what is sold on a hot carcass weight payable net 7 days. This way it does not tie up much labor or time without shrink. We are harvesting around 17 every 2 weeks now.

The Akaushi has the same claim about CLA's on their grain fed product and the good cholesterol is greater than the bad. So in our mind this product should have a greater health benefits than a straight grass fed or a grain fed.

We have not done any research yet as have not produce enough product to fill current demand.
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: Update from Howard ranch on our true line experience   Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:31 am

That sounds like some marketing BS by the Akaushi breeders Bob. I'd like to see their science backing the claims. What I understand about CLA is that it is grass produced, and largely fresh growing grass produced. There is research showing how dramatically CLA levels fall off in beef and in milk after a few days off full pasture onto a conserved feed (hay, silage or grain) ration.

not the best but there are tables and info in this article around page 53.

http://www.ucsusa.org/sites/default/files/legacy/assets/documents/food_and_agriculture/greener-pastures.pdf
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RobertMac



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PostSubject: Re: Update from Howard ranch on our true line experience   Fri Jan 01, 2016 10:31 am

I went to Heartbrandbeef and read their "claims". What gave them away as bogus was that their links to back their claims didn't go anywhere.

If you want credible and documented info, go to

Eatwild.com

Westonaprice.org

Search for... Dr. Tilak Dhiman, Utah State

I had a conversation with Dr. Dhiman at the first American Grassfed Association conference in Alabama about 2001. He studied the butterfat of dairy cows to track the changes in the amount CLA in the fat. He said it took 4-6 weeks on growing grass to reach maximum levels and 4 days off grass to lose it all. He said the ideal would be products from animals raised 100% on growing forage.

Bob, not meaning to be critical of what you are doing, but the most important thing is you are raising clean beef. You don't want to let bogus claims tarnish your relationships with your customers.

Diet information is along the lines of man-caused climate change...mostly fictional.
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Kent Powell



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Location : SW Kansas

PostSubject: Re: Update from Howard ranch on our true line experience   Fri Jan 01, 2016 12:22 pm

Bob,

I think it is pretty inspiring to read about and see what you are doing. Thank You for sharing. To me, that is what the Cattle business is all about . This is how I pictured Tru-Line coming to fruition. Actual Specialization utilizing breed complementarity. I look forward to the opportunity to try your product should I ever be in an area where it is offered.

I sure hope the criticisms doesn't stifle the conversation.

I am so turned off by the whole grass fed thing, especially the Stockman Grassfarmer mantra. Short, fat cattle marketed as counterfit "intensely linebred" stock often from foreign producers who detest linebreeding, who cannot even fit into the huge window of commodity acceptability without huge discounts on top of their lacking production when you disperse. It is just more smoke and mirror marketing BS imitating that which they claim to oppose.

Same to the Mainstream who claim superiority based on progressive cumulative Numerated superiority claiming the defiance of genetic rules and truth due to the invisible embrace of deviation even though inconsistency has long been the major problem, while they still jump from fad to fad. Claiming Science, while statistics show no real net commercial gains.

I would like to try the beef from Grassy, Bob, or Robert anytime. It is the people that matter. The right people will have the right cattle produced the right way and it doesn't have to be the same. It would be refreshing to have some variety in beef. Sometimes you want a Granny Smith, sometimes you want a Pink Lady. Not long ago you could have any kind of Apple you want as long as it was Red Delicious. Turns out they weren't very Delicious after all.

I have never had anything better than a Dry Aged, two year old Powell Ranch Bull off of green grass. We have lived on them for years.

Both sides share the same problem of using force to push their will. I respect Salatin more than anyone else on either side due to his views on freedom.


The debate doesn't start until 41:53.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv_oydmwVls#t=2329
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Bob H



Posts : 372
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Location : SW Idaho

PostSubject: Re: Update from Howard ranch on our true line experience   Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:00 pm

I was wrong about CLA's if you go to the Akaushi site it talks about the health benefits. I am not a scientist by no means. What I am is a rancher who has a grasp on what happens with lines of cattle. I will also stumble along in marketing our product as long as it is profitable for Howard ranches. If it this adventure shows any signs of weakness all that we have to do is feed them grain for 100 days and top any grid in the country. This seems like it may have a lot of good in it. We are absolutely not purist about anything except Christ and God. The rest has always been shifting paradigms. The information that Larry shared with us is just this, you just have to shift your paradigms.

Kent would like to get some product for you to taste. Idaho is always welcome to any visitors. Bob H
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Bob H



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PostSubject: Re: Update from Howard ranch on our true line experience   Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:07 pm

RobertMack the true thought that I have about all of this health claim and that is if you eat what God created without additives you will have as long of life as he intended. What I see has happened to the population is the have gotten away from God and believe more in the Creation than the Creator thus thinking that they can lengthen their lives. My true thoughts are good luck with this as I have never been to a funeral of a person over 98 and that is a long way from eternity. Bob H
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Update from Howard ranch on our true line experience   Sat Jan 02, 2016 8:04 am

Grassy`s is the only grassfed I`ve sampled or eaten that measured up to my taste...the greatest health benefit I`ve gotten from the limited sampling of the rest was the exercise I got from chewing it...Evil or Very Mad
most memorable was the grassfed steak I ate with Coffelt...very little conversation in that hour unless you talked with food in your mouth Smile
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Update from Howard ranch on our true line experience   Sat Jan 02, 2016 8:25 am

come down Bob; we`ll go to the exhibit and see if that new hip let`s you coil up into the Zen posture Very Happy

http://www.veronews.com/32963_features/arts/sculpture-adds-new-dimension-to-sean-sexton-s-oeuvre/article_a71b92f2-a986-11e5-aba1-431e92dc351a.html
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RobertMac



Posts : 377
Join date : 2010-09-28
Location : Mississippi, USA

PostSubject: Re: Update from Howard ranch on our true line experience   Sat Jan 02, 2016 10:04 am

Bob H wrote:
RobertMack the true thought that I have about all of this health claim and that is if you eat what God created without additives you will have as long of life as he intended. What I see has happened to the population is the have gotten away from God and believe more in the Creation than the Creator thus thinking that they can lengthen their lives. My true thoughts are good luck with this as I have never been to a funeral of a person over 98 and that is a long way from eternity. Bob H

Bob, you are 100% correct...eat food the way God made it. That's my diet.

It makes no difference eating grainfed or grassfed if the rest of the diet is full of processed food, grain byproducts, and sugars. Much is made of the omega-6 to omega-3 ratio in beef.

Grassfed....1-2 to 1
Grainfed....4-6 to 1
The typical diet....about 40 to 1

Getting junk food out of the diet trumps everything else.

As for marketing, the most powerful tool we have is that we can tell our customers that the meat they are buying comes from an animal that has been in our care and control from birth to slaughter. This will get you customers and keep those customers. And it's something only producers can do.

Kent, agree with you about Joel...and everything else.
Joel has been fighting long and hard for the freedom to market directly to consumers.
Big business/government collusion is working against us.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Update from Howard ranch on our true line experience   Sat Jan 02, 2016 10:42 am

I assume you guys don`t eat pork?
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Bob H



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PostSubject: Re: Update from Howard ranch on our true line experience   Sat Jan 02, 2016 5:59 pm

Yes Mike I do eat pork from the neighbor but not very often and lamb from another.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Update from Howard ranch on our true line experience   Sat Jan 02, 2016 6:13 pm

Thank science  Bob Very Happy
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RobertMac



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PostSubject: Re: Update from Howard ranch on our true line experience   Sat Jan 02, 2016 6:47 pm

I eat all meat. Deer sausage and shrimp in jambalaya tonight.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Update from Howard ranch on our true line experience   Sat Jan 02, 2016 7:43 pm

What kind of hoof does a jambalaya have Robert? pig
Just razzing you guys for a little interlude in the discussion jocolor
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MVCatt



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PostSubject: Re: Update from Howard ranch on our true line experience   Sat Jan 02, 2016 8:34 pm







I'm with MK I love these type of bulls. I'm sure Bob's F1's are very productive and it seems like they give him the end product he desires. A question for some on here who have had more late nighters with Larry than I. Did he visualize a F1 cow in a Truline system? Or did he believe you could get it done with a line cross within ones own herd?

"The absolutely only reason the industry thinks a crossbred beef cow is better is that we don't know how to create a more profitable purebred cow that could be absolutely more efficient than any non-renewable crossbred cow ever could hope to be, in fact we don't even know how to reduce the problems of any cow, but we're very good at increasing them."  

Larry Leonhardt
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Bob H



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PostSubject: Re: Update from Howard ranch on our true line experience   Sun Jan 03, 2016 9:08 am

All most all of my conversations with Larry about genetics would end up talking about plant breeders. In plant breeding it is much simpler to find the outcome of your breeding as it only takes 1 year in a plant house to see what a parent line will do as you can have 3 generations in one year. In cattle it will take 9 or ten years to identify whether you have a true breeding parent. By using cross breeding to make one f1 parent you can get the best of both breeds. If you continue on crossing the second generation of crosses is when unpredictability starts to occur as they are not proven parent stock as they have not been bred back to them selves to see what percentages of what that they will produce. This is the main struggle that main stream cattle breeding is in all the time they are reproducing from crosses that have not been proven to be parent stock.

What we are doing is using True line Angus parent stock on what we have found to be close true line Charolais to make a true f1. We then take that true f1 and cross it with a True line Akaushi to make an end product that will always be terminal. The Akaushi that are in the US came from 3 bulls and 5 cows some 30 years ago and to my knowledge have not been diluted. We are in short terms getting a field of corn that to the eye looks uniform but will have 15% uniformity hidden with in it. This is good enough and will allow us maximum use of heterosis as a farmer would. So we can get on with the day to day business of ranching. As my partner and Daughter Jessica would say you put the boys with the girls and get the little ones. Bob H
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Update from Howard ranch on our true line experience   Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:35 am

mvcatt wrote:
I'm with MK I love these type of bulls. I'm sure Bob's F1's are very productive and it seems like they give him the end product he desires. A question for some on here who have had more late nighters with Larry than I. Did he visualize a F1 cow in a Truline system? Or did he believe you could get it done with a line cross within ones own herd?

ignoring the mis-placed heterosis, would the progeny variation be any different using crossbred f1 bulls on purebred cows?
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