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 Fat Boy ????

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larkota



Posts : 371
Join date : 2010-09-23
Age : 57
Location : Kimball South Dakota

PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:11 am

MKeeney wrote:
sunset out Megan`s dining room window...just for the heck of it, after Leroy suggested yesterday we should visit NZ, I have started to monitor Megan`s weather Very Happy 63 degree F right now; showers in the forecast Smile


Megan,
noticed before but never said anything....post cheap? like the work? snow pull your fence down? you keeping something out or that hard to keep in?
I set 2 wood, 1 steel every rod or 16.5 feet with 3 or 5 barb wire, depending on outside traffic.
out west I have seen good 4 barbs keep sheep in. what's the story?




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PatB



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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:12 am

She does have pasture maggots(sheep) and they love to find ways out.
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pukerimu



Posts : 246
Join date : 2012-06-02
Location : Norsewood, New Zealand

PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:14 pm

You're both right - sheep love holes - especially lambs - they can find them with ease. NZ fencing evolved due to the terrain - perhaps that many post and batten is overkill on flat land but on most of the terrain it is necessary to keep the fences tight. We had fencelines on our old place that had more strainers and angles than plain posts. Posts are cheapish I guess in NZ and actually steel posts would be an expensive option - lots of pine forests in NZ - only one steel works.

The wind plays hell with our fences on this place - not so bad at the front of the farm where we have about 7 pine shelter belts between us and the full force of the wind but there is one length (about 400 metres I guess) just plain post and batten fence in one spot (not even topped up with deer netting and long battens ..................... don't even get me started on that - tell me what sort of moron tops up perfectly good eight wire fences with deer netting by stapling long battens onto the existing wire and does not put any deer fence posts in - except at each end ...... in potentially one of the windiest spots in NZ??????????????????) in which the wires have broken multiple times (broken again at the moment) - once one goes the battens start moving which then puts pressure on the rest - ping ping ping .................

https://nz.weather.yahoo.com/maps/

Here is a better map to show you where we are.

http://www.yr.no/place/New_Zealand/Manawatu-Wanganui/Norsewood/

We have what is called the Norsewood gap on our back boundary - a low point in the Ruahine Mountain range - the wind fohnes (sp) through there like you would not believe.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:52 pm

pukerimu wrote:
You're both right - sheep love holes - especially lambs - they can find them with ease.  NZ fencing evolved due to the terrain - perhaps that many post and batten is overkill on flat land but on most of the terrain it is necessary to keep the fences tight.  We had fencelines on our old place that had more strainers and angles than plain posts.  Posts are cheapish I guess in NZ and actually steel posts would be an expensive option - lots of pine forests in NZ - only one steel works.

The wind plays hell with our fences on this place - not so bad at the front of the farm where we have about 7 pine shelter belts between us and the full force of the wind but there is one length (about 400 metres I guess) just plain post and batten fence in one spot (not even topped up with deer netting and long battens ..................... don't even get me started on that - tell me what sort of moron tops up perfectly good eight wire fences with deer netting by stapling long battens onto the existing wire and does not put any deer fence posts in - except at each end ...... in potentially one of the windiest spots in NZ??????????????????) in which the wires have broken multiple times (broken again at the moment) - once one goes the battens start moving which then puts pressure on the rest - ping ping ping .................

https://nz.weather.yahoo.com/maps/

Here is a better map to show you where we are.

http://www.yr.no/place/New_Zealand/Manawatu-Wanganui/Norsewood/

We have what is called the Norsewood gap on our back boundary - a low point in the Ruahine Mountain range - the wind fohnes (sp) through there like you would not believe.

you can`t keep sending me pictures like this and expect me to believe any of that "tough country" stuff Smile

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pukerimu



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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:07 pm

You will just have to come and look for yourself then cyclops - this station is unique even by NZ standards that it has fabulous flats, rolling, steep and very steep - very few properties have flat and then mountains in the North Island - of course the South Island is renown for that - iconic high country stations usually have river flats and then the Southern Alps as a back drop.

It has gone from heavy rain and gales this morning to lovely warm sunshine now - we have gone from a "where the heck is the grass" situation to "oh my look at the grass" in the space of a week (it was snowing and the fire going this time last week) - the two mobs of cows are off the flats now and the fert truck has been around in preparation for shutting up for silage. We are FINALLY seeing the results of careful rotational grazing, regressing and fertiliser - it has taken 6 years!

Another two mobs running with younger bulls have been out on the rolling stuff all along, and the heifers on tougher going still. Once the bulls are away and the cows sorted into a bull calf and heifer calf mob they get pushed up and out until weaning (some of the really old cows or ones carrying injuries are kept on the softer country all along) and then once weaned they are put on the big hills to clean up the rank left by the ewes and lambs until they are brought back down for calving and so it goes around and around. The young stock are kept on the easier country for finishing for the sale, the works or mating.

All the really good country (not shut up for winter supplements) is then given over to the lambs for fattening once they are weaned - in about 3 weeks. Much drafting and drenching to look forward to ............. yippee Evil or Very Mad
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pukerimu



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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:09 am

Note to self ..................... do not take garden photos until after the weeding is done ................ my bad - when I get my "roundtoit" the job will be done Wink
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:18 am

pukerimu wrote:
Note to self ..................... do not take garden photos until after the weeding is done ................ my bad - when I get my "roundtoit" the job will be done Wink

Weeds make me feel like I am at home! Funny that many think the road view or the yard view is the whole farm view. I guess that's why the "front pasture cattle" are out there for the show folks.
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outsidethebox



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Age : 64
Location : Goessel, Kansas

PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:46 am

pukerimu wrote:
You will just have to come and look for yourself then  cyclops  - this station is unique even by NZ standards that it has fabulous flats, rolling, steep and very steep - very few properties have flat and then mountains in the North Island - of course the South Island is renown for that - iconic high country stations usually have river flats and then the Southern Alps as a back drop.

It has gone from heavy rain and gales this morning to lovely warm sunshine now - we have gone from a "where the heck is the grass" situation to "oh my look at the grass" in the space of a week (it was snowing and the fire going this time last week) - the two mobs of cows are off the flats now and the fert truck has been around in preparation for shutting up for silage.  We are FINALLY seeing the results of careful rotational grazing, regressing and fertiliser - it has taken 6 years!

Another two mobs running with younger bulls have been out on the rolling stuff all along, and the heifers on tougher going still.  Once the bulls are away and the cows sorted into a bull calf and heifer calf mob they get pushed up and out until weaning (some of the really old cows or ones carrying injuries are kept on the softer country all along) and then once weaned they are put on the big hills to clean up the rank left by the ewes and lambs until they are brought back down for calving and so it goes around and around.  The young stock are kept on the easier country for finishing for the sale, the works or mating.

All the really good country (not shut up for winter supplements) is then given over to the lambs for fattening once they are weaned - in about 3 weeks.  Much drafting and drenching to look forward to ............. yippee  Evil or Very Mad

New Zealand has long been on my bucket list. This would be one way of getting both my wife and me to a gathering. Oh! And how is the trout fishing?
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pukerimu



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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:56 pm

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152954416646015&set=a.465713746014.274458.599261014&type=1&theater

Hopefully the link works - Ekatahuna is about 3/4 hr south of us - Trout were introduced into NZ - hot fishing spots in Taupo, Turangi and around Rotorua and the Manawatu river which has it's head waters just North of us.  Also many fishing spots in the South Island.  We sold our three passed in sale bulls to a large property between here and Taupo - Poronui Station which is owned by Americans and in addition to being a large working sheep and beef station is a luxury fishing outdoorsy lodge.  We have trout in the two streams / rivers which are our Northern and Southern boundaries but they usually only come up for spawning - we talk about catching one but Kevin never seems to make the time to go and sit on the bank to try .......................... now where did we put that "roundtoit" again?

Anybody from the corner would be welcome to put Pukerimu on their itinerary if visiting NZ.

Eddie - our driveway is 2.3km long - sadly only people coming up to the house or going into the two privately owned hunting blocks which have right of way through here get to see that view of our bulls - tragic but true but after living for a time in a goldfish bowl property on a main state highway I know what I prefer ......................... don't even have to mind the language when no one can hear.  Lost the plot completely on a hill on the goldfish property - came on around the corner to find a 4 of golfers on the tee on the golf course which was next door - I didn't hang around long enough to ask them just what they had heard - it was hot, the calf ran around and around the side of the hill before finally rediscovering the gate way it had baulked at and I have a loud voice - have you got that picture in your head? .............. I still do and it was 7 years ago Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:29 pm

I expect the golfers were used to the language among themselves when their drives did not drive and their putts did not putt according to the most recent Golf magazine how-to's. We are in rolling land where the main roads are generally on the ridges and the land falls off towards streams to either side. More like that for the older roads before cars so that the drainage would be natural. Not all as there are a lot of abandoned old segments of curved roads here and there. And then there are roads up and down the hills. The closest one to us was originally an Indian trail, had a 1700's gristmill there for a while before it washed out and is a farm to market road today. The stream across the road from us is Hen Coop Creek and was known as the best water for making moonshine in our area due to the low iron content. Moonshine has given way to meth so nobody runs off any more 'shine.
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pukerimu



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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:46 am

Thanks for all the interesting tid-bits Eddie - fascinating - meth seems to be a global curse - NZ not immune although as with all things seems to hit certain sectors of the population heavier than others!

Thank you for having such faith in my good breeding but frankly even now the recollection is enough to make me blush and I am sure that even a hardened sailor would've back then affraid
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:14 am

at least you weren`t on tv Megan...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bSxRMwNEJo

golf being a "gentleman`s " game, we can therefore excuse Suzann Smile  I hope to be following her play in January, at a safe distance of course Smile
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pukerimu



Posts : 246
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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:40 pm

haha - she is a pussy cat - if it were me on TV it would have come with a parental advisory and the bleeps wouldn't have been fast enough - I kid you not ........... it was bad and I am ever so slightly ashamed about it - then and now.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Sun Oct 11, 2015 9:10 am

getting a little shaky with the camera Megan?  Smile



is this spring or winter grass?
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pukerimu



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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:44 pm

Winter grass - saved - new pasture - the bull had been held up around the implement sheds and had got a bit light - we put him in there for a couple of weeks and later that day he was waddled back into short rations to lose some weight before going out with the cows at the end of the month. Was holding the phone through the deer netting and avoiding a hot wire on both sides of the fence and convalescing when that photo was taken - how is that for a string of excuses lol!

We have him in much better condition now and have an A/I tech coming to take semen on Thursday - our Beef and Lamb farmer funded organisation has waded into the debate about figures and their current usability under the typical commercial hill country environment and are running a benchmarking programme involving three large properties A/I'ing cows to a selection of bulls with a variety of EBV's to see how they compare. Our breed Assn Manager asked us especially to enter Fat Boy even though he is average or below for just about everything (except fat - and we named him before he had even ever been ultrasound scanned - imagine that - being able to see it????) due to the success of his son's progeny at the Gisborne sales this year - we are not usually into that sort of thing but reasoned that he is 9 now, we should probably put a few straws in the bank for ourselves and since we have been pretty vocal in our belief that the high figured rubbish coming into the country and being touted as "superior" to traditionally bred hill country cattle is not up to scratch - should put up Fat Boy as a comparison - even if the results are not a startling contrast we are confident that his steers and heifers will perform as well and probably better than anyone else's and at the end of the day, we still have the bull, his breeding daughters are starting to reveal themselves, and our clients are also VERY happy with his progeny - which is what it is all about first and foremost - for us anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:23 am

Good for you Megan...let`s hope there is a website of beginning and ending facts so each of us can draw our own conclusions rather than only hearing and reading the segmented promotions of purebred preaching... cheers
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PatB



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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:13 am

pukerimu wrote:
Winter grass - saved - new pasture - the bull had been held up around the implement sheds and had got a bit light - we put him in there for a couple of weeks and later that day he was waddled back into short rations to lose some weight before going out with the cows at the end of the month.  Was holding the phone through the deer netting and avoiding a hot wire on both sides of the fence and convalescing when that photo was taken - how is that for a string of excuses lol!

We have him in much better condition now and have an A/I tech coming to take semen on Thursday - our Beef and Lamb farmer funded organisation has waded into the debate about figures and their current usability under the typical commercial hill country environment and are running a benchmarking programme involving three large properties A/I'ing cows to a selection of bulls with a variety of EBV's to see how they compare.  Our breed Assn Manager asked us especially to enter Fat Boy even though he is average or below for just about everything (except fat - and we named him before he had even ever been ultrasound scanned - imagine that - being able to see it????) due to the success of his son's progeny at the Gisborne sales this year - we are not usually into that sort of thing but reasoned that he is 9 now, we should probably put a few straws in the bank for ourselves and since we have been pretty vocal in our belief that the high figured rubbish coming into the country and being touted as "superior" to traditionally bred hill country cattle is not up to scratch - should put up Fat Boy as a comparison - even if the results are not a startling contrast we are confident that his steers and heifers will perform as well and probably better than anyone else's and at the end of the day, we still have the bull, his breeding daughters are starting to reveal themselves, and our clients are also VERY happy with his progeny - which is what it is all about first and foremost - for us anyway.

Do you have any details on how cows will be selected to be mated to which bulls or will it be strictly random matings? Will offspring be dna parentaged so the correct bull gets credited with all their offspring? How many AI sires will each herd use in the experiment or will all three properties AI to all the bulls? Please keep us posted as the project moves forward.
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pukerimu



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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:37 pm

I am almost confident Mike that the results will be well edited ................... old habits die hard.

Pat as far as I know it will be random matings. I am expecting the progeny to be DNA tested - all the bulls are registered with the NZ Angus Assn (or other breed registry - there are some Herefords and some other breeds in there was well I think) so they will have a DNA profile on file. I will definitely keep you up to play with it - will have a hunt for a relevant website link and attach.
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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:25 am

more evidence to support the idea that for something to sell, it must be rare...

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/playboy-to-drop-nudity-as-internet-fills-demand/ar-AAfnWTw?li=BBgzzfc
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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:08 am

pukerimu wrote:
Winter grass - saved - new pasture - the bull had been held up around the implement sheds and had got a bit light - we put him in there for a couple of weeks and later that day he was waddled back into short rations to lose some weight before going out with the cows at the end of the month.  Was holding the phone through the deer netting and avoiding a hot wire on both sides of the fence and convalescing when that photo was taken - how is that for a string of excuses lol!

We have him in much better condition now and have an A/I tech coming to take semen on Thursday - our Beef and Lamb farmer funded organisation has waded into the debate about figures and their current usability under the typical commercial hill country environment and are running a benchmarking programme involving three large properties A/I'ing cows to a selection of bulls with a variety of EBV's to see how they compare.  Our breed Assn Manager asked us especially to enter Fat Boy even though he is average or below for just about everything (except fat - and we named him before he had even ever been ultrasound scanned - imagine that - being able to see it????) due to the success of his son's progeny at the Gisborne sales this year - we are not usually into that sort of thing but reasoned that he is 9 now, we should probably put a few straws in the bank for ourselves and since we have been pretty vocal in our belief that the high figured rubbish coming into the country and being touted as "superior" to traditionally bred hill country cattle is not up to scratch - should put up Fat Boy as a comparison - even if the results are not a startling contrast we are confident that his steers and heifers will perform as well and probably better than anyone else's and at the end of the day, we still have the bull, his breeding daughters are starting to reveal themselves, and our clients are also VERY happy with his progeny - which is what it is all about first and foremost - for us anyway.

“The noble title of "dissident" must be earned rather than claimed; it connotes sacrifice and risk rather than mere disagreement.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
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pukerimu



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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:36 pm

Haha - not sure about dissident but we are happy to be labelled publicly as "ignorant and uninformed" when our cattle also go out publicly and do the business for our bull buyers - one had 28 barely 12 month old steers at 390kg average for $1367 per head at a large yarding of yearling cattle yesterday (remarkable enough that a stock agent rang to tell us about it) and another killing r3 steers (remember all grass fed) at carcase weight of 408kg, $2500 net and not a trim or fat grade amongst them - we have got to be happy with that.

The guy with the yearlings has been buying our bulls since 2011 - the last couple of years he has been in the upper echelon of money paid for them - we can see why - he just tripled his money on one of his bulls on one pen of cattle.
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:27 pm

pukerimu wrote:
Haha - not sure about dissident but we are happy to be labelled publicly as "ignorant and uninformed" when our cattle also go out publicly and do the business for our bull buyers - one had 28 barely 12 month old steers at 390kg average for $1367 per head at a large yarding of yearling cattle yesterday (remarkable enough that a stock agent rang to tell us about it) and another killing r3 steers (remember all grass fed) at carcase weight of 408kg, $2500 net and not a trim or fat grade amongst them - we have got to be happy with that.

The guy with the yearlings has been buying our bulls since 2011 - the last couple of years he has been in the upper echelon of money paid for them - we can see why - he just tripled his money on one of his bulls on one pen of cattle.

According to the definition you are not sacrificing enough! Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:42 am

I try to deny myself any illusions or delusions, and I think that this perhaps entitles me to try and deny the same to others, at least as long as they refuse to keep their fantasies to themselves...

Christopher Hitchens
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pukerimu



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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:40 pm

One collection - 260 straws of "excellent quality semen - is that bull really 9?" (Owner operator of Tararua Breeding Centre).  Technician blown away by overall condition of bull, good feet of said bull and temperament of bull - and you know when we kept him out of the sale in 2008 we considered him "just a bull who will do for our heifers" - just like we were surprised by another stud buying his son, the sire of the $100k bull, as we had also considered him "just a bull" - got to wonder what the bulls who we thought were that much more special over the years would have bred if their numbers "were just good enough" for the stud book guys - instead bulls with data that "just cannot be ignored" (as in we will ignore everything else that is not right with them) that have populated the herd book over the last 20 or so years ...............................
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: Fat Boy ????   Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:21 am

Collectors are used to bulls on concrete so they expect bad feet and joints from my limited exposure. There many be runs for the bulls outside but a lot of shade time, feed time and such is on hard surfaces and they take their toll. I see the same thing expressed by buyers of forage based bulls when they say, "Wow, these bulls are like athletes." And they are right. If I want pigs I will buy swine.

My problems with individual animals that possess "greatness" in some way is that they seldom transmit greatness. If you covet EPD or EBV greatness they may sire progeny with higher EPD and EBV averages but with a vast array or range of quality for whatever trait is your goal or means to measure. I have to admit that I am more of a genetic experimenter than a true breeder. I look for those quirky "great" animals that do what I need whether in the herd or flock or outside the owned animals. I have biases, too. I like the idea of longevity in steady producing females who can replicate themselves in their daughters and granddaughters via sons and daughters. Let me visit your farm and see your animals and I will hound dog those lines of sheep or cows that breed true generation after generation. I do not have to sniff too many trails because few share my interest in their programs or, if truth be known, there are few livestock which are bred or possess the potency to breed true for the traits I want.

Sheep are fun to me because I can turn generations faster, have more offspring to tweak and linecross or inbreed and I just find it a great joy. I can make freaks in a short while or I can amass a female line in no time and either look smart or look foolish and then redo it all again. All the while the survivors are more fit to the environment and have improved traits that I want.

Cattle are slow and with Angus, especially, in my view, they have been upsized, downsized, washed and fluffed, put out to so many environments, over priced and written about in such flowery terms for so long that they suffer the lack of a true inter core. This is the wrong term but the way I view it. I just concluded the fairly lengthy search for a cow/line/cross that was based on a sire of what I wanted and a cow that went the extra mile. It was not an unusual concluding chapter to this saga. The bull's son that caught my eye was a sire that had sired what I wanted with some issues that I did not need. I could have fixed the issues. But there was a son from this old granny cow that caught my eye. Could Mr. New Bull combine the wants I had in his old great daddy with the longevity of his old steady mama and help me along life's slow road of cattle breeding? Ain't no "happy ever after" to this story, as most, because the cow did not replicate herself in plenty of offspring to see and the sire's desired traits did not show up. Results: back to my bulls for another year and hopefully a better fable.
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