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 New grassfed fodder

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Kent Powell



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Join date : 2010-09-24
Location : SW Kansas

PostSubject: New grassfed fodder   Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:18 pm

France/EU Ag Policy BS just like home.

Post from Grassfedbeef group:
Greetings to All.

It’s been a really mild winter here in SW France. We haven’t had a good frost since November. I just started feeding early spring pasture to the herd – an old alfalfa field that is now nearly all fescue. So that should be no more hay rolling out for the winter. Woo! Grasses grow slowly over winter here and this pasture had been rested since November.

There was a bumper crop of bad hay last year (too late harvest) so hay is cheap by French standards at around 20€ for a 300kg round bale (660lb). There are 85 bales in the barn that I didn’t use so they’re being saved up for September or next winter.

Our big winter bugbear is wet clay fields and it has been a very wet January. I’ve been moving the herd twice daily to avoid too much damage and also hitting paddocks that are planned to be seeded this March anyway – EU regulations mean that to declare the farm as Temporary Pasture I have to work the fields every five years. If I don’t work the fields and they become “permanent pasture” and their value drops since you can’t then convert them to cereal land in the future.

Cheers,

Brent.

http://grasspunk.com

he has an interesting Blog- especially the comments.
http://grasspunk.com/2013/11/26/bull-calves-and-their-dads/
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Grassfarmer



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Location : Belmont, Manitoba, Canada

PostSubject: Re: New grassfed fodder   Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:13 pm

On EU regulations - was speaking to friends in Scotland recently, the wet winter is causing some real headaches with slurry storage. With beef cows often housed 6 months, dairy cattle 8 months+ they need to spread a lot of slurry. In my part of Scotland they recorded 22 inches of rain in a 6 week period in Dec/Jan. Spreading is largely done with "umbilical" systems now as the land is rarely dry enough to support tankers in winter. SEPA (Scottish Environmental Protection Agency) is the ruling body - they can dictate whether it is a "go" to spread slurry or not and I take it they publicize spreading conditions online or something. Anyway one farmer there was at the limit of his storage capacity so when SEPA indicated conditions were right to spread he got right on it the next day. The following night it rained again, somewhat unexpectedly. Next day SEPA official turned up, looked at the land that was spread, deemed an offence had been committed and fined the farmer 3% of his single farm payment (the annual subsidy cheque they get - would have been several thousand dollars). No use appealing to these guys that they had given a green light to spread 24 hours earlier. I sure don't mind that kind of BS.

Was very surprised to see a Black Saler on the website. I didn't think the French would be into mongrelization and I've never heard of naturally occurring Black Salers.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: New grassfed fodder   Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:49 pm

supposed to be typing a little sale sheet for tomorrow in case someone shows, but what is there to say past here the peewees are that have helped make us a living; aided by not trying to wear too big a hat...

Grassy`s comments seem a perfect lead in to some pics I recently took in FL that I will get a couple up a day or so.....90,000 acres headed to grass-fed production beginning here as best I gathered...



to this



to this



ran across this from a few years ago trip to Gator land and thought RobertMac would enjoy seeing some ears on cattle...Adams Ranch



to be continued
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RobertMac



Posts : 262
Join date : 2010-09-28
Location : Mississippi, USA

PostSubject: Re: New grassfed fodder   Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:17 pm

Ah yea, cattle only a mother could love!!!
Very similar to what you would see in my pastures except I have very few bulls with sheathes like that, but they sure wouldn't be with the cows.

Adams Ranch was a very close second when I was deciding which way to go with my cattle. I went with Beefmasters for all the wrong reasons...lots of local registered propagators and high sale prices back in the early 1990s. Lucky for me the Lasaters maintained the closed Foundation Herd.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: New grassfed fodder   Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:47 pm

nice cow

next step in Florida is fence in the cattle...I would want to fence out the alligators as well  Smile Manager has permits to take about 35 a year...



sow some grass



breaking sequence a bit...a herd of predominantly FL adapted English breeding that came with a farm purchase...





the white deal is a well to measure ground water every couple weeks for purity etc...



I like the corral area Smile



I like it better full of grass fed steers moving to new pasture

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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: New grassfed fodder   Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:02 am

up close it`s easy to see the final product is not a pud...



grass status Feb 1...sorry I didn`t get a close up of these calving 2`s...about a minimum 1/4 Brahman in the cow desired...



excess grass can be saved for a dry spell or when things get a little muddy...



when it`s 55, you get your coat on in FL...The manager who is bringing all pursuits together on 90,000 acres



everything will end up here in the farm facility; only thing lacking appeared to be the final landscaping



the Angus component type



I`ve had a bit of demand replacing this type as of late...but crossed with the Brahman, the fertility may be as good as it gets in FL...
A great visit and thanks to Rick for taking the time to show me around...
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RobertMac



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Location : Mississippi, USA

PostSubject: Re: New grassfed fodder   Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:20 pm

Mike, how are they incorporating irrigation? I'm assuming they are going for year round processing or are they thinking seasonal? I bet they are wanting a choice end product, but that is going to take a good bit of farming using annuals.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: New grassfed fodder   Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:07 pm

RobertMac wrote:
Mike, how are they incorporating irrigation? I'm assuming they are going for year round processing or are they thinking seasonal? I bet they are wanting a choice end product, but that is going to take a good bit of farming using annuals.

they are seeking irrigation permits; part of the groundwater testing I believe; maybe I can get Rick on here...yes, he was quite adamant that those annuals cost money and must be utilized by cattle ...
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pukerimu



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Join date : 2012-06-02
Location : Norsewood, New Zealand

PostSubject: Re: New grassfed fodder   Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:02 am

Thanks for the photos Mike - liking those two bulls (the black ones that is) alot - I hope you will be providing updates over the years
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: New grassfed fodder   Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:24 am

pukerimu wrote:
Thanks for the photos Mike - liking those two bulls (the black ones that is) alot - I hope you will be providing updates over the years

Megan, my FL updates will be dependent on my continued ability to break 80  Smile the ball rolls a long way on FL fairways; it`s a good place to keep fooling one`s self that you can play golf without being embarrassed  Smile 
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: New grassfed fodder   Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:37 pm

pukerimu wrote:
Thanks for the photos Mike - liking those two bulls (the black ones that is) alot - I hope you will be providing updates over the years

Just an observation from cattle in LA, but British breed and most pure continental breed bulls are a short time investment on the average in those conditions of hot temps and wet feet. I'm assuming on the wet feet part rom the pictures. That's why Graham, Debters and other herds like them could sell so many bulls year after year into the gulf area that didn't impress the eye but got cows bred. The ones that last the longest mimic the brahma crossed cows and have more length, height (and skin to emit heat) without so much bulk and they would need the best of feet.

Mike, I'd think that a mob of young bulls like you talked about at one time would do them the best and then know that most will have done their job and be ready to be hot dogs and bologna. Every environment and newcomer restarts a new learning curve.

Eddie, with no skin in their game - just spectating
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RobertMac



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PostSubject: Re: New grassfed fodder   Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:20 pm

Eddie, those black bulls will do fine through the winter...both months of it cheers 
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: New grassfed fodder   Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:34 am

hmmmm....


A small group of high quality stocker calves sold last week at an auction in Nebraska and received little attention. To those in the business of purchasing grazing animals for this summer, the transaction deserved some special attention. The package of steers weighed 426# and brought $301. When the grazer has added 350# to those steers and they weigh just under 800#, they will need to sell next fall for just short of $200.


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outsidethebox



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Age : 64
Location : Goessel, Kansas

PostSubject: Re: New grassfed fodder   Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:34 pm

The water buffalo I saw grazing the other day were looking pretty good. The grass is holding up remarkably well here. They seem to be holding their condition quite well.

Ha Ha! It is Saturday morning here in beautiful down town Saigon. Have been here a week...working with my pediatrician brother on a health care project. Two more weeks to go. Highs in the mid 90s with lows in the 70s. Tomorrow we head north and will be in the greater Hanoi area. They say it will be cold up there...even snow if we end up in the mountains northwest of Hanoi. My crazy brother has worked with a large Vietnamese population in the Mobile, AL area for many years and has taught himself Vietnamese.

BTW, the beef I have had here sucks. But otherwise the experience has been most remarkable and will likely will get better as we go north and get to be with native folks my brother is connected with.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: New grassfed fodder   Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:51 pm

outsidethebox wrote:
The water buffalo I saw grazing the other day were looking pretty good. The grass is holding up remarkably well here. They seem to be holding their condition quite well.

Ha Ha! It is Saturday morning here in beautiful down town Saigon. Have been here a week...working with my pediatrician brother on a health care project. Two more weeks to go.  Highs in the mid 90s with lows in the 70s. Tomorrow we head north and will be in the greater Hanoi area. They say it will be cold up there...even snow if we end up in the mountains northwest of Hanoi. My crazy brother has worked with a large Vietnamese population in the Mobile, AL area for many years and has taught himself Vietnamese.

BTW, the beef I have had here sucks. But otherwise the experience has been most remarkable and will likely will get better as we go north and get to be with native folks my brother is connected with.

get some pictures Warren  Exclamation 
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Grassfarmer



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Location : Belmont, Manitoba, Canada

PostSubject: Re: New grassfed fodder   Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:53 pm

Vietnam - the only time I've ever chosen a vegetarian option. cheers  The seafood option down in the delta scared me.
Stunningly beautiful country I thought.
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grasspunk



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Join date : 2014-03-09
Location : SW France

PostSubject: Re: New grassfed fodder   Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:53 pm

Grassfarmer wrote:

Was very surprised to see a Black Saler on the website. I didn't think the French would be into mongrelization and I've never heard of naturally occurring Black Salers.

Greetings, this is Brent in France (although I am an American). My email to the grassfedbeef alias was the start of this thread.

Black Salers do exist here. The central breed organization doesn't like black but they do crop up. Some farmers have a soft spot for the black color and breed for them but it's not common to do that. I'm in Blonde d'Aquitaine country and there are only a handful of Salers farms here. There are no black Salers on any of those, but as you have seen I have a few and I've seen black animals in the Aveyron and Cantal which have a lot more Salers farms than my area.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'mongrelization' but there is some crossbreeding with Salers here, the most common being putting a Charolais bull on Salers cows to get some of the size of the Charolais with the calving ease and milk of a Salers.

And thanks for posting my link here. I've been reading through the site learning a few things from the folks at your end of the business.

Cheers,

Brent.
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: New grassfed fodder   Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:00 pm

beautiful website Brent...http://grasspunk.com/salers-cows/
so did you star in
An American in Paris and just decided to stay?  Smile 
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: New grassfed fodder   Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:42 pm

Grasspunk I was surprised to see black Salers in France. Looking on-line -  from the UK Salers Society: "Polled animals in the full blood herd are very rare. However, a growing number of polled and black Salers are becoming available in the pure bred herd."

From a US site: "Salers cattle are typically horned and dark mahogany red in color, however a growing number of polled and black Salers are available."

From WikiHow "Colouration: Salers come in a deep mahogany-red. Some cattle may be a deeper red than others, and other cattle may also be black. Black colouration, just like in Simmentals, Charolais, Gelbvieh and Maine Anjou cattle, is from the infusion of Angus genetics in this breed."

The last sentence is the mongrelization I was referring to. So is that the origin of the blacks in France or are there genuine historic records of Black Salers? I'm fascinated by breed origins and the source of breed colours/patterns.

PS. I like the look of your beef - looks remarkably similar to our grass-fed Luing beef. Can't beat the Highland influence, LOL.
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grasspunk



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PostSubject: Re: New grassfed fodder   Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:00 am

Hello MKeeney, there's a too-long story there but in short the wife wanted to live in France and I wanted to raise the family in the country so we ended up in country France.
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grasspunk



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PostSubject: Re: New grassfed fodder   Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:14 am

Grassfarmer wrote:
From WikiHow "Colouration: Salers come in a deep mahogany-red. Some cattle may be a deeper red than others, and other cattle may also be black. Black colouration, just like in Simmentals, Charolais, Gelbvieh and Maine Anjou cattle, is from the infusion of Angus genetics in this breed."

The last sentence is the mongrelization I was referring to. So is that the origin of the blacks in France or are there genuine historic records of Black Salers? I'm fascinated by breed origins and the source of breed colours/patterns.

It wouldn't surprise me if Angus was in there from a long time back although I don't really believe much of what I read online. I did read in a scan of some old book that they had imported Red Devon blood to strengthen the breed in the 1800s and if they were messing with the herd back then they could have done other things too. Salers are something of an outlier for a French cow. They like the cold weather, they eat anything (unlike the fussy Blondes here), they have marbled meat and they look like Devons.

I can ask around about the source of the black and see what stories I get back, but it is hard to know anything for sure. About all I can really say is that this isn't just an American thing - there are black Salers in France too.

According to this DNA research, the Salers cow has had more inbreeding in old times than other French cows, although nothing compared to the Angus or especially the Hereford. http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com/2012/08/qualifying-diversity-in-bovine-cattle.html


Grassfarmer wrote:
PS. I like the look of your beef - looks remarkably similar to our grass-fed Luing beef. Can't beat the Highland influence, LOL.

Heh, I looked through your site and your cows do look similar. You have a photo of a young bull who looks a lot like an 11mo bull I'll be using this summer. What age can you finish those Luing? IIRC Highlands take quite a while to reach maturity.
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: New grassfed fodder   Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:00 pm

I'm not smart enough to work out the implications of your DNA graph but from what I've read elsewhere there was an awful lot of cattle movement around Europe a long time ago. Much of it would predate the Angus breed being formed. I've certainly read the the Scottish Highland was used on Salers cattle a long, long time ago and looking at your horned cows there is a similarity of horn curvature. That was the old joke in Scotland - that Highlands had been used to improve the Salers, giving them the longevity, hardiness, good feet and hair coat but some idiot had let a Limousin in on the project and that gave them their temperament.
We finish the top half of our Luing and Luing cross cattle off grass at 17-18 months giving a 600lb carcass. The smaller half would probably make it in 20-22 months but we have winter then so we sell them off as feeders instead.
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grasspunk



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PostSubject: Re: New grassfed fodder   Sun Apr 13, 2014 3:01 am

Grassfarmer wrote:

We finish the top half of our Luing and Luing cross cattle off grass at 17-18 months giving a 600lb carcass. The smaller half would probably make it in 20-22 months but we have winter then so we sell them off as feeders instead.  

That seems very good to me. My steers are taking 24 months or more, although some get where I want them to be at a younger age. I've been working on improving my management of forage and the current yearlings have developed much better, but we'll know with the yearlings at the end of summer. We've still got a lot of improvement to do.

After your Highland/Salers comments I read through a bunch of material on the internet and the same text seems to have been cut and pasted across several sites about the Salers breed importing Highlands. Other sites (including the French Salers site) mentions importing Durham/Shorthorns, Devons and Highlands, but they say all imported animals died of TB. But who knows - as you say the horns and hair are very similar.

There could be a common ancestor. I went through some different DNA research that showed the Highland and Galloway cattle shared common ancestry with SW French cattle and that both sets descended from Swiss milk cattle. Other British cattle had a different ancestor in Europe.

There was one very interesting point that showed up on one Highland page. They were claiming that with all the fur they don't get the thick subcutaneous fat that, say, an Angus has. The cow invests in building fur for warmth rather than fat. I've been wondering about that with my herd. I can get them marbled better than other French breeds but I haven't yet got the thick subcutaneous fat layer that you see on Angus cows. Maybe it isn't going to happen with Salers genetics because of the same reason as that claim by a Highland beef producer - too much fur. I'll keep working on it.
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: New grassfed fodder   Sun Apr 13, 2014 11:39 pm

I haven't seen any cows with fur yet Shocked but certainly some of the double coated breeds with a mossy undercoat and long guard hairs on the outside have less subQ fat. True of the Highland and of the Galloway in my experience but despite our Luings having the same double hair coats they have plenty subQ fat - I assume that must have been the Shorthorn contribution.
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PatB



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PostSubject: Re: New grassfed fodder   Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:17 pm

Grassfarmer

Could if be selection pressure by mother nature that causes them to have the extra fat? I can easily see animals that have extra fat coming thru your winters in better shape than those that don't carry the extra insulation. Very Happy 
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