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 The Near Perfect Cow

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Hilly



Posts : 388
Join date : 2010-09-24
Location : Sylvan Lake, Alberta

PostSubject: Re: The Near Perfect Cow   Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:18 am

EddieM wrote:
Well, the reports of my death or exit have been greatly exaggerated.  I'm here, talking to myself, enjoying the conversation and waiting my years to see if I have made the right choices in cows and sheep.  No superlatives needed to discuss stuff.  Just ear tag numbers, a knowledge of the backgrounds for those who care (including me and the shadow), some records and comparatives, a dash of Bonsma, plans for pastures and what happens will happen.  I need to find my shadow picture from the 2016 Gathering. It represents me well.  I am a void looking to be filled with information, discovery, good stuff and a better way.  I took pictures on the same trip of other folks talking, action shots, groups mingling but I sort of like the unknown status of "the shadow".  I guess I could twist it to be the "Unknown Cattle Guy" like the old unknown comic but it is too hot and humid to put a paper bag over my head with eye holes even though that would help with the gnats but some unattractive lady might think I am on the troll for a mate or something. There was an old joke about two bags years ago if you are old enough to remember.  And the sheriff might think I am wanting something that isn't mine so I'll just stick to the shadow picture and avoid the bag.



Unknown, unappreciated, not admired, kicked off of Disadvantage for stating my mind in public, small herd guy, misunderstood, talking to my shadow; the cows don't seem to mind and none of them call me by name anyway but they do recognize the sound of the truck.  And to be honest, I don't mind.  Seems like years ought to count for a higher college degree if we learn something.  If we bred cows for our fame we would not bred the right cows. Sure doesn't seem that a lot of education and the educated have improved cattle or stabilized a type.  Hollywood never had a famed "Superbull" but did have a talking horse.  If we had a superbull it would be a mess with him flying over the fences, anyhow.  In actuality we sometimes fall into the right cows and fail with the expected best cows with or without the summa cum laude of experiences, fame or whatever some seem to want to make everybody else lockstep as part of livestock breeding.

It takes all kind of cows, it seems: the survivors of the desert, Al's reported grinders of the SW, the woolly marbled mammoths of Iowa, the slick fescue eaters in KY out on road trips and the fly swatters here in SC.  All of the regional pride and greatness, if it exists and we can afford it, has little bearing on anything as we all have different environments.  

Please do not stir up any interest of me posting anywhere else.  If I never post again on any site it will not mean more or less to me.  I greatly appreciate the years that Larry wrote and talked and schooled me, there have been friendships made along the way, there are folks who I have figured out will not be writing any sympathy cards when I meet the day of earthly death but it takes all kinds.  But for all of you who know me or knew me or wish you had never heard of me, a very sincere "Thank You".  You've encouraged, you've befriended, you've argued, you've educated, you've hardened my goal and my focus and put some "stuff" in my shadow.  You've done great.  Life is not about what we get but what we give or share. I hope I have helped some, too.

Eddie I agree that is a revealing picture, the way the sun brings out your features with such stark contrast...

I've been learning from your posts for close to 10 years now and it was a privilege to finally meet you at last years Gathering.

I appreciate when you do find the time to share your thoughts and experience.

Thanks again.

Hilly
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: The Near Perfect Cow   Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:08 am

I too have enjoyed your posts over the years Eddie. I'm maybe in a similar place to you in some ways - working with an inconsequential gene pool in the big picture of things. Have set my course, made the initial selections and am now patiently growing the population allowing nature to tailer the selection to the (new) environment within the constraints of a system that still has to be economically viable. Nothing exciting, earth-shattering or record breaking but I'm watching the results with a quiet satisfaction. It certainly seems that we won't run out of variation any time soon in our tight gene pool as they still aren't the same colour yet! Although we have lots of variation it does seem increasingly to be constrained within certain parameters and it's interesting to see similarities pop up in different places - a heifer that doesn't look very much like her dam but almost identical to the dam's sister.

Acceptance of our genetics by our customers has exceeded my expectations - most of the benefit to them has been derived from capitalizing on the hybrid vigor in a cross-breeding system rather than any great genetic value in my cattle per se. One thing I like about our breeding/rearing/selling system is it keeps the "undesirables" away - I have no interest in dealing with guys looking for $50,000 miracle bulls.

I understand better now the talk of the "road less travelled" but I always have enjoyed quiet backroads versus busy highways and i'll keep plodding along. It's been a great journey with LL as the inspiration and guiding light and MK as facilitator and motivator. To all that have posted here and contributed to the education, enlightenment and entertainment thank you so much.  cheers
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: The Near Perfect Cow   Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:06 am

the principles of the successful breeder are exceedingly simple...he isolates and fixes a good type...the difficulty is in keeping it simple...if after seven years, we`re still discussing "how do" we`ve made it way too complicated...Bakewell, LL, Lents, Meitler , Bob Howard had/have no magic formula ,
there comes a time when you stop talking, breed the parts, and sell the concept... instead we talk it to death on a computer, or meet face to face and talk it all over again...
talk is cheap, and though it aint free, its easy...work is the only thing that ever accomplished anything, but a man who fails to move anything has done no work according to the formula...that's the bottom line here, and why the end is near...
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: The Near Perfect Cow   Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:06 pm

Quote :
One thing I like about our breeding/rearing/selling system is it keeps the "undesirables" away - I have no interest in dealing with guys looking for $50,000 miracle bulls.
I could build up an immunity enough to tolerate one or two a year! Laughing

Quote :
the principles of the successful breeder are exceedingly simple...he isolates and fixes a good type...the difficulty is in keeping it simple...if after seven years, we`re still discussing "how do" we`ve made it way too complicated...Bakewell, LL, Lents, Meitler , Bob Howard had/have no magic formula ,
there comes a time when you stop talking, breed the parts, and sell the concept... instead we talk it to death on a computer, or meet face to face and talk it all over again...
talk is cheap, and though it aint free, its easy...work is the only thing that ever accomplished anything, but a man who fails to move anything has done no work according to the formula...that's the bottom line here, and why the end is near...

I know few successful breeders. Something must be wrong in the formula. Or I define success differently. Or I define breeding differently. I treasure the conversations with the few and try to help a few wanna be's as I help myself get a grip of something that I missed along the way. I am a slow learner but the turtle won the race so I have hope.

If the greats of livestock breeding, whatever fence post(s) or person where you hang your hat, had not talked, written, drawn. pictured or taught what they did - we would be folks with blank slates. So, if the right folks talk or write, it is invaluable. Granted, there is a high cull rate on words. But their words did not come cheap or easy, as any of ours have not, because there are trials, failures, success; scars if you will, to give us experience to talk and to build.

I think we have long been over the "How to". We or I, specifically, discuss the "what is" or the "now what?". When other folks share their "what is", I like to hear about it especially if they and I define success and breeding alike or close enough.

And how we deal with others can vary. All sort of definitions or views of other folks exist. They can be stepping stones to let us get ahead, and that is pretty ugly and lonely, or they can be friends which nobody, even the funny dressing guys on Antique Roadshow with the accents or high tensile mustaches, cannot place a value on those friendships. Real friendships are as rare as the successful breeders. They are treasures. So, talking here with friends and fellow travelers; I never count it cheap or easy. It is a treasure of life.
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PostSubject: Re: The Near Perfect Cow   Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:42 am

I guess if we can't get them to "come and see ", we need a place to "show and tell "...good points, carry on...FYI , the audience is small...really small...select maybe? Smile
Who were, are the great breeders?
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: The Near Perfect Cow   Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:29 am

MKeeney wrote:
I guess if we can't get them to "come and see ", we need a place to "show and tell "...good points, carry on...FYI , the audience is small...really small...select maybe? Smile
Who were, are the great breeders?
Good question. I will try to reason it out and give someone or someone(s) as examples and some reasons. Any list or any definition I would use will not include mere replicators of other's work or flip and flop outcrossing. Those fall into the division of producers of products and not any sort of breeding for a foundational purpose.
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PostSubject: Re: The Near Perfect Cow   Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:20 am

I believe great breeders might be more fable than the rabbit and the hare. ..I dont think anyone ruined more fables than LL....great breeders and great cows, larry the polar opposite of tom burke...who won?
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: The Near Perfect Cow   Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:43 pm

MKeeney wrote:
I believe great breeders might be more fable than the rabbit and the hare. ..I dont think anyone ruined more fables than LL....great breeders and great cows, larry the polar opposite of tom burke...who won?

If winning is looking back at your life and hoping that you did well, I would say Larry won. Tom just shuffled money around and has collections of books and pictures. Larry bred cattle for his dream and his target and also used himself as an open book to teach us. I am grateful for his efforts.

When we say "great breeders", I will qualify such random naming and ranking with this observation. Many breeders showed greatness until they peaked in their work. Few got by without being sidetracked, chasing the rabbit or the tortoise, finding that the selection for some purpose ended up with animals more suited for another purpose. And there were levels of promotion in breeding animals when the promotion ran ahead of results.

My opinions:

Lingle peaked prior to Francis and Conan. Was his peak impressive? Some say yea and some say nay. But his promotion and current Wye efforts get an A+ on promotion.

Clark? I do not know due to my ignorance of his animals.

Bakewell did fine, was ahead of his time and gave us principles. It has been a while since I read his stuff or his story but seems that he ended differently or lower than his peak. It might have been a financial issue.

It is mere opinion from seeing environmental fit and function here in our area, but , again, my opinion, Corbin peaked somewhere around the Emulous Bob of K Pride era. To me, some of the later Corbinaires looked different from Angus. Cow function fell off and bulls became two dimensional so that function was poor.

Bill Graham left a mark but peaked prior to picking extreme internal outliers for mature size, growth and/or milk. The last decade or two was not a loss of peak but a death spiral and nose dive to the end.

Dr. Bonsma had a profound ability to select type yet I still have not fully understood his issue of bring in new animals after proper function and type was achieved. For his environment in his homeland, he probably helped more people raise more pounds and eat better than if he had not perfected his work. I have to hand it to him that his efforts, even in crossbreeding and out-crossing to get to the goal, worked.

A Texan who died this year, Mr. Clinton Hodges, was a breeder of sheep whom I admired, appreciated his help and I especially appreciated his sincere regret that he let a population of "pure" sheep slip away before he knew the quality he had lost. He and his family did great things and still do but I think about him quite a bit. He wished the bird was back in the cage, so to speak.

Few, like Paul, can say that they ran the race and finished the course and kept the faith because the unexpected occurred, the fads got the better of them or they forgot what they started out to do, money became an object, finances did not hold up, they missed their buddies, the kids took over, genetics went the opposite way of plans or they forgot which girl (cow) they brought to the dance.

No need to mention the living: we're still not sure if we have peaked, are climbing or falling or if we will keep the "cow faith" or "sheep faith".

But in naming a few we miss the big picture of the small farms over the years that have made livestock of all species work with less inputs, with probably a bit of inbreeding due to keeping a good male around a bit too long, a preference for a type and such. Great breeders do not have to be known publicly to be successful. Like Barnie Fie and his sidearm, he "let this little baby do my talking for me". The small and unknown breeders have let their herds and flocks do their best without fanfare and their results spoke all that was needed to be said.

All opinions at no costs and a money back guarantee.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: The Near Perfect Cow   Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:40 pm

Anyone ever breed a herd of cattle the industry couldn't do without? For that matter, a single bull you couldn't do without using?
Larry had great ideas, but they evolved over time, modified by reality. ...to expan on those ideas would take at least a 1000 hd or more of cows in a coordinated program...not going to happen with this group, maybe Bob or Hilly will do it all by themselves someday...
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pukerimu



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PostSubject: Re: The Near Perfect Cow   Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:15 pm

The greatest talent a cattle breeder has is their objectivity - lose that and it all goes to pieces very quickly - an animal is not good just because someone tells you so. It is not good just because the mother is a good cow and you put much thought into who the sire is. It is not good just because it has your stud prefix. It is not good just because you spent a small fortune on it's sire or the semen. And it is especially not good just because it has numbers to "prove it so" - do not get me wrong - an animal may in fact be fantastic because of or in spite of any one of these things but it may also be horrible - a true cattleman/woman will recognise it for that and deal with it appropriately.

Too often animals with poor muscle expression, no fat to speak off, poor conformation and dreadful heads and jaws are touted as the b and end all of cattle breeding for one or many of the above reasons. The people for whom you are breeding your cattle (apart from yourselves) are the ones whose opinion and breeding goals count - we have just seen a 110 year old stud disintegrate, self destruct over here - poor decision making was key but the biggest factor was a complete and utter lack of objectivity. If they had stuck to their knitting they would still have a good herd of cows and a happy clientele.
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: The Near Perfect Cow   Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:21 pm

MKeeney wrote:
Anyone ever breed a herd of cattle the industry couldn't do without? For that matter, a single bull you couldn't do without using?
Larry had great ideas,  but they evolved over time, modified by reality. ...to expan on those ideas would take at least a 1000 hd or more of cows in a coordinated program...not going to happen with this group, maybe Bob or Hilly will do it all by themselves someday...
1000 head seems big-ly impossible. Not sure that a huge number is the answer to anything other than starting off by stopping. Larry evolved because his experiences guided his future decisions? Bad/weakness or just more experienced?

Success to me is not industry acceptance. The only bull one could not go without using is the bull used to start a successful linebreeding effort or the outcross bull that resets a line in the right path. That would be different for each individual.
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PostSubject: Re: The Near Perfect Cow   Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:50 am

Industry acceptance is paramount to me...the primary intention of the iniative of this failed forum...
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: The Near Perfect Cow   Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:59 am

MKeeney wrote:
Industry acceptance is paramount to me...the primary intention of the iniative of this failed forum...

For anyone who reads:

So, who in breeding stock industry or terminal side, do you seek for acceptance?  Are your cattle big enough to fit the new industry acceptance of Iowan housed marbling mammoths, small enough to be corrector cattle like farao, a type that merely looks good to order buyers, cattle that are black enough to possibly earn CAB premiums or what is terminal enough about your end goal of the breeding program for market acceptance?  "Industry acceptance" has the smell of Terminal to me.  Are your cattle terminal cattle?  Or terminal-enough?  You might skip the onset of fads by not registering cattle but the industry merely lags a few years behind in expressing, docking, paying premiums or chasing the same fads.

Games and seasons are won by consistently making the first downs and not by the few hail Mary passes of each season.  Those continual 10 yard challenges are the fertility of the herd or flock and not the terminal touchdown.  What's are the grunt yards worth in returned dollar value? Something like 10:1?  Pretty good odds in football or livestock breeding when dollars are involved.  I see a disconnect to terminal there.

I tend to believe, mainly from dealing with sheep but also from cows, that the need for players to play both offense and defense will hamper a team and the need for cattle or sheep to "do it all" is a mental hindrance of breeding lines or flocks. $2400 is a nice touchdown for a big, prime CAB carcass unless the fertility rate back down on the farm is minimal and it took superior and excessive forage and fertilization to get the calf ready for the yards.  (Side note: who gets the mullah, as in trickle down?)

The sheep we have are good sheep for the environment but are not a terminal type.  They can do what other sheep can never do with no worming, pasture lambing, no shearing, good health, excellent commercial crosses, ethnic acceptance, forage utilization and such.  But I tell folks almost daily if not weekly that the feather in the cap of the breed would be a widespread use of the best of the breed to create commercial F1's and let commercial breeders do less to make more.  The end game in my view is not more purebred sheep but the industrial use of superior crossbreed ewes.

"Industry acceptance" has been a mantra for so much for so long that it now engulfs the gamete of all things livestock.  The phrase has promoted EPDs and genetic testing, sold ABS and Select Sires semen, ran sale prices up and so much more including changing breeds.  Own them until they hang and grade and make the big bucks.  Big enough, fat enough, too fat, too small, too big, marbling, gain rate and on and on is the moving target and each time a reason to cull your animals or pay you less while "industry" just keeps on trucking.

We have different thoughts.
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PostSubject: Re: The Near Perfect Cow   Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:53 am

All this time, and not a clue what truline's base premise is...
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: The Near Perfect Cow   Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:10 am

Industry acceptance of what? structured Truline type breeding systems or market acceptance of the cattle themselves?
I think it would be good for the overall cattle industry if there was acceptance of the former. Market acceptance of the cattle produced is a different matter - sure the terminal product produced must fit the market requirements but the maternal or too inbred byproducts of producing the seedstock that form part of the crossbreeding system might not. We don't want to make the mistake of selecting our breeding stock in the image of the finished terminal product or we may as well stick with the mainstream.

As a side note I hate the term "cattle industry" and most things associated with it. To me it symbolizes the screwing over that cattle producers, farmers or ranchers historically get once the cattle leave the farm/ranch/feedlot. That "industry" is the meat industry - the packers and the retailers who make real money while the cattle producer is left with the table scraps. Yet these entities weasel their way under the umbrella of the "cattle industry" so they can have the cattle producers pay to market the beef they sell through a levy on every head of cattle sold.
A steel manufacturer in Detroit or South Korea doesn't pay a levy to Ford Motor company to fund the advertising of Ford cars so why is it accepted that ranchers or feedlot owners pay to advertise beef when they sell live cattle not beef?
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Hilly



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PostSubject: Re: The Near Perfect Cow   Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:31 am

I have come to accept that Individuals are unique and thats a good thing in both people and cattle, the frustrating conundrum to me is my “human nature” (whatever that is) seems to crave conformity and affirmation of others that cannot possibly see things the same as me... every individual is looking through their own personal kaleidoscope of life experiences.

With that in mind the concept of growing our own individual circles of influence by remaining focused on what we each have control over and not wasting time and energy on what we as individuals cannot control will more efficiently grow our own circle. The synergy comes from the interdependence in the overlap of these circles but keeping in mind the outer edges get their reach in the differences, at least in my mind.

Here at KC we have found some common ground in the overlapping, how big that combined circle gets will change most efficiently in my mind by each individual remaining focused on their own while realizing at the same time that our differences allow the growth, not all circles of influence will be the same size but they all add to the whole.

The question I have is what is “progress”? Its a question that haunts me and I find myself increasingly sceptical of people who claim to be making it.
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: The Near Perfect Cow   Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:14 pm

MKeeney wrote:
All this time, and not a clue what truline's base premise is...

Embarrassing, isn't it! Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: The Near Perfect Cow   Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:30 pm

Grassfarmer wrote:
Industry acceptance of what?  structured Truline type breeding systems or market acceptance of the cattle themselves?
I think it would be good for the overall cattle industry if there was acceptance of the former. Market acceptance of the cattle produced is a different matter - sure the terminal product produced must fit the market requirements but the maternal or too inbred byproducts of producing the seedstock that form part of the crossbreeding system might not. We don't want to make the mistake of selecting our breeding stock in the image of the finished terminal product or we may as well stick with the mainstream.

As a side note I hate the term "cattle industry" and most things associated with it. To me it symbolizes the screwing over that cattle producers, farmers or ranchers historically get once the cattle leave the farm/ranch/feedlot. That "industry" is the meat industry - the packers and the retailers who make real money while the cattle producer is left with the table scraps. Yet these entities weasel their way under the umbrella of the "cattle industry" so they can have the cattle producers pay to market the beef they sell through a levy on every head of cattle sold.
A steel manufacturer in Detroit or South Korea doesn't pay a levy to Ford Motor company to fund the advertising of Ford cars so why is it accepted that ranchers or feedlot owners pay to advertise beef when they sell live cattle not beef?

Yea, what he said. Idea I know that all livestock are going to be products in the end but the function of breeding maternal lines for final linecrosses is not "industry acceptance". It is environmental function and usefulness on the female side.

Industry accepted lambs in USA: finish at 140 pounds. Lamb in the supermarket that consumers want: 55 to 65 pound imported lamb. Disconnect: industry pays others and has meetings each year to study how to increase US market share.

Avoid injection blemishes in calves is real important to the "cattle industry". My return so far? Zero. Vaccinate properly. My return so far? Zero. Improve mineral status for less sickness in the yards. My return so far? Zero. Avoid brusing. My return so far? Zero. Sounds like government program to help the poor that end up paying the people who are to provide the help but only get pennies on the dollar to the targeted recipients. The undefined "cattle industry" is a leech. I take that back: they are head lice as they stay on top and suck the blood of all below.
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PostSubject: Re: The Near Perfect Cow   Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:23 am

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1400541026659925&id=100001121223406
Competition is a relentless adversary...there are more pleasing sports to be a spectator in than the cattle industry..
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PostSubject: Re: The Near Perfect Cow   Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:28 pm

too funny...showing the complete irrelevance of the registered societies to the commercial "cattle industry"...

I guess it comes down to this, do you believe in breed standards for registration or not?

regarding white

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=The+Bud+Barney+Fife+Nip+It+Nip+It+In&&view=detail&mid=A53291E5A560CE94963CA53291E5A560CE94963C&FORM=VRDGAR
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PostSubject: Re: The Near Perfect Cow   Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:58 pm

Grassfarmer wrote:
Industry acceptance of what?  structured Truline type breeding systems or market acceptance of the cattle themselves?
I think it would be good for the overall cattle industry if there was acceptance of the former. Market acceptance of the cattle produced is a different matter - sure the terminal product produced must fit the market requirements but the maternal or too inbred byproducts of producing the seedstock that form part of the crossbreeding system might not. We don't want to make the mistake of selecting our breeding stock in the image of the finished terminal product or we may as well stick with the mainstream.

As a side note I hate the term "cattle industry" and most things associated with it. To me it symbolizes the screwing over that cattle producers, farmers or ranchers historically get once the cattle leave the farm/ranch/feedlot. That "industry" is the meat industry - the packers and the retailers who make real money while the cattle producer is left with the table scraps. Yet these entities weasel their way under the umbrella of the "cattle industry" so they can have the cattle producers pay to market the beef they sell through a levy on every head of cattle sold.
A steel manufacturer in Detroit or South Korea doesn't pay a levy to Ford Motor company to fund the advertising of Ford cars so why is it accepted that ranchers or feedlot owners pay to advertise beef when they sell live cattle not beef?

Industry acceptance of what?
of course,
structured Truline type breeding systems
though a first step would be to simply partition maternal from terminal...
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pukerimu



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PostSubject: Re: The Near Perfect Cow   Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:12 am

How about industry acceptance of "good cattle" bred by good people who know what they are doing - rather than industry acceptance of the next greatest thing, hype and hyperbole, fads and fashions?
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PostSubject: Re: The Near Perfect Cow   Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:27 am

pukerimu wrote:
How about industry acceptance of "good cattle" bred by good people who know what they are doing - rather than
industry acceptance of the next greatest thing, hype and hyperbole, fads and fashions?

no way: humans aren`t wired that way...actually, the industry "accepts" all cattle , just at different prices...what you and I and others want
is our cattle or our "way" to be BEST...you and I are miles apart about what is "best", I wouldn`t give $10,000 for any bull living, and don`t measure a bull or herd`s genetic worth by what they bring in a world of the current or next greatest thing, hype and hyperbole, fads and fashions, ...all discussed and archived here...
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PostSubject: Re: The Near Perfect Cow   Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:32 am

from reflections...
"The single primary purpose of a purebred is to increase consistency and most importantly REPEATABILITY while trying to refine a functional type". Do you mind if I quote you on that? It really hit home to me. The other quote was " stabilization is the road to improving consistency for every segment without the expense to another".
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PostSubject: Re: The Near Perfect Cow   Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:34 am

Born in the USA...

from advantage

In a given year period, at two area stockyards Iowa SD boarder, there are over 2,500 quality phenotypic reg bulls raised as breeding stock prospects...ai, et, invetro, huge feed costs, critter pampering, with hopes of high dollar rewards to eventually be sold by the pound to the frugal commercial producer waiting to reap the reward of impoverished marketing...current recent trend is under .90...those two salebarns will move more bulls to commercial producers than near all seedstock sales in a 4 state corner connect

From KY craigslist

Bulls! Bulls! Bulls! Windrift Angus Premier Breeder, AI 33 years, Stout Yearlings by Capitalist, Butkus, Top Hand, Anticipation, Payweight. Rugged ready to breed, Fertility tested, We breed for low birth weight, Moderate framed cows, weaning weights 600-700 lbs and yearling weights 1250-1350 lbs, these are sharp bulls! $1700 Windrift Angus


THE BIGGEST THING THESE BULLS ARE LACKING IS " hype and hyperbole" ? probably...so while the young guy can compete with farao , he must also compete with this...and that`s pretty damn tough...

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The Near Perfect Cow
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