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 2015 Keeney Angus Bull Sale

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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:04 am

if I`m going to repeat the snickering bad, I feel I should put up the good....nahhh, the great... cheers

Kent Powell wrote...

What are Breeds as we know them? That was over long ago. They are bred like composites. They produce like composites. The biggest end product is used like he will be the best parent and it usually ends in disappointment. When one is a good parent, he is a goldmine. The purpose of a breed, which is made up on bloodlines, which is made up of strains, is consistent reliable reproducible results. When this is gone- What difference does it make?

It is all about the database. Why restrict yourself within the confines of an association or a limited gene pool? Improvement should come from any source available. Improvement today is about movement. Breeds are about stability. The paper isn't worth the death of the tree without a breeding program.

I don't understand the animosity toward the recording the data from derivatives. What a revenue stream. What a service to the commercial cattle industry. What an opportunity to measure the end product and the production animal unit rather than the seedstock. Remember this is supposed to be about progeny differences. Random cows can prove progeny differences. Measuring the seedstock based on their individual production was backwards from the start and has damaged all aspects of continuity of breeding programs. The other backward practice was having any ties of performance measurements and predictions to breed associations and their politics and demands for breed loyalty at all. This has kept commercial cattlemen in the dark, kept breeds from being comparable, and fueled the popularity contests, promotional prowess, and a power grab rather than being a source of improvement in the efficient, profitable production of BEEF.


agree totally; sentence by sentence; including derivatives ...what a beautiful write; paragraphs of wall hangers; addressed to those who need to hear; even if they can`t or will not see ...I think Berry and Thoreau would love the poetry of...

The paper isn't worth the death of the tree without a breeding program.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:53 pm

MKeeney wrote:
Fraternal vs maternal

nope, not a mis-spelling...

got a nice pr form letter thank you  for attending a sale...a pondering statement in it says ...

People buy cattle. I have never seen one cow buy another, therefore, whether we like it or not, we are in the people business.

I am not in the people business; I`m in the cattle business; in light of the truthiness of the statement above, my two statements would seem to eliminate me from the registered business.

does it eliminate one from the seedstock business as well? Do you need a friend or a bull?

sent Fenley to Ohio for the summer; some would call the lease {trucking} cheap enough to be a friendship thing; it`s not; it`s business... the primary business objective is spreading and perpetuating these tru-line breeding concepts...that`s enough for me; might not be enough for someone else...most, especially those who have had a good ass burning by the con game , are  rightfully leery of  such proclamations; hang around a while and maybe you`ll get your mind and eyes opened...what`s so rewarding for me is finding so many others putting these objectives above their wallet or their ego; a call of such nature this morning...on we go... thank you all...
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:47 pm

surely the best father-daughter commercial ever made...for old dads anyway; what a beautiful song...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iZfaep_LS4
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Mark Day



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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:01 pm

Mike,
That is a very nice Father Daughter video/song. Thanks for posting
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:45 pm

Mark Day wrote:
Mike,
That is a very nice Father Daughter video/song. Thanks for posting

bit of a tear jerker...you and your beautiful daughter have a couple of those scenes still ahead of you Mark...while on the subject of girls/women...I watched the end of the USA champion soccer match the other day, and was a quite ashamed Embarassed of myself for once being a redneck type, anti-government critic of Title Nine...good social legislation can happen and just watching soccer I thought how wrong I was; even before reading below...

What' is Title IX?
Title IX is a piece of legislation included in the Education Amendments 1972 that requires schools that receive federal funds to provide girls and women with equal opportunity to compete in sports. So all of a sudden girls got off the sidelines and onto the playing fields. And we say "AMEN!" to that.

Why Should You Care?· Research suggests that girls who participate in sports are more likely to experience academic success and graduate from high school than those that do not play sports.
· Half of all girls that participate in some kind of sports experience higher levels of self-esteem and less depression.
· Teenage female athletes are less likely to use drugs than teenage female non-athletes.
· Teenage athletes are less than half likely to get pregnant as teenage non athletes.
· The female student athletes that enroll in college have a higher graduation rate than their non-athlete female counterparts.

What Can You Do? First, we can play.
We can compete with our daughters and with our sons. The best vehicle for change is the example we set for our children.
Coach. Yes, coach.
Even if you don't exactly know how to, just learn. It is important that our little ones see women as authorities on sport.
Spend wisely.
Spend your money with companies and colleges that support women athletes.
Organize.
Get your girls involved in playing sport, any sport, by the age of 5 or 6. If that means organizing a rec. league, organize it! You want your daughter to have a solid base of sports participation and enjoyment well before puberty hits.

1 in 27 # of high school girls competing in sports prior to Title IX
1 in every 2.5 # of high school girls competing in sports today
3714 more women's teams on college campuses than there were in 1972
989 more men's teams
32,000 # of female college athletes in 1972
164,998 # of female college athletes today
8.7 The average number of women's teams offered per NCAA school in 2005.
2 # of women's teams offered per NCAA school in 1972
33% of total NCAA athletic budgets spent on ALL women's sports
% of NCAA men's athletic budget which goes to football and basketball

AND it's not just about sports, it's about equal opportunity in all aspects of publicly-funded education.
7% of law degrees earned by women in 1972
47 % of law degrees earned by women in 2007
9 % of medical degrees earned by women in 1972
43% of medical degrees earned by women in 2007
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Mark Day



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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:07 pm

Mike,
There has been a lot of good from Title IX but unfortunately it has often been at the expense of cutting many men's sports such as track and swimming at some schools. No one wants to see a reduction in spending for football or men's hoops. That goes over about as well in some groups as good non papered cattle being valued higher as seed stock than those highly promoted registered kind. The best policy is to treat everyone fairly because you want to and not because you are being forced to.
Allison's varsity hoops coach will be showing a September heifer at the local county fair and I suspect the heifer is from Grimes. Hard to beat a hand fed Grimes heifer in the show ring but part of me would love to give it a try. You have anything special on hand that could make it difficult on the judge? Mine are just on grass and likely don't look the part enough.

Btw - I am not worried about playing time if we beat him. Lol
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:47 am

nothing here Mark...I`d suggest buying one from the judge...the powers that still be in the AAA world put me on the KY state board about 40 years ago...that was the biggest decision we ever made; picking show judges...in fact, I remember them/us picking the man most responsible at the time for registered Angus derivatives...I thought what a waste, and quit after a year...starting my downward spiral as a good AAA loyalist...
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outsidethebox



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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:22 am

I grew up playing fast-pitch softball in Northern Indiana. We had a World Champion team come out of our county (Elkhart)...the Gonderman's brought in a pitcher from New Zealand to put them over the top. Today, the great game of fast-pitch is dominated by the females...I have no idea why men stopped playing. Regardless, I spent Friday and Saturday in the KC area scouting a tournament, for Hesston College, where around 1,000 high school age girls were competing for Kansas state championships. At Hesston High, where sports is king-the boys won state in basketball in 2014 and the girls in 2014 and 2015, curiously to me, there is no boys baseball team.

Otherwise, I believe Title IX was a good thing.
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Tom D
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:41 pm

OTB, you gonna make it up next week? We are going to unveil the foundation herd of Allegheny Blackfoot hair sheep. They are ultra rare and valuable.
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:31 pm

Tom D wrote:
OTB, you gonna make it up next week?  We are going to unveil the foundation herd of Allegheny Blackfoot hair sheep.  They are ultra rare and valuable.

If you ever get the association going and want to slip some non-breed genetics in the breed to win more shows or to create an extreme just let me know and we can ship you a ram at night.
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outsidethebox



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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:58 pm

Tom D wrote:
OTB, you gonna make it up next week?  We are going to unveil the foundation herd of Allegheny Blackfoot hair sheep.  They are ultra rare and valuable.

My wife has to work on Tuesday-we arrive in northern Indiana Wednesday evening. I believe that makes us a day late...we will see.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:41 pm

too funny...a fellow that bought a bull in 2014 just called to reserve another for next May to bred the daughters of the current to...he seemed so pleased that he probably thought my supply was being gobbled up...if he only knew  Rolling Eyes ...no, wait a sec, if more would only practice his experience, business would be jumping cheers
no , gesshhhh, that would cut into tee times...Sad

why must there be antagonisms in everything Question Question  Smile


The mind that is not baffled is not employed. The impeded stream is the one that sings.”
― Wendell Berry
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:40 am

oh gee...another opportunity to differentiate between a breeding herd and a registering  herd..

sss wrote:
Been DNA testing cattle this year. Here's what I have found.

We had 4 calves born in 1 day from 3 cows. Draw back of cell grazing.

Here's what I have found. Cow 1,2,3 all calved overnight with 4 calves. Now cow 1 raised 2 calves, cow 2 had 2 calves, cow 3 had 1 calf. But cow 1 raised 2 calves that was 1 hers and 1 of 2's. Cow 2 raised cow 3's calf and cow while cow 3 raised cow 2's other calf. Confused so am I those darn maternal Angus Cows. Cow 1 has raised 3 sets of twins we thought so that is why we are blood typing all the cows. Looks like she likes raising calves so will have to watch her this fall. She is due to calve in couple weeks is 13 years old and looking good.
patb wrote:
It is much easier to identify who's the momma if you have dna parentage your females. I have had several animals in the past that dna'd to a different momma then the one that raised them. In the process of parentage testing whole herd with the ggpld chip. I have had several AI sires not parentage to the correct sire also. How many animals have incorrect parentage due to cows swapping calves at birth or sneaky bull or record keeping errors.

never a problem here; a calf will never fail a parentage test here; they can only fail the selection criteria ; who is mom AND dad don`t matter...what you do is what matters...
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Mark Day



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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:02 pm

I was reminded Sunday that a potential buyer might appreciate seeing someone use their own Bulls purposely or accidentally and not be ashamed of the calves. My own yearling bull destined to be freezer beef but he wanted a legacy so he went through 2 hot fences and nearly 3/4 of a mile down the road in the middle of the night not once but 2x to get with my calving cows. 4 nice enough looking calves are the result.
You have 3 important parts of a cattle sale Mike - good looking cattle, fair prices and a story or 2 to tell.
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:54 am

well, I read the board candidate`s ideas about how the AAA can help me, the small breeder...

What can the association do to help the little guy compete? I think that is a good question Knabe . Someone running for the board contending some of the biggest herds are bent on consolidating power should have something to say. I have spent more time thinking and yes sometimes arguing about this very thing the last 5 years than perhaps any aspect of this business and yet I have no simple answer.
First and foremost I think it is in the best interest of smaller producers to look to themselves for solutions before depending on the association. I think there are a lot of areas where smaller herds can differentiate themselves from the larger herds. The smaller producer has an advantage in being able to market the cattle they breed whereas larger producers need to breed cattle for the market. This ability to focus on the traits most important to you and your customers instead of focusing on the traits the popular market is demanding is paramount in livestock breeding.
The reality that your preferred type is different from the perceived optimum market type is offset by the fact that you as a smaller producer should have more time with potential customers. It is easier to sell something that you have bred and selected for the traits you believe most important. You are given the opportunity to be a breeder first and a salesman second.
Do what you do best. If your cattle are lighter birth weight and maternally efficient there is your project and your market. What some may perceive as the limitations of small herds are actually some of their greatest strengths. The genetics from one of the perceived breed leaders in $ Beef who just happens to be one of the largest seed stock producers in the nation are being avoided by the 100,000 head feedlot down the road. Why? The feet and legs are so bad they don’t even stand up in the feedlot. In addition their cattle do not stay healthy. Apparently being on the cutting edge when I comes to all the technologies (Ultrasound, ET, AI, IVF, and Genomics) has its own set of problems.
The first time I met Bryce Schumann I was disagreeing and he was defending the AAA’s entry into the genomic world. I still would argue that Genomics was implemented in a manner that was detrimental to small breeders and small population bloodlines. Bryce said something to me that I will never forget because the way he said it let me know how much he meant it. He said, “It is important that he American Angus Association stay out of the business of picking winners and losers. The breed wins when we let the breeders dictate the type of Angus cattle we breed.” Bryce will always have my respect for saying that and meaning it.
While it is labeled as irresponsible and blasphemy to question some of the impacts of EPDs, Genomics or Ultrasound I think there is potential research that would highlight the issues that more is better thinking present. I think small producers and commercial producers both benifit from a deeper understanding of the positive and negative effects of these technologies. If there is a role for the American Angus Association in supporting smaller breeders I hope that it is some kind of shared participation in efficiency research. As long as the association publically tell breeders to genomic test all of their cattle and privately counsels breeders to avoid testing some genetics I question where this technology is leading us.


and just as I thought; they can`t help me {make better cattle} at all; I`m way too far advanced for them alien Idea ...for like Will, I believe in crossbreeding and heterosis; unlike Will, I use more prepotent purebreds to make those crosses...
ps...and when you register and transfer, they add your customer to the big boys mailing list so they can propaganda to  your customer easier; I guess that`s fair enough though; anyone swept away by the great nostalgic or current embellishments of purebred accomplishment, I have no time for...admittedly, holding breeders in comparison to the principles Larry demonstrated is a tough accounting for anyone; including us...and you must always remember that the first priority of any bureaucrat is to preserve the bureaucracy that provides their job...so thanks, but no thanks, I`m with the old man who met his newly elected congressman on the street, and gave him the admonition,

now sonny, when you get up there to Washington, don`t you do anything for me; because I just can`t afford it...
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:41 am

Quote :
they add your customer to the big boys mailing list

When the time rolls around for them to replace that great, high $, top labeled bull that goes bad early or doesn't live up to expectations, it is nice to make a customer and a friend of folks by selling them a functional, environmentally fitted bull for an uninflated value. Seems almost to be a common occurrence.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:50 pm

Registered still rings a louder bell than functional around here; and yes, uninflat...no deflated price is very important... I`ve been very accommodating to that market, but will be somewhat less so in the future...of course, some pay me more than I ask; I refer to them as friends not customers and say thanks...I owe you Exclamation
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Tue Sep 01, 2015 9:55 pm

16 big 7.5 ton loads of silage without a hitch today; that 2 row head makes all the difference on the 718 chopper Very Happy:D ...why, we might get done in another week... cheers
wonder how that would compare to the Wulf Cattle 24 hr/day chopping operation? Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:09 pm

whoooppppeeeeeeeeeeeee...was able to sent and convert 1 pic {a little shaky } from my new phone to here...one out of 4 ain`t bad Smile



dam of a yearling I used in the pasture with her...may keep him past 2; liked both their fly counts tonight; less milk in this cow than some; a +...Ole Kitster would be a while counting flies in KY now...best to just measure size of the fly blanket Evil or Very Mad
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:28 pm

got another cheers



naming this one...KA Fairy Tale  his story reads too much like Baby Bear`s soup; just right; we know the soup tasted good, but did it digest well? Smile ...we`ll see a maternal brother in Mo next year; a half sib mating...sire of this calf is quite the ordinary specimen, though Tom  said he really was a pretty ok kind of bull...Tom, like me, may not know, but he matters...Smile  

ps...Tom as not in Burke Smile
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:36 pm

Booked the caterer, building, and wine for 2017 Gathering tonight...wine so good, it`s going to be hard to let it age that long...maybe it was just having the Chamber tour and the silage done that gave me a high; plus it rained an inch cheers
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:33 pm

more 0 index production...

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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:50 pm

there is a bull JoeD, Briann, and I have used that without benefit of  b&s indexing , is showing a progeny superiority worthy of further investigation via more usage...

using BW`s  regular excuse, this is not a professional photograph.. Smile



more to come...





a half sibber


hope his dam meets approval; does mine...don`t get up tight about the white; she ain`t registered... Wink








oh yeah, one more routine dream weaver...it`s been dry Shocked

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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:47 pm

1.5 inches rain last couple days...5 straight days of drizzle coming...some boredom pics from the three yr old cows ; calves randomly sired by three smaller framed yearling Fenley sons who have departed {though I doubt to greener pastures  Smile }
the heaviest

the random




lose some udder quality on the half char cow; calf 3/4 Angus


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larkota



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PostSubject: Re: 2015 Keeney Angus Bull Sale   Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:39 pm

nice job Mike. Easy when one stops being creative.

need help weaning?
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