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Mark Day



Posts : 238
Join date : 2010-09-24
Age : 51
Location : Russellville, Ohio

PostSubject: Re: Economics and registered marketing   Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:29 am

I particularly enjoyed Seth Godin's blog post today, especially after reading the article by Les Anderson and then thinking about what the AA and other Mainstream cattle marketers try to tell us. Ultimately we are responsible for our own choices.

My Garmin gave me a route to the airport, but I had a hunch it was mistaken. So I
went my way.

As I turned left instead of right, I heard her voice hectoring me, beseeching me to
go right.

And I confess, I felt terrible. I was disobeying. Not following instructions.

If it's gotten to the point where we are uncomfortable disobeying a 3 inch by 4 inch
touchscreen, then you know we've been brainwashed. It's actually okay (in fact,
quite possibly productive) to call out the Garmins, the bosses and the influencers
in your life, and ignore them all you like.


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PostSubject: Re: Economics and registered marketing   Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:40 am

Mark Day wrote:
I particularly enjoyed Seth Godin's blog post today, especially after reading the article by Les Anderson and then thinking about what the AA and other Mainstream cattle marketers try to tell us. Ultimately we are responsible for our own choices.

My Garmin gave me a route to the airport, but I had a hunch it was mistaken. So I
went my way.

As I turned left instead of right, I heard her voice hectoring me, beseeching me to
go right.

And I confess, I felt terrible. I was disobeying. Not following instructions.

If it's gotten to the point where we are uncomfortable disobeying a 3 inch by 4 inch
touchscreen, then you know we've been brainwashed. It's actually okay (in fact,
quite possibly productive) to call out the Garmins, the bosses and the influencers
in your life, and ignore them all you like.



I like it Mark, got my dander up this mornin', gotta' be careful and still follow the signs though, well the stop sign at least.
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PostSubject: Re: Economics and registered marketing   Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:50 am

coffelt wrote:
[ 150 bulls involves selling to customers beyond friends and neighbors, anybody can sell 20 bulls to their friends at low prices.


Reminds me of my friends, neighbor,......they decided they would all get a $1000 dollars for Christmas, Jack gave Cody $1000, Cody gave Panzi a $1000, Panzi gave Wade a $1000, Wade gave Jack a $1000. Everybody won, except Kevin, they were afraid he would break the chain. In the end he was just as well off.

Life is Good

Bootheel
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Economics and registered marketing   Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:33 pm

Any economic outcome beyond commercial price is speculation; foolish speculation is the primary reason new registered members average life span is less than seven years ...prices beyond commercial price are usually based more on marketing than breeding...the selling of extremes is the same rarity con game no matter which end of the bell curve of production it comes from...



Bell curves and Rainbows have two ends, and in this foolish registered business, there`s a pot of gold at both ends....
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PostSubject: Re: Economics and registered marketing   Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:37 pm

MKeeney wrote:
Any economic outcome beyond commercial price is speculation; foolish speculation is the primary reason new registered members average life span is less than seven years ...prices beyond commercial price are usually based more on marketing than breeding...the selling of extremes is the same rarity con game no matter which end of the bell curve of production it comes from...



Bell curves and Rainbows have two ends, and in this foolish registered business, there`s a pot of gold at both ends....

Your gonna lose your ranch with that kind of thinkin', commercial values, oh despair
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jbob



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PostSubject: Re: Economics and registered marketing   Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:16 pm

If your business model outlines that you must produce a 2700$ average than you must have to make 2700$. I have a hard time believing that a sale average of anythings less than 2000$ is not worth your time. Anyone of us can sell bulls for under 2000$, but after about a year(unless you are debt free, than it may take a few more years) you will eventually be in debt. The banker will come knocking on your door, mother will need a new vehicle, Suzie will need braces, and Tommy will brake his arm a couple times while pricking around on his dirt bake. On top of this you will need tractor tires, pickup tires, fence supplies,fuel,hay,vet supplies. Unless you have another source of income, outside job,old famailly money coming in, I doubt very few of us can make it. Everyone has a break even price and if it is higher than your neighbor, best friend, brother,father, or chat room buddy you should not feel bad about it.

J.Bob Hould
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Hilly



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Location : Sylvan Lake, Alberta

PostSubject: Re: Economics and registered marketing   Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:42 pm

jbob wrote:
If your business model outlines that you must produce a 2700$ average than you must have to make 2700$. I have a hard time believing that a sale average of anythings less than 2000$ is not worth your time. Anyone of us can sell bulls for under 2000$, but after about a year(unless you are debt free, than it may take a few more years) you will eventually be in debt. The banker will come knocking on your door, mother will need a new vehicle, Suzie will need braces, and Tommy will brake his arm a couple times while pricking around on his dirt bake. On top of this you will need tractor tires, pickup tires, fence supplies,fuel,hay,vet supplies. Unless you have another source of income, outside job,old famailly money coming in, I doubt very few of us can make it. Everyone has a break even price and if it is higher than your neighbor, best friend, brother,father, or chat room buddy you should not feel bad about it.

J.Bob Hould

I agree everyone is entitled to their own break even... but if my bull/steer sale averaged $1500 at 16 months old, more than one bank would be knocking on my door... I’m just not sure I would want to share Wink
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: Economics and registered marketing   Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:44 pm

For some of us the reward in cattle breeding is not in meeting a business plan's target but in breeding better cattle. That's not to say we can't make money doing it - we bank $1250 a head on our direct marketed 17 month old grass-fed beefs, and keeping bulls through a second winter and selling them for $2200 makes us more money. For us and our customers that sum is "enough". I for one would rather sell 20 bulls to my friends at low prices than sell 200 at high prices to customers that are buying EPDs and looking for the "next great thing". Each to their own though.
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jbob



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PostSubject: Re: Economics and registered marketing   Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:19 pm

Grassfarmer I agree that you must enjoy what you are doing. But if what you are doing is losing you money it is useless and a terriable waste of time. if your breakeven is 1200$ but you only make 1100$ that never works. Also if someone wants to pay us 50,000$ for one of our bulls, are any of us going to stop the auction and say I only need 2200. Or send that buyer a check back for 47,800.00 and say thanks, but I do not need it. Hell no!! I am sure larry took his checks straight to the bank, just as everyone of us should. Back in the mid 90's I purchased HBR Omaha Clint for 70,000.00$ and I am 100% sure that that check got cashed. Is it too much money,absolutely. But none of us should feel guilty about hitting a good lick on occasion.

I am not trying to get things off center with this thread, but it is very hypicritcal for any one of us to beat down someone for trying to make money.

J.Bob Hould
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Economics and registered marketing   Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:04 am

jbob wrote:
If your business model outlines that you must produce a 2700$ average than you must have to make 2700$. I have a hard time believing that a sale average of anythings less than 2000$ is not worth your time. Anyone of us can sell bulls for under 2000$, but after about a year(unless you are debt free, than it may take a few more years) you will eventually be in debt. The banker will come knocking on your door, mother will need a new vehicle, Suzie will need braces, and Tommy will brake his arm a couple times while pricking around on his dirt bake. On top of this you will need tractor tires, pickup tires, fence supplies,fuel,hay,vet supplies. Unless you have another source of income, outside job,old famailly money coming in, I doubt very few of us can make it. Everyone has a break even price and if it is higher than your neighbor, best friend, brother,father, or chat room buddy you should not feel bad about it.

J.Bob Hould
if your breakeven is higher than your neighbor whose only livlihood is farming, you best adapt HIS business model AND his farming practices...and if you can`t make a living selling yearling bulls for $1500 {in 2010 dollars and cost}; that`s your problem...and I`m your problem too; because I can, have, and will continue to do so...Farming is all we`ve ever done here; and if someone broke their arm, it was falling out of a tobacco barn, because no one had time for or wasted money on a dirt bike...you might have suffered injury, a good ass kicking, if you mentioned such foolishness...
Dad and mom married with a $100 nest egg in 1945, dad nest egged the partnership farm account with $30,000 in 1976; and as John Bilieu once told me, "there ain`t been a damn year on this place since, that we haven`t saved some money...of course", John continued, "there were a lot of Friday nights we ate a jam sandwich"
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PostSubject: Re: Economics and registered marketing   Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:15 am

jbob wrote:
Grassfarmer I agree that you must enjoy what you are doing. But if what you are doing is losing you money it is useless and a terriable waste of time. if your breakeven is 1200$ but you only make 1100$ that never works. Also if someone wants to pay us 50,000$ for one of our bulls, are any of us going to stop the auction and say I only need 2200. Or send that buyer a check back for 47,800.00 and say thanks, but I do not need it. Hell no!! I am sure larry took his checks straight to the bank, just as everyone of us should. Back in the mid 90's I purchased HBR Omaha Clint for 70,000.00$ and I am 100% sure that that check got cashed. Is it too much money,absolutely. But none of us should feel guilty about hitting a good lick on occasion.

I am not trying to get things off center with this thread, but it is very hypicritcal for any one of us to beat down someone for trying to make money.

J.Bob Hould
hitting a good lick is the language of hucksters and lottery players, not cattle breeders...only a few elite hucksters have been able to continue hitting a lick at someone else`s expense for very long...but that opportunity is why AAA needs new members regularly...
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Angus 62



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PostSubject: Re: Economics and registered marketing   Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:06 am

I sat on the BOD of a regional bull test for quite a few years. It was a valuable education that repeatedly pointed out the foolishness behind a large part of the registered business. Calving ease division bulls would always bring 500-1000 dollars more then bulls with a few pounds extra birth weight or .1 or .2 added birth weight EPD. Talk about being ripe for a scam. Of course that led to many fire and ice matings where the biggest cows were bred to the lowest BW EPD bulls available. You had bulls ruined by trying to make them index long before they they went on feed. Eventually a $8000 advertising budget struggled to sell fifty bulls a year- with a good many of them at floor price.

Those bulls were measured and indexed, registered and complete Epd's available. In the end the breeders reputation sold the bulls and had zero to do with EPD's and only performance to the degree it determined where you sold in the sale and if you sold.
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PostSubject: Re: Economics and registered marketing   Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:14 am

Maybe a good placed to start is with nothing and a "town job." Start only with what you can afford to with what you have. Definately will look at things with a new perspective. Will also be forced to look at what genetic attributes are vital and necessary. Didn't even Kit tell about How he started his first sale withjust 5 bulls? Keep your town job until it costs you more to be there than it does with your cows. One of the things that really tickles me is the people that say they are full time cattlemen as they are pulling their 12 row planters down the road. To me that makes them part time farmers and part time cattle people, since they do both, but I am an odd duck. Then again if the cattle people will take a look at the farmers they will also se that the majority if farmers do not own all of the acres they farm, they rent a good portion of it. Maybe instead of having to own the acres we graze we should increase our personal and professional skills to rent more. Then, as Alan Nation says, use only your profits (money already generated) to purchase land with. Of course, for most I am not telling them anything new. There is nothing that says a person has to run a minimum of 500 cows. If so, I haven't stumbled upon it.

Aplle computers didnt start with 100 employees. Ford Motor Company started in Henry Ford's kitchen. The capital that Philip Armour used to start his business litterally came from digging ditches.

To quote one if my best friends, "then again, what do I know?"
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Mark Day



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PostSubject: Re: Economics and registered marketing   Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:12 am

From Seth's blog today. I know most mainstream cattle pushers do not follow this marketing advice but a few on here do.

Raising expectations (and then dashing them)

Have you noticed how upbeat the ads for airlines and banks are?

Judging from the billboards and the newspaper ads, you might be led to believe that Delta is actually a better airline, one that cares. Or that your bank has flexible people eager to bend the rules to help you succeed.

At one level, this is good advertising, because it tells a story that resonates. We want Delta to be the airline it says it is, and so we give them a try.

The problem is this: ads like this actually decrease user satisfaction. If the ad leads to expect one thing and we don't get it, we're more disappointed than if we had gone in with no real expectations at all. Why this matters: if word of mouth is the real advertising, then what you've done is use old-school ad techniques to actually undercut any chance you have to generate new-school results.

So much better to invest that same money in delighting and embracing the customers you already have.



[b]
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RobertMac



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PostSubject: Re: Economics and registered marketing   Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:32 am

I've only been farming/ranching for a little over 30 years, but I've never seen the value of land reflect what the net income from ag production can pay...buying land has been an investment. We started by renting all our farm land and got into a position to invest 15 years later.

I've read Allan Nation's "Knowledge Rich Ranching"(and other books by him) and, no, he is not a rancher, but grew up on a ranch about 10 miles from where I grew up in the middle of the Mississippi Delta. Much of his resources for his writings is from real world cattle people. I like reading his work because it makes me think and am reading his latest SGF now. Because someone is not a rancher doesn't disqualify his ideas anymore than being a PhD makes one's ideas(research) facts. His writing is 'outside the box' and I would thought it appealing to many here that are 'outside the box' thinkers. Nature is going to be the final arbiter of what works for each of us.

Raising cattle that can pay their way at commercial prices(and some extra) will be of value to commercial bull buyers...(whether they know it or not).

"you're never going to get rich ranching. If you're not in it for the life style you should do something else".
Jack, agree, but we can accumulate assets.Very Happy
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Economics and registered marketing   Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:33 am

Quote :
While we were waiting for cows to come for cake he told me once that he could have bought all the land I could see for .50 an acre. Twenty years later he could have bought it for a $1.00 an acre. It wouldn't pencil but if I had bought it then he said, "I would be a rich man today".

my dad had the best answer to all the land that sold around us that he coulda, shoulda, woulda bought...He said if people that had the money to buy it did not, why was he supposed to have been smart enough to borrow the money and buy it...and just like cows are just cows, when you come to the end of your life, money is just money... Smile
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Hilly



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PostSubject: Re: Economics and registered marketing   Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:15 am

dwight@steadfastbeef.com wrote:
One of the things that really tickles me is the people that say they are full time cattlemen as they are pulling their 12 row planters down the road. To me that makes them part time farmers and part time cattle people, since they do both, but I am an odd duck. Then again if the cattle people will take a look at the farmers they will also se that the majority if farmers do not own all of the acres they farm, they rent a good portion of it. Maybe instead of having to own the acres we graze we should increase our personal and professional skills to rent more. Then, as Alan Nation says, use only your profits (money already generated) to purchase land with. Of course, for most I am not telling them anything new. There is nothing that says a person has to run a minimum of 500 cows. If so, I haven't stumbled upon it.

Here I had always considered myself a full time farmer never realized the grain farmer seen me as a part time cattleman Smile

The inheritance excuse for success or lack of... bothers me a bit, my brother started out a year and a half ago on his own full time farming... with no owned land all rented, a few cows and a family of 6 to support, he is busy expanding his business and I have confidence that he will succeed.

As far as buying land we have been told by more than one expert that we should invest our money elsewhere and of course we calculate opportunity cost in any decision we make. I have yet to find a better investment for a farmer than land as it is relatively low risk, easy to keep track of, actually exists, adds to the opportunity of my kids wanting to farm as they can see and grow to appreciate the value of equity.

Over and over I hear how most full time farmers or cowmen only have that privilege because it was handed down to them. For me as a fourth generation farmer, from my perspective, beg to differ on this point. In my experience and past family conflicts and splits anytime someone receives something for nothing it is a handicap for at the very least monetary success.

It is for that reason we are looking into the feasibility of a family land trust for inherited lands that should not be sold but under extenuating circumstance and only be borrowed against if the proposed business plan is ratified by business orientated board and then passed by the family. Any land purchased by my company and paid for by it could be added to the trust if we so chose. The idea is to utilize the equity to help future generation succeed in being content with enough.

I don’t want to hijack this thread and should start a new one but discussing succession planning is worse than watching paint dry and has little interest in my experience... but it would appear to be something we will all have to face at some point and I refuse to use insurance in my plan. I would be very interested in the unmainstream ideas this group is using to overcome the challenges of helping following generations live content lives... without getting too much into politics Wink
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: Economics and registered marketing   Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:50 pm

Quote :
Much of his resources for his writings is from real world cattle people. I like reading his work because it makes me think and am reading his latest SGF now. Because someone is not a rancher doesn't disqualify his ideas anymore than being a PhD makes one's ideas(research) facts. His writing is 'outside the box' and I would thought it appealing to many here that are 'outside the box' thinkers.

Alan highlights people with "unfair advantages". I have heard and seen more people start and stop a venture with a loss of money trying to imitate Poliface Farms than anything else, including chinchilla farming and frog ponds. Alan used to be against buying equipment. Then he got against buying land. Then he got in favor of doing both. But the main thing that you can build on with his writings is that if you are going to make the most from your ag products you're going to sell it in some manner other than commodity sales. His job is writing and finding subjects of his next articles.


Last edited by EddieM on Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: Economics and registered marketing   Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:02 pm

Hilly wrote:
dwight@steadfastbeef.com wrote:
One of the things that really tickles me is the people that say they are full time cattlemen as they are pulling their 12 row planters down the road. To me that makes them part time farmers and part time cattle people, since they do both, but I am an odd duck. Then again if the cattle people will take a look at the farmers they will also se that the majority if farmers do not own all of the acres they farm, they rent a good portion of it. Maybe instead of having to own the acres we graze we should increase our personal and professional skills to rent more. Then, as Alan Nation says, use only your profits (money already generated) to purchase land with. Of course, for most I am not telling them anything new. There is nothing that says a person has to run a minimum of 500 cows. If so, I haven't stumbled upon it.

Here I had always considered myself a full time farmer never realized the grain farmer seen me as a part time cattleman Smile

The inheritance excuse for success or lack of... bothers me a bit, my brother started out a year and a half ago on his own full time farming... with no owned land all rented, a few cows and a family of 6 to support, he is busy expanding his business and I have confidence that he will succeed.

As far as buying land we have been told by more than one expert that we should invest our money elsewhere and of course we calculate opportunity cost in any decision we make. I have yet to find a better investment for a farmer than land as it is relatively low risk, easy to keep track of, actually exists, adds to the opportunity of my kids wanting to farm as they can see and grow to appreciate the value of equity.

Over and over I hear how most full time farmers or cowmen only have that privilege because it was handed down to them. For me as a fourth generation farmer, from my perspective, beg to differ on this point. In my experience and past family conflicts and splits anytime someone receives something for nothing it is a handicap for at the very least monetary success.

It is for that reason we are looking into the feasibility of a family land trust for inherited lands that should not be sold but under extenuating circumstance and only be borrowed against if the proposed business plan is ratified by business orientated board and then passed by the family. Any land purchased by my company and paid for by it could be added to the trust if we so chose. The idea is to utilize the equity to help future generation succeed in being content with enough.

I don’t want to hijack this thread and should start a new one but discussing succession planning is worse than watching paint dry and has little interest in my experience... but it would appear to be something we will all have to face at some point and I refuse to use insurance in my plan. I would be very interested in the unmainstream ideas this group is using to overcome the challenges of helping following generations live content lives... without getting too much into politics Wink
Good stuff...keep thinking out loud..right here...
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PostSubject: Re: Economics and registered marketing   Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:38 pm

Excellent discusion and tact today gentleman......Hilly and Jack, you tackled subject matter, that I chose to stay out of because I would have ceased to have been my happy-carefree self, congrats and good job. Hilly, do not be so quiet, you always bring something worthwhile.

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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: Economics and registered marketing   Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:01 pm

Hilly wrote:
dwight@steadfastbeef.com wrote:
One of the things that really tickles me is the people that say they are full time cattlemen as they are pulling their 12 row planters down the road. To me that makes them part time farmers and part time cattle people, since they do both, but I am an odd duck. Then again if the cattle people will take a look at the farmers they will also se that the majority if farmers do not own all of the acres they farm, they rent a good portion of it. Maybe instead of having to own the acres we graze we should increase our personal and professional skills to rent more. Then, as Alan Nation says, use only your profits (money already generated) to purchase land with. Of course, for most I am not telling them anything new. There is nothing that says a person has to run a minimum of 500 cows. If so, I haven't stumbled upon it.

Here I had always considered myself a full time farmer never realized the grain farmer seen me as a part time cattleman Smile

The inheritance excuse for success or lack of... bothers me a bit, my brother started out a year and a half ago on his own full time farming... with no owned land all rented, a few cows and a family of 6 to support, he is busy expanding his business and I have confidence that he will succeed.

As far as buying land we have been told by more than one expert that we should invest our money elsewhere and of course we calculate opportunity cost in any decision we make. I have yet to find a better investment for a farmer than land as it is relatively low risk, easy to keep track of, actually exists, adds to the opportunity of my kids wanting to farm as they can see and grow to appreciate the value of equity.

Over and over I hear how most full time farmers or cowmen only have that privilege because it was handed down to them. For me as a fourth generation farmer, from my perspective, beg to differ on this point. In my experience and past family conflicts and splits anytime someone receives something for nothing it is a handicap for at the very least monetary success.

It is for that reason we are looking into the feasibility of a family land trust for inherited lands that should not be sold but under extenuating circumstance and only be borrowed against if the proposed business plan is ratified by business orientated board and then passed by the family. Any land purchased by my company and paid for by it could be added to the trust if we so chose. The idea is to utilize the equity to help future generation succeed in being content with enough.

I don’t want to hijack this thread and should start a new one but discussing succession planning is worse than watching paint dry and has little interest in my experience... but it would appear to be something we will all have to face at some point and I refuse to use insurance in my plan. I would be very interested in the unmainstream ideas this group is using to overcome the challenges of helping following generations live content lives... without getting too much into politics Wink

I kinda resent the prejudices against those who inherited land too. I inherited the family farm property but like previous generations in our family consider I am only the custodian of it for future generations. I will have no problem passing it over to a successor in time if they want it. I think many new entrants view it differently because they build it piece by piece and consider the sale value as a return for all their efforts because so many agricultural operations only last a generation, or a few decades.

Like Hilly says inheritance isn't always a free ticket either - the guys that work for years for the parents and never receive a penny for wages, the ones that marry and rear kids under such conditions, the difficulty of the younger generation coming into the business and butting heads with the older generation. It can be fraught with stress and difficulty and I've seen many cases where the kids would have been far better off both mentally and financially if they had taken a job in town.

On another issue I enjoy reading Allan Nation too - he does write in a thought provoking manner. As EddieM points out he is never short of material because he is constantly changing his beliefs. I've read him long enough to have seen him on both sides of most issues which is OK if you accept it for what it is. I'd rather read someone like LL from whom the story never wavers because it is based on real life experiences.
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Mean Spirit



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PostSubject: Re: Economics and registered marketing   Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:06 pm

If "develops best on forage" means grows the most, then make no mistake-- it is definitely the same as any other gain test-- the big eaters will prevail, and the growthiest ones will produce the growthiest daughters, which will be bigger than the daughters of less growthy bulls. Nothing magic about forage. Basic biology.l

If develops best on forage means something else, well, what does it mean?
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PostSubject: Re: Economics and registered marketing   Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:46 pm

coffelt wrote:
MKeeney wrote:
coffelt wrote:
Keeney cattle in the Coffelt herd have the following ranges. In my opinion, I need EPD's to perform proper matings, especially for BW and $EN:

BW ranges from .8 to 3.8
Milk ranges from 6 to 21
$EN ranges from 6 to 34.43
YW ranges from 37 to 77

you bought two models; the first step to consistency would be to only buy one model.







Mike, I assume you are referring to Gridmaker offspring, excluding the couple I have left, the birthweight range shrank to .8 to 3.3, the $EN shrank to 12 to 34.43.

My point is the same
my point is the same as well; the first step to reducing variation would be not to buy it...the epds on the cattle from here would be such low accuracy to be virtually useless to breed with; but very imortant to the marketers of measures...21 milk? must be one of your Quillin/keeney/ Philgrim/gar/leachman 1407 bull sired heifers...
why would you worry about a 3 lb difference in birth weight? can have a 65 lb calf, but not a 68?
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PostSubject: Re: Economics and registered marketing   Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:55 pm

RobertMac wrote:
I've only been farming/ranching for a little over 30 years, but I've never seen the value of land reflect what the net income from ag production can pay...buying land has been an investment. We started by renting all our farm land and got into a position to invest 15 years later.

I've read Allan Nation's "Knowledge Rich Ranching"(and other books by him) and, no, he is not a rancher, but grew up on a ranch about 10 miles from where I grew up in the middle of the Mississippi Delta. Much of his resources for his writings is from real world cattle people. I like reading his work because it makes me think and am reading his latest SGF now. Because someone is not a rancher doesn't disqualify his ideas anymore than being a PhD makes one's ideas(research) facts. His writing is 'outside the box' and I would thought it appealing to many here that are 'outside the box' thinkers. Nature is going to be the final arbiter of what works for each of us.

Raising cattle that can pay their way at commercial prices(and some extra) will be of value to commercial bull buyers...(whether they know it or not).

"you're never going to get rich ranching. If you're not in it for the life style you should do something else".
Jack, agree, but we can accumulate assets.Very Happy

Couldn't agree more Robert. As a friend of mine put it, we live poor to die rich.
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PostSubject: Re: Economics and registered marketing   Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:15 pm

MKeeney wrote:
I want to touch on Coffelt`s description of the variation of the "Keeney cows" being huge...
James, can you walk through the cows and without looking at the tags or your papers; just the cows, tell me which half of the YW epd range a cow is in more often than the 50% chance? milk epd? there should be obvious phenotypic differences and adaptability issues since the variation is huge;

I know I sure couldn`t pick them out, and until the variation of numbers creates variation of phenotype I can see by eye, I won`t doing anything more than seeing, not to believe, but to know...






Perfect reason to measure; because you can't tell by looking at them.
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PostSubject: Re: Economics and registered marketing   

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Economics and registered marketing
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