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Mean Spirit



Posts : 321
Join date : 2010-09-26

PostSubject: Re: Riddle me this   Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:51 pm

R V wrote:
quote="RobertMac"]Our Government and medical community recommend a low fat, high carb diet to control obesity.We feed our cattle the same diet to make them fat(obese).
Why does no one question that logic?
[/color]

Not anymore, but the promotion and commotion crowd may still recommend that diet. It has always been wrong, but was pushed by those who are anti-meat. Most of us recommend whole grains and some fruits as primary carb source with lots of vegetables and a protein source. My personal favorites are lean beef and fish. We also recommend adequate exercise - currently 30-40 minutes five or more times per week. Unfortunately, very few of us have the time to exercise and eat away from home too much. The more tired or stressed I get, the more I like simple carbs and fat. Recent studies show that I am not the only one. Also excessive short term weight loss is usually followed by compensatory gain + extra weight to "survive the next famine." We can limit what our cows can eat and their food choices, but not ourselves. I am no different and I need to lose more weight that I would like to admit to get to my "ideal" body - those charts are also flawed, but I am about to wear out my soap box. I could wear you out with more details, but I would rather search out those Viking bred cows that were mentioned by Angus 62.

(I recommend KISS with a greater percentage of vegetables, whole grains, fruits and lean meats + exercise when you can + 20 ounces of water first thing in the morning (Yes before coffee or food.) + eat breakfast within 60 minutes of waking up + avoid extremes. My personal experience with this simple approach is a better energy level, 2-4 notches less in my belt and ~5 lbs weight loss in 4years instead of the average 1.5 lbs of weight gain per year. Those who are more motivated will lose more, but sustained weight loss is usually best with no more than 10-15 lb weight loss per year and most of this with lifestyle change and not starvation.)[/quote]

Looks pretty much right to me. I think weight loss and gain remains essentially a calorie thing, no matter what your eating. In people and in cows.
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RobertMac



Posts : 377
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Location : Mississippi, USA

PostSubject: Re: Riddle me this   Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:09 pm

Mean Spirit wrote:
R V wrote:
RobertMac wrote:
Our Government and medical community recommend a low fat, high carb diet to control obesity.We feed our cattle the same diet to make them fat(obese).
Why does no one question that logic?
Not anymore, but the promotion and commotion crowd may still recommend that diet. It has always been wrong, but was pushed by those who are anti-meat. Most of us recommend whole grains and some fruits as primary carb source with lots of vegetables and a protein source. My personal favorites are lean beef and fish. We also recommend adequate exercise - currently 30-40 minutes five or more times per week. Unfortunately, very few of us have the time to exercise and eat away from home too much. The more tired or stressed I get, the more I like simple carbs and fat. Recent studies show that I am not the only one. Also excessive short term weight loss is usually followed by compensatory gain + extra weight to "survive the next famine." We can limit what our cows can eat and their food choices, but not ourselves. I am no different and I need to lose more weight that I would like to admit to get to my "ideal" body - those charts are also flawed, but I am about to wear out my soap box. I could wear you out with more details, but I would rather search out those Viking bred cows that were mentioned by Angus 62.

(I recommend KISS with a greater percentage of vegetables, whole grains, fruits and lean meats + exercise when you can + 20 ounces of water first thing in the morning (Yes before coffee or food.) + eat breakfast within 60 minutes of waking up + avoid extremes. My personal experience with this simple approach is a better energy level, 2-4 notches less in my belt and ~5 lbs weight loss in 4years instead of the average 1.5 lbs of weight gain per year. Those who are more motivated will lose more, but sustained weight loss is usually best with no more than 10-15 lb weight loss per year and most of this with lifestyle change and not starvation.)

Looks pretty much right to me. I think weight loss and gain remains essentially a calorie thing, no matter what your eating. In people and in cows.

http://www.rd.com/health/the-myths-of-losing-weight/
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R V



Posts : 74
Join date : 2010-10-04

PostSubject: Re: Riddle me this   Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:48 pm

RobertMac wrote:
Mean Spirit wrote:
R V wrote:
RobertMac wrote:
Our Government and medical community recommend a low fat, high carb diet to control obesity.We feed our cattle the same diet to make them fat(obese).
Why does no one question that logic?
Not anymore, but the promotion and commotion crowd may still recommend that diet. It has always been wrong, but was pushed by those who are anti-meat. Most of us recommend whole grains and some fruits as primary carb source with lots of vegetables and a protein source. My personal favorites are lean beef and fish. We also recommend adequate exercise - currently 30-40 minutes five or more times per week. Unfortunately, very few of us have the time to exercise and eat away from home too much. The more tired or stressed I get, the more I like simple carbs and fat. Recent studies show that I am not the only one. Also excessive short term weight loss is usually followed by compensatory gain + extra weight to "survive the next famine." We can limit what our cows can eat and their food choices, but not ourselves. I am no different and I need to lose more weight that I would like to admit to get to my "ideal" body - those charts are also flawed, but I am about to wear out my soap box. I could wear you out with more details, but I would rather search out those Viking bred cows that were mentioned by Angus 62.

(I recommend KISS with a greater percentage of vegetables, whole grains, fruits and lean meats + exercise when you can + 20 ounces of water first thing in the morning (Yes before coffee or food.) + eat breakfast within 60 minutes of waking up + avoid extremes. My personal experience with this simple approach is a better energy level, 2-4 notches less in my belt and ~5 lbs weight loss in 4years instead of the average 1.5 lbs of weight gain per year. Those who are more motivated will lose more, but sustained weight loss is usually best with no more than 10-15 lb weight loss per year and most of this with lifestyle change and not starvation.)

Looks pretty much right to me. I think weight loss and gain remains essentially a calorie thing, no matter what your eating. In people and in cows.

http://www.rd.com/health/the-myths-of-losing-weight/

Good site + studies have shown that 20 oz or more (not less) of water first thing after you wake increase your metabolism/calories burned x 90 minutes & also that for breakfast to increase/maintain your metabolism, it should be eaten within 60 minutes of awakening. I believe these have both improved my energy levels during the day and my very modest weight loss and increase in lean body mass as I can think of no other variables have changed. Another interesting study done at Oxford followed 20,000 people over time and revealed that the size of your breakfast was inversely correlated to body weight over time - (ie. The big breakfast that grandma and grandpa ate early helped them stay leaner over time.). I guess I did make one other change, I eat a larger bowl of Kashi cereal for breakfast.

Also both cortisol and insulin affect body fat stores in humans. Increased stress causes increased cortisol, which usually leads to increased appetite and resultant increased weight over time. We also suspect that the primitive brain (cerebellum and brain stem) also play into these phenomena, but this is mostly theoretical at this time. There are also several studies correlating increased whole grains, fruit, vegetables (complex carb's) with decreased diabetes, heart disease, stroke, cancer, etc.

Another interesting observation is that general rules do not apply when humans are seeking a mate. Both young adults and recently divorced adults seem to stay or rapidly return to much leaner weights until they find a mate and then they the return to a more stable, but higher body fat.

My experiences thus far with cattle reveal different results. Increased stress seems to be likewise correlated with poorer endocrine function, but with poorer weight gain/performance. Consistency seems to improve endocrine function (especially when manipulating reproductive function with ET work.). My experience with cows is that the higher the body mass/weight of the cow, the more likely she is to eat more as she is more dominant. Weight/percentage of body fat just above average in my herd seems to be ideal. I don't have enough experience with bulls to comment definitively, but athleticism & libido seems to be the important factors and not a percentage of body fat.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Riddle me this   Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:42 pm

Dennis Voss wrote:
MK, New way is documentation with out illusion. Animal must be photographed in its natural habitat, i.e. grazing, walking, drinking, bellering, running etc. LL's way. Nothing clipped, washed, posed with Burk leg back, head up,etc.

posting these for Jack...I normally would have brought the bulls up closer by cropping the picture, but the country is so beautiful that I let them be as is...


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PostSubject: Re: Riddle me this   Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:04 pm

Thanks Mike. Dennis is this what you had in mind? As far as I'm concerned this is how all bull pictures should look. He's just some nasty ol thing that crawled in from the neighbors and I had to get pictures for the lawsuit but I liked the pictures.
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PostSubject: Re: Riddle me this   Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:15 pm

Did he live to see winter or did he turn into crowbait.
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RobertMac



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Location : Mississippi, USA

PostSubject: Re: Riddle me this   Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:24 pm

Nice bull, Jack...I guess that's what you have to settle fer when you starve a profit out ov'um!!! Laughing Laughing
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Riddle me this   Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:30 pm

MKeeney wrote:
Dennis Voss wrote:
MK, New way is documentation with out illusion. Animal must be photographed in its natural habitat, i.e. grazing, walking, drinking, bellering, running etc. LL's way. Nothing clipped, washed, posed with Burk leg back, head up,etc.

posting these for Jack...I normally would have brought the bulls up closer by cropping the picture, but the country is so beautiful that I let them be as is...



Whose brand? I finally feel like a real cattleman after hot brandng some of my cows yesterday that are headin` up slope
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PostSubject: Re: Riddle me this   Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:41 pm

Dennis Voss wrote:
Did he live to see winter or did he turn into crowbait.

He's still alive and well. He is missing a hind leg now though. A bull this good you don't just eat all at once.
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PostSubject: Re: Riddle me this   Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:48 pm

RobertMac wrote:
Nice bull, Jack...I guess that's what you have to settle fer when you starve a profit out ov'um!!! Laughing Laughing

I think we should start using the term "lowered input" so we can get away from the stigma of being no input. What do ya think? Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Riddle me this   Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:53 pm

Yes, Throw it into the manifesto hopper for LL review
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Hilly



Posts : 406
Join date : 2010-09-24
Location : Sylvan Lake, Alberta

PostSubject: Re: Riddle me this   Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:57 pm

MKeeney wrote:
Dennis Voss wrote:
MK, New way is documentation with out illusion. Animal must be photographed in its natural habitat, i.e. grazing, walking, drinking, bellering, running etc. LL's way. Nothing clipped, washed, posed with Burk leg back, head up,etc.

posting these for Jack...I normally would have brought the bulls up closer by cropping the picture, but the country is so beautiful that I let them be as is...

I agree about the country Mike, but cropping in nice and close allows me to be more accurate with the ruler... subsequently I can't say for sure if his measurements are right Wink

Nice pictures Jack, I’m not clear as to who’s bull it is... yours or your neighbours, but I am reminded of Larrys comment “our cattle are a reflection of the one who owns them.” Just judging from the picture... someone spends a lot of time looking for trouble Smile


Last edited by Hilly on Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Riddle me this   Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:01 pm

The Bar X 7 brand is ours. We used to put it on anything we bought. The champagne challis belongs to Dennis.

Dennis, I don't know if you recognized him or not. IT'S ALL ACADEMIC!
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PostSubject: Re: Riddle me this   Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:05 pm

Hilly wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
Dennis Voss wrote:
MK, New way is documentation with out illusion. Animal must be photographed in its natural habitat, i.e. grazing, walking, drinking, bellering, running etc. LL's way. Nothing clipped, washed, posed with Burk leg back, head up,etc.

posting these for Jack...I normally would have brought the bulls up closer by cropping the picture, but the country is so beautiful that I let them be as is...

I agree about the country Mike, but cropping in nice and close allows me to be more accurate with the ruler... subsequently I can't say for sure if his measurements are right Wink

Nice pictures Jack, I’m not clear as to who’s bull it is... yours or your neighbours, but I am reminded of Larrys comment “our cattle are a reflection of the one who owns them.” Just judging from the picture... someone spends a lot of time looking for trouble Smile

Actually the bull is a perfect gentleman but then again, he never gets on the internet. Embarassed
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PostSubject: Re: Riddle me this   Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:08 pm

or the hip pocket, I recognized that bull right off, its 5023 right? Already a 6 year old.
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PostSubject: Re: Riddle me this   Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:26 pm

Dennis Voss wrote:
or the hip pocket, I recognized that bull right off, its 5023 right? Already a 6 year old.

I thought champagne challis might doll it up in case any of the 4point9barY boys were snooping around the brand office. Yes it's 5023. He has been a grand bull for us. We used to never keep a bull past six. Hoping to get a few more years out of him. Going right back on his daughters this year. He is becoming the hamburger pattie in our cheeseburger.
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PostSubject: Re: Riddle me this   Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:33 am

Jack, Putting 5023 back on his daughters? That is stoking the fires of revolution .
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PostSubject: Re: Riddle me this   Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:19 am

Dennis Voss wrote:
Jack, Putting 5023 back on his daughters? That is stoking the fires of revolution .

That could be but like I said in my e-mail, I think of it more as establishing some genotpic uniformity into this God awful mixed up herd of ours. larry said in one of his posts that someone told him breeding cattle was easy until he met Larry. For me it's just the opposite. For me breeding cattle was like being a drift in the ocean. Sometimes at night I could see the North Star and get my direction back but mostly I just drifted or went in circles. Now I feel like I have been given a compass from people like you and Larry. I will probably never reach the island that I seek but at least I have direction and I know what the island looks like. That shouldn't put any pressure on you or Larry. I'm sure it has never been the intentions of either one of you to be this messiah for cattle breeders. My island, in my mind is all mine and it differs from everyone elses to some degree but I feel with this compass, my life has become much easier and enjoyable because now when I look to the horizon I have confidence that I'm heading straight where I want to be.
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PostSubject: Re: Riddle me this   Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:24 am

Jack McNamee wrote:
Dennis Voss wrote:
Jack, Putting 5023 back on his daughters? That is stoking the fires of revolution .

That could be but like I said in my e-mail, I think of it more as establishing some genotpic uniformity into this God awful mixed up herd of ours. larry said in one of his posts that someone told him breeding cattle was easy until he met Larry. For me it's just the opposite. For me breeding cattle was like being a drift in the ocean. Sometimes at night I could see the North Star and get my direction back but mostly I just drifted or went in circles. Now I feel like I have been given a compass from people like you and Larry. I will probably never reach the island that I seek but at least I have direction and I know what the island looks like. That shouldn't put any pressure on you or Larry. I'm sure it has never been the intentions of either one of you to be this messiah for cattle breeders. My island, in my mind is all mine and it differs from everyone elses to some degree but I feel with this compass, my life has become much easier and enjoyable because now when I look to the horizon I have confidence that I'm heading straight where I want to be.

Practice resurrection...the last two words of my favorite Manifesto poem Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Riddle me this   Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:18 am

That country that the bull lives is in perfect, can't beat a prairie scene. Nice bull too, but gotta love the big country.
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PostSubject: Re: Riddle me this   Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:25 pm

Jack McNamee wrote:
Dennis Voss wrote:
Jack, Putting 5023 back on his daughters? That is stoking the fires of revolution .

That could be but like I said in my e-mail, I think of it more as establishing some genotpic uniformity into this God awful mixed up herd of ours. larry said in one of his posts that someone told him breeding cattle was easy until he met Larry. For me it's just the opposite. For me breeding cattle was like being a drift in the ocean. Sometimes at night I could see the North Star and get my direction back but mostly I just drifted or went in circles. Now I feel like I have been given a compass from people like you and Larry. I will probably never reach the island that I seek but at least I have direction and I know what the island looks like. That shouldn't put any pressure on you or Larry. I'm sure it has never been the intentions of either one of you to be this messiah for cattle breeders. My island, in my mind is all mine and it differs from everyone elses to some degree but I feel with this compass, my life has become much easier and enjoyable because now when I look to the horizon I have confidence that I'm heading straight where I want to be.

Free at last, Free at last, from the bondage of circular whims.......Ain't it a grand Jack.....I have been sitting down with the Screwtape Letters, by CS Lewis, and am amazed by the darkside's strategy of preying on the fashionable whims of human notions, and the many parallels to the merry go round that is registered-dom.. Keep 'em comin', Jack.
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PostSubject: Re: Riddle me this   Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:41 pm

Bootheel wrote:
Jack McNamee wrote:
Dennis Voss wrote:
Jack, Putting 5023 back on his daughters? That is stoking the fires of revolution .

That could be but like I said in my e-mail, I think of it more as establishing some genotpic uniformity into this God awful mixed up herd of ours. larry said in one of his posts that someone told him breeding cattle was easy until he met Larry. For me it's just the opposite. For me breeding cattle was like being a drift in the ocean. Sometimes at night I could see the North Star and get my direction back but mostly I just drifted or went in circles. Now I feel like I have been given a compass from people like you and Larry. I will probably never reach the island that I seek but at least I have direction and I know what the island looks like. That shouldn't put any pressure on you or Larry. I'm sure it has never been the intentions of either one of you to be this messiah for cattle breeders. My island, in my mind is all mine and it differs from everyone elses to some degree but I feel with this compass, my life has become much easier and enjoyable because now when I look to the horizon I have confidence that I'm heading straight where I want to be.

Free at last, Free at last, from the bondage of circular whims.......Ain't it a grand Jack.....I have been sitting down with the Screwtape Letters, by CS Lewis, and am amazed by the darkside's strategy of preying on the fashionable whims of human notions, and the many parallels to the merry go round that is registered-dom.. Keep 'em comin', Jack.

I love all things CS Lewis. That book really makes you rethink things that you hadn't really considered as sins.
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PostSubject: Re: Riddle me this   Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:02 pm

Gregory Walker wrote:
Bootheel wrote:
Jack McNamee wrote:
Dennis Voss wrote:
Jack, Putting 5023 back on his daughters? That is stoking the fires of revolution .

That could be but like I said in my e-mail, I think of it more as establishing some genotpic uniformity into this God awful mixed up herd of ours. larry said in one of his posts that someone told him breeding cattle was easy until he met Larry. For me it's just the opposite. For me breeding cattle was like being a drift in the ocean. Sometimes at night I could see the North Star and get my direction back but mostly I just drifted or went in circles. Now I feel like I have been given a compass from people like you and Larry. I will probably never reach the island that I seek but at least I have direction and I know what the island looks like. That shouldn't put any pressure on you or Larry. I'm sure it has never been the intentions of either one of you to be this messiah for cattle breeders. My island, in my mind is all mine and it differs from everyone elses to some degree but I feel with this compass, my life has become much easier and enjoyable because now when I look to the horizon I have confidence that I'm heading straight where I want to be.

Free at last, Free at last, from the bondage of circular whims.......Ain't it a grand Jack.....I have been sitting down with the Screwtape Letters, by CS Lewis, and am amazed by the darkside's strategy of preying on the fashionable whims of human notions, and the many parallels to the merry go round that is registered-dom.. Keep 'em comin', Jack.

I love all things CS Lewis. That book really makes you rethink things that you hadn't really considered as sins.

ohhhhhh NOOOOOOOOOO, don`t tell me there`s more Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Riddle me this   Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:24 pm

Only by our incessant efforts is the demand for infinite, or unrhythmical, change kept up.....This demand is valuable in various ways. in the first place it diminishes pleasure while increasing desire. The pleasure of novelty is by its very nature more subject than any other to the law of diminishing returns. And continued novelty costs money, so that the desire for it spells avarice or unhappiness or both. And again the more rapacious this desire, the sooner it must eat up the innocent sources of pleasure and pass on to those the Enemy forbids..........Finally the desire for noveltyis indespensable if we are to produce Fashions or Vogues........The use of Fashions is thought to distract men from their real dangers, CS Lewis, Screwtape Letters.
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PostSubject: Re: Riddle me this   Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:26 pm

Bootheel wrote:
Only by our incessant efforts is the demand for infinite, or unrhythmical, change kept up.....This demand is valuable in various ways. in the first place it diminishes pleasure while increasing desire. The pleasure of novelty is by its very nature more subject than any other to the law of diminishing returns. And continued novelty costs money, so that the desire for it spells avarice or unhappiness or both. And again the more rapacious this desire, the sooner it must eat up the innocent sources of pleasure and pass on to those the Enemy forbids..........Finally the desire for noveltyis indespensable if we are to produce Fashions or Vogues........The use of Fashions is thought to distract men from their real dangers, CS Lewis, Screwtape Letters.

whoa Joe...revolutionary stuff there; the basis for a Manifesto...
I`m reading lighter stuff ... Smile but the analogy is clear...
Corn Shows, A Social Phenomenon
Corn shows were largely a social phenomenon that became popular in the U.S. Corn Belt beginning about 1900. In these shows, which were held at county and state fairs in the fall, a variety would be judged based on the appearance of a 10-ear sample. Uniform appearance of both ears and kernels reigned supreme. Thus, selection for uniformity became of paramount importance to many farmers from 1900 to 1920.

Some evidence suggests that this selection for uniformity actually caused grain yield potential to decline in open-pollinated varieties. But the prestige of the corn shows was so great, that few of the judges—many of whom were trained at reputable agricultural colleges—ever thought of testing the best of the show corns against similar open-pollinated varieties that were more variable
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