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 2014 Great Plains Gathering

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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Great Plains Gathering   Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:17 pm

larkota wrote:
MKeeney wrote:



my thoughts are the greens may be superior production stock to either "parent lines" {yellow and blue} that create the greens when crossed...

may be superior sounds like registurd B.S.   old habits are hard to break.

not BS of any kind ; everything is superior to something; that`s the balance of nature...in this case, history has usually shown the  crosses  superior to the more pure parents in many facets of production..
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larkota



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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Great Plains Gathering   Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:14 am

MKeeney wrote:
larkota wrote:
MKeeney wrote:



my thoughts are the greens may be superior production stock to either "parent lines" {yellow and blue} that create the greens when crossed...

may be superior sounds like registurd B.S.   old habits are hard to break.

not BS of any kind ; everything is superior to something; that`s the balance of nature...in this case, history has usually shown the  crosses  superior to the more pure parents in many facets of production..

I stand corrected, still fighting my past and present.  The concept of parent lines that create superior crosses is real, I have seen how TRU-LINE has worked for me.  What is great about the Gathering, is seeing how it is working for others and sharing ideas. Just don't know if my cattle are parent stock yet.... so for now I can live with good is good enough.

Larkota having maximum fun.


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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Great Plains Gathering   Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:17 am

where the line is drawn between parent stock and production stock is vague; {breeder discretion?} but the first step is recognizing there is a difference...if superior individual production was the best measure of parent stock, wouldn`t all parent stock be crossbreds?
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Great Plains Gathering   Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:48 pm

more "the sky will fall" someday...profit is never about the cow...though she be the greatest cost of production...because science can`t differentiate maternal value...

http://reputationfeedercattle.com/

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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Great Plains Gathering   Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:05 pm

larkota wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
larkota wrote:
MKeeney wrote:



my thoughts are the greens may be superior production stock to either "parent lines" {yellow and blue} that create the greens when crossed...

may be superior sounds like registurd B.S.   old habits are hard to break.

not BS of any kind ; everything is superior to something; that`s the balance of nature...in this case, history has usually shown the  crosses  superior to the more pure parents in many facets of production..

I stand corrected, still fighting my past and present.  The concept of parent lines that create superior crosses is real, I have seen how TRU-LINE has worked for me.  What is great about the Gathering, is seeing how it is working for others and sharing ideas.  Just don't know if my cattle are parent stock yet.... so for now I can live with good is good enough.

Larkota having maximum fun.

who scheduled the Great Plains Gathering? Shocked Very Happy  when we could have seen all this...I wonder where those 5 generation linebreds are?

The tour will feature
4th and 5th generations of line bred cattle.

·               Calves out of the new Genex sire Sitz Investment, the $192,000 Mogck Bullseye, the $42,000 Mogck Frontmann 114, the Accelerated Genetic's Mogck Sure Shot, and Select Sire's newest edition, MAF Tanker. Also see first sons and daughters of the $75,000 PA Fortitude 2500 (Genex) and numerous Power Tool daughters.

·               The Dam and daughters of Koupal’s B & B Identity 0020 will be showcased along with the Dam and progeny of Koupals B & B Ft Knox 2077, Dam of Koupal’s B & B Titan 3013 –2014 Top selling bull to Lindskov-Thiel Ranch, Dam of Koupal’s B & B Dante 2069, Daughters and progeny of Koupal’s B & B Extra 0011 and the Koupal’s B & B Endurance 202 sire and progeny.

·               Everyone will have the opportunity to evaluate the $120,000 Mohnen South Dakota 402 along with his outstanding progeny. Also on display will be the $160,000 Mohnen Impressive 1093, and calves by Long Haul, Long Distance, Sandhills, Harvestor, Sierra Cut, VAR Reserve and more.  

·               Numerous cows, bred heifers and top donors will be showcased.  

·               Come see and evaluate the 14-year-old Mohnen Jilt 910.

·               The dam of $55,000 Mogck Frontman 353 and Safeguard’s dam will be on display.

·               Koupal Ebonette 734 dam of Koupal Advance 28 and maternal brother Koupal Junction 037 will be on display. Progeny from Koupal Juneau 797 the sire of Koupal Advance 28, and Koupal Czech 158 will also be shown.

2014 South Dakota Angus Tour

Day 1 – Monday, Sept. 22
8:00 a.m.  Leave Ramada Inn, Mitchell, S.D.
8:30 to 10:30 a.m.  Moore Angus with guests Blacktop Farms, & Geppert Rock Creek Angus
11:00 to 11:45 a.m.  Callies Angus
12:15 to 2:15 p.m.  Bruns Angus
2:30 to 3:15 p.m.  Hyland Angus & Cotton Angus
4:00 to 4:45 p.m.  Buseman Angus
5:00 to 7:30 p.m.  JK Angus w/ guests Bussmus Angus, Carter Angus, Peterson Angus & Roth Angus (Supper, Program & Pay it Forward Auction)
8:15 to 8:30 p.m.  Buses will arrive back at Ramada Inn

Day 2 – Tuesday, Sept. 23
7:15 a.m.  Leave Ramada Inn, Mitchell, S.D.
8:00 to 10:00 a.m.  Mogck & Sons Angus with guest LaGrand Angus
10:15 to 11:00 a.m.  Mogck Angus Farms
11:45 a.m. to 1:45 p.m.  Koupal Angus with Koupal's B&B Angus
2:30 to 3:45 p.m.  Varilek Angus
4:30 to 6:30 p.m.  Mohnen Angus with guest Soulek Angus
7:15 to 7:30 p.m.  Buses arrive back to Ramada Inn

Angus means Business ###

if I saw something I liked, I couldn't afford it...good Angus must be damn scarce in SD to command those prices...THANK YOU Briann, for creating goodness in quantity so I can afford what I need to produce beef...I`ll take commercial profit and maximum fun over a con game any day...
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Great Plains Gathering   Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:34 pm

"Everyone will have the opportunity to evaluate the $120,000 Mohnen South Dakota 402 along with his outstanding progeny."

Wow, what an opportunity. But how would a person seeing an animal once, in someone else's herd "evaluate" him? - relative to what? a home raised bull or relative to the artificially inflated price he brought at an auction? Hasn't he been evaluated already with EPDs and such?
Or is simply a boasting exercise to boost selling their program? come gawp at this magnificent beast we paid $120,000 for and be impressed how much our cattle are "worth" (in the sale ring, if not in the real world)
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pukerimu



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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Great Plains Gathering   Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:15 pm

All of the above I would think Smile How much of the "Value" is real remains to be seen in 20 years or so when that bull's and all the other high priced bull's impact on the national and international herd is seen and felt - not much is my guess
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Great Plains Gathering   Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:32 pm

Grassfarmer wrote:
"Everyone will have the opportunity to evaluate the $120,000 Mohnen South Dakota 402 along with his outstanding progeny."

Wow, what an opportunity. But how would a person seeing an animal once, in someone else's herd "evaluate" him? - relative to what? a home raised bull or relative to the artificially inflated price he brought at an auction? Hasn't he been evaluated already with EPDs and such?
Or is simply a boasting exercise to boost selling their program? come gawp at this magnificent beast we paid $120,000 for and be impressed how much our cattle are "worth" (in the sale ring, if not in the real world)

Just check to be sure he is still breathing.
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mokroupa



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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Great Plains Gathering   Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:47 pm

This is right in my back yard, and i couldn't be less enthused about it. Bought a bull from a couple of these breeders in the past, weaned calves yesterday and the calves out of our herd bulls (600 lb ww) weigh the same as the calves out of the bulls we purchased (8-900 lb ww). I came up with a question I'd like to ask potential customers, Do you want to buy feed or buy bulls?
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Great Plains Gathering   Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:36 pm

mokroupa wrote:
This is right in my back yard, and i couldn't be less enthused about it.  Bought a bull from a couple of these breeders in the past, weaned calves yesterday and the calves out of our herd bulls (600 lb ww) weigh the same as the calves out of the bulls we purchased (8-900 lb ww).  I came up with a question I'd like to ask potential customers,  Do you want to buy feed or buy bulls?  

99% of them will buy the biggest bull in the pen every time. "I like 'em long and tall", "You can see what that one did" and on and on go the reasons: EPDs or no EPDs, papers or no papers, shared insights on the bull's background or not, your/my opinion or not. If the bulls in your or my pen are not "big enough" they will go somewhere else to get a "decent sized" one. And forget all reason and price limits when the bull has been at a test station and lived to be sold.

If the bull is expected to leave heifers in their herd, the only thing to do is show them your cows so that they can see what selection for more than WW or feed consumption looks like in the final packages. If they want strictly terminal I do not want to waste their time to look. So the quandary is, Do you feed the bulls no feed, some feed or a lot of feed? When is some good and another amount is too much? Or do you carry them out on grazing to an older age to let them get sized up?
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mokroupa



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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Great Plains Gathering   Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:24 pm

eddie,

Only one guy can buy the biggest bull in the pen, the other 99% bid on the rest. I really don't care about epd's, or papers. I'm just talking about functional cattle.

Our bulls are fed some feed, a grower ration. I think having cattle that are nutritionally balanced is a good thing. I don't want to starve them and I don't want them to look like fat cattle. My grandpas philosophy was that you can't starve a profit out of a cow. I would say for yearling bulls the quandary is, do they semen check by a vet (meaning good scrotal and highly concentrated) or do they fail? Many of the breeders in this area have left our vet because they felt he was picking on them when it came to semen checking.

The majority of our customers keep and calve all of their own replacement heifers, as well as feed out all of their steers. I'm not saying that our cattle do everything right, I just want to have cattle that do a lot of things well. Guys that want strictly terminal genetics in this area buy charolais or simmys, the only angus they have is their cows that they bought at the barn.

And why did we buy bulls from someone that feeds hard, I'd say it was a simple case of being "wet behind the ears"

When I ask the question, Do you want to buy feed, or buy bulls? I do it to get people thinking, and if it gets people thinking, the question paid off.
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Great Plains Gathering   Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:26 am

mokroupa wrote:
eddie,

Only one guy can buy the biggest bull in the pen, private treaty would be a single buyer at a time with a small herdthe other 99% bid on the rest.  I really don't care about epd's, or papers.  I'm just talking about functional cattle.Different buyers have different views/comfort levels.  No need for me to limit potential buyers.  Around here the bulls with no papers or discernible background are equally competitive with the bulls in the bull pen (bottom end and possibly culls) at the weekly stockyard sale.  But cattle all need to be functional: agreed.

Our bulls are fed some feed, a grower ration.  I think having cattle that are nutritionally balanced is a good thing.  Do you judge this by pounds gained per day?I don't want to starve them and I don't want them to look like fat cattle.  My grandpas philosophy was that you can't starve a profit out of a cow.  I agree and there is nothing as ugly and pitiful as a starved young bull.  I remember a couple of internet sale catalogs that came out about 6 or 7 years ago from the same outfit and the bulls looked like scarecrows.  What a waste and a shame.I would say for yearling bulls the quandary is, do they semen check by a vet (meaning good scrotal and highly concentrated) or do they fail?  Many of the breeders in this area have left our vet because they felt he was picking on them when it came to semen checking.

The majority of our customers keep and calve all of their own replacement heifers, as well as feed out all of their steers.  Letting them see the cows would be a benefit to them.I'm not saying that our cattle do everything right, I just want to have cattle that do a lot of things well.  Guys that want strictly terminal genetics in this area buy charolais or simmys, the only angus they have is their cows that they bought at the barn.

And why did we buy bulls from someone that feeds hard, I'd say it was a simple case of being "wet behind the ears"Fair enough.  Life is an on-going opportunity to try, learn and change.

When I ask the question, Do you want to buy feed, or buy bulls?  I do it to get people thinking, and if it gets people thinking, the question paid off.Thais is a discussion a friend and I have been having.  Any cost added to the bulls will be transferred to the buyers.  How much cost do they want to buy (feed, overhead and labor) plus the bull(s) is the breaking point.  Good points
.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Great Plains Gathering   Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:24 pm

the change of life at AAA that a few seem giddy about reads like the SOS to me...mk

Greetings,


As summer fades into fall, the temperatures begin to cool off and for me, and many of you, it means calving season. Arguably the most exciting time of the year for our operation, the planning, reconnaissance, arguing and head scratching that accompanies breeding season finally comes to fruition, with the possibilities of greatness (however you define it) and hope ripe in the air.
Fall is also an exciting time for Angus breeders as the sale season begins. The thrill and challenge of selecting new genetics, coupled with the opportunity to build a broader network of Angus friends and family, as you travel from sale to sale in search of your farm’s newest additions. I’ve personally been through several upcoming sale offerings, and there is a solid set of cattle with solid genetics up for sale in the coming months.
Glancing over the sale report portion of ANGUS.org, the season started out with a bang in Yukon, Okla., with Express Ranches selling 492 head averaging $11,325. Another banner day was in California, as Vintage Angus Ranch averaged $8,128 on 155 bulls in a drought- stricken region of the country. I’ve made a few stops through the local sale barns in Kentucky, and last week a load of steers (black and char-cross) 761 lbs brought $2.2975/lbs ($1748.40/head) and a 1,300-lbs cull cow, in average flesh, is worth well over $1,400 in Stanford, Ky. All this to say it’s a great time to be in the cattle business…and to be in the Angus business, that’s hard to put into words.
In my travels the biggest lesson I’m learning is that there are good cattle everywhere. No matter where I go or where each operation places its priorities, there are still good cattle in every herd. At the same time, there are areas of improvement for every herd as well. My encouragement to each of you would be, whatever you do, do it well; but don’t neglect the areas where your operation may need improvement. We have to be vigilant as we continue to improve our breed. Good cattle are always in demand. Yet good can always be better, and better can always be improved upon.
Hope to meet many of you at upcoming sales this season. As always, I welcome your emails and phone calls at any time. Buy Angus!


Take Care,


Alex Tolbert
Regional Manager
American Angus Association
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Great Plains Gathering   Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:29 am

... and they all lived happily ever after.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Great Plains Gathering   Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:56 pm

The thrill and challenge of selecting new genetics...

It was pretty thrilling last night riding through and pairing up some bulls with dam`s since the custom silage chopper can break down just the same as mine...not much of a challenge though; kinda fun guessing who is, might be, could be, could do, and finally knowing most any one will be ok...just ok, never great! cheers
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Kent Powell



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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Great Plains Gathering   Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:06 pm

EddieM wrote:
... and they all lived happily ever after.

No, someone will have to be punished if everyone doesn't agree.
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RobertMac



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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Great Plains Gathering   Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:49 am

Nothing like being on a merry-go-round and thinking you're going somewhere.
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pukerimu



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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Great Plains Gathering   Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:27 pm

Made only more tragic when those on the said merry go round think their horse is fastest, they are leading the pack or worse winning the race .........................
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Great Plains Gathering   Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:46 pm

and the music never changes ... Smile
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Great Plains Gathering   Mon Sep 22, 2014 7:20 am

an instant replay...different spot...

MKeeney wrote:

Quote:
I was thinking it would consist of more like 500 partial herds expecting about a 5% success rate over time



I don`t like those odds; maybe it wasn`t human nature that prevented Tru-Line formation; maybe it was satistics...but of course, 500 partial herds with a 5% success rate over 500 years would create a lot of good cattle but the same question arises, if it takes 95% milk to make the cream, who drinks the milk?


Geez Mike, now your asking me to explain my explanations. Smile In that stream where you go a fishing for time, I wondered if you spent those coupla hours you caught reading very slowly and thoroughly Kent's ENTIRE post, http://www.vbarvwagyu.com/article3-wagyu.htm . Did you also read between the lines, or, did you just skim through it? For those like CC who want "my reflections" to be a learning place, I'd suggest any serious minded cattle breeder spend more than a few hours not just reading, but digesting the content of that Wagyu website history to contemplate the effects over time of inbreeding, incrossing, outcrossing & crossbreeding; selection methodology to fix traits; and time. It is somewhat correlated to MK's concerns.

"Reflections by LL" is by no means a "how to" encyclopedia, it is simply a public chronology sharing my own learning process. I often use examples, quotes, statements or parables to compare common principles that can be applied to different situations. Some might consider it to be an educational process, hence I plagiarized Kendra's words and I apologize if they were taken out of context. I thought they were too worthy for only me to hear. Now MK wants me to correlate milk and cream with beef breeding. Smile MK's fishin' already taught him who drinks the milk and who makes the cream so I'll skip that and talk about his not liking the odds.

OK, first let's look at the odds of traditional methodology - of all the thousands of bulls born every year, of those hundreds that might be evaluated, how many end up in the "top" 5% of the breed in even just a single trait? If your fishin' to catch the biggest fish in the stream, the "cream of the crop", what percent is that of the ENTIRE crop? What percent get trophies? Wouldn't it be difficult to quantify or even be significant?

Of all the thousands or millions of cows alive today, what percent are chosen to be ET' cows? Of those chosen, what percent are successfully improving themselves?

After 200 years of traditional selection, compared to 500 years of traditional selection from now, what will be the percentage of "good cattle" then compared to now?

Oh, I almost forgot - MK, didn't you remember once we learned how to HOMOgenize milk, whoever drinks it gets an equal amount of cream....you've gotta quit reverting back, just pull the trigger Smile

LL wondering when genuine fair value exchange will be our first consideration
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Great Plains Gathering   Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:14 pm

good things do come to those who ...not just wait; but breed and wait...seems like I`ve been trying too hard to make it happen; instead of just letting it happen...anyway, it`s happening cheers
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Great Plains Gathering   Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:38 am

Heaven`s just a Gathering away...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBc9QUzi9_E

here`s to Amazing Grace   cheers
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Tom D
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Great Plains Gathering   Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:45 pm

Looks overgrazed and highly erodible, maybe Briann can bring his grass consultant along to help out.
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Great Plains Gathering   Mon Nov 03, 2014 7:43 pm



http://www.agcenter.com/newcattlereport.aspx
DAMAGE TO THE CUSTOM CATTLE FEEDING MODEL


The days are long gone when a commercial feedyard opened the doors and ranchers and farmers sent in cattle for custom feeding. The once dominant business model is a thing of the past. Running a feedyard like a hotel filling up every night with customers and maintaining a healthy margin for the service is not a model that can be expected to work in the current environment. Risk management for custom feedlots of the past involved deciding how much to mark up the feed. Selling feed to a feedyard full of customer cattle was a no brainer.

Today's model is much more complex requiring feedlot owners to take ownership positions in the cattle on hand and increasingly manage the risk associated with cattle ownership. Most feedyards today own a significant portion of the cattle on feed in their facilities. This has introduced varying strategies for managing the ownership and risk associated with gambling on cattle prices. The day of protecting the ownership risk with a fully hedged position is gone -- due primarily to excess feeding capacity and short feeder supplies.

New opportunities to deal with occupancy and risk have developed. Almost all the feedyards in Arizona and California feed dairy calves as do scattered yards in the plains. These cattle go on feed at 300# and sell at 1350# and are on feed more than a year. This reduces turnover and provides a very organized model of incoming and outgoing cattle for year round feeding.

A popular change with most feedyards is extending the finishing weight of cattle. Cattle targeted for 1250 or 1300# are now finishing at 1400-1450# allowing in some cases an extra $50 in margin for the cattle owner, assuming steady cattle prices, and a smaller turnover of cattle for the feedyard. The increase in carcass weights of close to 25#/head over last year, has replaced almost half of the lost tonnage from decreased numbers of cattle on feed. Heading into the winter and faced with weather risk and recently higher corn cost, this value proposition will change. Making cattle heavier and selling them cheaper in the future is not a sound strategy.

The need for cattle ownership has forced a pared back occupancy level at many feedyards. There are a number of feedyards across the plains operating at 50% of capacity. In order to prevent financial losses, some of those operations are increasing the mark up on the feed -- making the cattle performance non-competitive. This model will not work for the feedyard in the long run or the customer feeding the cattle in the short term,

Signs of rebuilding of the nation's cattle herd are everywhere. Improved pasture conditions are assisting a more rapid build up. Cow slaughter is down 15% while breeder heifer retention is up. Help is on the way for increasing the supplies of cattle necessary to support a thriving beef industry.






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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 Great Plains Gathering   Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:57 pm

found this interesting since we were there...

Minnesota grows about two-fifths of the nation’s crop, putting sugar from Peterson’s 7th Congressional District on almost every American plate.

Peterson’s district, about the size of South Carolina, has received almost $7 billion in farm subsidies since 1995, the sixth most of any district. That’s according to the Washington- based Environmental Working Group, which tracks the payments.
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