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 temperature effect on calf BW

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MKeeney
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PostSubject: temperature effect on calf BW   Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:50 am

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Grassfarmer



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Location : Belmont, Manitoba, Canada

PostSubject: Re: temperature effect on calf BW   Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:34 am

It's a well established fact in the UK that the winter shorn ewes had heavier lamb weights attributed to the large increase in feed intake the ewe has as a result of having her fleece removed. Not too many guys did it - just some that housed their ewes all winter.

The increased bw of calves after cold winters is widely accepted in Canada. Got an article emailed recently speculating that we would see bulls with bigger bws for sale over the next two winters due to the weather we have had this winter. I replied by disagreeing, saying most purebred guys use magic scales that round down to 85lbs anyway  Very Happy 
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RobertMac



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Location : Mississippi, USA

PostSubject: Re: temperature effect on calf BW   Mon Mar 31, 2014 5:09 pm

Grassfarmer wrote:
It's a well established fact in the UK that the winter shorn ewes had heavier lamb weights attributed to the large increase in feed intake the ewe has as a result of having her fleece removed. Not too many guys did it - just some that housed their ewes all winter.

The increased bw of calves after cold winters is widely accepted in Canada. Got an article emailed recently speculating that we would see bulls with bigger bws for sale over the next two winters due to the weather we have had this winter. I replied by disagreeing, saying most purebred guys use magic scales that round down to 85lbs anyway  Very Happy 

And you asked me why it was stupid for me to register my cattle.
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: temperature effect on calf BW   Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:02 pm

Registering cattle needn't involve weighing calves either honestly or dishonestly - not in my breed anyway. When registering cattle involves only registering cattle I don't see the need to associate a number of other complaints people have with the "registered mainstream" with the act of registration per se.
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PatB



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Age : 53
Location : Turner, Maine

PostSubject: Re: temperature effect on calf BW   Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:44 am

Grassfarmer wrote:
Registering cattle needn't involve weighing calves either honestly or dishonestly - not in my breed anyway. When registering cattle involves only registering cattle I don't see the need to associate a number of other complaints people have with the "registered mainstream" with the act of registration per se.


 cheers cheers Very Happy 
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RobertMac



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Location : Mississippi, USA

PostSubject: Re: temperature effect on calf BW   Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:22 am

I thought the act of registration was to fulfill the 'need to associate' and to garner the implication that the cattle are "better" because they are registered?
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: temperature effect on calf BW   Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:08 pm

The way I see it, in a breed that actually is a true breed and has recognizable breed characteristics and a breed type, the type of registration we have is the best protection against our breed ever encountering the problems that cause most of you to want to not register your cattle. We maintain a central register of the cattle within the population which is essentially doing the same thing as breeders private records but by being held centrally allows members with larger or smaller herds to pool their ancestry records, have them centrally stored, to maintain them from one persons ownership to the next, and provide continuity from breeders of days gone by to todays breeders. The registration fee we charge may be used for generic breed promotion and as breeders we are all in it together - to that extend, yes, I'm proud to associate with other Luing breeders in Canada as we share the common goal of producing more profitable cattle for our commercial customers. We have never claimed that our cattle are better because they are registered with the breed Association.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: temperature effect on calf BW   Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:59 pm

I really can`t figure any benefit of registration greater than registration makes me eligible to sell to other registered breeders...and if I select for the "breed standards"; or more specifically "my standards" on a consistent basis, why would I need to know ancestry since all were selected through the same sieve?
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RobertMac



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PostSubject: Re: temperature effect on calf BW   Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:07 pm

Grassfarmer, I didn't intend my comments to be directed toward you or your breed association and I apologize if I offended.......But, I'm going to take the cowardly way out and blame it all on Mike!!!! Twisted Evil 
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: temperature effect on calf BW   Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:07 pm

RobertMac wrote:
Grassfarmer, I didn't intend my comments to be directed toward you or your breed association and I apologize if I offended.......But, I'm going to take the cowardly way out and blame it all on Mike!!!! Twisted Evil 

it`s all my fault... Very Happy 
friends don`t have to agree about everything to be friends...if I lived in Alberta I would be using one of Grassy`s bulls; registered or not...with the expectations of the bull creating enough profit over time for me to move south  Smile 
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RobertMac



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PostSubject: Re: temperature effect on calf BW   Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:18 pm

Grassy knows what I've said about one of his bulls...I have no doubts about Grassy's integrity.

I don't think I will ever have the need for one of his bulls, although we did have a tough winter this year. Had a two inch snow that hung around for three days and the highs didn't even get above freezing. If it weren't for hurricanes, my wife would have us moving south...farther south!
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EddieM



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Location : South Carolina

PostSubject: Re: temperature effect on calf BW   Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:26 pm

Now that it is nearly the end of winter for some and spring for others, should we consider looking for seasonally discounted "cow coats" to use next winter and keep our cows warm so that calf weights will stay down? Like the horse blankets or the covers on wool sheep to keep their fleece clean. rabbit 
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: temperature effect on calf BW   Fri May 09, 2014 7:04 am

you decide what it`s worth, but the scattered April calves from my heifers by the same bulls were all noticeably {notice is all I do} smaller @ birth; and this past week; a batch of ET calves by 1116, 6141, and 7128 Encore influenced sires; from a double bred Encore cow;all small
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LCP



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PostSubject: Re: temperature effect on calf BW   Fri May 09, 2014 11:10 pm

I don't weigh calves at birth. I do keep track of how many calves I pull. It was a pretty cold winter here. I have not had much calving trouble at all. I've pulled 3 out of 30 heifers (one was backwards, got 15 yet to calve) but none have been hard pulls. Pulled zero out of everything else, to include 4 sets of live twins.

Our cows were on cornstalks until March. Meaning, they got exercise every day. To the point I was wondering if they were expending too much energy traveling to water. They held their condition well enough so I let them be.

I know what the science says about calf BW in relation to temperature, but it seems from my observations that exercise makes a bigger difference in calving ease than temp.
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Hilly



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PostSubject: Re: temperature effect on calf BW   Fri May 09, 2014 11:44 pm

My experience here seems to lean toward temperature, my cows get more exercise in the winter then the summer (I assuming your experience was lighter calves with more exercise) but my summer calves from the same mobs of bulls verses the winter calving cows are around 7 lbs lighter on the average.

I only weighed summer calves one year and at that time I had about 200 June and 200 March calving cows with the same bull groups and when I worked out the average the June calves were 7 lbs  lighter.

As I mentioned as well before the same cows that you could handle easily calving in March would put you under your truck...(I mean back in your saddle) when calving in June on grass.
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: temperature effect on calf BW   Sat May 10, 2014 10:02 am

Luke, I think the bigger factor in calving ease due to exercise, rather than possible lower birthweight, is better muscle tone in the cows. When they get to do plenty walking they are just fitter and the incidence of malpresentations declines hugely too in my experience.
Despite the longer, colder winter our calving season and birth weights are normal (only weigh the prospective bull calves) First 100 calvings - one assist - an old xbred cow that I kept a year too long with a huge calf coming one leg back. One assisted suckle - an old cow with sloppy udder. Everything else managed just fine including 5 sets of twins all up and suckled when I saw them.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: temperature effect on calf BW   Tue May 13, 2014 9:17 pm

I`ve seen and heard varying opinions on this...does continual selection for lower birthweight {as 0 to 0 to 0 to 0} create, over time, heifers with decreased calving ability {cem}...I have no experience though somewhat of the negative opinion...my only line of defense the jersey breed; low bw`s with cows that can deliver lots of calf per size of cow...Beckton maybe?
???
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Kent Powell



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PostSubject: Re: temperature effect on calf BW   Tue May 13, 2014 9:40 pm

A comparison of CED and CEM seems to disprove this widely repeated belief. It is very rare that an animal excels in one and not the other. The only higher BW bull that is high in CEM is 9440. Only one very high CED bull is fairly low on CEM.

In selecting from the middle(or by dam and disregarding all but very heavy valves), and not continually using extremely low BW bulls, my numbers are creeping up, but calving problems haven't. True level or just selection for a certain numerical level removed? I don't know, or worry much about it.
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RobertMac



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Location : Mississippi, USA

PostSubject: xbred cow    Wed May 14, 2014 10:49 am

Crossbreeding increases weaning, yearling, slaughter, and mature weights...why isn't it blamed for increased birth weights? Does heterosis not take effect in the womb?

And I would define mongrelized registered cattle as xbreds.
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LCP



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PostSubject: Re: temperature effect on calf BW   Wed May 14, 2014 2:58 pm

Grassfarmer wrote:
Luke, I think the bigger factor in calving ease due to exercise, rather than possible lower birthweight, is better muscle tone in the cows. When they get to do plenty walking they are just fitter and the incidence of malpresentations declines hugely too in my experience.

That's what I was getting at. Whether the calves are bigger or not, they seem to be coming out easier this year.
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PostSubject: Re: temperature effect on calf BW   Wed May 14, 2014 10:43 pm

LCP wrote:
Grassfarmer wrote:
Luke, I think the bigger factor in calving ease due to exercise, rather than possible lower birthweight, is better muscle tone in the cows. When they get to do plenty walking they are just fitter and the incidence of malpresentations declines hugely too in my experience.

That's what I was getting at.  Whether the calves are bigger or not, they seem to be coming out easier this year.

Warmest Mid Jan to March I have ever seen, and the smallest calves I have ever seen, I don't weigh calves but my guess is there was not a 90 lb calf in the bunch.. And in the past I have had 100 lb calves every year. No extreme low BW animals in the entire bunch. Now a local vet claims that warm winters lower birth weight and increase twinning frequency, He may have a point as every one I have talked to is having smaller than normal calves and quite a few twin's..
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: temperature effect on calf BW   Thu May 15, 2014 7:27 am

reading the advantage gossip rag perspective on the expected progeny bw "difference", I don`t believe it`s wise to assume a 2 lb. difference in epd is generally going to mean in any environment if a 0 is 80 lb; a plus 2 will be 82...once again, an "averaging" of not only numbers but of greatly varying environments...
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