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 When you use a true line for outcrossing

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Larry Leonhardt



Posts : 169
Join date : 2011-08-10

PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:20 pm

CHAPTER TWO

I am 99% certain that is MK's handwriting I saw on this billboard sign along Hwy 80W near Nancy, KY.




MK wrote
my ignorance and imagination let`s me go deeper than most breeders into the ancestral pool to evaluate the animal/s responsible for any goodness in the current generation...obviously, the cow of dominance here is Shoshone SX 47-1012 (1982}...would you have any semen on her sire Shoshone SX 47 ?
hold on a minute; I owned that 1012 cow...how come I never got the same results?


To answer your first question Mike, no, I don't have any semen on SX 47. I see no reason to cater to members of the "old bull" club which was formed to go back and start over again from some point in time to remedy their selection errors. Shocked The reason you didn't get the same results from cow #1012 is that you never ever let "Mary" do the sire selection for you ... another Mary, quite contrary, said leave 'sm alone and they'll come home wagging their tails behind them ... EddieM's version of Little Bo Peep .... when will we ever learn? Smile

I excused you back in those days Mike cuz you were still in that King University hypnotic trance running around the pastures looking for the biggest calf ... I don't know how much you remember during your transic state but the late 70's and 80's were the peak of the crazed frame score races. That was when KU henchmen made the amazing discovery that its possible to hang more beef on a bigger frame and at the same time increase complexity and rarity.

So Mike, for you to better understand cow #1012, I'll need to take you back further in time to her dam, #PSVY10. then #SVY10, then #VY10 when "Mary" first locked in the maternal characters She chose for me. Mary likes the lottery system in order to give anyone an equal chance and loves playing hide and seek. Mary also had exposed #VY10's genes in SX 47's maternal grandam and I didn't find them again until Mary re-exposed them locked in cow #1012 ... THE ODDS of that happening were slim but my guiding "angels" were helping me. So, there was no longer any reason to concern myself with the P's, S's, V's, Y's or basic 10's and I assigned her own new #1012 (the 12th one) in my formative; now isolated, nucleus. Even Gavin knows Mary scatters her seeds everywhere.

Not doing me any "Favour's" at the time, SX 47's poor old maternal grandam was totally overwhelmed by MY "performance" selections and you may remember SX 47 was among the very top performer's of the 1980 Midland Bull TEST earning me several IPR certificates of merit (individual performance records).

Skip forward about 10 years when cow #1012 was transferred to the custody of Joseph Dunkum, your friend and interacting neighbor. About that time, you selected an SX 47 son out of cow #6357, another angel's "Favourite" cow pictured and listed in the aforementioned pedigree as the maternal grandam of cow #164-6336. Remember Mike, how this SX 47 son named Fraser was one of the biggest, "nicest looking" bulls in that calf crop ... a sure enough "do-it-all" prospect. Smile

You and Joe were so proud of his growthy yearling heifers ... but later on you told me they got too damn big and had more birthweight than you preferred ... about the same time the industry began having extremely serious concerns about rising birth weights, dry cows and loss of carcass quality. Well, Mary gives us everything in proportions of what we sow, documented by national sire summaries. What very few know is that SX 47's poor old forgotten maternal grandam had a daughter that I featured on the inside back cover of my 1983 "Truline" booklet, hiding in the shadowy background of my message -



Now I know 99% of the traditional world is busy touting relative feed indexes and a gazillion other other measures IN COMPARISON WITH EACH OTHER LIKE THE SKY IS THE LIMIT until the SKY FALLS into bits and pieces scattered everywhere. Shocked
And here I am standing still in Mary's hide and seek timeless world, where tis said "seek and ye shall find", where everything here has always been. Mary ALWAYS prevails and this is the stark naked difference between breeding "money" cattle and cattle that "live always" from the same gene pools. .... with ordinary expectations at ordinary prices cheers jocolor

Choosing which side to be on, I've beaten this same ole horse nearly to death but I know Mary is helping me revive him. It took Mary about 30 years to revive Mike and if She can revive him, She can revive anyone ... there is a difference between a male and a female and how they see the same thing....



LL infatuated with Mary
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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:27 am

larkota wrote:
in the world of making the best better, and if you are not improving you are going backwards.....makes me wonder why they felt the need to use JAD PHYLIX.  could it be for the udder quality, fertility, and longevity.  usually can figure out a breeding program's weakness by the new bulls they bring in.

Larkota typing on a new laptop.  just purchased 20 heifers from Shoshone and only papers needed were health and brand.

Rod trusts his books and LL; Larkota trusts the name Shoshone; and LL trusts Mary...it`s time once to pay tribute to Mary...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcBnJw-H2wQ

 cheers 
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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:48 am

If I could let it be, maybe she would let me sleep.
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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:39 am

Larry Leonhardt wrote:
CHAPTER TWO

I am 99% certain that is MK's handwriting I saw on this billboard sign along Hwy 80W near Nancy, KY.




MK wrote
my ignorance and imagination let`s me go deeper than most breeders into the ancestral pool to evaluate the animal/s responsible for any goodness in the current generation...obviously, the cow of dominance here is Shoshone SX 47-1012 (1982}...would you have any semen on her sire Shoshone SX 47 ?
hold on a minute; I owned that 1012 cow...how come I never got the same results?  


To answer your first question Mike, no, I don't have any semen on SX 47.   I see no reason to cater to members of the "old bull" club which was formed to go back and start over again from some point in time to remedy their selection errors.   Shocked    The reason you didn't get the same results from cow #1012 is that you never ever let "Mary" do the sire selection for you ... another Mary, quite contrary, said leave 'sm alone and they'll come home wagging their tails behind them ... EddieM's version of Little Bo Peep .... when will we ever learn?   Smile   

I excused you back in those days Mike cuz you were still in that King University hypnotic trance running around the pastures looking for the biggest calf ... I don't know how much you remember during your transic state but the late 70's and 80's were the peak of the crazed frame score races.  That was when  KU henchmen made the amazing discovery that its possible to hang more beef on a bigger frame and at the same time increase complexity and rarity.    

So Mike, for you to better understand cow #1012, I'll need to take you back further in time to her dam, #PSVY10. then #SVY10, then #VY10 when "Mary" first locked in the maternal characters She chose for me.   Mary likes the lottery system in order to give anyone an equal chance and loves playing hide and seek.    Mary also had exposed #VY10's genes in SX 47's maternal grandam and I didn't find them again until Mary re-exposed them locked in cow #1012 ... THE ODDS  of that happening were slim but my guiding "angels" were helping me.   So, there was no longer any reason to concern myself with the P's, S's, V's, Y's or basic 10's and I assigned her own new #1012 (the 12th one) in my formative; now isolated, nucleus.   Even Gavin knows Mary scatters her seeds everywhere.

Not doing me any "Favour's" at the time, SX 47's poor old maternal grandam was totally overwhelmed by MY "performance" selections and you may remember SX 47 was among the very top performer's of the 1980 Midland Bull TEST earning me several IPR certificates of merit (individual performance records).

Skip forward about 10 years when cow #1012 was transferred to the custody of Joseph Dunkum, your friend and interacting neighbor.  About that time, you selected an SX 47 son out of cow #6357, another angel's "Favourite" cow pictured and listed in the aforementioned pedigree as the maternal  grandam of cow #164-6336.    Remember Mike, how this SX 47 son named Fraser was one of the biggest, "nicest looking" bulls in that calf crop ... a sure enough "do-it-all" prospect.  Smile  

You and Joe were so proud of his growthy yearling heifers ... but later on you told me they got too damn big and had more birthweight than you preferred ... about the same time the industry began having extremely serious concerns about rising birth weights, dry cows and loss of carcass quality.    Well, Mary gives us everything in proportions of what we sow,  documented by national sire summaries.   What very few know is that SX 47's poor old forgotten maternal grandam had a daughter that I featured on the inside back cover of my 1983 "Truline" booklet, hiding in the shadowy background of my message -



Now I know 99% of the traditional world is busy touting relative feed indexes and a gazillion other other measures IN COMPARISON WITH EACH OTHER LIKE THE SKY IS THE LIMIT until the SKY FALLS into bits and pieces scattered everywhere. Shocked
 And here I am standing still in Mary's hide and seek timeless world, where tis said "seek and ye shall find", where everything here has always been.   Mary ALWAYS prevails and this is the stark naked difference between breeding "money" cattle and cattle that "live always" from the same gene pools. .... with ordinary expectations at ordinary prices  cheers  jocolor

Choosing which side to be on, I've beaten this same ole horse nearly to death but I know Mary is helping me revive him.   It took Mary about 30 years to revive Mike and if She can revive him, She can revive anyone ... there is a difference between a male and a female and how they see the same thing....



LL infatuated with Mary

I thought we were riding a turtle; not a horse...if a turtle is fast enough for Mary; it`s fast enough for me...

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Larry Leonhardt



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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:53 pm

Craig wrote:
 
".....If you as a breeder chose an individual as an ideal, the further that individual is from center the more costly it will be to maintain her, be it $ or variance which is not a bad thing but understanding that helps me sleep... ok so maybe I still don't sleep   Smile 

 
Tom D wrote:

If I could let it be, maybe SHE would let me sleep.

Larkota wrote:

"In the world of making the best better, and if you are not improving you are going backwards.....makes me wonder why they felt the need to use JAD PHYLIX.  could it be for the udder quality, fertility, and longevity.  usually can figure out a breeding program's weakness by the new bulls they bring in.

Larkota typing on a new laptop.  just purchased 20 heifers from Shoshone and only papers needed were health and brand."


While Larkota was sleeping soundly, a thief broke in and stole all his troubles of his past to start fresh with a new laptop, my left angel is currently incapacitated and I have 20 less mouths to feed ... how lucky can we be when we let Mary control our destiny  Very Happy 

Some traditional over-promoter somewhere wrote:

The udder quality, fertility, and longevity of the Shoshone herd is a rarity and unprecedented.

Pukerimu wrote:

"....The race for maths has indeed made "udder quality" and other key (usually old and not needing much improvement) traits a rarity ... Apparently nothing can be done to change the disadvantages faced by breeders who select on type, family lines and have few links "to really get the data" ...  Maybe someone has to man up and "just do it"" .... .there is likely to be a driving force for change. As stated interesting times ahead.

MK wrote:

I thought we were riding a turtle; not a horse...if a turtle is fast enough for Mary; it`s fast enough for me...



Mike, you've got your photo bucket mixed up again, Mary dwells beneath the sea of life sending out her angels to do her bidding.   This is a picture of Megan when she was just off the East Coast of NZ, a close relative and descendant of Joan of Arc, leading the charge of change riding the dependable turtle older than Methuselah who needs no improvement ... nor does Megan  Smile    We all know it takes a female to make us men man up and "just do it" ... I can imagine the brigades of men that are following Megan's charge to establish a hill country type with the new breed plan math of "36-26-36" as the symmetric standard to enhance udder quality, fertility, and longevity ... Mary's mothering ability sure works in mysterious ways  Smile 

My goodness, Mary gives us all these different kinds of cattle and we just have a hell've time deciding which kind to raise for somebody else   scratch  scratch  scratch .......................or ouRselves     Razz  Razz  .   Leroy's back from NZ and reported back that the primary thing he learned is how to be more gentlemanly to Sylvia.

LL
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pukerimu



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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:34 pm

Larry Leonhardt wrote:
... I can imagine the brigades of men that are following Megan's charge to establish a hill country type with the new breed plan math of "36-26-36" as the symmetric standard to enhance udder quality, fertility, and longevity ... Mary's mothering ability sure works in mysterious ways  Smile 

My goodness, Mary gives us all these different kinds of cattle and we just have a hell've time deciding which kind to raise for somebody else   scratch  scratch  scratch .......................or ouRselves     Razz  Razz  .   Leroy's back from NZ and reported back that the primary thing he learned is how to be more gentlemanly to Sylvia.

LL

Thank you Larry (I think) - hopefully Leroy will only put up photos of the cattle from here, and none of the other "old cows" around the place - would hate for the illusion that has been created in the above to be horribly smashed by reality  affraid 

Not leading a charge to establish the hill country type so much as holding the fort, and rallying the troops against those who would demolish what we already have, and replace them with computer generated monsters, with Hal glowing red in the background to tell us how to do it.

A background in dealing with computers, computer programmers and computer program salesmen in the '90's (standard project office joke ......... what's the difference between a used car salesman and a computer salesman ................................ at least the car salesman knows when he is telling lies  lol!  lol!  ..................... no offence intended to any honest, straight talking car salesmen out there  Very Happy ) enabled me to take a more cynical view of what goes into "cos the computer says" and in 17 years of cattle breeding (and analysing) I have not become convinced that one should rely on "estimated" or "expected" figures more than any other single method of assessing cattle - in fact anything with an "estimated" or "expected" in front of it usually means ................."no guarantees here" and "not our problem if it is completely wrong".  So many "hill" country registered breeders have had the same concerns, observations and fears as us, over many years, it is just that when the jargon starts getting thrown around and the complexities of the computer program start being discussed they do not have the confidence to stand up and shout "bull dust" (or something similar  Smile ) as they literally do not understand computers - it has been a dirty trick by some to gain market share at their expense.  At least finally the questions are being asked - meanwhile I cannot bear to think of all the wonderful bulls which would have added so much to the NZ stud herd which have been sold to some lucky commercial guy "because his figures were just not good enough" to be replaced within the stud herd by the likes of 036 or CAFD ..........gag, gasp, gag
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RobertMac



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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:39 am

My life became so much more enjoyable when I realized that Mary is, has always been, and always will be in control. All I had to do was to try to learn what She is teaching and to stop doing stupid stuff like registering my cattle and believing a computer program and E-numbers could pick "my" type.
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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:32 pm

Uncle Larry,

Your April Fools are on their way; and no blizzard, mudslide, or hangover will keep us from our appointed rounds.  So as not to add to your misery, we are bringing only wampum.  No cash.  Stuff we know you'll like: bic lighters, new socks, a Bluetooth headset for your cell phone, and XL flannel nightshirts.  Hilly's got us checked in to some place called "The Dude Ranch"  Shocked And we got new suits for the occasion, to try to fit in with you and your fancy blue jacket.  Does Betty have any Gloria Jean's Hazelnut K-cups left, or should we bring some? Come to think of it, I'll bring my own mug too. Cool 


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Larry Leonhardt



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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:27 pm

Pukerimu wrote:

"....it has been a dirty trick by some to gain market share at their expense.  At least finally the questions are being asked - meanwhile I cannot bear to think of all the wonderful bulls which would have added so much to the NZ stud herd which have been sold to some lucky commercial guy "because his figures were just not good enough....."

Briann, don'tcha think this has gotta be one of the most noteworthy "truisms" ever posted on KC for your "wall hangers".    Megan, we know that need is the mother of invention but I'll  bet you didn't know the real reason why AI was invented

When I was a young lad in the late 40's, our 4-H leader and government funded County Extension Agent of Agriculture took a group of us "country kids" on a trip to the historic and famous Wyoming Hereford Ranch established on the plains of Wyoming in 1868.



To make the BEST BETTER, at that time the WHR was importing and selecting bulls of the type I featured on a previous post for the next 20 years peaking in the late 60's with these crowned champions of 1966.



The only problem was that those little short pudgy champion bulls lacked the "reach" to naturally breed the surviving Hereford cows on the WHR hilly grass plains.    So WHR invented these "breeding pits" where the cowboys could rope and tie up the cows in heat so these champion bulls could reach them.   As Mary is my witness, this is an absolutely true story of why and how science advanced to fulfill  a need and invented artificial insemination -  creating AI studs for clubs, communities, countries and the world to make the best better.  And that is also why black white faced cows originated, Mary had no other choice given the circumstances.  

Incidentally, four leaf clovers are reputed to bring good luck but they are very rare.  Very Happy 

LL, a history buff where truth is stranger than fiction.
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pukerimu



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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:02 am

I had heard stories of such going's on. Needs must!!

Thank you for explaining what the H's in 4H stands for, too - had never known, but had seen 4H being discussed and wondered - never imagined the H's stood for such lofty ideals - thought more likely stood for "heifer" but then known to be singularly minded in that direction!
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Larry Leonhardt



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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Sun Mar 30, 2014 10:02 am

Tom D wrote:
Uncle Larry,

Your April Fools are on their way; and no blizzard, mudslide, or hangover will keep us from our appointed rounds.  So as not to add to your misery, we are bringing only wampum.  No cash.  Stuff we know you'll like: bic lighters, new socks, a Bluetooth headset for your cell phone, and XL flannel nightshirts.  Hilly's got us checked in to some place called "The Dude Ranch"  Shocked And we got new suits for the occasion, to try to fit in with you and your fancy blue jacket.  Does Betty have any Gloria Jean's Hazelnut K-cups left, or should we bring some? Come to think of it, I'll bring my own mug too. Cool 



Tom and Craig,
the Dude Ranch Motel in Billings is managed by a couple of broke back mountain cowboys so be careful if you order any room service. I'm glad you are wearing your best attire cuz I've scheduled a dinner date with Mary the evening of April Fools Day - her specialty on the menu is caviar burgers with deep sea greens and optional side orders of pink jellyfish.

LL charging up my electronic cigarette getting ready for the special occasion.
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:57 pm

RobertMac wrote:
My life became so much more enjoyable when I realized that Mary is, has always been, and always will be in control. All I had to do was to try to learn what She is teaching and to stop doing stupid stuff like registering my cattle and believing a computer program and E-numbers could pick "my" type.

Don't think there is necessarily anything stupid about registering cattle - does Mary really differentiate between bad papers (registration papers) and good papers (health papers)? Is it central to her plan scratch
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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:02 pm

Tom D wrote:
Uncle Larry,

Your April Fools are on their way; and no blizzard, mudslide, or hangover will keep us from our appointed rounds.  So as not to add to your misery, we are bringing only wampum.  No cash.  Stuff we know you'll like: bic lighters, new socks, a Bluetooth headset for your cell phone, and XL flannel nightshirts.  Hilly's got us checked in to some place called "The Dude Ranch"  Shocked And we got new suits for the occasion, to try to fit in with you and your fancy blue jacket.  Does Betty have any Gloria Jean's Hazelnut K-cups left, or should we bring some? Come to think of it, I'll bring my own mug too. Cool 



any wisp of white smoke signifying a major deal has been struck?  Very Happy 
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Larry Leonhardt



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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:54 am

MK wrote -

any wisp of white smoke signifying a major deal has been struck?   Very Happy 



Wingless angels everywhere are on track - no fire, no smoke, no looking back - looking forward somewhere over the rainbow - working together in the snow - thanks so much Edwins O   cheers


http://www.youtube.com/embed/zf_0jzPQ8lo?rel=0>



LL, all is well that ends well
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Larry Leonhardt



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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:57 pm

Grassfarmer wrote:
RobertMac wrote:
My life became so much more enjoyable when I realized that Mary is, has always been, and always will be in control. All I had to do was to try to learn what She is teaching and to stop doing stupid stuff like registering my cattle and believing a computer program and E-numbers could pick "my" type.

Don't think there is necessarily anything stupid about registering cattle - does Mary really differentiate between bad papers (registration papers) and good papers (health papers)? Is it central to her plan scratch

Intimate ancestral records are essential to any successful breeder - the primary difference is whether that breeder chooses to make those records open to the general public or keep them private.  Questioning who's really in control of nurtured nature, human intervention and engineering, Mary told me She delegated St. Peter to keep track of our good and bad private papers in a little black book.    Razz  Razz 

LL, tryin' ta jus breed good for goodness sake
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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:29 pm

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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:45 pm

MKeeney wrote:
Tom D wrote:
Uncle Larry,

Your April Fools are on their way; and no blizzard, mudslide, or hangover will keep us from our appointed rounds.  So as not to add to your misery, we are bringing only wampum.  No cash.  Stuff we know you'll like: bic lighters, new socks, a Bluetooth headset for your cell phone, and XL flannel nightshirts.  Hilly's got us checked in to some place called "The Dude Ranch"  Shocked And we got new suits for the occasion, to try to fit in with you and your fancy blue jacket.  Does Betty have any Gloria Jean's Hazelnut K-cups left, or should we bring some? Come to think of it, I'll bring my own mug too. Cool 



any wisp of white smoke signifying a major deal has been struck?  Very Happy 



This year's X-strain infusion will be coming with Y chromosomes.  That's the vision I received from the snow angels, and without my lucky coffee I thought I should probably play it safe.  



Our Arrival:

       



Our Departure:

   
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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:34 pm

url=http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif][/url]

Does Mary have a different attitude than Jack?

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Larry Leonhardt



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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:22 pm

Well Mike, that something about your blond, blue-sky eyed Mary is different than my Mary.... and Jack should be "the more you give, the happier you'll  be".    During our April 1 spring caviar, dinner party, my black haired, green eyed Mary whispered to me that it is my duty to reveal that underneath "dumb and dumber's" fancy attire, Tom and Craig are actually "smart and smarter" traveling incognito ... inseparable, it's a waste of time trying  to determine which one is which.    Hiding underneath their youthful exterior appearance, smart and smarter are actually very,  very,  old wrinkled wise men who have traveled for centuries all over the world gaining their wisdom.

Following the footsteps of Marco Polo, smart and smarter have become cunningly deceitful.  For example, to detract from their mission, they encouraged their partners in crime (Mike and Briann) to post this article of hope -

http://beefmagazine.com/selection-tools/will-crossing-two-clones-prime-yg1-carcasses-produce-similar-offspring -

which describes the bastion of Texas PHD's who continue their 200-yr traditional habits of chasing Mary's freaks who consist of 0.03% of the entire bovine population.   Smarter should have deleted Whitecow's post saying with proof that it's just another "butterball pig in a poke" - which may temporarily disrupt smart's hidden objective.

Smart and smarter's hidden objective is that they know "sexiness"  is all in the eyes ... that there is an acute shortage of  adorned,  happy,  contented,  sexy, black-eyed working cows ... not skimpy-clad but wearing aprons ... who are naturally cloned and can produce a Capricorn of meals to set before a king ... what else could we ever call them but "Elsie's" -  the "YCP's" (Yellowstone Cream Puffs).



Briann explained to Megan what "torching/torturing" cows meant and that 4-leaf clovers to make the best of the best better are only 0.03% of the population ...  like those Texas A & M guys who oughta know better that ya can't fool Mary.



Just cuz smart and smarter passed through the "black triangle" to see the COLORED LIGHTS, in the spirit of fair competition, I don't think it is fair to the rest of all of you  (whether you are a public registered OR private papered breeder) for smart and smarter to go around incognito just for their own private self-interests ... I THINK WHAT A RELIEF IT IS TO SELL EXTRA-ORDINARY "ELSIES" AT ORDINARY COMMERCIAL PRICES TO ORDINARY PEOPLE WITH ORDINARY EXPECTATIONS FOR SERVICES RENDERED .... WHAT DO YOU THINK ?????

LL - not forgetting that Mary created Elsie free for all of us to either multiply, change or destroy - they are not a Jack nickel toy

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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Sun Apr 06, 2014 7:45 am

Not trying to be disagreeable but 4H is getting a bum rap on this topic. Do we need to also attack FFA, BSA, Girl Scouts or other youth organizations that help train kids to be more responsible, more able to function, find things that they like to do or be challenged to be more than mundane? Talk about the AAA green sawdust Junior program centered around the showring and I will join in; forget the sawdust and teach them agribusiness and responsibility. I, for one, can vouch that 4H was helpful to me for a lifetime.
Eddie, not kidding
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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:11 am

EddieM wrote:
Not trying to be disagreeable but 4H is getting a bum rap on this topic.  Do we need to also attack FFA, BSA, Girl Scouts or other youth organizations that help train kids to be more responsible, more able to function, find things that they like to do or be challenged to be more than mundane?  Talk about the AAA green sawdust Junior program centered around the showring and I will join in; forget the sawdust and teach them agribusiness and responsibility.  I, for one, can vouch that 4H was helpful to me for a lifetime.
Eddie, not kidding

Totally dependent on local leadership; plenty of 4-h happenings on green sawdust...but the motto is the subject; and it`s sure flawed...who would be qualified to teach "the best"? smart and smarter; or ignorance is bliss...smart and smarter can build breeding programs; ignorance is bliss builds pyramids
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Larry Leonhardt



Posts : 169
Join date : 2011-08-10

PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:03 am

Eddie, no bum raps intended, it is that portion of what the teachers teach that is being attacked - I for one can vouch that 4-H helped me to spend a lifetime undoing what my 4-H leaders taught me .... I only buy home made girl scout cookies : )
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Kent Powell



Posts : 659
Join date : 2010-09-24
Location : SW Kansas

PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:07 am

4H isn't what it used to be. I wouldn't sign the contract giving up all my rights as a human being to volunteer. Other social engineering issues are creeping in too.
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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:31 pm

Larry Leonhardt wrote:
Eddie, no bum raps intended, it is that portion of what the teachers teach that is being attacked - I for one can vouch that 4-H helped me to spend a lifetime undoing what my 4-H leaders taught me ....  I only buy home made girl scout cookies : )

I agree Larry no Bum raps..... We were involved with the 4-H for years as our sons showed steers and competed in marksmanship. The values that they learned will stay with them for a life time. My sons showed home raised crossbred steers they always choose a calf from the late calves, rather than the  pick of the herd. between them they showed 12 steers and never placed lower than 5th in the live show or the carcass show. They won there share of purple ribbons as well. But the most important thing they learned was honesty and the value of being Average..... We had a ration that my son and a local feed mill concocted for its value rather than its effectiveness  and that is what they fed with no growth hormones or high dollar supplements. many of there competitors would purchase club calves and break the bank at all cost's. Yet my son's were the ones to beat with there low key self done approach... In the marksmanship my oldest son was very good, and he was at a State match and recorded the highest score and was not awarded the trophy, because he was not from that community, Two weeks later at the State championship the young man that was awarded that trophy quietly gave the jacket to my son and told him that he was the one that deserved the jacket and My sons name was embroider on the front By that young mans mother.... Yes Larry 4-h can be meaning full with the proper guidance.
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Tom D
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Posts : 589
Join date : 2010-09-25
Age : 38
Location : Michigan

PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:01 pm

W.T. wrote:
Larry Leonhardt wrote:
Eddie, no bum raps intended, it is that portion of what the teachers teach that is being attacked - I for one can vouch that 4-H helped me to spend a lifetime undoing what my 4-H leaders taught me ....  I only buy home made girl scout cookies : )

I agree Larry no Bum raps..... We were involved with the 4-H for years as our sons showed steers and competed in marksmanship. The values that they learned will stay with them for a life time. My sons showed home raised crossbred steers they always choose a calf from the late calves, rather than the  pick of the herd. between them they showed 12 steers and never placed lower than 5th in the live show or the carcass show. They won there share of purple ribbons as well. But the most important thing they learned was honesty and the value of being Average..... We had a ration that my son and a local feed mill concocted for its value rather than its effectiveness  and that is what they fed with no growth hormones or high dollar supplements. many of there competitors would purchase club calves and break the bank at all cost's. Yet my son's were the ones to beat with there low key self done approach... In the marksmanship my oldest son was very good, and he was at a State match and recorded the highest score and was not awarded the trophy, because he was not from that community, Two weeks later at the State championship the young man that was awarded that trophy quietly gave the jacket to my son and told him that he was the one that deserved the jacket and My sons name was embroider on the front By that young mans mother.... Yes Larry 4-h can be meaning full with the proper guidance.


Sounds like a second hand Jim Larson Story.




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