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 When you use a true line for outcrossing

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Larry Leonhardt



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Join date : 2011-08-10

PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:23 pm

EddieM wrote:
Larry Leonhardt wrote:
Eddie,  Grassfarmer, Robert....I'll answer any questions later, I'm too excited to find out how the story ends, I can't hardly wait  Very Happy    Mike pokes around with posting bits and pieces but he just can't change who he is  Very Happy
Larry, Mike is probably posting between golf outings.  But he does a good job so you ought to think about giving him a raise. Laughing  Eddie


Well Eddie, I think the ending of my  story should've answered any previous questions but after Mike's recent post,  the only thing I can afford to raise is Mike's "ire" when he re-posted this picture and said -


"the et close bred{grandson back on aunt} granddaughters of this cow all were pregnant the other day; ornery looking{they don`t look like the picture cow at this stage of life} as they are compared to MS Cornstalk of Iowa..."

For Pete or Repete's sake, I am beginning to wonder when Mendalian Mike will ever learn  Very Happy  now he's blaming MY cow, one of the queens of my Nile,  for HIS self-created problems.....his first major traditional mistake was chasing individuals using ET, the second one was his use of AI, and the major third mistake was not allowing this cow to choose her own mate for the welfare of the populace  Very Happy  now blaming this former cow of mine's grandson and grandaughters for their ornery personalities {PS..AND LOOKS Smile...MK}... when it's only natural that this cow's descendants would be resentful to Mike's inconsiderate, unnatural mating and rearing choices ... naturally their appearance would be reflected in their different form.   Very Happy

Mike knows that Mother Nature produces all her seeds with good angels with halos on one shoulder and bad angels with horns on the other and surely he's experienced enuff to know we can't "fool Mother Nature" and "hell has no fury like a scorned woman"- I already have shown him the only genuine picture of Mother Nature to prove she is a "cross" bred female ... For example every female has a dark side, we must learn how to keep them sunny side up, the basic reason eyes evolved in order to see the "light" -



How often do we need to be warned against practicing incest without using our eyes ???   Bad angels provide us with often tempting false illusions that succumbs traditional mindsets ... that it is a constant battle between our freedom of choices that determine our destiny.   To better explain natural law,  one of my "good angels" recently offered this cautionary example of an obituary of what happens when we allow "common sense" choices to die -

"Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape.

He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as:
Knowing when to come in out of the rain;
Why the early bird gets the worm;
Life isn't always fair;
And maybe it was my fault.

Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you can earn) and reliable strategies (adults, not children, are in charge).

His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a 6-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his stressfull condition.

Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining their unruly children.  It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer sun lotion or an aspirin to a student; but could not inform parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.

Common Sense lost the will to live as the churches became businesses; and criminals received better treatment than their victims.  He took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a burglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault.   Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.

Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Truth and Trust, by his wife, Discretion, by his daughter, Responsibility, and by his son, Reason.  He is survived by his 5 Indian stepbrothers;  I Know My Rights,  I Want It Now,  Someone Else Is To Blame,  I'm A Victim and  Pay me for Doing Nothing.

Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone.


So Mike, in our name the blame games, it is not my cow's fault, she became your "responsibility" when she arrived in your pastures ... it is your "spare the rod, spoil the child" selected mating choices that caused this cow's grandchildren to be ornery, and as Gavin said, "...then you're stuck with the mistakes"   Very Happy

Although I was forewarned to "slow down at sundown", I didn't and consequently I only have my right- shoulder'd angel left, my left-shoulder'd angel is currently incapacitated due to a broken wrist ... unhappy with the pain of disobedience but happy that my right shoulder won the battle with the bull ... Mary, my given surname for Mother Nature, sure has some strange ways to help keep me on the "right" path.

LL
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:41 am

Larry Leonhardt wrote:
every female has a dark side, we must learn how to keep them sunny side up, the basic reason eyes evolved in order to see the "light" -

"There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call the Twilight Zone. "


what young man, standing in the midst of untraditional uniformity and being warned not to go farther, won`t   Question Rolling Eyes  what if Edison had been satisfied with the light side of a candle?

So Mike, in our name the blame games, it is not my cow's fault, she became your "responsibility" when she arrived in your pastures .

exactly; and when I sell them, they will sell in my name, not some  9/16Keeney/7/16Shoshone concoction...and on a positive note, contrary to other "flushes" I have seen over the years, these ornery looking progeny are peas in a pod to about the same degree as Pete/Repete...and that is a credit to your fixation of and on genes...

and as Gavin said, "...then you're stuck with the mistakes"    Very Happy 

I`m not done yet; there`s more learnin` to be had... past the twilight and into the night  Smile 

Although I was forewarned to "slow down at sundown", I didn't and consequently I only have my right- shoulder'd angel left, my left-shoulder'd angel is currently incapacitated due to a broken wrist ...

as I listened to this reluctantly told painful story, I could not help but have one underlying thought......ya see, the most non-traditional cattle breeder is the most traditional otherwise...his haircut, over cooks his burger, his farmer`s cap...but once, just one, I got him to eat a mussel shell ...and I had planned to one day take him golfing; now I gotta wait until this dang wrist heals  Evil or Very Mad  Evil or Very Mad
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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:20 am

alien? or monk?

Man often measures  "success" by temporary individual achievement ... often measured by our ability to accumulate power, things and money ASAP.   Under the topics of breeding philosophies and this topic of using "trulines" for outcrossing, this past months infiltrated traditional diatribe may have been entertaining and useful by exposing some of the BS in the bowels of traditional selection for invented money, so I was relieved when Mike finally pulled the plug on traditional self-serving ignorance.  Sarcasm provides few solutions and is different than constructive criticism ... but I suppose that was part of Will's "pre-assigned job"   Shocked   to stimulate Mike to remind KC participants of our PRIMARY purpose here by re-posting  - "Our basic objective here is to present ideas to stimulate the development of parent stock that can REGULARLY produce beef animals which at the lowest possible cost and expenditure of labor give the highest possible and longest lasting net returns. Not just for ourselves, but moreso for the commercial producers."

I would delete the last two words and replace them with moreso for the "ulltimate benefit of ALL OF HUMANITY".    I chose to take this long road to explain why the LAST priority to achieve this objective is finding ways to make more invented money.   From history, I wonder "when will we ever learn" that traditional selection methodology with it's ARTIFICIAL DOLLAR VALUES offers little hope for this basic long term objective -.obviously, this basic objective is a contrary choice for "self-serving traditionalists".   Shocked 

 

We are so obsessed with doing that we have no time and no imagination left for being. As a result, men are valued not for what they are but for what they do or what they have - for their usefulness.

Thomas Merton



just knock off a little more hair and about 30 years, and there you are  Smile and please don`t be suggesting privately that I need a guardian angel; the farest I ever got with an angel was a slap on the wrist  Smile
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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Sat Mar 22, 2014 8:08 am

I keep pulling pieces to show I have done more than skim  Smile 

LL said

- MARKETING STRATEGIES - FERTILITY

Hundreds of pages have been written about the mechanisms of breeding cattle in bits and pieces but very few seem to understand the T O T A L I T Y of this movement.  Any who do or did, most of them left, and after reading this post Mike and I may be the only ones among the few left standing in this lonesome corner, laughing and having so much fun, surrounded by a few onlookers who think we're crazy for not being in debt.  Very Happy  Very Happy







Was Jack Horner a real person?

Little Jack Horner sat in the corner

Eating his Christmas pie,
He put in his thumb and pulled out a plum
And said "What a good boy am I!"


Remarkably Little Jack Horner actually did exist and as opposed to other nursery rhymes he was a real person and what's more he really did 'Pull out a plum', even the pie was real, but whether he was a good boy, that, I will leave to you to decide.

During his reign King Henry VIII ordered Thomas Cromwell to lead his men and demolish all monasteries in England because the King had broken away from the Catholic Church. Cromwell was tasked not only to pull down all catholic establishments but to plunder their chattels, hand over all the gold, silver and land to Henry VIII. Monasteries were a rich source of wealth in terms of cash and goods.

Today, we know Glastonbury for the famous rock concerts and festivals but in Henry's day it was a Benedictine Monastery. the largest and wealthiest Abbey in his Kingdom.

Jack Horner Esquire was Steward to The Bishop of Glastonbury, Richard Whiting 1461 – 1539. The job of Steward was an executive position, very few men would be trusted to do this job. Jack Horner was privileged to run the household of the Bishop, administer the accounts of the Abbey and collect rents, taxes and fees from tenants, peasants and others connected within the manor of Glastonbury.

This vast estate had escaped King Henry VIII's army of demolition experts and pillagers but knowing that it was the very last religious property remaining in Somerset he had to accept that his days were numbered and he needed to act fast,it was only a matter of time before his entire livelihood would be harshly taken away.

He knew Henry VIII didn't mind a bribe or two so the Bishop took the decision to take full advantage of the shady side of King Henry. He made a plan and confided in one man that he could really trust, Jack Horner.

He tasked Horner with delivering a very special gift to the king, it was to be a very large top quality pie filled with nothing less than twelve title deeds relating to an assortment of English manorial estates owned that were owned by the Bishop.


Why use a pie to hide the documents?

Thieves and vagabonds were abundant and it was all too common for travellers to be very creative in hiding their valuable goods to thwart robbers. Whether a pie would really divert the attention of starving criminals, I doubt it!


Jack Horner was no fool and did not believe that King Henry would even dream of accepting twelve title deeds for small properties instead of the entire Abbey and all that land including the twelve properties. There was also a threat that King Henry could turn on the messenger in revenge for the shear audacity.

He had to think fast, he couldn't refuse do undertake the errand, nor could he argue with the Bishop, so he simply stole the title deeds of the manor of Mells. It was prime land and certainly considered to be the real 'plum' of those twelve manors that were secreted in the pie.

Henry did reject the pie just as Jack Horner predicted but for self preservation he had to protect himself. He chose to hand over The Bishop to Henry VIII and was arrested, charged and convicted of treason, the crime he was accused of committing was that he acted against the crown by remaining loyal to Rome.


What Happened to Jack Horner?

Little Jack Horner was appointed as one of the jury in the trial of The Bishop of Glastobury, he was to become one of the 'twelve good men and true' and he sat on the jury. Bishop Whiting was found guilty. He was sentenced to death. It was a quick execution by any means, he was hung, drawn and quartered on Glastonbury Tor.

Horner retained his deeds, he legally owned the property and indeed moved into the Manor of Mells it remained in the Horner family right up until the 20th century,

King Henry sent his men to destroy the Abbey.





Thanks for baking the T O T A L I T Y pie LL...most prefer pulling out a plum to eating humble pie  Very Happy
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Tom D
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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:47 pm

Is a deed like some sort of certificate? scratch 
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pukerimu



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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:08 pm

Deed of title = ownership papers.
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Tom D
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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:44 pm

So they used these paper certificates, or "deeds", to document ownership of the land? How the hell can you own land? It's been here forever. Does documentation, certification, or ownership make the land more valuable? What about genes? They've been around a long time. Do documents and certificates and ownership make them more valuable?

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MVCatt



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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Sat Mar 22, 2014 8:53 pm

Tom D wrote:
So they used these paper certificates, or "deeds", to document ownership of the land?  How the hell can you own land?  It's been here forever.  Does documentation, certification, or ownership make the land more valuable?  What about genes?  They've been around a long time.  Do documents and certificates and ownership make them more valuable?


Oh here we go again more Kool Aid talk...Is it really you're job to question such things?  Mad
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Grassfarmer



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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:18 pm

Tom D wrote:
 What about genes?  They've been around a long time.  Do documents and certificates and ownership make them more valuable?

They do if your name is Monsanto.
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Larry Leonhardt



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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:22 am

Tom D wrote:
So they used these paper certificates, or "deeds", to document ownership of the land?  How the hell can you own land?  It's been here forever.  Does documentation, certification, or ownership make the land more valuable?  What about genes?  They've been around a long time.  Do documents and certificates and ownership make them more valuable?





Tom, ........If I look like that Latin lover, doesn`t this kinda look like Mike   Very Happy I had to black out his creed for happiness Smile 
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EddieM



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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:59 am

Larry,

Feel free to NOT find a picture that might look like me and posting it here! Thank you in advanced.

You chided Mike for not letting his cow pick her own bull. That would be a twist on bull sales to take a cow along that has good judgment and fine taste to pick the bull for you or at least let them peruse the catalog and lick their favorites before you head out to buy the "best yet" and "none better".

I know that the 3 bears wanted things "just right" but if your bull pool selection is fairly highly homogenous or inbred or whatever term you want to use for "alike", how do you select the diversity of bulls that you include in a group to be turned out with a group of cows so that the cows have a chance to pick a difference? Or are you just using "close to the gate" or "first ones on the trailer"?

Thanks.
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RobertMac



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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:15 pm

"Our basic objective here is to present ideas to stimulate the development of parent stock that can REGULARLY produce beef animals which at the lowest possible cost and expenditure of labor give the highest possible and longest lasting net returns. Not just for ourselves, but moreso for the commercial producers."


at the lowest possible cost and expenditure of labor

How is this defined and when do we know the cattle have reached this standard to be able to make such a claim?
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:45 am

EddieM wrote:
Larry,

Feel free to NOT find a picture that might look like me and posting it here!  Thank you in advanced.

You chided Mike for not letting his cow pick her own bull.  That would be a twist on bull sales to take a cow along that has good judgment and fine taste to pick the bull for you or at least let them peruse the catalog and lick their favorites before you head out to buy the "best yet" and "none better".  

I know that the 3 bears wanted things "just right" but if your bull pool selection is fairly highly homogenous or inbred or whatever term you want to use for "alike", how do you select the diversity of bulls that you include in a group to be turned out with a group of cows so that the cows have a chance to pick a difference?  Or are you just using "close to the gate" or "first ones on the trailer"?

Thanks.

Eddie,
just a  harbinger of Larry`s next post  Smile which I will get up tomorrow...
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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:53 am

RobertMac wrote:
"Our basic objective here is to present ideas to stimulate the development of parent stock that can REGULARLY produce beef animals which at the lowest possible cost and expenditure of labor give the highest possible and longest lasting net returns. Not just for ourselves, but moreso for the commercial producers."


at the lowest possible cost and expenditure of labor

How is this defined and when do we know the cattle have reached this standard to be able to make such a claim?

let me take a swing at this...when lowering cost or labor would negatively effect the positive side ? that may be strike one; but I`ll go down swinging Smile ...good discussion point Robert, because it likely has different answers for different breeding goals and places? throwing in "longest lasting returns" is a fly in the ointment as well...
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rross



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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:17 pm

RobertMac wrote:
"Our basic objective here is to present ideas to stimulate the development of parent stock that can REGULARLY produce beef animals which at the lowest possible cost and expenditure of labor give the highest possible and longest lasting net returns. Not just for ourselves, but moreso for the commercial producers."


at the lowest possible cost and expenditure of labor


I consider the lowest to be an EXTREME ...........


How is this defined and when do we know the cattle have reached this standard to be able to make such a claim?


It is defined by my ranch books...............
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Larry Leonhardt



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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:08 pm

Eddie M,

Since I have never met you, this has gotta be a very close relative



I quit using yearling bulls, my track record of picking out bulls looking at bodies instead of eyes has proven to be disastrous ...I never could tell whether a man was good looking or not, I always had to ask some girl to tell me who was or wasn't.  If I have to pick the bulls myself, I just avoid the fat sleepy or wild eyed ones, and from those left that aren't crippled up from fighting and can still jump on the trailer get the cows ... from then on its up to "Mary".  Very Happy

The caption blacked out in "Mikes" portrait read "THE LESS YOU GIVE A S- - -, THE HAPPIER YOU'LL BE".   Indifference, finding our niche in life, what do you wanna be when you grow up, a peace maker or a war monger, an outlier or a commoner, a giver or a taker ... most of us spend our lives either breaking or fixing things.

Attitude changers ... actually Tom, that picture was taken of "Mike" a few years ago ...  "AFTER" he drank the first few bottles of my FREE "Excelsior".   I didn't post his "before" picture back when he was more argumentative,  I thought it would be better to leave it up to anyone's imagination.    Most of you know Mike and I have been "best lifetime friends" despite normal squabbles or disagreements and he is now the largest consumer of my "Excelsior", sometimes running out,  reverting back to his old addicted afflictions so I quickly UPS him a new batch  

Mike's wife Linda and I smoke peace pipes and drink coffee together while Mike's wheeling and dealing on the phone or playing with his laptop.   I've gotta figure out a way to encapsule my "excelsior" ingredients in a slower, timed release, longer lasting tablet.  Following Grassfarmer's recommendation, I contacted Monsanto but their tech fees were very high - which of course would prohibit me from offering it free ... Monsanto tends to capture and control God-given free elements that are actually supposed to be entrusted in "Mary's" hands ... whatever we do, ultimately She always prevails.  Shocked  

Chat rooms are often filled with "goody two shoes".  Very Happy   Mike talked about paper deeds hidden in Jack Horner plum pies to keep thieves from stealing them.   Pukerimu told Tom deeds designate ownership, but I think paper deeds are just temporary custodial peace treaties between reigning Kings and "peons" subject to ongoing uncontrolled taxation enforced by his henchmen ... break the rules of shoes 'n ships 'n cabbages 'n Kings and it's fines, confiscation and/or imprisonment.  Smile  

Tom, Tom the pauper's son spends an awful lot of time thinking and talking to his deceased great grandfather Ben.  The phenotypic likeness is remarkable and so is his caring brain advanced beyond his age.



Its been said that "patience is a virtue".   For whatever secondhand gossip is worth, Tom told me his grandfather told him that the King's henchmen issued a proclamation that all "breeding" cattle needed to be registered and certified with a designated  King approved "Association".  What few realize is that the directors of these "Associations" are graduates of King Universities with minors in "How to Make the Simple Complicated", "How to Increase Values with Rarity" and majors in "Hypnotism Made Easy".    Of course everyone knows that someone, somewhere, will find a loophole to the establishment's rules.

So Tom asked Pukerimu if "paper certificates" made cattle more valuable?   But Tom is a man of too few words ... as of this writing, no reply from Megan.   Down under while Megan and Gavin continue their losing battle against their "heirarchy", several years ago I found a loophole to elude all the King's horses and all the King's men and why they'll never be able to capture my alien world again.  Instead of a forceful revolution, I prefer a quiet revelation.   But first I need to go back to where I left off with my "Lent Season" post when I said - I can't hardly wait to fill in all the blank pages with picture stories revealing the STARK NAKED DIFFERENCES between breeding "money" cattle and cattle that "live always" from the same gene pools.   jocolor

The setting for my new book takes place in an area where human kings can't capture anything, which MK described as  "There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call the Twilight Zone. "

Taking up residency in the Twilight Zone, when the book is finished, I expect Briann's imagination as the nutty professor to put the chapters all together in methodical order,  along with his "wall hanger's", to make me as famous as Dr. Zeus and Harry Potter - the rough manuscript of this  book is in the cloak and dagger mystery section of my alien library.

Of course we'll have to change the names of all the cast of characters to protect the innocent.   For instance, we've already seen who Mike and I currently look like, EddieM will need to be portrayed as a man with a sheep's head named Ebenezer with knight-vision; Tom as part turkey wearing Ben's glasses flying kites who refuses to come in outta the rain;  Craig as a mutilated hockey player who plays with snow blowers and never sleeps; Grassfarmer as a Sco......I better quit here before I get in trouble but somewhere there's gotta be a wizard and a witch.  Very Happy


Of course, the book cover will be "Mary" (alias Mother Nature)



The Source of Eternal Life -THE CHURCH OF MOTHER NATURE

And the back cover will feature the isolated Penguin's functional phenotypic UNIFORMITY, a product of  Mary's handiwork without the need for certified papers, pedigrees or deeds to Antarctica.



The preface contains the following information that I'll bet few know -

- Isolated Populations and Eternal Life -
Did you ever wonder why there are no dead penguins on the ice in Antarctica?  Where do they go?  Wonder no more ! ! !

It is a known fact that the penguin is a very ritualistic bird which lives an extremely ORDERLY and complex life.   The penguin is very committed to its family and will mate for life, as well as maintain a form of compassionate contact with its offspring throughout its life.

If a penguin is found dead on the ice surface, other members of the family and social circle have been known to dig holes in the nearby snow, using their vestigial wings and beaks, until the hole is deep enough for the dead bird to be rolled into, and buried.   The male penguins then gather in a circle around the fresh grave and sing:

"Freeze a jolly good fellow", "Freeze a jolly good fellow", which nobody can deny......."  Sounds a wee bit of some Irish linkage somewhere  Very Happy

CHAPTER ONE

There are so many differences between breeding "money" cattle and cattle who will "live always", I don't know where to start.    Mike once asked - will truline breeders ever put the traditional registered breeders out of business -Not hardly, that would be like thinking open AI was going to produce too many good bulls lowering their "money" value.

Of UTMOST importance, I have many very close friends who breed and will continue to breed registered cattle, it is their exclusive choice.   None of us has a right to own the genera of cattle, we are the caretakers whilst they are under our own care.    The difference is I finally learned to keep my "papers" hidden inside a "humble" pie where there are no plums ... this helped prevent thievery and fraudulent marketing schemes that rely on capitalizing on "name dropping"... a traditional acceptable habit that the King's henchmen have been practicing for over 200 years.   However, now in the twilight zone I no longer need to worry about thievery.  Traditionalists just bungle up my cattle anyway when they don't allow Mary to make their  selections for them ... anyway, their age old habits just increase their own MDI index, Tom said he has actually seen that happen through Ben's glasses.  Very Happy

I have learned how to keep the King's henchmen, tax assessors 'n salesmen away,  not with barricades, locks or electric fences, but with an outside appearance of utter disarray and confusion, with debris, old machinery scattered wherever it broke down, worn out parts scattered everywhere, a shop knee high full of pigeon crap with the right size wrench always somewhere else and my office cave is so cluttered with paraphernalia, I'm the only one that knows where anything of value actually is.  I've already warned my kids that I'm going to leave the most of my stuff to the ones I like the least and to the ones I like the most ... will  get nothing.  Shocked

Actually underneath my outside mirage of chaos, I have things as orderly as the universe.   For example, over the years while walking through my pastures to see what "Mary" is giving me, guiding my SELECTION to improve maternal functionality, She told me I didn't need to worry about the degree of IBC purity, or EPD, or pedigree, or registered monetary value return to me, or environmental adaptability, or how big or little the cows would be ... Mary told me any of the industry's measured numbers would follow HER primary selection to improve the stability, their renewability, and all that was summed up in HER two words - SYMMETRIC EFFICIENCY.    Now all this poetic silliness may be interpreted to be, many different things for many different people who have priority values different than me ... and I just spent another hour of Mary's 40+ years of  guidance to prepare this paragraph of rythmic liturgy especially formulated for those who may prefer more "PENQUINISH"  bulls, cows and calves. Very Happy

WHAT A RELIEF IT IS TO HAVE ORDINARY EXPECTATIONS ! ! ! .... THE PRIMARY STARK NAKED DIFFERENCE BETWEEN "MONEY" CATTLE AND CATTLE THAT WILL "LIVE ALWAYS"  :  cheers

To explain how I fell in love with Mary's handiwork,  I dug thru the archives of KC to bring forward a picture of a previous example.    Mary's ideal for structural characters denoting maternal efficiency, wherever they might adapt environmentally, are portrayed below by a picture of an "SX family #63", AAA ranked in the top 1% for $ENergy....and as you can plainly see, she is virtually problem free, and along side her is the renewability, for practical common unattentive lazy people like me, who just let them be, whatever "Mary" provided for me, not exactly literally free, but without any anxiety, or pedigree IBC.   Since Mary handed me with the responsibility of  #63-36 (the 336th one in the "63" maternal tree ), and  her hfr calf # 63-53 (the 653rd one),  #63-36 is nearly a natural "clone" to Frank's dam #63-43 (the 143rd one) ... so who the hell is "Frank"  Very Happy  Very Happy



Well "Frank" was a bull Mary provided for me in 2001, and another "angel" just recently provided me with a free son out of cow #63-74 (the 174th one in my isolated penquinish world).  We all owe our lives to Mary,  who gave me not super cows, but happy cows with endurance ... "profitable performance" is the heifer calf you  can see, born 4/20/09, calving 4/02/11, 4/06/12 & 3/13/13 regularly.   This particular cow's pedigree is offered for free,  to improve the confidence in her prepotency ... her true IBC is expressed by her progeny, which is all that matters to me, regardless of her pedigree, yet she was selected by Mary from reduced variability, in order to improve her functional purity......about 35 years of blood, sweat and failures over the years = Mary's survivors  Very Happy  

I've plagiarized the format of ancestry from Gavin's style, but please know I have a mental picture of every one of these animals stored in head, many are now dead, and yet they live on in Mary's world ....  taken from my private papers back when they were hidden inside my humble pie pudding without any plums.  Shocked

...................................................... ..................................................Shoshone SX 99-1702 (1987)
............................................................................Shoshone SX 121-1012 (1990)
........................................................................................................ Shoshone SX 47-1012 (1982)
..................................................... Shoshone SX 144-3116 (1993)
........................................................................................................ Shoshone SX 73-7103 (1983)
............................................................................Shoshone SX 73-3116 (1986)
........................................................................................................ Shoshone SX 64-3111 (1984)
....................................Shoshone SX 164-6159 (1996)
.........................................................................................................Shoshone SX 64-1702 (1982)
............................................................................Shoshone SX 99-1702 (1987)
........................................................................................................ Shoshone SX 23-1701 (1978)
.......................................................Shoshone SX 99-6159 (1991)
....................................................................................................... Shoshone SX 88-6310 (1985)
............................................................................Shoshone SX 88-6144 (1989)
........................................................................................................ Shoshone SX 75-6123 (1986)
..........Shoshone SX 164-6336 (2002)
....................................................................................................... Shoshone SX 99-1702 (1987)
............................................................................Shoshone SX 121-1012 (1990)
........................................................................................................ Shoshone SX 47-1012 (1982)
..................................................... Shoshone SX 144-3116 (1993)
........................................................................................................ Shoshone SX 73-7103 (1983)
............................................................................Shoshone SX 73-3116 (1986)
........................................................................................................ Shoshone SX 64-3111 (1984)
.....................................Shoshone SX 144-6373 (1996)
........................................................................................................ Shoshone SX 36-2702 (1978)
............................................................................Shoshone SX 64-1702 (1982)
....................................................................................................... Shoshone SX 36-1702 (1980)
.........................................................Shoshone SX 64-6357 (1988)
........................................................................................................ Shoshone SX 67-2712 (1983)
............................................................................Shoshone SX 67-6333 (1985)
........................................................................................................ Shoshone SX 62-6320 (1983)

The cheapest and best way to flush a cow is to breed her to a son to determine her true "genetic worthiness", not necessarily her production.  Shocked    The recent "angel" said ccff]"Behold, I bring you tidings of great joy, the Frank 6343 x 6374 bulls are good !!!! you will be proud of them,  6374 was a special cow!!!! - I have a great  granddaughter of 6357 that is a spitting image of her...same udder, same feet, same maternal wedge, same head, same white spot on her udder...she is now my FAVORITE cow".   Aaaaahhhh, the best things in life are free !   You can find the #63-57 cow in the above pedigree, in many of the cattle under my watch and so I went back into the archives of KC to retrieve her picture as a two-yr old born in 1988, pictured below the Herefords -




and the picture below is the inbred weasely #64 bull that sired #6357 (the 57th one) Bonsma type cow - the "angel's" favorite with the same white spot on her udder to show the newborn colorblind calves where the milk flows  Very Happy



In my house of refuge I tend to make trivial matters important, someone said if we take care of the pennies, the dollars will take care of themselves ...  and practicing repetition is never boring for those of us in the latter stages of dementia.   ALL CATTLE ARE "CROSSES" OF THE MALE AND FEMALE, producing the result of their individual complementarity.....It is not rocket science, it is better understanding of  those blurred "mechanical" discoveries between nature and nurture only recently described by Mr. Anderson's mechanisms on  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9a-ru2ES6Y ... how DNA "matched genotypes" can unexpectedly turn grey "fixed mice" into big obese "yellow" ones strictly from nurture with the capability of "passing it on", surely something "triggered" that otherwise black and white event.   Of course Mary is the founder of these events.

The aim of my game here is not to gain fame, but to demonstrate how I've maintained my own private pedigrees....and just as I've survived, surely anyone can by following Tom Lasater's philosophy.... "breeding cattle is a simple endeavor, the only difficulty is in keeping it simple," ....I would add "affordable and enjoyable"..... I love watching Mary making the complicated awesomely simple.   Very Happy Very Happy

CHAPTER TW0

LL in the twilight zone    
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MKeeney
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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:40 am

...................................................... ..................................................Shoshone SX 99-1702 (1987)
............................................................................Shoshone SX 121-1012 (1990)
........................................................................................................ Shoshone SX 47-1012 (1982)
..................................................... Shoshone SX 144-3116 (1993)
........................................................................................................ Shoshone SX 73-7103 (1983)
............................................................................Shoshone SX 73-3116 (1986)
........................................................................................................ Shoshone SX 64-3111 (1984)
....................................Shoshone SX 164-6159 (1996)
.........................................................................................................Shoshone SX 64-1702 (1982)
............................................................................Shoshone SX 99-1702 (1987)
........................................................................................................ Shoshone SX 23-1701 (1978)
.......................................................Shoshone SX 99-6159 (1991)
....................................................................................................... Shoshone SX 88-6310 (1985)
............................................................................Shoshone SX 88-6144 (1989)
........................................................................................................ Shoshone SX 75-6123 (1986)
..........Shoshone SX 164-6336 (2002)
....................................................................................................... Shoshone SX 99-1702 (1987)
............................................................................Shoshone SX 121-1012 (1990)
........................................................................................................ Shoshone SX 47-1012 (1982)
..................................................... Shoshone SX 144-3116 (1993)
........................................................................................................ Shoshone SX 73-7103 (1983)
............................................................................Shoshone SX 73-3116 (1986)
........................................................................................................ Shoshone SX 64-3111 (1984)
.....................................Shoshone SX 144-6373 (1996)
........................................................................................................ Shoshone SX 36-2702 (1978)
............................................................................Shoshone SX 64-1702 (1982)
....................................................................................................... Shoshone SX 36-1702 (1980)
.........................................................Shoshone SX 64-6357 (1988)
........................................................................................................ Shoshone SX 67-2712 (1983)
............................................................................Shoshone SX 67-6333 (1985)
........................................................................................................ Shoshone SX 62-6320 (1983)

my ignorance and imagination let`s me go deeper than most breeders into the ancestral pool to evaluate the animal/s responsible for any goodness in the current generation...obviously, the cow of dominance here is Shoshone SX 47-1012 (1982}...would you have any semen on her sire Shoshone SX 47 ?
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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:43 am

Sorry to say, Larry, that I went to bed last night and did not dream of a white Christmas. But thank you for thinking that I might look pretty dapper. Opps, sorry, I've got to go; Bob Hope is calling.
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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:48 am

MKeeney wrote:
...................................................... ..................................................Shoshone SX 99-1702 (1987)
............................................................................Shoshone SX 121-1012 (1990)
........................................................................................................ Shoshone SX 47-1012 (1982)
..................................................... Shoshone SX 144-3116 (1993)
........................................................................................................ Shoshone SX 73-7103 (1983)
............................................................................Shoshone SX 73-3116 (1986)
........................................................................................................ Shoshone SX 64-3111 (1984)
....................................Shoshone SX 164-6159 (1996)
.........................................................................................................Shoshone SX 64-1702 (1982)
............................................................................Shoshone SX 99-1702 (1987)
........................................................................................................ Shoshone SX 23-1701 (1978)
.......................................................Shoshone SX 99-6159 (1991)
....................................................................................................... Shoshone SX 88-6310 (1985)
............................................................................Shoshone SX 88-6144 (1989)
........................................................................................................ Shoshone SX 75-6123 (1986)
..........Shoshone SX 164-6336 (2002)
....................................................................................................... Shoshone SX 99-1702 (1987)
............................................................................Shoshone SX 121-1012 (1990)
........................................................................................................ Shoshone SX 47-1012 (1982)
..................................................... Shoshone SX 144-3116 (1993)
........................................................................................................ Shoshone SX 73-7103 (1983)
............................................................................Shoshone SX 73-3116 (1986)
........................................................................................................ Shoshone SX 64-3111 (1984)
.....................................Shoshone SX 144-6373 (1996)
........................................................................................................ Shoshone SX 36-2702 (1978)
............................................................................Shoshone SX 64-1702 (1982)
....................................................................................................... Shoshone SX 36-1702 (1980)
.........................................................Shoshone SX 64-6357 (1988)
........................................................................................................ Shoshone SX 67-2712 (1983)
............................................................................Shoshone SX 67-6333 (1985)
........................................................................................................ Shoshone SX 62-6320 (1983)

my ignorance and imagination let`s me go deeper than most breeders into the ancestral pool to evaluate the animal/s responsible for any goodness in the current generation...obviously, the cow of dominance here is Shoshone SX 47-1012 (1982}...would you have any semen on her sire Shoshone SX 47 ?

hold on a minute; I owned that 1012 cow...how come I never got the same results?  Smile 
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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:04 pm

LL said

Traditionalists just bungle up my cattle anyway when they don't allow Mary to make their selections for them ... anyway, their age old habits just increase their own MDI index, Tom said he has actually seen that happen through Ben's glasses.  Very Happy 


Traditionalists fix their growth, fix their feet, fix their size, fix their flesh, fix their milk... but when traditionalists sell their fixed version...they call them Shoshone  Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes 
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pukerimu



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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:54 am

Gidday - been up the Coast (the East Coast that is) on an Angus Herd tour - annual event - our turn to host other breeders next year. The East Coast is traditionally the home of traditional NZ hill country cattle - saw evidence of folk trying to tweak them with "performance" cattle though - time will tell how that goes in the long run. We certainly did not feel the love for those ones.

Interesting times ahead - much lively discussion (even if the AGM was muted and stage managed!) - universal dis-satisfaction amongst many "registered breeders" with how the cattle displaying the best characteristics are the ones penalised by the numbers while the cattle with obvious disadvantages for clambering over hills, whilst maintaining body condition and growing a calf, on barely maintenance pasture, are apparently lauded by the system and rewarded with ridiculously above average carcase data.

Apparently nothing can be done to change the disadvantages faced by breeders who select on type, family lines and have few links "to really get the data" without a re-write of the BLUP. Maybe someone has to man up and "just do it".

There will have to be some changes though - Breedplan has been around for 20 years or more and now a large project (2014) has been kicked off with Govt funding to "find the best genetics for NZ hill country" - hello - if that is not a fairly clear indication that the "best" cattle being bred by Breedplan to sell into the commercial cattleman's herd seem to meet their satisfaction requirements, as well as they do the experienced, established, registered breeder, then it would be hard to know what else would ...................... in NZ .............. a country which martyrs it's farmers on the stake of "no Govt subsidies here mate" stance!

The sheer power of the "unhappy" breeding fraternity - a very large chunk of the registered, active dam fee paying, herd owners, means there is likely to be a driving force for change. As stated interesting times ahead.

And yes - at the present time registered (papered) cattle (well angus anyway - other breeds are languishing somewhat) are more valuable than not - there are not many unregistered breeders and most of those sell service bulls into the dairy industry. Very few commercial cattlemen indulge in A/I or want to get that involved in the breeding - many like our clients leave all that to us and have faith that we are working hard to maintain what we already have, improving as we go and pay us for the privilege of providing them with their genetics. Some operations buy 50 bulls a year and if the average size of a registered Angus herd in NZ is 200 cows I will leave it up to your imagination as to what the average size of a commercial herd on a large station might be .......................
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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:16 pm

at least when they are  they are selling, you can be guaranteed there will be nice things said  Smile 

JAD PHYLIX W6157
F Bd: 03/07/2009 reg. no: +16389458 tattoo: W6157
SHOSHONE FELIX 6310 J O D
sHosHone eric 1701
sHosHone erica J f c 17 a
sHosHone Beauigan Jgeca 27
sHosHone frances mHe63-93 sHosHone frances He63
laVeron of Wye
SHOSHONE PRUDENCE 6157
sHosHone 99-2028
sHosHone eileen 2028
sHosHone ecHo 1702
sHosHone prudence 6146 sHosHone prudence me61-62
sHosHone ecHo 1702
We had the privilege of renting this straight Shoshone bull from
Darwin Peckham. Phylix’s dam is one of the most picture perfect
cows a guy can find. The udder quality, fertility, and longevity of
the Shoshone herd is a rarity and unprecedented
.

I guess  Dunkum and Dockweiler breeding isn`t worth mentioning from a marketing standpoint...and before the newly created non-traditional awareness, you notice that Joe Dunkum was anxious to keep the Shoshone name in tact; putting JOD last as a suffix...give JAD credit for standing on his own  two feet behind his own cattle...
...
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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:58 pm

in the world of making the best better, and if you are not improving you are going backwards.....makes me wonder why they felt the need to use JAD PHYLIX. could it be for the udder quality, fertility, and longevity. usually can figure out a breeding program's weakness by the new bulls they bring in.

Larkota typing on a new laptop. just purchased 20 heifers from Shoshone and only papers needed were health and brand.
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pukerimu



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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:19 pm

larkota wrote:
in the world of making the best better, and if you are not improving you are going backwards......

easy to measure "improvement" as numbers and graphs - of course any 5 year old knows that 10 is better than 3 - the question is ................ is it actual improvement or actually just maths?

The race for maths has indeed made "udder quality" and other key (usually old and not needing much improvement) traits a rarity
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PostSubject: Re: When you use a true line for outcrossing   Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:26 pm

larkota wrote:
in the world of making the best better, and if you are not improving you are going backwards.....makes me wonder why they felt the need to use JAD PHYLIX.  could it be for the udder quality, fertility, and longevity.  usually can figure out a breeding program's weakness by the new bulls they bring in.

Larkota typing on a new laptop.  just purchased 20 heifers from Shoshone and only papers needed were health and brand.

the biggest problem with a marketer selling their cattle based on someone else`s breeding program is the exaggerations are far beyond what the breeder would ever even contemplate saying...

The udder quality, fertility, and longevity of
the Shoshone herd is a rarity and unprecedented



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