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 Fat Boy ????

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pukerimu



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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:11 pm

https://www.facebook.com/113989622044424/photos/pcb.735807926529254/735807813195932/?type=3&theater $100,000 bull

https://www.facebook.com/113989622044424/photos/pcb.735807926529254/735807826529264/?type=3&theater Thor - the sire as a 2 year old

https://www.facebook.com/113989622044424/photos/pcb.731384283638285/731384240304956/?type=3&theater Stern Cameron 0299 ET son of bull born in 80's - grandsire of dam of Thor

https://www.facebook.com/113989622044424/photos/pcb.731384283638285/731384266971620/?type=3&theater Mt Mable Max 327 - sire of dam of Thor - photo from 2007

https://www.facebook.com/113989622044424/photos/pcb.735807926529254/735807906529256/?type=3&theater Thor as a R5 year old this January

https://www.facebook.com/113989622044424/photos/pcb.730312883745425/730312750412105/?type=3&theater Summit 32 sire of Fat Boy born 2000

https://www.facebook.com/113989622044424/photos/pcb.776103609166352/776103559166357/?type=3&theater Fat Boy last week



Hopefully these links work - none of these bulls have been bred for their EBV's as frankly they are not great - they have all been bred for type, cow lines, longevity, conformation and constitution.  Most of the progeny have been sold into the commercial market as their numbers have not been attractive enough to a entice stud breeders - apart from Rangatira who bought the bull Thor 660 as a spec and as a show of solidarity when we were being persecuted for our outspokenness about our dissatisfaction with the disservice that was being done to ours and other like minded breeders by the quest for bigger, better, most and more in the number stakes.  More fool them we say to those who have allowed the genetics of these and other equally well bred bulls to slip out of the stud book.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:51 am

summit 32 looks out of place for your type...
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Sat Oct 17, 2015 4:38 pm

A lot more flesh on the bulls than would do here. Culprits; heat, fescue, warm season grasses that do not have a lot of punch in them? Don't know but not a fit. I never could figure how the Pinebank 41/97 could be so heavy and massive yet there was little extra to show for WW on calves that I know about in the USA. But I know little and accept it as somewhere that I should not venture.

Bulls or cows do not have to be great to be rare. Average cattle can be rare and pricy at the right moment. Like a current TV commercial talks about "when the time is right!". EXT was a passed over as a so-so until some realized that the mainstream EPDs were somewhat real on performance and milk and too much was too much. So an average bull became pricy and saved the day. Not sure that average sells as well today and less sure that the inflated EPDs are anywhere close to right. Don't see much demand for average anymore. But mainstream sale bulls sure keep getting uglier.

When subpar, unheard of and almost OK get to be rare; I'll be the king for a day! king Somebody please tell me if it happens so I can jot it down and mark it off of my unwritten bucket list! Razz
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pukerimu



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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:38 pm

MKeeney wrote:
summit 32 looks out of place for your type...

Now he would be - you are right - we had only had control of the stud for three years at that stage.  The story of Summit is this - we bid on and bought a bull with very little Pine Drive in him as we could see the lack of fleshing that doubling up of him was resulting in our herd - the bull himself over the pure NZ cows was almost a perfect fit to give them the frame that they lacked without taking away from their natural fleshing ability - too much PD and the fleshing started to wane quite quickly.

Sadly the bull was allowed to get over fat at a breeding centre before he was delivered to us and he did not perform.  The breeder generously agreed to take the bull back and provided us with a loan bull who was a grandson of Pine Drive (which we had been trying to avoid) - he did breed however very well for us and Summit was out of Mt Mable 747 who was an incredibly deep, thick and meaty cow.  It was the cow that made us decide to keep the bull which was the first home bred bull retained for several years. The previous photo was of Summit as a R2 bull who had been taken away from his mates as they were put through the sale ring the same day the photo was taken.  He had been pining a little so was not in as soft condition as he had been when the decision made to retain him.  He was a bull that always regained weight quickly after coming away from the cows but never in Fat Boy's league  lol!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=101632036534643&set=a.101631816534665.3937.100000635425137&type=3&theater

This photo was taken a few years later - while he does not have the softness, length, or the depth of rump, that we prefer these days his structure and type are what became our selection preference - the basics haven't changed in 18 years - just the definite's.  He was a big step towards us having the confidence in retaining our own cattle in preference to using other's.
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RobertMac



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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Sun Oct 18, 2015 10:18 am

EddieM wrote:
A lot more flesh on the bulls than would do here.  Culprits; heat, fescue, warm season grasses that do not have a lot of punch in them?  

That's an understatement on our summer grass. Late summer, early fall it's closer to cardboard and tree bark.

If we had year round ryegrass, our cattle would be fat too!
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pukerimu



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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Sun Oct 18, 2015 5:31 pm

Bear in mind all the pics of the young bulls are on the tail of the autumn grass flush and in full sale presentation mode. All of those bulls probably came out of their first winter in store condition only as all animals in NZ are on a maintenance (and in a non stud setting maintenance minus) ration during winter - the grass while present does not grow in most places (apart from far north and Waikato - dairy reigns supreme) for at least three months in winter - here our non growing period is more like 5 months - hence the reliance on winter crops for the young stock and the cows remaining up on the hills cleaning up the last of the summer rank before coming down just in time to calve. While they go into good saved grass as they calve, the later calvers, and ultimately all of them are surviving on baleage until the grass starts coming away on the hills again under them.

Timing is paramount - this year our ewes were lambing about four weeks before the grass was there and Kevin was almost beside himself at their poor condition - the porina spraying had been held up by poor weather as was the aerial top dressing of the hills which was amplifying the poor growing conditions - everything is looking completely different now and his worry is the sheep yards are under reconstruction, the hoggets are waiting for shearing and the lambs which are waiting to be docked are getting bigger and bigger - we will have to have a strong crew of lamb lifters this year - I am out of action for that sort of heavy lifting for a bit longer. Volunteers lol!
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Sun Oct 18, 2015 10:04 pm

pukerimu wrote:
Bear in mind all the pics of the young bulls are on the tail of the autumn grass flush and in full sale presentation mode.  All of those bulls probably came out of their first winter in store condition only as all animals in NZ are on a maintenance (and in a non stud setting maintenance minus) ration during winter - the grass while present does not grow in most places (apart from far north and Waikato - dairy reigns supreme) for at least three months in winter - here our non growing period is more like 5 months - hence the reliance on winter crops for the young stock and the cows remaining up on the hills cleaning up the last of the summer rank before coming down just in time to calve.  While they go into good saved grass as they calve, the later calvers, and ultimately all of them are surviving on baleage until the grass starts coming away on the hills again under them.

Timing is paramount - this year our ewes were lambing about four weeks before the grass was there and Kevin was almost beside himself at their poor condition - the porina spraying had been held up by poor weather as was the aerial top dressing of the hills which was amplifying the poor growing conditions - everything is looking completely different now and his worry is the sheep yards are under reconstruction, the hoggets are waiting for shearing and the lambs which are waiting to be docked are getting bigger and bigger - we will have to have a strong crew of lamb lifters this year - I am out of action for that sort of heavy lifting for a bit longer.  Volunteers lol!

Volunteer? Not me, I'm too lazy to do my own sheep. I went with hair sheep, no docking and selection for parasite resistance so that worming is minimal and only for the ones that will survive to be the next culled group. No room for compassion in culling for problems. Cull harshly and select carefully. It gives me more excuses to do stuff that lazy people do like cut firewood and build fences.
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pukerimu



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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:18 am

Oh go on Eddie - you know you want to lol! lol!

We have often thought about the shedding sheep but good quality wool looks like it is climbing out of the doldrums ................... finally and just cannot imagine how much wool would be shed in the paddocks in the time it takes to get a ewe flock of 2700 past the third or fourth wool less cross stage. We have thought about it and observed others who have gone down that path and there is a lot of wool in the paddocks, on the fences and in the air for several years.

Happy that you are happy with your flocks performance Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:17 am

adding Megan`s bulls here as well...in the email, you referred to these as the A bulls...older, best, biggest???

















no wonder my golf score is slipping; I can`t tell a group of pine trees from a mansion...maybe it was just a look at the egg, see the eagle moment Smile
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pukerimu



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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:29 pm

Haha - you should try my lenses

"A" mob are the most preferred bulls - not necessarily eldest or biggest - the ones that we think have the potential to fit nicely in the first 25 catalogued (they are catalogued in their mobs making sale day less stressful and manageable for helpers in the yards) - the other mob is called B and then there is the C - tail end "cut off their heads" mob - usually about 10, taken off at 400 day weigh (Oct) - we put any that have been selected to sell as yearlings in this mob (usually less than 4) and once they have gone the remainder are fattened and killed as soon as they have reached the works acceptable weight. Over the months leading to the sale another cut is made into the B mob. The culls are usually injuries, conformation, temperament (although most is weeded out at the 400 day cull) and bulls that are just not keeping up with their mates and these are killed too. An earlier cut of calves that have been injured, have small testicles, any other unacceptable fault or their mother offended us at calving are steered.
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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Fri Jan 15, 2016 12:54 am

in response to a recent request about pics of older cows in a discussion thread, Megan sends the following pics and commentary...when in doubt where to post, I just head to this topic...I`m posting these pics  singular so Megan can comment specifically as she chooses...
here is the email that provides a general commentary ...

Hi Mike – I cannot remember the thread (perhaps Bob H’s) but LCP (I think – have not been into the corner to check again) asked if I could put up some pics of the cows in production.

The cows with bull calves have been held up on a back flat while lambs and ewes have been mustered through their paddock – cows with calves just love noisy huntaway’s barking and chasing sheep in amongst them and their calves ........... not!

We cut bales off the paddock a few days before they went in – they have done a great job of cleaning up the sidings but were waiting at the gate when I went out to move them back into their paddock.  They had been in there for about 4 days – the numbers run consecutively so the higher the number the younger the cow – the oldest cow on the place is 76 – who is not in either of these mobs – and she was born in 2001 – if that helps to put the cows numbers vs ages into perspective.

The big cow in the thistles is Mt Mable Andrea 384 and she was born in 2006.  Fat Boy’s full sister Mt Mable Bounty 283 is the last cow pictured – she was born in 2004.  The other shots are black face lambs busily getting fat – their white face mates are in the shed being shorn – dodging showers – we were up at 4.30am this morning to get more dagged before the shearers arrived at 7am.  At 8am two trucks and trailers arrived to cart 680 5 yr ewes to the sale – trying to think of it as the last time ever but still to freakin busy – have 100’s of ewes to run through the dagging crush between now and Sunday when the shearers come back to do them –

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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Fri Jan 15, 2016 12:55 am

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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Fri Jan 15, 2016 12:56 am

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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Fri Jan 15, 2016 12:57 am

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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Fri Jan 15, 2016 12:58 am

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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Fri Jan 15, 2016 12:58 am

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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Fri Jan 15, 2016 12:59 am

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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:04 am



note from mk
I put the two sheep pictures together aspiring to cut the owner`s negative comments in half  lol!



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pukerimu



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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:35 pm

Thanks for posting Mike - I will save any great explanation of the cows until someone asks - just took the camera and took a handful of photos of the closest cows. To my chagrin found yesterday that they had not had any water in their trough - hence the muddy legs - the trough is gravity fed from a dam and as the one just over the fence is working we must assume that there is some form of gunge in the ball cock - fortunately there is a swampy area in the paddock and we had rain all day for at least one day that they were held up or I might have been stampeded when I opened the gate - as it was they were pretty happy to see me.
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R V



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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:01 pm

Megan and Mike,
Thanks for the pictures! I am trying to learn more about form and function. The udders are less extreme and more what I would anticipate in a grass based system. I think Bonsma would like your cows. I suspect most of your cattle would adapt to our fescue environment well within a generation or two.
Thanks again!
Ron
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Mark Day



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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:34 am

Beautiful place and cattle. Thanks for sharing
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pukerimu



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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:08 pm

Thank you so much for your interest and lovely comments for our cattle.

Just got back from spreading out the B mob - we have been a little slow in culling out the "no chance" of getting to the sale bulls - the selection for culling was looking like it was going to be a really hard job but since then the nature of the beasts have revealed themselves and some have coped less well with an outbreak of fighting and riding than others - there are now some very obvious works bulls. A fresh shift should settle them a little which also entails a move away from a dam and hillock which has apparently been hotly contested in the "king of the castle" battle - accentuated by some incredibly hot summer weather - oh boy 7 years and a contract on the place and now we have pastures like we have never seen, my garden is looking gorgeous, new sheep yards etc - makes us wonder if we are in fact not a little mad - on the up side we are planning on downsizing (not the cattle operation) and getting rid of the sheep - perhaps we might just get there for 2017's gathering??!

Hopefully when next we look at the B mob they will all be looking back at us chewing their cuds not in small groups of miscreants. Have identified the son of Andrea 384 pictured just before the lamb pictures as a potential keeper in that mob though so it was a worthwhile trip out there. He is the son of a bull we particularly liked and no longer have due to injury.
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:36 pm

Hey Megan if it gets too hot you could always come here and cool off - it was -43C with the windchill this morning Very Happy
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pukerimu



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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:21 pm

Brrgh ............... thanks for the thought Grassy but that is the exact thing we are trying to get away from. Cheers Mate Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:13 pm

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